Editorial

Editorial: Things that suck about Windows 8 on a desktop

A while back I did a full upgrade to Windows 8 on my desktop PC, and while overall my experience with the new OS has been very positive, there are some choices made by Microsoft that hurt the experience for those using "traditional" PCs.

Now this could be a platform to rant about the Start Screen, as I'm sure many of our readers would if they were talking about what sucked in Windows 8 on the desktop, but I'm not going to. I actually don't mind using the Start Screen on the desktop, and after several hours of use I got used to the new way Windows operates without a Start menu. If you still don't like it, either suck it up, downgrade to Windows 7 or use a third-party app to bring it back.

But there are still other things that suck about Windows 8 on a desktop PC, so here they are with no sugar coating.

The Modern app switcher

First of all, if you're on a desktop machine chances are you're in the Desktop and you're using desktop apps just like you were on Windows 7. I'm currently writing this article in a desktop web browser, and I see no reason to use the majority of the bundled apps in the Modern UI, or any from the limited selection in the Store.

It's perfectly fine to leave the Modern apps alone, except for that damn app switcher that activates when you mouse into the top left corner. In Chrome I've pinned Neowin as my first tab (this is a pinned tab), so normally if I want to visit the site I simply mouse to the top left tab; but if I mouse literally 5 pixels too far it will bring up the app switcher.

Dammit, I didn't mean to open the app switcher

Now if you've opened no Modern apps at all this switcher will not activate, but it's not unusual for me to check out Xbox Music, SmartGlass or the Weather using the Modern apps. This means there is often one or two apps in this switcher for me to accidentally switch to when I don't want to, which can be incredibly frustrating and interrupts my workflow.

Then, of course, the app switcher only includes Modern apps and bundles all the desktop apps under the Desktop tile. This is completely useless to me as I might have 10 desktop apps and only one Modern app open, and the switcher won't show any of my desktop apps as separate entities.

The ideal situation is the app switcher includes desktop apps as part of the tiles it shows, but otherwise it should be disabled. Luckily there is an option hidden in PC Settings for that...

Taskbar transparency

Why did Microsoft choose to make the taskbar transparent when none of the other elements in the interface use transparency at all? Window borders are solid colors, previously transparent panels in apps are now solid colors, and any of the new Modern/Metro-style elements include no transparency.

Transparent taskbar with solid-color windows looks strange

If you can't make the window borders transparent the taskbar should not be transparent at all to preserve visual unity across the OS, but as it is currently it just looks stupid and horrible. I want an option to disable taskbar transparency so the visual improvements to the desktop are complete.

Search

If there is a feature that has definitely become worse in Windows 8, it's the search feature. Which fine gentleman decided that Apps, Settings and Files would be separated in the search results even when there are no results found. If I search for "mobile" using the quickest method (Win key and then type) of course it doesn't find any apps, but you would think instead of displaying "No results found" it would display at least some of the 121 files it found - the files I was actually searching for.

Then there's some things it simply doesn't find at all. Search for "task scheduler" and nothing comes up, but if you search for "schedule tasks" and then click on Settings it finds the appropriate function which then opens the Task Scheduler. What?! This is in no way user friendly, and makes it harder to access and find things you're actually looking for!

It doesn't even find the Task Scheduler under Settings

TechSpot has a great article that goes over how Microsoft made search worse in Windows 8, so I suggest you read it here.

The Charms bar

Sure, Microsoft may be looking to have design and function unity across tablets, notebooks, hybrids and desktops, but on a desktop PC the Charms bar is basically useless. 

Why even show these options?

  • The Devices option shows nothing but my second display
  • The Share button can't do anything in desktop mode
  • The Start button in Charms is the slowest way to open the Start Screen with a mouse
  • Search can be more efficiently accessed by pressing the Windows key, or mousing to the Start Screen, and then typing
  • The time, date and network status are already displayed in the notification area on the taskbar
  • Settings displays network, sound, brightness, keyboard and notifications - all of which are either unimportant, or already displayed elsewhere
  • In Settings there is a link to PC Info, a panel you don't need to frequently visit, and Personalization which can be accessed via right-clicking the desktop

There are literally two items that are useful on the Charms bar: the Power settings such as shutdown and restart, and the quick link to the Control Panel. Surely a smaller menu could have been created that removes all the rubbish and makes these functions easily accessible.

Settings are split

For some bizarre reason, in Windows 8 the settings for various things are split between the traditional Control Panel and the Modern-style PC Settings. No longer is there a central area where you can find settings for everything, instead you must search in both these places to find what you are after.

Items such as Windows Update, Ease of Access, Users and Devices appear in both PC Settings and the Control Panel, although often PC Settings does not have the same range of options as the Control Panel. Sometimes, such as with user account settings, the Control Panel will redirect you to the PC Settings menu, and then from there it might even direct you to the web to manage some areas.

One of several places that controls PC customization

Then of course there's some areas you can only change in PC Settings such as the lock screen image. Normally you might think this would fall under the Personalization settings accessible by right-clicking the desktop, where the option to change the desktop background lies, but nope, Microsoft has separated the lock screen image into PC Settings.

It would be really nice if Microsoft brought back one, central location to manage settings rather than spraying them all over the place and making it harder for desktop PC users to manage their PC how they want.

Windows Defender is hidden

In Windows 8, Windows Defender received a significant upgrade, drastically improving out of the box security. The main change is that Microsoft Security Essentials, available as a standalone product in Windows 7, has been fully integrated into Defender alongside the standard firewall. You'll notice that if you open up Defender in Windows 8, it looks essentially the same as MSE did in Windows 7.

With Microsoft Security Essentials, you knew you were protected from malware because you not only installed it, but there was a handy tray icon located in the notification area that would change colors depending on the security status of your PC. With Defender in Windows 8, all security-related notifications are hidden in the Action Center, which is not the most obvious of places.

You'd better not ignore that Action Center

Firstly, the Action Center is extremely annoying as it constantly reminds you of unimportant actions that you must take in relation to your PC, such as finishing to install software. I know I'm not the only one that completely ignores whatever the Action Center serves up, and I actually go to the effort of disabling it as a system icon in the notification tray.

Of course if you ignore the Action Center, or hide it completely, there is no way to know if your PC is potentially unprotected because the Action Center is where all Defender-related messages appear. Not only that, but end-users would probably not even realize that a full-blown free anti-malware program is running on their PC, and might unnecessarily purchase expensive third-party software, or even attempt to install MSE which results in an error.

Microsoft needs to bring back a dedicated Defender/MSE style icon into the tray, which could serve proper notifications to users surrounding the security of their PC and if any threats have been found. Then users would realize anti-virus software is already present by default, and everyone would be better off.

The first boot tutorial

There is no way to describe the first boot tutorial apart from completely inadequate. The only thing it instructs you on how to do is open the Charms bar, and as I've already said that is not a very useful menu on desktop PCs.

For desktop users upgrading to the latest OS, there are many changes that will present a usability challenge once Windows 8 boots up for the first time. The tutorial should at the very least instruct you how to open the Start screen from the desktop, and point out how the Start screen is replacing the Start menu - the main point of confusion for many people making the switch.

Yep, Charms is totally the only thing I needed to know about Windows 8

Of course there are many other things that Microsoft should perhaps detail in a tutorial, but only showing how to open the Charms bar is not even close to addressing the confusion first time users will inevitably face.

References to touchscreens

The final thing that sucks about Windows 8 on desktop PCs is that the OS doesn't seem to recognize that the PC doesn't have a touchscreen as part of the setup. There are references to touchscreens littered throughout the OS, including saying to "tap" rather than "click", and "swipe" rather than "drag". There's even a reference in PC Settings to a function desktop PCs don't have, which is swiping from the left to switch to a recent app.

Go ahead and try to do that...

What's strange is that the short tutorial that is displayed during the initial installation refers to moving the mouse, so it has detected the lack of touchscreen, but there's still loads of references to touchscreens that shouldn't be there. This should be a simple fix, and really should have been picked up on during the beta testing phase.

ClarificationIt was not my intention to blindly bash Windows 8 on desktop PCs, but rather to highlight some flaws that could obviously be fixed, and should be fixed, to improve the experience for everyone. I actually really like Windows 8 on my desktop PC, and I greatly appreciate the work Microsoft has put into improvements such as the copying dialog, task manager, improved boot performance, multi-monitor enhancements and so on. But I feel as if Microsoft hasn't fully, or properly polished the experience for desktop users like me and many others, and that is a great shame.

Report a problem with article
Previous Story

First Nokia Lumia 920 TV ad links to way to "work" for Will Arnett

Next Story

Steve Ballmer: first Surface sales are "modest"; hypes Windows 8 Pro version

208 Comments

Commenting is disabled on this article.

By the way, what the hell is up with the dark purple Windows 7 Aero-theme during install?
That is just plain lazy. Ugliest install ever, and kind of inconsistent with the rest of the OS looks.

I too miss Windows Aero Glass, but not to a pint to complain about it. The one guy who said that having a transparent taskbar when the Windows aren't transparent is stupid. Why? Are you really looking that hard at the Windows? When I had transparent Windows it didn't serve any purpose. Its just looks.

I think the solid colors are better. Its clean and simple. Yes I do agree we should have an option. For thos eof us on desktops or laptops that are pretty much always plugged in the all, let Aero Glass be avail. if you have a laptop, when you unplug it, Windows could default to solid colors to save the GPU task so it doesn't take a hit on the battery.

I also miss the Start button, but mostly out of habit. I still find myself clicking the corner only to have IE launch. For the amount of apps I have installed, the Metro UI screen extends to far to be used for launching apps. I do use my taskbar anyways which I have on every version of Windows that has one.

They should have kept the start menu, but again...its not a deal breaker.
I too agree that the Metro UI is for touch devices...DUH! If you have a laptop or desktop you can buy a touch panel for it. I didn't like the Windows 8 UI at first, but now that I've used it more I do like some parts. Metro is useless as many for the apps for it are designed for touch. But I do like the quick-in quick-out concept.

I have upgraded my laptop and desktop to 8. Its just Windows 7 with some quirks. I like the new look per se. Its even more snappier and the solid colors are great. Hey and all my Windows 7 themes work in it too. I could care less if the windows are translucent. What are you planning to see in that small space anyways?

I agree with every point. Good article.

I like Windows 8, but at times you feel as if they didn't really think this through (Particularly for the desktop)...

I got lucky the other day and found a Bamboo Fun tablet at a thrift store for $3 (without the pen, which isn't a big deal to me right now). I've found that it does open up a little bit more functionality on Windows 8 on my desktop. Hopefully they'll add a few more swiping gestures to their software for Windows 8 users soon.

At First I was very confused by windows 8 but picked it up very quickly. There are a number of improvements that can be made but I think that if customized correctly windows 8 is very enjoyable. They could definitely benefit from better tutorials out of the box. Installing Start 8 and Decor8 from stardock both improve the experience, Start8 more importantly. I think that as more Apps and customizations come out, it will get even better. Vista was a flop but if you installed the ultimate version, customized it correctly, and had a computer powerful enough to run it, it was great. At least the footprint in windows 8 is small enough that if you truly wanted to, with Start 8 or one of the other start menu apps, you could technically live only in the desktop and enjoy the upgrades and ignore metro, however I believe metro will be around for a very long time. And if you use it creatively it's very nice.

The team to develop Windows Search in Windows 7 or 8 should be fired!!
Windows Search is awful. It either cannot search what I want or miss a lot of hits.
I would rather wait a little time in Windows XP rather than using this sucking apps.

I agree to a great extent with what this article states... The OS is definitely lacking polish not just in terms of apps because that will be fixed eventually, but also in terms of design. I am sure they will fix all this in future iterations of windows. but currently certain things are painful... The split control panel being the top one in my list.

I wish Microsoft would open an event in nearly every country to invite a few people from tech websites (Tim, in this case) and play with the product in front of a microsoft rep who listens & documents real life feedback, then the rep takes it back and they sort it out.

