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Official Xbox 360 vs. The World


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#16 neoadorable

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 13:19

heh heh funny quote neo, that actually made laugh out loud. i think you should make it your goal, that before this decade is out, to reach a gamerscore of 100K and return from it safely, ich bin ein Xboxer! yeah i don't mean to make fun of JF, but in light of the total disrespect shown him by Black Ops i figure i can get away with it :rolleyes:

and i mostly agree with treemonster, Steam is almost as complete as Xbox Live - almost, but not just there yet. don't forget a good noticable percentage of games still refuse to work for various PC reasons (as i was recently reminded with KOTOR), despite all of Gabe's efforts to make it a seamless storefront. this happens on PC about a million or two times for every instance of it on the 360 or PS3. console games just work. also, Steam is still infinitely more convoluted than XBL. even finding your Steam ID is a pain in the butt, when it should be the simplest thing in the world. so the PC isn't there yet, but i love it. there's no touching PC gaming for brute performance and that very unique feel. however, the 360 remains my primary entertainment platform.

also treemonster, it sounds like you got a whole setup planned and it's exciting that you're psyched about getting a 360. what took you so long? you have a lot of catching up to do. and BTW i do respect you and enjoy reading your posts, but it's THE, THE, not TEH! :laugh:


#17 treemonster

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    lol wut?

  • Joined: 03-January 05

Posted 03 January 2011 - 15:01

also treemonster, it sounds like you got a whole setup planned and it's exciting that you're psyched about getting a 360. what took you so long? you have a lot of catching up to do. and BTW i do respect you and enjoy reading your posts, but it's THE, THE, not TEH! :laugh:

thanks for the props. and yeah my typing sucks. :p welcome to the internet? :laugh:

anyways, one thing i discovered about steam looking at my groups, is group chat for when you just don't feel like talking in voice chat. i have a few friends that chat during the day on a forum then get into voice chat at night. part of it is work, part of it is just not feeling voice chatty but feeling type chatty during certain hours. one thing that the pc has over xbox though, unless i'm mistaken, is cross game voice chat. i don't need to be playing the same game or server as my friends to chat.

what took me so long? idk, my bro and i shared an xbox for a couple years a few years ago. we had gta4, gundam dynsaty warriors 2, rockband, halo 3 and so on. i was the first to try setting it up as a media player streaming from my pc and it was such a PITA. got it working the second attempt and the quality was just awful. i'm hoping this has changed since then. halo3 was about on par with crysis for keeping me playing, which means i didn't get too far in the sp campaign, and fps on consoles i'd rather do splitscreen local only while drinking with friends, so i can own them without a bunch of kids killing me. gta4 mp was fun in small doses, i mean playing a game of manhunt in freeroam with a load out of guns and rpging a car load of other players was pretty cool, but after the first week most people just did deathmatch at the airport, and i got bored of pure dm in fps games in hl1 in 1998. oh and most of the people talking in voice sounded like 8 year old girls.

otherwise there just hasn't been a lot of games on the platform that appealed to me. now there's at least 2, rdr and fable3. i'd rather play them on pc, but i'm not holding my breath. i'm reading xbox official magazine for some other purchase ideas but so far... it reads like too much of an ad and is otherwise weird(kinda typical for game mags) only half way through though. biggest thing that stands out about it is how many references they make to pc only games. i guess my first clue was reading the note from the editor and she said "playing kinect makes you look cool" no, no it doesn't.

i'm really backlogged on games as it is right now though. i'm like 1/3 of the way through me2 at most, then i started playing wow again, now i have borderlands goty, and kotor added to steam, and rdr queued up for when i get my xbox. i haven't even had time to set up the media stand for the tv/xbox.

back to steam vs xbl, i'll probably have more comments when i get my xbox and fire it up for myself. it's been years since i last used it and it was far away from what steam was back then. but being able to type chat/information/links and quickly join different games my friends are playing and planning community group events is a big advantage for steam imho. the devs inability to patch their games to work with modern hardware despite offering them on steam(i'm looking at you KOTOR) is definitely a drawback. there are older games that don't need much work to get running on a pc 12 years newer than the game(though multiplayer for these games can be another story). but on the offside, xbox wouldn't even have these games, unless original xbox games are available for sale and download from xbl now.