It'll take a lot longer but will be spot on when they release it.

Dan~ said,
I wish Microsoft would open an event in nearly every country to invite a few people from tech websites (Tim, in this case) and play with the product in front of a microsoft rep who listens & documents real life feedback, then the rep takes it back and they sort it out.It'll take a lot longer but will be spot on when they release it.

^ This...with free donuts and lemonade.

@ elengab, right on dot. People getting on negatively emotional on a piece of software i.e. a new OS. This is exactly like it was before, after the release of each operating system. Well, MS is not pointing a gun at you to use Windows 8. If you do not like it continue using any previous system but please do not share the superficial reasons with us specially when most of you even has not explored the system more than 25%.

My overall experience with Windows 8 is very good. even better than Windows 7. It is quick, snappier, faster boot and shutdown and runs all my software that includes Audio and Video editing, tons of VST plugins, Image editing and plugins, Norton IS 2012, DVD/BluR authoring and lots of small useful programs (all of them desktop based) - without a hitch and faster.

Windows 8 has a lot of setting features and one has to explore or learn them by searching on the web. MS could have done a better job in guiding the users in the right direction for system settings.

People tend to mention their preferences if not present as deficiencies in the OS. This approach is not right. Instead adapt the new ways or things as they are charted by professionals who not only has an eye on the present but also the vision for the future.

My only issue with Start Screen is there is no file manager for modern UI. But Metro Commander fills the gaps well. I like the metro tiles and have setup them all with my settings.

PS: I only leave the Start Screen when I click a tile that takes me to desktop

auziez said,
This article's title should be "irrelevent stuff people complain about in windows 8"

I wouldn't call it irrelevant. The OS is not polished for desktop use, which you can tell quite easily.

MickeForsberg said,

I wouldn't call it irrelevant. The OS is not polished for desktop use, which you can tell quite easily.

well some of the articles highlights were just questionable, i mean they were never a problem for me but the article just blasts them up to the top of the problems.

auziez said,

well some of the articles highlights were just questionable, i mean they were never a problem for me but the article just blasts them up to the top of the problems.

i do agree that windows 8 still needs polishing, however.

I like Windows 8 just fine, but I do have some minor issues.

- Wireless takes too long to connect after booting up. It's quicker to go into the Charms bar and double-click the network and connect that way.

- DVD drive doesn't show up. Device Manager says it's not connected, which isn't the case as it works fine in Windows 7 (I have a dual-boot config).

- Random and sometimes frequent video driver crashes. 4-5 a day usually. Using Catalyst 12.11 beta (it happened on 12.10 as well so it's not because I'm using a beta driver). I can recall all of zero video driver crashes in Windows 7.

I for one will continue to "not recommend" Windows 8 to all clients. For those who might say so what, I deal with over 10,000 people a month in some sort of support role. Microsoft is basically trying to force users into there Windows Phone ecosystem because no one would touch that junk a couple years ago. What better way to try and get people use to Metro than to go after the worlds biggest audience in the desktop sector. I would definitely go to Windows 9 if they could better marry the desktop and tablet/phone experience.

JHBrown said,
I for one will continue to "not recommend" Windows 8 to all clients. For those who might say so what, I deal with over 10,000 people a month in some sort of support role. Microsoft is basically trying to force users into there Windows Phone ecosystem because no one would touch that junk a couple years ago. What better way to try and get people use to Metro than to go after the worlds biggest audience in the desktop sector. I would definitely go to Windows 9 if they could better marry the desktop and tablet/phone experience.

they are not forcing, so to speak, people into windows phone 8. Yes they are trying to create a bigger and better ecosystem, but in no way is that forcing - because you still have choice.
On the other hand, why would you not recommend it because it makes people want to get windows phone? lol

your argument deserve a so what

I'm sitting here in slight disbelief.. I just setup a bootable Windows 8 USB key and decided that my Netbook was due a reinstall and figured Windows 8 would be great for it. I don't need to run many apps on it and primarily use it for watching Netflix in bed, etc.

I just installed it and it seems to be running quite nicely. But found that I can't actually run any of the Modern UI / Start Screen based applications because the resolution is too low - so essentially Windows 8 just rendered this perfectly quick and usable piece of hardware obsolete? I got it less than two years ago! I just stuck a 64GB Crucial SSD in it and was loving how well it was running.

Is there anything I can do to work around this aside from basically installing something like Start8?

Chicane-UK said,
I'm sitting here in slight disbelief.. I just setup a bootable Windows 8 USB key and decided that my Netbook was due a reinstall and figured Windows 8 would be great for it. I don't need to run many apps on it and primarily use it for watching Netflix in bed, etc.

I just installed it and it seems to be running quite nicely. But found that I can't actually run any of the Modern UI / Start Screen based applications because the resolution is too low - so essentially Windows 8 just rendered this perfectly quick and usable piece of hardware obsolete? I got it less than two years ago! I just stuck a 64GB Crucial SSD in it and was loving how well it was running.

Is there anything I can do to work around this aside from basically installing something like Start8?

Not unless you use some hack that forces your netbook's resolution to 1024x768, since that's the bare minimum required for Modern UI apps to run.

I've been Enjoying windows 8, pretty much with the exception of everything you pointed out in the article, it's not something that restricts me as a user in using Win8, but i can definately see it being an issue for some others. Picking up a new PC for my Dad this week with Windows 8 installed, so this should be interesting. (he's scared to change from IE to Chrome, it could be bad)

"or even attempt to install MSE which results in an error."

^^ this is exactly how i figured out that there was a full blown free AV installed already, i went to put MSE on and it told me it was already installed.

Today I learned... where the desktop Control Panel can be found on a tablet. I can't bring up the Win+X menu on a tablet (sans keyboard and mouse), so I was foolishly going into All Apps and hunting down the Control Panel icon. Completely forgot that the desktop itself has a link in its Settings pane.

This kind of things should be made obvious though - not everyone knows about the Win+X menu and will be initially confused at where to find the Control Panel!

MS, please take some feedback and show what a great company you are, by updating Windows 8 to fit the needs of the people who have actually purchased it and are offering feedback. As users we don't want our operating system to lack features of the previous version, it needs to improve upon it.

The start screen is cool but its not working, modify it, add more options for those of us that need it. Freeware and open source softweare adapts, Windows is the best software out there and has the best programmers, it can easily adapt as well.

There is competition out there now days, other operating systems adapt following user feedback, you really need to as well my friends.

The ranting with most of these comments are childish. The dude gave his opinion on Windows 8 and that's his experience. Everyone has their own personal experience and coming from someone that has to work with many users over the past decade in the tech world, just about everyone uses the same OS a different way.

Most people that use these operating systems are not tech people by any means and they outweigh the people that are technical. If you think otherwise, then you truly do not work in the tech industry. I have clients that no matter how long they've been using a computer (even since Windows 95/98) still don't have a clue how to properly copy files from one folder to the next and I want to slap them.

Everyone will have their own and different experience with the OS. Its so vast that you can make it your own and then tweak it to continue making it your own. I can understand if there were maybe a handful of functions then you can complain that everyone is doing it wrong. There's more than one way to do one thing in Windows.

I probably couldn't pass any new MS certs because I don't know the novice way of doing things since I'm so technical when using the OS and don't do things the traditional way.

Kind of why I'm not a Mac person. I've found that I can greatly customize things more in Windows since it has a larger programming following. If I want to go further, then I'll mess with a Linux distro. I do believe Macs are a great product, but just not for me.

Stop the immature post. It seems if you don't have the same issues as someone else, it's because you're using Windows the way YOU want to since there isn't one way to do it, and you're pretty much making yourself look like a 12 year old.

Going further-------
My opinion is that I wish MS gave you a choice on how the OS is optimized for you. Like even a decade ago I wished they had an install option for say "Gaming Mode" or "Office Mode" where if you are a hardcore gamer, you can choose to have the OS tweak itself out instead of 3rd party apps or custom tweaks. For Windows 8 it would be nice if they had an option for "Desktop PC" or "Tablet" PC. I think that most people today are used to tablets with IOS or Android to where bridging the desktop/tablet gap is really not needed to be forced on you if you don't care for it. This is MS's product and they can do what they want though.

MS is in business for making money and they are making business decisions which I respect being a business owner myself. I understand the change as they mainly care about people that don't understand how to use a computer because they are the ones paying more money for personal computers. When is the last time you heard of a TRUE tech buying a computer from Best Buy? Tech's build their own PCs and MS makes more money from Dell and others because of licensing deals.

I just have always felt kind of burned by MS because they have never tried to tailor to the tech community. They figure we'll figure it out on our own. They don't make a majority of their money from us so we are not a priority to them.

@Tim, you might want to go into Control Panel and initiate a reindex, since I can't reproduce the issue you mentioned surrounding Task Scheduler. Something's off on your end.

rseiler said,
@Tim, you might want to go into Control Panel and initiate a reindex, since I can't reproduce the issue you mentioned surrounding Task Scheduler. Something's off on your end.

It has something to do with "Show administrative tools" being enabled. Which is weird. I wouldn't think it'd effect the search results, but it does.

I will never understand why do people have such strong emotions for a software... Did you really think the UI will stay the same for 70+ years ? I think people are mixing anger for the passage of time with disliking Windows 8...

Yes, there're annoying things with Windows 8, but I can also list 10 annoying things about Windows XP, Vista, 7 / OS X, Ubunto, iOS, WP, Android.

If you don't like Windows 8, just stop using it... If Microsoft's direction is not for your taste -switch - the OS is there to help you produce and consume - it's not the key thing about the computer experience - if you think you can be more productive with older or other OS workflow - do it.

Well said. Life is too short. Fine what works for your unique workflow and move on.

I'm glad the author marked this as an editorial, though. Too many writers for Neowin don't know the difference between an opinion piece and news reporting.

elangab said,
I will never understand why do people have such strong emotions for a software... Did you really think the UI will stay the same for 70+ years ?

Metro UI is based in Bauhaus that is 93 year old.

So, let's continue talking how old is bad and how new is good. ;-)

Task manager and other administrative tools can be set to appear in search. Going to start screen, accessing the settings tab (winkey+i) and clicking on tiles. There you will see the option.

Amazing how such small issues made a front page editorial.

Wow people are super defensive of Windows 8 flaws. I'm not sure why people think pointing out issues is a negative. The more issues are pointed out the more likely MS is to see them and go "hey we could make this smoother and more refined." Which is a benefit for EVERYONE.

Just because you can handle Windows 8 like a pro and these little things don't bother you doesn't mean it's implemented perfectly and couldn't be tweaked. MS pretty much ignored desktop in favor of trying to get everybody on Metro, but missed a great opportunity to integrate them both. It never had to be either or.

Metro is currently an App that runs on top of the desktop and hardly notices it's there and MS could do much to merge them closer together. I like this article and I hope people continue to push MS to do a better job. I enjoy Windows 8 and the direction it's attempting to head and look forward to patches in the future to make the desktop and Metro work better together.

John Eames said,
Wow people are super defensive of Windows 8 flaws. I'm not sure why people think pointing out issues is a negative. The more issues are pointed out the more likely MS is to see them and go "hey we could make this smoother and more refined." Which is a benefit for EVERYONE.

Just because you can handle Windows 8 like a pro and these little things don't bother you doesn't mean it's implemented perfectly and couldn't be tweaked. MS pretty much ignored desktop in favor of trying to get everybody on Metro, but missed a great opportunity to integrate them both. It never had to be either or.

Metro is currently an App that runs on top of the desktop and hardly notices it's there and MS could do much to merge them closer together. I like this article and I hope people continue to push MS to do a better job. I enjoy Windows 8 and the direction it's attempting to head and look forward to patches in the future to make the desktop and Metro work better together.

Its not the fact that people are giving suggestions or offering constructive criticism, its that some people seem to want to be drama queens about it. A lot of people have no really discomfort using Windows 8 at all. So for instance even in this article headline, I think "things that suck" is a bit much. Things that could be improved, maybe. My experience as a user isn't falling apart because of the suggested flaws in the OS.

People who have no discomfort point out they don't have discomfort, and get criticized of telling people "you're holding it wrong." But, honestly, the people who are getting offended are also saying "you're holding it wrong" -- "you're holding it wrong, otherwise you would realize how horrible it is and get fed up with it like I did!" ("you're in a distortion field.")

Blah Blah Blah Blah

Next article - 'Why smart people annoy me!'

(Maybe then you can get more than 10% of the readers to agree with you, especially if you target people with an IQ over 115, and identify why you don't like THEM.)

Ignorance is corrosive, and sadly people often don't know what they don't know, nor how silly they sound. Thank you for the laughter at your inept understanding of a simple OS UI. LOL

What i tested :
a) Internet Explorer 10 is pretty fast HOWEVER it is absurdly unstable. And it happened without flash (flash wasn't installed).
b) UAC, i disabled, however some task fails even if you are logged as an admin (and without UAC). My bet it is something is wrong with file permission.
c) In Explorer, double click fails for some files. Again, my bet it is about file permission.
d) Metro applications are castrate. Metro Applications are "web friendly" however they are limited for local resources (other than camera, gps). Even accessing a local file is a challenge.
e) The new boot system is evil.
f) Open multiples instances of a program is tricky.
g) The new task manager is a mess.

i ve some issues in win 8 like as follows
1--->AMD catalyst installation (fot AMD/ATI GPU users) works only once, i cnt upgrade it, the new installation stucks at "ENUMERATING HARDWARE CONGIG................" nd sumthng like that
moreover, i cant install the display driver with any version. the latest being catalyst version 12.11
i can install the display driver only with version 12.2(but its catalyst preview for both x86 and x64), BUT THAT TOO not so easily, if i simply double click it wont install the display driver, even if i right click it and change compactibility to windows 7 from properties, it doesn't work,,,,, but works if i right click and click troubleshoot and then compactibility issues and then choose windows 7,,,, in that case it works.
THIS PROBLEM IS NOT ONLY FACE BY ME, BUT MOST OF THE ATI USERS(in case of Laptops,,,, no idea about desktops)
never had any such problem with either Xp, vista or win7 till date

2--->many softwares won't work,, for e.g. REAL HIDE IP, i use it to access sites like (http://www.wwe.com) which redirect to a different site in my country, the software installs and runs successfully, but shows "PLEASE CHECK YOUR NETWORK CONNECTION AND TRY AGAIN" error...... then how the hell it shows my current IP. (IN WIN 7,,, it works FLAWLESSLY)
softwares like VMWARE also won't work
no problems in case of win7

3--->if u wish to install apps from win8 store, u cnt install it with FIREWALL "OFF". i mean many organizations switch off their firewall for programs to work flawlessly. but WHY IN THE WORLD, win8 needs it firewall to be on to install programs....

4--->blackberry users may find difficulty(both in laptops and desktops) if they wish to use blackberry internet via blackberry desktop software, they can use it only once, or ca use it till next restart. next time if they wish to use internet using the software u ve to unistall and install it again(repairing install wont work)(the software works,,, but the dial-up modem modem won't).............. to fix this i had to use bluetooth modem
no issues with win7,,,,which means the software is not buggy,, rather its win8

5--->moreover there is a BLUETOOTH INSTALLATION ISSUE. some laptops like in thinkpads there is no need to install bluetooth drivers,,,, but if u ve a dedicated GPU, u may ve to install the driver. now if u try to install the driver, it wont get installed. you ve to extract the setup, from therer again,,,, there will be many MSI files, u ve to chose the appropriate .MSI file for the bluetooth installation...........

5--->its actually a doubt,,,,,,,, if u r playing music via win8 store app( i used TUNE IN app in this case), the app ran for hours,, almost 1 full day, so it used some memory from my primary disk,,,,,,, i wnat to know WHERE THE HELL ARE THESE TEMPORARY FILES STORED, i tried disk cleanup,,,, deleted restore points,,,, cleaned it using softwares like CCLEANER,, WISE CLEANER,,,,and also tried to search my C drive manually,,,,,, bt in vain, it ate the memeory, but is not showing where its hidden

6---> some guys earlier mentioned in this post that metro apps won't work in admin mode. which actually proves that win8 is made for NOOBS, either u b a master with nthng to enjoy or be a student in a strict school

7--->MS OFFICE token managers wont work in win8. i installed office 2013 preview, which provided me witha genuine MAK key to be used with a limit of 5 times activation. in order to sace my no. of activations i use token mager which works flawlessly in win7,,,,,,,,,,,, it works in win8 too,,, but does not show the license backup option

8---> nd many more issues.............,none of which were found in win7 (both x86 nd x64,,,, both in laptops nd desktops, and thats the reason i reverted back to win7

IF YOU THINK, M THE ONLY 1 HAVING SUCH ISSUES, THEN PLEASE GOOGLE ANY OF MY ISSUES AND U LL FIND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CRYING ,, BUT WITH "NO SOLUTION"
ND PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING I VE NO ISSUES ARE EITHER THE BIGGEST LIARS OR NOOBS(got stunned by its improved graphics),,,,,,, they are like small nursery kids who become happy when u hand over a LOLLYPOP to them

i ve never seen people crying for issues with win7,,, but in win8

as the post was regarding "things that suck about windows 8" so i posted my REVIEW.
P.S. sorry 4 my spelling mistakes if any, i was habituated to limbo, so tried....................

Edited by sibu, Nov 11 2012, 5:21pm :

"Why did Microsoft choose to make the taskbar transparent when none of the other elements in the interface use transparency at all"

yeah and why was it the reverse of that in vista... taskbar always solid and windows glass bordered... Windows 7 was the only one that was consistant

neufuse said,
"Why did Microsoft choose to make the taskbar transparent when none of the other elements in the interface use transparency at all"

yeah and why was it the reverse of that in vista... taskbar always solid and windows glass bordered... Windows 7 was the only one that was consistant

So you can tell what OS the guy is using by the transparency.

It's a freaking pain trying to open multiple instances of a program from the Metro UI. Windows 8 isn't a total write off, but so many little annoying things that really ruin the desktop experience for a user like me.

For me it is the stability.

Networking Code is destabilized.
Takes long to connect.
Sometimes does not update icon.
Sometimes all networking applications get stuck while W8 is "connecting"
Sometimes Explorer.exe crashes while connecting.

Getting OOM (Out of Memory) gets me back to the login screen.
That is, instead of closing the offending application, W8 kills my whole workspace instantly and logs me out.

Task Manager takes a long time to pop up.
Task Manager results to "little" (useless) mode every time W8 crashes/OOM.

W8 hard froze almost all the way to RTM on a large amount of motherboards and CPUs due to its power saving improvements.

So I am inclined to believe,
W8 is a rushed product. It is as if I am using Linux - driver problems kill workspace, inconsistent User Interface, takes longer to do things, and so on.

ArialBlue said,
For me it is the stability.

Networking Code is destabilized.
Takes long to connect.
Sometimes does not update icon.
Sometimes all networking applications get stuck while W8 is "connecting"
Sometimes Explorer.exe crashes while connecting.

Getting OOM (Out of Memory) gets me back to the login screen.
That is, instead of closing the offending application, W8 kills my whole workspace instantly and logs me out.

Task Manager takes a long time to pop up.
Task Manager results to "little" (useless) mode every time W8 crashes/OOM.

W8 hard froze almost all the way to RTM on a large amount of motherboards and CPUs due to its power saving improvements.

So I am inclined to believe,
W8 is a rushed product. It is as if I am using Linux - driver problems kill workspace, inconsistent User Interface, takes longer to do things, and so on.

Sounds like you have a rather messed up installation with bad network drivers, or you have hardware problems that you do not even realize.

This is NOT normal behavior, nor even a known issue on thousands of systems I just queried for issues any of our clients have experienced in over two months.

Start with the basics, and find what is popping your network, if it is hardware or driver, and see what software you have installed, or if you have an upgrade that came along, that should NOT be present.

Out of Memory messages should be a rather big clue, because for this to happen, not only is something consuming RAM and not releasing it, but it is doing it on a level that Windows cannot compensate for, as the PAC system in Windows is designed to identify and stop software that normally would create this issue. So if it is getting past the PAC, it has to be a rather old and low level driver.

Good luck with your problem, but blaming Windows 8 is NOT going to help you. This is like people complaining when NT forced users to not share IRQs or blaming Vista when it exposed hardware shortcomings in motherboard ACPI implementations. The OS was not the problem, it was making the problem more pronounced.

thenetavenger said,

Sounds like you have a rather messed up installation with bad network drivers, or you have hardware problems that you do not even realize.

This is NOT normal behavior, nor even a known issue on thousands of systems I just queried for issues any of our clients have experienced in over two months.

Start with the basics, and find what is popping your network, if it is hardware or driver, and see what software you have installed, or if you have an upgrade that came along, that should NOT be present.

Out of Memory messages should be a rather big clue, because for this to happen, not only is something consuming RAM and not releasing it, but it is doing it on a level that Windows cannot compensate for, as the PAC system in Windows is designed to identify and stop software that normally would create this issue. So if it is getting past the PAC, it has to be a rather old and low level driver.

Good luck with your problem, but blaming Windows 8 is NOT going to help you. This is like people complaining when NT forced users to not share IRQs or blaming Vista when it exposed hardware shortcomings in motherboard ACPI implementations. The OS was not the problem, it was making the problem more pronounced.

Vanilla System. Two W7 made computers.
W7 Compatible Drivers.
OOM because 2GB is not a lot of IE10 and many youtube tabs and NVIDIA is using interns to make its drivers.

W8 is simply very unstable OS.
I already given proof of the claims as the unfixed hard freezing that left W8 unusable for many people until they fixed it some time after RC. RC should be stable and only hardbor small bugs and not Kernel--freezing bugs - this is proof of lazy rushed design.

W8 it should work perfectly with W7 drivers and W7 hardware

Search, Search, Search. Or maybe I should say Search Results.

Everything else is, OK. The cloud sync is great, too bad it won't sync application settings for reinstalls.

Walking Dead by Telltale requires you to add an old dx8in;ut.dll to get gamepad to work but that's compatibility issues with software. As long as devs support it for new games, no prob.

Music and Video apps appear beta stage.

things i don't like about win 8 x64 pro so far:

- no start button -> fixed using classic shell
- boot into start screen instead of desktop -> fixed using classic shell
- no ad hoc wifi setup gui -> fixed using netsh from command prompt
- built-in zip support -> fixed using same registry trick as in win7
- registry permission not as easy to change -> still possible but a pain
- file explorer status bar doesn't show disk/folder size
- file explorer duplicate copy/move dialog takes longer to figure out
- metro app not functional in built-in administrator account (biaa)
- pc games that uses 'games for windows live' (gfwl) won't work due to live won't work in biaa <- workaround by using 'liveless' dll
- several pc games that's non-gfwl won't work in biaa
- games folder missing in start screen <- supposed to be able to get back using shortcut trick
- some apps that work under win 7 doesn't in win 8 -> like comodo firewall (works now with latest version), symantec endpoint

overall, i do like win 8 x64 pro. it's snappier due to under-the-hood changes and native usb 3.0 support are fantastic.

Yet another trolling attempt with the word "Editorial" at the beginning to make it seem like your not trying to troll, and yes I did read the article and see you brought some points (although not very valid) the fact this "Professional Editorial" used the word suck in the title proves my point exactly. This site has become an absolute joke and if it wasn't for rappys gifs in the wrestling thread this site would be removed from my typed lists in a heartbeat.