#18 neoadorable

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 15:19

the 360 is primarily a games machine, and a great one at that. focusing too much on its media center capabilities will invariably cause disappointment. a modern PC is much better for that. typing is one thing indeed PC has over the 360, for sure, even with the "keyboard" attachment it's still not that great on the console. but i find the controller much better than keyboard and mouse, i'm replaying RE5 on the PC and at times it's downright unplayable with a keyboard and mouse, whereas on the 360 it was such a joy. anyway, i also think your rather stereotypical portrayal of XBL is a little off...it's not only screeching kids, and it's not like with the PC you only get college age and above. plus the 360 is more of a controlled environment so there's less cheating overall.

some of the older Xbox games are on Games on Demand, but not a whole lot of them, of course you're right, the PC catalog is more impressive than all the current gen consoles combines in terms of number of games, innovation, variety what have you. but with the consoles you're buying into the stability and the focused experience, plus the smoother integration, that's what they're good for. with the PC, well keep in mind the average person in the world doesn't want to worry about 12V rails, driver sweeper and case airflow. that's why the current consoles are so successful, they're in the same ballpark as the PC in terms of broad performance so the games look OK if not good, but they're simple to operate and work with.

#19 treemonster

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    lol wut?

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 18:32

as far as which controller is best, it all depends on the game really. even though a game like gta 4 has shooting, i'd rather play it on xbox for driving, i'm not into buying expensive driving only controllers so the console controller is best for me for racing games, even if the pc has better racing sims. where as pure fps games i can't stand playing with a controller, it just doesn't feel right. rpg's are hit or miss, some are better with a controller, others with a kb/mouse, some are fairly equal.

as for hte kids on xbl mp, i didn't play much but that's how it was when i did play online. there was always some 8 year old spamming voice chat asking to party with someone or w/e. it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. they weren't raging or anything. and it's not like back in my cs days there wasn't the occasional 8 year old sounding kid in voice chat either. keep in mind i play wow so i can put up with a lot when it comes to so called immaturity, then again, my brand of so called immaturity is really for adults only.

otherwwise in games that were more traditionally in the realm of the pc platform just a few years ago, i tend to feel more constrained and boxed in playing them. if it's not end user mods lacking, it's server side and server admin mods that are lacking. that being said pc games have this less and less as devs lean more towards unified releases across platforms. still even with closed games, it has never stopped the mod community from modding those games if they really want to on pc.

i think the technical know how needed for pc gaming is often overstated, and what's involved with consoles often understated. i've known people that can't properly hook up elements of their home theatre system that can use a windows pc reasonably well for internet and facebook and it's games. and totally tech retarded people seem to love smartphones, where as i personally can't figure them out(not that i've spent much time with them). it's quite possible to game reasonably well on higher IQ settings and resolutions on a budget prebuilt pc that will cost less than buying any 2 out of 3 consoles with about as much tech literacy needed with current OSes and systems like steam.

but for many, nothing is really easier than just popping in a disc to play a game, even if in technical terms installing it once to your hdd and starting it up without ever leaving your chair is far faster and more convenient. and tbh i'm a bit biased here, because quite frankly i hate changing discs on my pc too, so looking at the console hdd sizes i am annoyed that i payed for a$100 premium for 250gb hdd instead of 4gb when i can buy a 1-2tb hdd that's likely faster than what the xbox has for less than $100 including shipping and taxes.

if the media capabilities of the xbox haven't been improved i will be annoyed considering how these features are so prominently advertised these days as plus points of xblg and the console itself. they talk more about netflix, but i don't think i should be wrong in extending my hope that streaming from my desktop pc will be improved as well, vs my previous experience(which was more of a hey the xbox is supposed to do this and my friend has it set up this way, let's try it out!)

#20 neoadorable

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 12:57

hear what you're saying, there's been a lot of convergence in the last five years, PCs are more like consoles and consoles are more like PCs. but i don't agree that a pre-built PC is as simple to work as a 360...no way man. just look at neowin, even here you get people who can't run GTAIV on their PC, and that's a really recent game. that just doesn't happen on the 360. it's more than just popping in the disc, it's the whole experience. of course you're right that stuff on the consoles is overpriced - yeah 250GB ain't much for what you're paying, for sure. but you're paying for ease of use and guaranteed compatibility, both are never a given with the PC. even with the best assembled pre-built PC users get problems the next time a driver comes out, or MS decides to patch the OS massively, or whatever. doesn't happen on consoles. the 360, in our case.

anyway, this isn't really about PC vs 360, you're making the right move by getting the console, i already asked you what took you so long. i think you should also get used to playing FPS's with the controller...i like it a lot more than keyboard and mouse now. and i reiterate, the 360 is a great games machine but not a great media center, leave that to your PC. even something simple like playing VCD's (i know, i know, what can i say, i'm a collector) is impossible on the 360 despite what MS initially said. that's just an example. PC's way better for media.