I have seen many adverse report on windows 8 but reality is that this phase was also present at the time of windows xp release and then after at the time of windows 7 release. this phase will also pass after sometime. negative comments are coming from those users who have half discovered and quarter used the windows 8. they are throwing their shortcomings to the windows 8. my suggestion to those users are please give sometimes to discover it fully and be accustomed to it then say. windows 7 also faced these comments but now every one is advocating that OS. one day these users too will advocate windows 8. searching was never easy before windows 8. just put few letter of the search words and it will display. further searching divided into three parts namely applications, settings and files is a nice idea.

After all I've read about Windows 8 it's starting to look like Windows 8 is an unfinished Windows 9 in the same way that Vista was an unfinished Windows 7. It seems that if you're currently running Windows 7 on a desktop it makes sense to wait.

TreyD said,
After all I've read about Windows 8 it's starting to look like Windows 8 is an unfinished Windows 9 in the same way that Vista was an unfinished Windows 7. It seems that if you're currently running Windows 7 on a desktop it makes sense to wait.

I agree 100%. Windows 8's UI was made in 1 year that's why it is very unfinished.

MS dropped the ball for the people who still use a computer for more then checking a Facebook or Twitter status or writing a blog, checking the weather and wrapping things up with a game of Cut the Rope.

Windows 8 has a few really good things going for it.. but not the UI choices.

Windows 8 is not a good environment for the power desktop user. I have no use for the "Metro" Apps and there limited functionality that wastes valuable desktop space and don't even allow drag and drop! I spend my day on multiple monitors running Cinema 4D, Adobe After Effects, Photoshop, Corel Draw, and other creative programs. When I game, its through Steam and Origin. I can tell you right now that Windows 8 in itself gets in the way of doing what i normally do unless I utilize a 3rd party app to get a working start menu like Start8 and switch off hot corners . Even then there are serious problems with the UI.

1. I like a dark interface, but text and even the min/max/close buttons tend to get lost once you turn the color intensity down and shift the windows to black. i don't want gray or some fruity color.

2. The Ribbon Bar in Explorer, although handy in many respects, is bulky and feels like one those super huge Swiss Army Knives that you cant really use effectively but has every tool known to man on it at times. From years of using the Explorer without the Ribbon Bar, i know how to do all those function rather fast without ever using the new bar.

3. comes down to the overall look of the desktop. It seems rushed out the door. Like a weird mix of old and new with some colors, icons and other elements like the min/max/close just slapped there with no thought.

4. I'm not going to buy an all in one with a touch screen. Not enough power to render the 3D i produce or play the games I play. Adding another monitor with touch is out of the question. I spend my time in desktop applications and games that require a controller or mouse and keyboard like Battlefield 3 or Borderlands 2.

4. the new Start "Metro" Modern UI. Anything not "Metro" just looks nasty.

-scrolling forever to see whats there everywhere you go. I'm not on a tablet.. I'm on a desktop computer!
-settings everywhere and buried under layers. (Yes I know you can type and search while in the new Start for specific items.) Why should one of my screens be taken over by the start just to do a search?
-web versions of all MS "Metro" Apps have better functionality? Why should this be?
-NO Drag and Drop!?!?! in a modern OS UI? The fact that you cant drag and drop things while in the new Modern UI is backwards in every respect. take for instance Skydrive or Mail.
-the majority of apps in 8 are weak dumbed down versions with limited functionality so why would i want to use them when I have multiple monitors for a reason. The power applications that I use need the real estate. "Metro" just gets in the way.

ImTheRealChuckNorris said,

2. The Ribbon Bar in Explorer, although handy in many respects, is bulky and feels like one those super huge Swiss Army Knives that you cant really use effectively but has every tool known to man on it at times. From years of using the Explorer without the Ribbon Bar, i know how to do all those function rather fast without ever using the new bar.

http://winaero.com/download.php?view.18

ImTheRealChuckNorris said,
MS dropped the ball for the people who still use a computer for more then checking a Facebook or Twitter status or writing a blog, checking the weather and wrapping things up with a game of Cut the Rope.

Windows 8 has a few really good things going for it.. but not the UI choices.

Windows 8 is not a good environment for the power desktop user. I have no use for the "Metro" Apps and there limited functionality that wastes valuable desktop space and don't even allow drag and drop! I spend my day on multiple monitors running Cinema 4D, Adobe After Effects, Photoshop, Corel Draw, and other creative programs. When I game, its through Steam and Origin. I can tell you right now that Windows 8 in itself gets in the way of doing what i normally do unless I utilize a 3rd party app to get a working start menu like Start8 and switch off hot corners . Even then there are serious problems with the UI.

1. I like a dark interface, but text and even the min/max/close buttons tend to get lost once you turn the color intensity down and shift the windows to black. i don't want gray or some fruity color.

2. The Ribbon Bar in Explorer, although handy in many respects, is bulky and feels like one those super huge Swiss Army Knives that you cant really use effectively but has every tool known to man on it at times. From years of using the Explorer without the Ribbon Bar, i know how to do all those function rather fast without ever using the new bar.

3. comes down to the overall look of the desktop. It seems rushed out the door. Like a weird mix of old and new with some colors, icons and other elements like the min/max/close just slapped there with no thought.

4. I'm not going to buy an all in one with a touch screen. Not enough power to render the 3D i produce or play the games I play. Adding another monitor with touch is out of the question. I spend my time in desktop applications and games that require a controller or mouse and keyboard like Battlefield 3 or Borderlands 2.

4. the new Start "Metro" Modern UI. Anything not "Metro" just looks nasty.

-scrolling forever to see whats there everywhere you go. I'm not on a tablet.. I'm on a desktop computer!
-settings everywhere and buried under layers. (Yes I know you can type and search while in the new Start for specific items.) Why should one of my screens be taken over by the start just to do a search?
-web versions of all MS "Metro" Apps have better functionality? Why should this be?
-NO Drag and Drop!?!?! in a modern OS UI? The fact that you cant drag and drop things while in the new Modern UI is backwards in every respect. take for instance Skydrive or Mail.
-the majority of apps in 8 are weak dumbed down versions with limited functionality so why would i want to use them when I have multiple monitors for a reason. The power applications that I use need the real estate. "Metro" just gets in the way.

I have to disagree rather adamantly about it failing power users. You maybe haven't found the new keyboard shortcuts or 'ways' to do things that you used to do, but there is FAR more POWER USER features in Windows 8 than even Windows 7, especially with UI and usability.

With a few keystrokes a power user can be in more places than what was possible with Windows 7, and I feel sorry for people that haven't taken the time to find this out for themselves.

USE the Start Screen for searching and navigation to folders and command prompts and scripts and content and initiate saved searches. Don't avoid the Windows 8 Start Screen and try to only initiate or use your POWER USER skills from the desktop alone, you are cheating yourself.

There is a reason you can hit the Windows Key and TYPE Things like: C:\ and get a instant quick list of all the folders on C: or C:\Users\YourName to get a listing of your folders. This is not only taking you to the location faster, but is PROVIDING YOU WITH INFORMATION. If you want to see what is in a folder, you don't even have to open it.

You can even hit your down arrow to do autocomplete, and keep adding information, and end up with a crafted command line style search, like:

C:\Users\TheNetAvenger\Documents\*.doc

Hit the down arrow twice to Files and it will be an instant search of just that folder and just for documents.

This is POWER USER stuff, especially when you combine this with the Desktop Crawl Searches, use Saved Searches, and add in features with your own PowerShell scripts that you can drop objects from the search into.

In managing 'millions' of documents and emails, and on our company servers, over 50 million documents, using Windows 8 and the Search features alone that are available from the Start Screen alone are a power user's dream in finding data and projects and information that is returned INSTANTLY, either from the local Windows Search Index or from the remote Servers Search Index.

There is a lot you are missing, and I truly urge you to try to use Windows 8, especially the Start Screen alone like a Power User would.

There have been almost NO articles or talk about these features or how to use them ANYWHERE, and you will not find them on sites like Neowin. You are going to have to discover them as you did with Windows in previous generations, or go to Channel9 and watch some videos from 'true' Power Users that are the developers and engineers using Windows 8 for their daily work.

If Windows 8 'sucked' for power users, then the smartest engineers and developers at Microsoft would be HAVING A FREAKING COW. However, if you notice, THEY ARE NOT, because they understand Windows 8 and have taken the time to use it, and get past the 'old ways' and have been shown the cool new things they can do and how they can do it faster, even with just a keyboard or a mouse.

ImTheRealChuckNorris said,
MS dropped the ball for the people who still use a computer for more then checking a Facebook or Twitter status or writing a blog, checking the weather and wrapping things up with a game of Cut the Rope.

Windows 8 has a few really good things going for it.. but not the UI choices.

Windows 8 is not a good environment for the power desktop user. I have no use for the "Metro" Apps and there limited functionality that wastes valuable desktop space and don't even allow drag and drop! I spend my day on multiple monitors running Cinema 4D, Adobe After Effects, Photoshop, Corel Draw, and other creative programs. When I game, its through Steam and Origin. I can tell you right now that Windows 8 in itself gets in the way of doing what i normally do unless I utilize a 3rd party app to get a working start menu like Start8 and switch off hot corners . Even then there are serious problems with the UI.

1. I like a dark interface, but text and even the min/max/close buttons tend to get lost once you turn the color intensity down and shift the windows to black. i don't want gray or some fruity color.

2. The Ribbon Bar in Explorer, although handy in many respects, is bulky and feels like one those super huge Swiss Army Knives that you cant really use effectively but has every tool known to man on it at times. From years of using the Explorer without the Ribbon Bar, i know how to do all those function rather fast without ever using the new bar.

3. comes down to the overall look of the desktop. It seems rushed out the door. Like a weird mix of old and new with some colors, icons and other elements like the min/max/close just slapped there with no thought.

4. I'm not going to buy an all in one with a touch screen. Not enough power to render the 3D i produce or play the games I play. Adding another monitor with touch is out of the question. I spend my time in desktop applications and games that require a controller or mouse and keyboard like Battlefield 3 or Borderlands 2.

4. the new Start "Metro" Modern UI. Anything not "Metro" just looks nasty.

-scrolling forever to see whats there everywhere you go. I'm not on a tablet.. I'm on a desktop computer!
-settings everywhere and buried under layers. (Yes I know you can type and search while in the new Start for specific items.) Why should one of my screens be taken over by the start just to do a search?
-web versions of all MS "Metro" Apps have better functionality? Why should this be?
-NO Drag and Drop!?!?! in a modern OS UI? The fact that you cant drag and drop things while in the new Modern UI is backwards in every respect. take for instance Skydrive or Mail.
-the majority of apps in 8 are weak dumbed down versions with limited functionality so why would i want to use them when I have multiple monitors for a reason. The power applications that I use need the real estate. "Metro" just gets in the way.


Your first statement was an excellent summary.

The "task scheduler" search issue is a perfect example that search in 8's Start Screen does not work as well as it does in 7's Start Menu. I have StartIsBack installed and it's able to find "Task Scheduler" and list it without me having to click on a button to get different search results. It's all right there just like it should be.

I disagree on the issue about Defender and the Action Center. I think it's fine, but could use a more unified approach. The Action Center should extend to the Start Screen as well.

I see potential for Windows 8, and have hopes that MS can create a smoother more consistent experience sooner rather than later. Right now, it just feels very 1.0.

thealexweb said,
The Start Screen's search defiantly needs to be universal.

The search is universal across the system and apps available for the search. What I find annoying is you type in "TCP" for example. And you get System results that show on the right, but no "Apps" and then just a huge wasted blank screen. I'd like it to say "No Apps found, but here are some other options" and then list a System section with results and a Files section and so on that can be scrolled thru.

It takes way too long to launch certain System or other search results due to "Apps" being the first and only results.

benalvino said,

lol are you drunk

I mean I want an all option, this apps, settings and files sections is just another click I shouldn't need to bother with.

I hope Microsoft is listening to the end users, and will release fixes for the desktop computers, in the Win 8 service pack 1.

Hum said,
I hope Microsoft is listening to the end users, and will release fixes for the desktop computers, in the Win 8 service pack 1.

MS appears to have gotten lost in the rapture of pandering to fickle consumers; so the legitimate problems raised by the longer-term business community will be ignored. Don't hold your breath for SP-1 to reclaim the functionality that exists in Windows-7.

1) I haven't experienced that problem with the task switcher, so I won't comment on the problem; however, I will mention that I don't think Desktop apps should be included there. The "Desktop" mode should simply be classed as another app in the new experience, which is why it shows up as one entity there and why its running apps don't display or interact with the new experience in the same way the new apps do. The Desktop mode is merely there for compatibility and to run apps that aren't yet available in the new experience. It is not there to work with the new experience, and I don't believe it should be.

2) I'm indifferent about the Taskbar transparency. I don't mind it at all.

3) I have no problems with searching. I've found it great, and once you know to click on Settings and Files, if you're searching for settings or files, there should be no problem. In regard to searching for "Task Scheduler," have you tried that on Windows 7, with the exact same search terms?

4) The Charms bar is not useless on a desktop PC, at all:
- The Share option may not work in Desktop mode, but it certainly works in many "Metro" apps that one is using when they're using the new experience, as do the other charms.
- The Search charm works at all times, as does the Settings charm.
- You aren't using the Devices charm properly, It's there for if you'd like to print something (possibly from just "Metro" apps, but it might be for Desktop apps, too. I don't know because I haven't had to print anything yet on my home PC).
- The time and date is shown in the Taskbar notification area, for you, but it isn't for those of us who have turned off the time and date from that area, so that we have a more consistent Windows 8 experience.
- The same is the case with "settings displays network, sound, brightness, keyboard and notifications."

The Charms bar is very useful to me, on a desktop or laptop PC.

5) I don't think it's a bizarre reason as to why the settings are split between the new experience and the Desktop experience. The Control Panel UI is awful: It's awful to find certain settings and it's very cluttered. I imagine that Microsoft didn't want to clutter up the new PC Settings section and that they'd actually like to spend the time designing a much more efficient PC Settings section. This takes much time to design and implement, and it's very possible they simply ran out of time. Why hold up the Windows 8 release for the reason that the PC Settings section isn't finished, when they can just split the settings for this first version?

6) I think I agree with this, about Windows Defender. But rather than merely bringing back a tray icon, I think they need to make it a "Metro" app and hook it up to the Notifications API. That way, it's out of the way when needed, but users see notifications (toast, lock screen etc.) when something is potentially wrong.

7) I agree with this. It's clear that some users will have problems with Windows 8, so I think Microsoft should have given them the option of a much more informative tutorial. Having said that, they may have had reasons for this short one that we're not aware of.

8) Again, I agree with this. It's important to note that some desktop PCs do actually now have touchscreens. But for those that don't, maybe there is a way Windows could find out and change references to touchscreens, where appropriate.

Well, I don't use any modern apps. Win+Q works great to find apps in a jiffy. I'm sure not the way it's 'meant to be used' I'm sure, but works fine for me.

I bought it for one PC so everyone could have a go before I upgraded the rest. Im a desktop user, 8 isnt working for me that well but I am going to keep trying. Nobody else wants to upgrade lol

I miss the ability of splitting modern UI/ Metro apps by 50% (dividing the screen by to modern apps), also the ability to split screen 50/50% by an moden app/metro and a old descktop app.

One problem I experienced is in Windows 8 doesn't fully support AMD 6000 (I think that what I have) series anymore I think...

So I went back to Windows 7 and volla the brand new i5 can play games by using the AMD optimize program tool along with a secondary intel graphics card!

Kenny Kanashimi Chu said,
One problem I experienced is in Windows 8 doesn't fully support AMD 6000 (I think that what I have) series anymore I think...

So I went back to Windows 7 and volla the brand new i5 can play games by using the AMD optimize program tool along with a secondary intel graphics card!

Ya, this is not correct.

AMD doesn't support the 4xxx series graphics chipsets with Windows 8 WDM 1.2 drivers; however, they do provide the WDM 1.1 drivers WHICH ARE THE EXACT SAME DRIVERS YOU WOULD BE USING ON WINDOWS 7.

So if you were having issues with Windows 8, it was not due to a limitation or Windows 8 lack of 'supporting' AMD.

This laptop I'm on this morning is an i5 with an AMD 4650 GPU, the older desktop in this office is an old AMD Phenom with and AMD 6850 GPU. Both work PERFECTLY with Windows 8, and run the latest games FASTER than they did under Windows 7. (The latest DX11 titles, from Secret World and GW2 to CoD and Skyrim)

So if you went 'back' to Windows 7 for gaming, you are cheating yourself out of performance.

thenetavenger said,

...

I'd really like to stay back on Win 8 but the correct driver (from win 7 factory default) caused the screen to flicker a few times and log off itself. then the one that installed via update doesn't seem to work and give me a yellow examination mark next to the device name in device manager. Prob no driver has written yet.

thenetavenger said,

Ya, this is not correct.

AMD doesn't support the 4xxx series graphics chipsets with Windows 8 WDM 1.2 drivers; however, they do provide the WDM 1.1 drivers WHICH ARE THE EXACT SAME DRIVERS YOU WOULD BE USING ON WINDOWS 7.

So if you were having issues with Windows 8, it was not due to a limitation or Windows 8 lack of 'supporting' AMD.

This laptop I'm on this morning is an i5 with an AMD 4650 GPU, the older desktop in this office is an old AMD Phenom with and AMD 6850 GPU. Both work PERFECTLY with Windows 8, and run the latest games FASTER than they did under Windows 7. (The latest DX11 titles, from Secret World and GW2 to CoD and Skyrim)

So if you went 'back' to Windows 7 for gaming, you are cheating yourself out of performance.

Further, the HD5xxx (and above) is supported by the new (and WHQL) 12.10 "Never Settle" driver in Windows 8 (both x32 and x64). The 12.10 Never Settle driver is dual-certified (fits both Windows 7 and Windows 8), so if you have PCs with both OSes, you can use the same driver regardless of which version of Windows (7 or 8) floats your boat.

The hot corners are horrible. They should've left the start button at least for a visual target. When remoting in from a tablet it's extremely hard to get the start screen to show up unless your software does true mouse emulation. And dont even get me started about how bad they are with dual monitors or when using a virtual mouse emulator across two separate computers. Ugh.

I havent found a single app in the store yet that is worthwhile on the desktop. The closest thing is probably the Netflix App, but the Web version is so much better that it's not really even needed.

What will really suck more than all of the things you outline, is if they actually wait until Windows 9 to "adjust" some of the obvious annoyances. The speed with which MS has been moving lately could be greatly complimented by yearly adjustments to the annoying aspects of the interface.

I'm all with you on search. On the old start menu they at least put your search result into multiple categories, and they were even able to do that with a tiny little menu!!! Now with all that available WASTED screen space we only get one category of search results, and are now forced into extra clicks unless we somehow remember some keyboard shortcuts. FU MS on this one. I hate using the word fail, but I am pretty damn close on this one. I think pointless difficulty is more adequate. And Outlook Contacts Cards have been totally removed from the search results? Are you kidding me?

Charms bar in the desktop is useless but I can't see them taking it away, it's uniform.

Tutorials: It is 2012. There should be a big FAT tile on the main screen that, when you open it, has a NESTED FAQ on the left that stays put. While on the right are large VIDEO tutorials for every possible aspect of the new UI. This to me is totally inexcusable. No on should have to search the internet on their own for video tutorials on the very product that is sitting in front of them. The help section has too many words in it. Show me, well you don't have to show me, but why not show the millions of other people that were left in the dust when they also stopped shipping books on how to use the OS with computers.

All Apps Screen: The user account ID has a static home that is quite discoverable. It think they could litter little bits of more discovery all over the OS. When people do finally discover the all apps screen, the only thing in there that is orderly are the columns of jagged disorderly groups of Applications. It looks like a jumbled mess in there to me, just my opinion I guess.

Lack of a simple X to close a Window. I see no reason to drag then entire window down the screen in order to close it. Mind numbingly stupid unless I am missing some great reason to do this. On a large screen it is ridiculous. I see no reason that when you swipe down from the top or right click, that there should not be an X to close a Window. In their eagerness to over simplify, they have gone just a bit overboard here. Why do I need to close apps? Because when I am using the multi-tasking abilities, I don't need to swipe through a million apps that I meant to close but didn't because I was too lazy to drag my mouse down the length of my 27" screen, or right click in the left bar to individually close each one after the fact.

Ok, I'm done, other than that, I like it. Especially with small screen touch devices.

Most of your concerns are not applied because WIndows 8 is touch oriented.

For example: Having the gesture to close down an app is far way easier than trying to point your finger to an X button. Furthermore, if you are playing games, what will you do if you close the app?

Regarding the Tutorials, I agree, but not in an intrusive way. There should be some "Tours" which allow the user to know better the UI.

"Having the gesture to close down an app is far way easier than trying to point your finger to an X button."

I disagree. A swipe down from the top reveals an extremely large App Bar that has more than enough room for a finger friendly X, or a mouse click X.

"Most of your concerns are not applied because WIndows 8 is touch oriented. "

I wouldn't have a problem with that if they had not also expected a lot of people to upgrade their non touch computers. Every time I put Win 8 on an old XP laptop that has enough RAM, I am amazed at how great it runs. So If they are going to shove the Start Screen at those folks, which I am ok with, then they need to be a little more receptive to those that do not have touch. IMO.

Search is the one that really got me. I used to use Start, (type in 3 letters) and then find whatever I was looking for. Now I have extra clicks that I can handle ok, but totally eliminating Outlook from the search results blows my mind. But I adapt easy, and I adapted to that. But I still see it as something that really should and could be much easier, particularly considering all the screen space they have to work with on that search screen.

"Having the gesture to close down an app is far way easier than trying to point your finger to an X button."

I disagree. A swipe down from the top reveals an extremely large App Bar that has more than enough room for a finger friendly X, or a mouse click X.

"Most of your concerns are not applied because WIndows 8 is touch oriented. "

I wouldn't have a problem with that if they had not also expected a lot of people to upgrade their non touch computers. Every time I put Win 8 on an old XP laptop that has enough RAM, I am amazed at how great it runs. So If they are going to shove the Start Screen at those folks, which I am ok with, then they need to be a little more receptive to those that do not have touch. IMO.

Search is the one that really got me. I used to use Start, (type in 3 letters) and then find whatever I was looking for. Now I have extra clicks that I can handle ok, but totally eliminating Outlook from the search results blows my mind. But I adapt easy, and I adapted to that. But I still see it as something that really should and could be much easier, particularly considering all the screen space they have to work with on that search screen.

I disagree. A swipe down from the top reveals an extremely large App Bar that has more than enough room for a finger friendly X, or a mouse click X.
Don't you think that you could use that swipe to close the app?

Did you know you can modify the threshold for closing the metro apps?

Give this a try:
http://winaero.com/download.php?view.32

talib said,
You could try using "Alt-Tab" to cycle through open apps. This includes both 'Metro' and desktop apps.

Yes, but I'd prefer a mouse interface as well. The app switcher is pretty much like the new task bar.

It's a UX failure. Accept it and avoid it. The people in charge need to be fired. I am pinpoint a few thousand different issues but is there any point if not a single one is going to get fixed? Windows 9 will fix one or two of them and introduce another thousand issues. They're playing Interface Games of re-imagining.

MsftGaurav said,
It's a UX failure. Accept it and avoid it. The people in charge need to be fired. I am pinpoint a few thousand different issues but is there any point if not a single one is going to get fixed? Windows 9 will fix one or two of them and introduce another thousand issues. They're playing Interface Games of re-imagining.

Wow, this reminds me of that horrible looking Windows Phone 7, that everyone HATED even more than Windows 8.