#21 DigitalE

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 21:52

  • Best controller
  • Best selection of games (retail and XBLA)
  • Most multi-platform games seem to perform better on the 360
  • Xbox Live
  • Windows Media Center


#22 treemonster

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    lol wut?

  • Joined: 03-January 05

Posted 06 January 2011 - 17:32

hear what you're saying, there's been a lot of convergence in the last five years, PCs are more like consoles and consoles are more like PCs. but i don't agree that a pre-built PC is as simple to work as a 360...no way man. just look at neowin, even here you get people who can't run GTAIV on their PC, and that's a really recent game. that just doesn't happen on the 360. it's more than just popping in the disc, it's the whole experience. of course you're right that stuff on the consoles is overpriced - yeah 250GB ain't much for what you're paying, for sure. but you're paying for ease of use and guaranteed compatibility, both are never a given with the PC. even with the best assembled pre-built PC users get problems the next time a driver comes out, or MS decides to patch the OS massively, or whatever. doesn't happen on consoles. the 360, in our case.

anyway, this isn't really about PC vs 360, you're making the right move by getting the console, i already asked you what took you so long. i think you should also get used to playing FPS's with the controller...i like it a lot more than keyboard and mouse now. and i reiterate, the 360 is a great games machine but not a great media center, leave that to your PC. even something simple like playing VCD's (i know, i know, what can i say, i'm a collector) is impossible on the 360 despite what MS initially said. that's just an example. PC's way better for media.

meh games like gta4, kotor, etc are the exception for pc. in gta4's case it's MS pushing GFWL without supporting or QAing it properly when they should know better. they do have the experience and track record in pc games afterall. most pc games take very little effort to get working


i've heard of plenty of minor issues similar in scope to a new driver release being buggy or w/e on consoles during this generation. nevermind the rrod thing or non rrod xbox failures. never had a problem with windows patches causes problems in games or other apps.

and no i don't mean to turn it in to pc vs xbox. i just happen compare them both when talking about them as i have the most experience with pc than i do with any single console. i've had pc's for games and other stuff since i was 12, my first nes when i was 6. overall i've had just as many issues with console games in that time as pc games. for example blowing on the nes cartridge to get it to work, or needing to have your game genie plugged in with all games to get them to work.

i simply don't like fps on controllers. i've played plenty since 1997 or so, maybe earlier. my favourite is still perfect dark 64 due to the local multiplayer and it's various options including awesome bots and weapon spawn selection, and at the time i had just started using my mouse in fps games, so teh n64's jstick wasn't a big deal, even though the levels were very vertical in some cases.

i don't want to play dvd's or vcd's on the xbox, just stream video and watch youtube on the xbox. it would be alot easier than buying a minihdmi to hdmi cord that's long enough to run the long way around my wall so i don't risk tripping it over it.\


anywyas xbox arrived today, tv did not. :( now i need to get going on setting up the stand. :D

#23 neoadorable

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 16:40

for what you need the 360 will be more than fine, albeit not as nice as an HTPC...might as well build one of those if you got some spare part/cash. i know what you're saying about legacy consoles, there were more problems with those. but you can't seriously compare the complexity of a PC with that of a console - any console. i think this generation makes people more nervous, especially PC gaming traditionalist, because it's come the closest to closing the tech gap with the PC. of couse close but no cigar, but still, within the same ballpark as i said before. anyway, the main thing is enjoy your brand new 360 slim!

#24 OP Yusuf M.

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Posted 14 January 2011 - 09:42

actually it's called steam, and it's easier there. a large fraction of games on teh pc are available on steam. the biggest splinter for pc gaming social networking is blizz vs steam, and you can still tell your steam friends you're playing a blizz game automatically everytime you launch them by adding them to steam and launching from there(i honestly wish they'd take this one step furtherand detect the .exe launch automatically from teh desktop short cut for example). and with steam i can create my own community page, add members and post, set up events, monitor members game time usage and other stats, link pics and videos, text chat, start voice chat with online members, post links to my voice chat server of choice(mumble vent ts3) all without ever launching the game first, and switchign between games i don't even have to get out of my seat, or stop voice chatting with my friends.

sorry to rain on your parade.

[...]