The same one that one tons of design and usability awards: http://www.idsa.org/idea-2011-best-show

... and the same one that people seem to actually like once they start using it.

There is a reason why it is the number one rated phone on virtually every carrier from Verizon to ATT and as well as large retailers that track customer satisfaction reviews.

That kept getting smacked around by people here on Neowin until Microsoft showed the world that it was faster in pure performance and faster in usability than Android and iOS.

In about a year and half, the same realization will hit people as they give Windows 8 a chance and realize it is a bit different, but worth the change and stop 'hating' what they don't understand.

Microsoft truly has the leading minds in engineering and usability design, starting with Bill Buxton on down the list. Windows 8 was not a simple or light decision and will expand to offer more functionality as the model is further refined. If Windows 8 was 'horrible', the UI people at Microsoft, which is a lot of people, would NOT be quiet or standing behind it.

"There's even a reference in PC Settings to a function desktop PCs don't have, which is swiping from the left to switch to a recent app."

If you have a laptop, this works with the touchpad, no need for a touchscreen. It even works on a desktop if you have a touchpad. I guess you did not try that....

TruckWEB said,
"There's even a reference in PC Settings to a function desktop PCs don't have, which is swiping from the left to switch to a recent app."

If you have a laptop, this works with the touchpad, no need for a touchscreen. It even works on a desktop if you have a touchpad. I guess you did not try that....

Further, there are touch-screen monitors for desktops that predate Windows 8; that Windows 8's launch does, along with the greater appetite for such displays downstream, is actually increase the demand for such displays for desktops. (Unlike with portables - where such a screen can replace the traditional peripherals, such as a keyboard and pointing device, touch screens for desktops augment - not replace - the keyboard and pointing device. Different reason for being on desktops - however, so NOT dismissable out of hand.)

The only thing that sucks in Windows 8 Desktop is trying to use metro switcher/charms *with mouse* in a multi-monitor setup. It is bad in dual monitors and literally becomes crazy for 2+ monitors.

Everything else is just fine.


PS: You failed to mention this fact and went on about other "opinions."
1/10 for effort.

I upgraded my work machine the day of release. I'm really pretty frustrated with the multi monitor support. I was expecting a beautiful sprawling vision of the start screen across my monitors, but get half desktop, half start screen mess. If I click on my desktop on the right hand monitor, the left hand side(that was on the start screen) either randomly switched between one of my apps running, a blank screen that has the same color as my start screen, or my other desktop. Its insanely annoying. I can't get a handle on how to reproduce the activity, it just randomly decides based on what I have loaded.

I can also snap an app over to my right hand monitor, but as soon as I do anything, it pops back over to the left hand monitor grouped together with all the other apps/start screen. When you are doing remote desktop, having a little quarter of the screen with one other app isn't good enough to do anything. I have multiple large monitors for a reason.

I can replicate my icons in the task bar on both monitors, but can't get the system tray on both monitors, constantly hiding my mail notifier and time.

Honestly, I'm massively less productive with 8 than 7. Which is horrible shame because some things at amazingly faster(I'm still in shock at how slow windows 7 file transfers are compared to 8, what used to take me 10 minutes to complete are now done in about a minute).

Oh, and that whole not being able to disable UAC without completely disabling any Apps? Beyond annoying. I basically have a choice of doing real development work or having apps.

While I agree with you about many points, saying less productive on 8 than 7 is wrong. 8 desktop > 7 desktop even though it could have been better.

So basically, you are inflexible and not very savvy? Why is that Microsoft's issue?

personally there are only 2 things I dislike, the Music App and the Windows Phone 8 Sync App. Other then that...

Windows 8 Rocks......... Get over your self.

MikadoWu said,
So basically, you are inflexible and not very savvy? Why is that Microsoft's issue?

personally there are only 2 things I dislike, the Music App and the Windows Phone 8 Sync App. Other then that...

Windows 8 Rocks......... Get over your self.

You sound just like Apple fan when some tallk trash about they products!

MikadoWu said,
No I am just sick of the same complaint over and over and over again...........

So your solution is to just ignore it and hope it goes away? Yeah that'll work.

MikadoWu said,
So basically, you are inflexible and not very savvy? Why is that Microsoft's issue?

You just described 95% of all computer users which makes it Microsoft's problem.

rpsgc said,

So your solution is to just ignore it and hope it goes away? Yeah that'll work.

He's working around the issue - that's what MOST folks that use an OS will do.

No operating system is perfect - not for computers OR devices.

The better operating systems may require fewer workarounds - however, unless you literally do ALL the heavy lifting and design work (basically writing a niche OS for your own use), you WILL, at some point, have to compromise and work around a few issues.

That is the real problem that some folks have with (insert name of operating system) - they are perfectionists. (Notice that I didn't even name a specific OS or even Linux/BSD distribution - they ALL have their critics; it's not even puppies and kittens over in the Land of iDevices.)

Wow all the zealots defending Windows 8 on every point. It has flaws, even Microsoft knows it so for all of you to sit there and all you have to say is watch YouTube or simply to stop whining tells me all you people are turning into sheep just like Apple's army. If you keep "sucking it up" what is going to change other than you turn into an even bigger sheep.

Windows 8 has flaws, more so than any recent version of Windows. I personally want to have my voice heard. I've been using Win8 since the day it hit MSDN over a month ago. By now I know most intricacies of Win8. Still think they butchered up the desktop and workflows from Metro to desktop. For people who just like to play with their computers and then come troll here, win8 is the best thing since sliced bread. For the rest of us who have work to do, it is a complete disaster. Good thing it comes with Hyper-V so I can run Win7 in a VM so I can work and be more productive.

Obry said,
Wow all the zealots defending Windows 8 on every point. It has flaws, even Microsoft knows it so for all of you to sit there and all you have to say is watch YouTube or simply to stop whining tells me all you people are turning into sheep just like Apple's army. If you keep "sucking it up" what is going to change other than you turn into an even bigger sheep.

Windows 8 has flaws, more so than any recent version of Windows. I personally want to have my voice heard. I've been using Win8 since the day it hit MSDN over a month ago. By now I know most intricacies of Win8. Still think they butchered up the desktop and workflows from Metro to desktop. For people who just like to play with their computers and then come troll here, win8 is the best thing since sliced bread. For the rest of us who have work to do, it is a complete disaster. Good thing it comes with Hyper-V so I can run Win7 in a VM so I can work and be more productive.

So um, how does Win8 make your work harder to do?

Obry said,
Wow all the zealots defending Windows 8 on every point. It has flaws, even Microsoft knows it so for all of you to sit there and all you have to say is watch YouTube or simply to stop whining tells me all you people are turning into sheep just like Apple's army. If you keep "sucking it up" what is going to change other than you turn into an even bigger sheep.

Windows 8 has flaws, more so than any recent version of Windows. I personally want to have my voice heard. I've been using Win8 since the day it hit MSDN over a month ago. By now I know most intricacies of Win8. Still think they butchered up the desktop and workflows from Metro to desktop. For people who just like to play with their computers and then come troll here, win8 is the best thing since sliced bread. For the rest of us who have work to do, it is a complete disaster. Good thing it comes with Hyper-V so I can run Win7 in a VM so I can work and be more productive.

There are flaws but I can work through them. Windows Phone 8 won't sync so that's annoying. Music app just sucks honestly. I mean it works but it has no settings, no options, nothing. It needs more oomph. IE10 is great but some sites don't do so well with it. I run on desktop and it IS faster than Windows 7. My machine is 4 years old and it got an extra kick from upgrading.

Most important thing is giving feedback to MS. Complaining here gets nothing done.

laserfloyd said,

There are flaws but I can work through them. Windows Phone 8 won't sync so that's annoying. Music app just sucks honestly. I mean it works but it has no settings, no options, nothing. It needs more oomph. IE10 is great but some sites don't do so well with it. I run on desktop and it IS faster than Windows 7. My machine is 4 years old and it got an extra kick from upgrading.

Most important thing is giving feedback to MS. Complaining here gets nothing done.

Also, unless you're running WindowsRT, you DO still have Win32 as a fallback for most applications. Hate the Xbox Music ModernUI app? Use VLC or even (don't faint) Zune Player 4.8 (yes; it will indeed install (and does work) in Windows 8 (even Pro x64 with Media Center, which is what I am running today).

Have you forgotten the first rule of workflow? Workflow is pretty much designed around "a place for everything, and everything in its place" - it is the mantra of the organized. The radical UI change of Windows 8 IS going to break routines simply by being different - nobody, but nobody, has stated otherwise. The real motivation behind the complaints of this sort is that some folks are so set in that routine/workflow that they can take little to NO disruption in it. However, admitting that you're so change-averse is basically ASKING to be pigeonholed as an extremist - hence the euphemisms and disguising.

Thank you! Those are also my main concerns.

One thing to add up is that I can't right click and select "Scan with Windows Defender" so I could quickly look up for any viruses on any flash drive.

Jose_49 said,
Thank you! Those are also my main concerns.

One thing to add up is that I can't right click and select "Scan with Windows Defender" so I could quickly look up for any viruses on any flash drive.

when you download an app or file from usb it does that quietly... even when you are installing it... to experiment download a keygen and see what happens...

benalvino said,

when you download an app or file from usb it does that quietly... even when you are installing it... to experiment download a keygen and see what happens...


Hmm... Thanks for the tip!

The underlying Win 8 OS rocks and is significantly better than 7, except for the UX on the traditional desktop/laptop. However a lot of these issues are being addressed by third parties and a cottage industry for Win 8 UX enhancement apps is being built and apps are already in the marketplace. Check out StarDock's Start8 product for example. Although not perfect these folks are working on filling the gaps. Yeah, I agree Windows 8 should have been a transitional release but its time to figure out how to use the OS and there are ways to get back to more of a desktop/laptop oriented win7 like UX. How about instead on just complaining help solve the problem. People are tiring of the same complaints in editorials. Same complaints over and over we heard through beta. If your going to write an editorial then make it something helpful.

I've been using/upgrading to Windows 8 since the Dev Preview. While I have to agree that some of the features are a bit annoying without a touch-screen, the overall OS is amazing. Much faster start up times, ISO mounting, better CPU usage and that live tiles.

drazgoosh said,
I've been using/upgrading to Windows 8 since the Dev Preview. While I have to agree that some of the features are a bit annoying without a touch-screen, the overall OS is amazing. Much faster start up times, ISO mounting, better CPU usage and that live tiles.

they are not annoying... someone is looking for a post that will score him 100 comments. a 3 year old don't have this issue... this is even easier to use that the said Ubuntu and their copycat task bar. talk about os x. still not easier to use than windows too.

The first boot tutorial should be changed to the The first user creation tutorial as it starts when you make a new user account. (you can skip by pressing alt+f4 but then you get a blank screen for a minute or so....

"Go ahead and try to do that..." I tried, and yes, it works on my desktop...

Anyway, about the Charms Bar: they can't let options disappear 'cause that makes it incossistant, I think how it's handeled now is much better. I also don't see the problem with the Control Panel, I mean, do you realy need the advanced one so much? I disagree also with most of the other points.

Studio384 said,
"Go ahead and try to do that..." I tried, and yes, it works on my desktop...

Anyway, about the Charms Bar: they can't let options disappear 'cause that makes it incossistant, I think how it's handeled now is much better. I also don't see the problem with the Control Panel, I mean, do you realy need the advanced one so much? I disagree also with most of the other points.


personally i need the advanced control panel and the other one, for me at least, is pretty useless. but thats just me... as for the charms bar , many of us have said it already that some features should be inactive when there is no touch screen (or muti-touch mouse pad for the matter) detected...

Its a shame really cause when I install a start menu alternative Windows 8 is actually really good ...

Som said,


personally i need the advanced control panel and the other one, for me at least, is pretty useless. but thats just me... as for the charms bar , many of us have said it already that some features should be inactive when there is no touch screen (or muti-touch mouse pad for the matter) detected...

Its a shame really cause when I install a start menu alternative Windows 8 is actually really good ...

having both is better... one is for the tablet and logging welcome screen feature... notification. the other one is massive. so its better.

If you are using "10 desktop apps and only one Modern app", you are not qualified to write this review. Come back when you have a broader experience set.

rdmiller said,
If you are using "10 desktop apps and only one Modern app", you are not qualified to write this review. Come back when you have a broader experience set.

Agreed. If you're unwilling (or unable due to a lack of apps) to touch Metro and stay at the desktop all the time, then of course the sharing and device charms aren't going to do anything. The charms bar is 95% designed for use when in Metro, not the desktop... and in that scenario it's not useless at all. Far from it, it's one of the best features of Windows 8.

TCLN Ryster said,

Agreed. If you're unwilling (or unable due to a lack of apps) to touch Metro and stay at the desktop all the time, then of course the sharing and device charms aren't going to do anything. The charms bar is 95% designed for use when in Metro, not the desktop... and in that scenario it's not useless at all. Far from it, it's one of the best features of Windows 8.

There is no reason why Microsoft could not display the Charms bar in the Desktop while keeping it for the Modern UI.

I'm also not unwilling to touch Metro apps, but I find their functionality for what I need to do is limited, and often implementations (looking at you Mail and Messenger) are poor. Many apps currently available are for services I can already access on my web browser (Weather, News, Finance, Wikipedia, Google Reader, etc.), and seeing as though the Desktop is my main environment there is no need to head into the Start screen to use them.

Currently the only Modern apps I use are SkyDrive, SmartGlass, Music and sometimes the Calendar. I don't see a need to use any of the other ones, and I believe a lot of end users will simply resort to using the familiar desktop first and foremost over the Modern apps.

rdmiller said,
If you are using "10 desktop apps and only one Modern app", you are not qualified to write this review. Come back when you have a broader experience set.

So your typical Windows user, who has a core set of applications that they use is unqualified to have opinions on or write about Windows 8. I see.

What major "Modern Apps" should one be using before they were qualified to write such articles?

Chicane-UK said,
What major "Modern Apps" should one be using before they were qualified to write such articles?

The 'Koolaid App', obviously.

One of the things I don't understand is why the mouse isn't recognised like touch input. For example, you can't click and drag to scroll on the Start Screen - you can only use the mouse wheel or click the scrollbar at the bottom. It's the same in Metro apps. Mouse users are treated as second class citizens.

theyarecomingforyou said,
One of the things I don't understand is why the mouse isn't recognised like touch input. For example, you can't click and drag to scroll on the Start Screen - you can only use the mouse wheel or click the scrollbar at the bottom. It's the same in Metro apps. Mouse users are treated as second class citizens.

I'd like to see how you propose to select text in any long document or web page.

AstareGod said,

I'd like to see how you propose to select text in any long document or web page.

Leave that dude he hasn't use windows 8 before from this comment he made... you can scroll in 4 different ways. one is by clicking at the scroll bar and drag it... the other is take the mouse to the end of the screen and swipe to that same direction the other is placing the mouse at the bottom right of the scroll bar and click it. and lastly using the scroll wheel. You see why you guys need youtube cause you cant learn on your own.

benalvino said,
Leave that dude he hasn't use windows 8 before from this comment he made.

I started using the Developer Preview the day it was released (over a year ago) and upgraded to Windows 8 on the day of release. Ad hominem attacks do nothing to address the point that I made and only make you look rather petty and immature.

AstareGod said,
I'd like to see how you propose to select text in any long document or web page.

That would be for Microsoft to determine and implement. One solution would be to use right-click or middle-click for dragging - the latter would be the more intuitive, as it's already used for scrolling. Another would be to default to text select when clicking on text and drag otherwise - that would be similar to the selection method used in Explorer for drag selecting files / folders. Finally, Microsoft could have allowed drag-scrolling only on the Start Screen and in Metro apps - that would probably have been the best solution, rather than messing with the desktop.

As I said, mouse users are treated as second class citizens.

theyarecomingforyou said,
One of the things I don't understand is why the mouse isn't recognised like touch input. For example, you can't click and drag to scroll on the Start Screen - you can only use the mouse wheel or click the scrollbar at the bottom. It's the same in Metro apps. Mouse users are treated as second class citizens.

The philosophy is that mouse input should not be based on emulating touch (or vice versa), instead the input language should be optimized for each method. Clicking and dragging is a more awkward motion to make with a mouse, so they tried to find a more "mouse-native" way of panning instead.

This is pretty much the opposite of being treated as a second class citizen - in fact, if anything what you propose (making mouse users emulate touch motions) would make the mouse second class.

theyarecomingforyou said,

I started using the Developer Preview the day it was released (over a year ago) and upgraded to Windows 8 on the day of release. Ad hominem attacks do nothing to address the point that I made and only make you look rather petty and immature.

That would be for Microsoft to determine and implement. One solution would be to use right-click or middle-click for dragging - the latter would be the more intuitive, as it's already used for scrolling. Another would be to default to text select when clicking on text and drag otherwise - that would be similar to the selection method used in Explorer for drag selecting files / folders. Finally, Microsoft could have allowed drag-scrolling only on the Start Screen and in Metro apps - that would probably have been the best solution, rather than messing with the desktop.

As I said, mouse users are treated as second class citizens.

Learn to use the mouse wheel dude, also there are many mice coming out now with multi direction "scroll wheels" that allow scrolling on both X & Y axis.

Toysoldier said,
Learn to use the mouse wheel dude

Scrolling down with a mouse-wheel to scroll right is not intuitive and side-scrolling mouse wheels are very uncommon (they were a fad about 5-6 years ago but then they nearly completely disappeared). If you're suggesting that I don't know how to use a mouse wheel then let me just say that you need to grow up.

contextfree said,
The philosophy is that mouse input should not be based on emulating touch (or vice versa), instead the input language should be optimized for each method. Clicking and dragging is a more awkward motion to make with a mouse, so they tried to find a more "mouse-native" way of panning instead.

The trouble is that touch - through phones and tablets - has become such an established input system that you expect to be able to do the same things with a mouse. Microsoft has already promoted mouse gestures in both Aero and Metro yet refused to go the final step and allow both systems to control in a similar way. Metro apps are optimised for tablets and simply don't control as well on mouse - the drag to close gesture exemplifies the problem, as I've shown it to numerous people and they still struggle with it (never mind that it's not explained anywhere, which is another disaster).

theyarecomingforyou said,

Scrolling down with a mouse-wheel to scroll right is not intuitive and side-scrolling mouse wheels are very uncommon (they were a fad about 5-6 years ago but then they nearly completely disappeared). If you're suggesting that I don't know how to use a mouse wheel then let me just say that you need to grow up.

Please do yourself a favour and check out products that are available, your lack of product knowledge is saddening.

Alot of mice these days have gesture pads (or similar), these pads sense finger movement.

like this one
http://www.dove.co.nz/products/oem-and-component/mice/8804

/facepalm

Toysoldier said,

Please do yourself a favour and check out products that are available, your lack of product knowledge is saddening.

Alot of mice these days have gesture pads (or similar), these pads sense finger movement.

like this one
http://www.dove.co.nz/products/oem-and-component/mice/8804

/facepalm

So, in your mind, people should have to buy and learn new input devices just because they upgraded their OS? I've kept the same trackball for my desktop for the last 4 OS versions I've used (XP, Vista, 7, and 8), and also used it with other OSs on other computers. Why? It is comfortable for me and I paid a good bit of money for it. It still works as well as it did on the day I bought it. I have no intention of replacing it anytime soon unless it dies, and even then I'll probably replace it with the same model.

roadwarrior said,

So, in your mind, people should have to buy and learn new input devices just because they upgraded their OS? I've kept the same trackball for my desktop for the last 4 OS versions I've used (XP, Vista, 7, and 8), and also used it with other OSs on other computers. Why? It is comfortable for me and I paid a good bit of money for it. It still works as well as it did on the day I bought it. I have no intention of replacing it anytime soon unless it dies, and even then I'll probably replace it with the same model.

If you want to make the most out of the new OS then yes, you should upgrade your hardware, but there is no rule saying you have to, otherwise your welcome to keep using your old devices, I have a 3yr old Razer gaming mouse, works fine with Win8 for me.

roadwarrior said,

So, in your mind, people should have to buy and learn new input devices just because they upgraded their OS? I've kept the same trackball for my desktop for the last 4 OS versions I've used (XP, Vista, 7, and 8), and also used it with other OSs on other computers. Why? It is comfortable for me and I paid a good bit of money for it. It still works as well as it did on the day I bought it. I have no intention of replacing it anytime soon unless it dies, and even then I'll probably replace it with the same model.

I agree with you man! Some people have an answer for everything no matter how bad a product may be.

AstareGod said,

I'd like to see how you propose to select text in any long document or web page.

Actually, I select text in any HTML file (after all, that's what a Web page is) the same way I've always done - use the cursor to highlight the selected text, then use either Ctrl+C (keyboard) or right-button/context menu (all pointing devices). Windows 8 didn't change this capability, and it works in every browser - while it's NOT my default, I use this in Waterfox daily, as it IS my usual browser.

Toysoldier said,
Please do yourself a favour and check out products that are available, your lack of product knowledge is saddening.

If you'd actually read my post you'd have seen I said they were "uncommon", not non-existent. More importantly, 99% of users would have to go out and buy a new mouse - not exactly practical, is it?

Please don't quote my posts unless you actually want to address what I said.

theyarecomingforyou said,

If you'd actually read my post you'd have seen I said they were "uncommon", not non-existent. More importantly, 99% of users would have to go out and buy a new mouse - not exactly practical, is it?

Please don't quote my posts unless you actually want to address what I said.

They don't have to buy a new mouse, the mouse wheel on my mouse works perfectly with windows, if you actually bothered to read my posts you would have seen I said "If you want to make the most out of the new OS"

Again /facepalm

Anarkii said,
Great post, and the exact reasons why I and many others I know wont touch Windows 8 with a 10 foot pole.

Exactly!!!

Things that suck about metro in general (even though I like it overall):
- You can't "make smaller/larger" a bunch of selected tiles, even if you have only selected tiles which are capable of doing so
- You can't uninstall multiple apps at once, even if you only selected multiple apps from the windows store
- You can't enable/disable live tiles on a selection of apps, even if they support live tiles, even if they are both already enabled/disabled.

On the matter of the transparent taskbar, back in the windows xp days, I encountered many people who had dragged a window out of the way, only to have a 1/2px section of it poking up from behind the taskbar. I imagine it is transparent to help reduce losing windows

The modern app switcher separation with the desktop taskbar works quite well in theory, they're two different environments, it fails when it actually comes to actually training users to use it. I still don't automatically go to it, and I've been using windows 8 in one form or another for more than 6 months now!

I find myself simply going back to the start screen and clicking apps as though they weren't already running simply because I've never had to worry about going to two different places to switch apps before. There's also no guarantee that the said app that you want to switch to is actually running, so why use the metro task switcher if you can just as easily open your app through the start menu? You could just waste a moment opening the metro task switcher to find that you closed the app. The problem lies in the fact that you can't always see whats in the switcher.

Edited by Mark, Nov 11 2012, 11:30am :

Mark said,
Things that suck about metro in general (even though I like it overall):
- You can't "make smaller/larger" a bunch of selected tiles, even if you have only selected tiles which are capable of doing so
- You can't uninstall multiple apps at once, even if you only selected multiple apps from the windows store
- You can't enable/disable live tiles on a selection of apps, even if they support live tiles, even if they are both already enabled/disabled.