What parade? :p

On a more serious note, it will never be as unified as Xbox Live. Steam may be popular but it doesn't encompass everything in the world of PC gaming. You have other services like Direct2Drive and Impulse that are separate from Steam (and one another). Also, not all games support Steam's features. I'm talking about features like inviting someone to a game or creating a party. It's great that some features are there like instant messaging and voice chat but the bottom line is, so many PC games have their own features. And with Steam stacked on top, it sometimes results in a conflicting gaming experience. A good example is any game that uses the Games for Windows LIVE service. I can have friends messaging me through LIVE and friends messaging me through Steam. With Xbox Live, everything is handled by the service.

#25 neoadorable

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 13:08

and Steam explicitly DOESN'T guarantee the games will even work, whereas Live and PSN do. of course there are exceptions, but on the consoles those are really rare. the PC is a free-floating market, so Steam can release Manhunt finally, which neodorable gladly forks over ten bucks for without question, and the game doesn't work, it crashes after like ten minutes of play. now neodorable needs to email Steam, and they'll be like, oh so sorry, go look on the forums/talk to Rockstar. doesn't happen on the 360 dude. i'm definitely in love with PC gaming again, but in terms of sheer comfort it's not even a patch on console gaming.

#26 treemonster

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    lol wut?

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 13:59

meh inputting my code for alan wake into xbox.com brought back an unspecific error. so i went to their support forums only to find several pages of threads from the last 2 days about issues, including one with people being unable to get past 28% in downloading alan wake. well it ended up working fine for me after putting in my code through my xbox(it didn't work any other way). it just took forever and i had to wait to do anything else as the other updates that would've been done in 30s were queued up after alan wake. a game this size would've taken an hour to download on steam. over xbl it took 5 hours.

#27 Kvally

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 13:12

a game this size would've taken an hour to download on steam. over xbl it took 5 hours.

That isn't the norm on XBL. Alan Wake downloaded in about 40 minutes for me, and worked on the first try. Actually, I never had any problems downloading the Games on Demand titles, except Fable 2 (which wasn't supposed to be a free download).

#28 neoadorable

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 13:42

treemonster if your PC pooped on your desk you'd say it's chocolate mousse, so i'll take what you tell us with a grain of salt :laugh:

my experience has been the opposite. stuff on Steam takes forever to download, but Guardian of Light (around 2GB) on 360 took like two hours. it was literally one gaming session and it finished in the background. i don't take your claims of 7GB games downloading off Steam in an hour seriously, forgive me...unless you're Gabe or live in his house. i wanted to tell you that the best way to download Wake expansions is from the game menu, not by redeeming codes off of the marketplace, but never mind, you already solved this.

#29 treemonster

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 13:57

the slowest i've seen a download on steam in the last 3 -5 years is 1.1mbps for me2 and that took a couple hours during the xmas rush. the only thing that downloads faster on pc is extremely well seeded torrents of anime movies which for bluray ripped fansubs of say evangelion 2.22 takes maybe half an hour. my internet is fast and it's not just steam. during the aion PTS's i made fun of some friends because it took me like 45 minutes to download the aion client through the ncsoft downloader. that's like 14gb. when i want to play a game on my pc and it's not installed i start the download at 2pm and by 4pm it's always completely set up and ready to go including manual installs of DLC when necessary.

i also don't tend ot have the problems others do and when i do have issues with my pc the'yre more minor for the same problems as others. the whole wow bsod thing people were getting them every 10 minutes, i was getting them once a week.

how am i supposed to download a download only game i only have a code for and no disc from anywhere other than teh redeem code option in xbox dashboard which is so cleverly hidden away? code did not work in xbox.com. i started the download before i started drinking that night and it finished near the end of the night. maybe it had more to do with the xbox s having wireless g and not wireless n.




anyways, i know you warned me about he xbox's media center capabilties but i am a t a brick wall where it won't play anything other than SD video. it's no surprise that MCE is still trash but everything i've tried onyl causes me to have to reinstall and set everything back up on my pc over again. files that played in wmp12 before i installed a codec pack fail to play on my xbox even with tversisty, and ps3media server just ****ed everything up. MCE won't even play files that play on in wmp12 on my pc, but the library takes hours to load on the xbox in MCE. so i'm stuck with downgrading my lirbary to SD and not watching anime on my tv.

#30 threetonesun

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 14:04

Don't use MCE, just share your libraries through WMP, and then use the My Videos or My Music menus on the 360. Works much better. I got the MCE working, once, but it was pretty atrocious. That, and the sharing works on my Macs, too. I use a 360 as my main entertainment hub, so it definitely works.