Please can you install multiple apps at once? you the machine do it one after the other... so why you want to uninstall multiple apps at once... which OS gives you that ability. You guys really know how to make problems out of nothing.

benalvino said,

Please can you install multiple apps at once? you the machine do it one after the other... so why you want to uninstall multiple apps at once... which OS gives you that ability. You guys really know how to make problems out of nothing.

You can install multiple apps at once, windows installs up to three at once and queues any more. Uninstall behavior could work the same way but it doesn't.

I'm not making a problem out of nothing, you could argue that releasing a new OS is making a problem out of nothing, as the old one worked just fine. There's nothing wrong with stating problems that could have an easy fix. I'll be very surprised if the issues I brought up are not addressed in an update at some point.

Mark said,

You can install multiple apps at once, windows installs up to three at once and queues any more. Uninstall behavior could work the same way but it doesn't.

I'm not making a problem out of nothing, you could argue that releasing a new OS is making a problem out of nothing, as the old one worked just fine. There's nothing wrong with stating problems that could have an easy fix. I'll be very surprised if the issues I brought up are not addressed in an update at some point.

you are talking about when you downloading from the market place... ios wp do that.... now no OS will allow you uninstall multiple are once... you get t he point? due to security reason and how file system works you cant install multiple desktop apps at once and uninstall at once... the OS try to make you know that you are in control when apps are installed therefore it doesn't allow anything to work automatically.

benalvino said,

you are talking about when you downloading from the market place... ios wp do that.... now no OS will allow you uninstall multiple are once... you get t he point? due to security reason and how file system works you cant install multiple desktop apps at once and uninstall at once... the OS try to make you know that you are in control when apps are installed therefore it doesn't allow anything to work automatically.

Although I'll agree with the security issue you raised, I don't think the filesystem point is really a problem.

Mark said,

Although I'll agree with the security issue you raised, I don't think the filesystem point is really a problem.

ok... then tell me which os that lets you uninstall multiple apps at once? unless you run a shell command or some program to do that... you cant. just name one OS that does multiple uninstalling or installing about from mobile stuff... even the mobile stuff do it simultaneously and not at once. so no OS can do that.

benalvino said,
ok... then tell me which os that lets you uninstall multiple apps at once?

It doesn't matter whether other operating systems allow it or not as features have to originate somewhere; the issue is that it isn't supported. There's no reason why multiple uninstall operations couldn't simply be queued to occur one after another.

theyarecomingforyou said,

It doesn't matter whether other operating systems allow it or not as features have to originate somewhere; the issue is that it isn't supported. There's no reason why multiple uninstall operations couldn't simply be queued to occur one after another.

when you know how file system works then you might understand... uninstalling stuffs takes less than 2 mins... and you need to go through protocols and permission doing uninstalling... so why do you want to queue? guys seriously... try uninstalling IDM... it ask you for default uninstalling or complete... there are some apps like that... that gives even more protocol.

benalvino said,

when you know how file system works then you might understand... uninstalling stuffs takes less than 2 mins... and you need to go through protocols and permission doing uninstalling... so why do you want to queue? guys seriously... try uninstalling IDM... it ask you for default uninstalling or complete... there are some apps like that... that gives even more protocol.

I see you're trying to push the concept that multiple app removals are impossible. Well, it's possible on iOS with cydia. You can choose several apps to be removed and all the scripts are run, one after another. Another point is, try doing app updates in Windows 8. Yes, that's right, it can do more than one at once. Guess what? Modern PCs can multitask! I understand that removing several conventional desktop apps takes more work, and you can only usually remove one at a time but on the whole, all that is required to remove a windows 8 app is a folder deletion.

Also IDM? As in Internet Download Manager which is a /desktop/ app? We are talking about metro apps here specifically.

Mark said,

I see you're trying to push the concept that multiple app removals are impossible. Well, it's possible on iOS with cydia. You can choose several apps to be removed and all the scripts are run, one after another. Another point is, try doing app updates in Windows 8. Yes, that's right, it can do more than one at once. Guess what? Modern PCs can multitask! I understand that removing several conventional desktop apps takes more work, and you can only usually remove one at a time but on the whole, all that is required to remove a windows 8 app is a folder deletion.

Also IDM? As in Internet Download Manager which is a /desktop/ app? We are talking about metro apps here specifically.

Last time I check we are talking about windows 8... not just metro. and I like the fact that you say there is app to do that in IOS... you read through my post you will see where I said if you right shell script maybe in Linux or windows... the OS can automate it for you... guess what when you say a program in IOS its basically the same thing am talking about. but the application to do that is not what we are talking about... we are talking about the OS. and please note that deleting app is not by locating the folder in windows 8 only. registry and processes has to be configured... do you realize apps integrate with other apps... why does windows need to shut down sometimes to uninstall app... now you see that it is not just a simple copy and past or deleting folder **** to uninstall an app. UAC will never allow any app to automate deletion too cause malicious app can take advantage.

Mark said,
Things that suck about metro in general (even though I like it overall):

Although the article talks about Windows 8 on the desktop in general, my comment in which you replied to specifically states that I was talking about metro (the start screen)

Mark said,

Although the article talks about Windows 8 on the desktop in general, my comment in which you replied to specifically states that I was talking about metro (the start screen)

simple wait for an app in metro to help you do it like IOS... problem solve.

benalvino said,
when you know how file system works then you might understand... uninstalling stuffs takes less than 2 mins... and you need to go through protocols and permission doing uninstalling... so why do you want to queue?

Knowing how the file system works is completely irrelevant to the end user. Queuing is used for installing apps so there's no reason it can't be used for uninstalling them. It really is that simple.

If you want to argue that black is white then feel free but don't expect to be taken seriously. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by opposing a logical and user friendly feature.

Mark said,
Things that suck about metro in general (even though I like it overall):
-
I find myself simply going back to the start screen and clicking apps as though they weren't already running simply because I've never had to worry about going to two different places to switch apps before. There's also no guarantee that the said app that you want to switch to is actually running, so why use the metro task switcher if you can just as easily open your app through the start menu? You could just waste a moment opening the metro task switcher to find that you closed the app. The problem lies in the fact that you can't always see whats in the switcher.

You're actually using the system in the intended mainstream way. The design has always been that most people would use the start screen as the primary way of both launching and switching to apps - the left switcher is kind of an extra.

I don't mind the not being able to uninstall more than one app at a time. I wasn't able to do that with any previous version of windows either.

The thing I'm annoyed at is that you can never truly get rid of an app. From Your Apps in the store, there's no way to "never see this again". If you ever tried an app once, its permanently "yours".

Would it kill them to also give some sort of indicator in the store that you already have an app or have previously downloaded an app? Or even better, a filter so you don't see apps you already have?

I suspect within a year, all the gripes will be gone, that's the great thing about software, they probably already have all these missing features added in by now.

As a developer, I'm sticking with Windows 7 for the time being for my various non-touch desktop machines! ....once Microsoft (finally!) release IE10 for Windows 7, there's really no reason to upgrade them to Win8!

GreatMarkO said,
As a developer, I'm sticking with Windows 7 for the time being for my various non-touch desktop machines! ....once Microsoft (finally!) release IE10 for Windows 7, there's really no reason to upgrade them to Win8!

Improved OS performance, lower memory usage out of the box, improved task manager, improved explorer interface, awesome file operation dialog box, etc...

Yeah no reason at all.

TCLN Ryster said,

Improved OS performance, lower memory usage out of the box, improved task manager, improved explorer interface, awesome file operation dialog box, etc...

Yeah no reason at all.

Don't forget a growing customer base. But hey what the heck, as a developer you obviously want to stay away from that for your products!

GreatMarkO said,
As a developer, I'm sticking with Windows 7 for the time being for my various non-touch desktop machines! ....once Microsoft (finally!) release IE10 for Windows 7, there's really no reason to upgrade them to Win8!

Unless you want to develop Windows Modern or Windows Phone 8 applications. I did an in place upgrade of my W7 Ultimate development workstation when W8 RTM was released and its been a very positive experience, especially the performance gain.

Most of these are the same rehashed complaints that don't need to be repeated.

In regards to the first complaint, I don't expect that MS care too much about this as Google's window layout ignores Windows design guidelines. IE manages to display more on the screen without losing the control box and title area at the top of the Window so I don't see why Chrome and Firefox can't do the same thing.

jakem1 said,
Most of these are the same rehashed complaints that don't need to be repeated.

In regards to the first complaint, I don't expect that MS care too much about this as Google's window layout ignores Windows design guidelines. IE manages to display more on the screen without losing the control box and title area at the top of the Window so I don't see why Chrome and Firefox can't do the same thing.

Even Microsoft's own apps, eg Office, have buttons in the same place, and it is so annoying when you wanted to open the file menu to be greeted with the app switcher.

jakem1 said,
In regards to the first complaint, I don't expect that MS care too much about this as Google's window layout ignores Windows design guidelines. IE manages to display more on the screen without losing the control box and title area at the top of the Window so I don't see why Chrome and Firefox can't do the same thing.

Exactly, it's Chrome's fault for invading the window chrome with their tabs. However, even then, I don't see how this is a big deal unless the tabs are super tiny, or you can't drive a mouse properly.

The only time this behaviour drives me mad is when I attempt to close a window by double-clicking the window's control icon in the top-left corner. I used to just jam my mouse into the top-left corner and double-click in previous versions, but I can't do that anymore. Yeah, it was really annoying for a while, but I've adjusted to it and it's not so bad anymore.

Chrome's tabs in comparison I would've thought wouldn't be a big deal at all.

(Please note, I don't use Chrome, so I'm not entirely sure, but based on that picture, this is not a Windows 8 failing)

xn--bya said,

Even Microsoft's own apps, eg Office, have buttons in the same place, and it is so annoying when you wanted to open the file menu to be greeted with the app switcher.

Then get used to not using the very left hand edge of the buttons and tabs. Simple.

I mean who does that anyway? When I click on tabs and buttons, I aim for somewhere roughly in the centre, not the left hand edge of the button or tab.

Seriously, some of these "things that suck" really are tenuous.

TCLN Ryster said,

Then get used to not using the very left hand edge of the buttons and tabs. Simple.

I mean who does that anyway? When I click on tabs and buttons, I aim for somewhere roughly in the centre, not the left hand edge of the button or tab.

Seriously, some of these "things that suck" really are tenuous.


I kinda see where he got that, using Chrome. You can pin tabs and those are much smaller tabs that usual. Still my solution is to put the taskbar at the top of the screen. I never run into the issue described. Plus the taskbar is more natural at the top I believe.

xn--bya said,

Even Microsoft's own apps, eg Office, have buttons in the same place, and it is so annoying when you wanted to open the file menu to be greeted with the app switcher.

Honestly, I've been using Windows 8 for months and have never ONCE had an issue of accidentally clicking on the wrong thing when reaching into the corners.

jakem1 said,
Most of these are the same rehashed complaints that don't need to be repeated.

In regards to the first complaint, I don't expect that MS care too much about this as Google's window layout ignores Windows design guidelines. IE manages to display more on the screen without losing the control box and title area at the top of the Window so I don't see why Chrome and Firefox can't do the same thing.

This is not a desktop OS. It is a hybrid OS that is basically very annoying. It is perfectly fine to complain about that.Border activation of features is OPTIONAL in my OSes for many years and basically nobody likes that. Now you're forced to use it.

I wonder why some of the guys in Neowin dilute themselves in glitter when someone
complains about the poor features implemented or removed in Windows 8.
You should act like a paying costumer, not a sad unicorn. It makes me want to puke my liver out.

Luis Mazza said,

This is not a desktop OS. It is a hybrid OS that is basically very annoying. It is perfectly fine to complain about that.Border activation of features is OPTIONAL in my OSes for many years and basically nobody likes that. Now you're forced to use it.

I wonder why some of the guys in Neowin dilute themselves in glitter when someone
complains about the poor features implemented or removed in Windows 8.
You should act like a paying costumer, not a sad unicorn. It makes me want to puke my liver out.

And I wonder why haters always object whenever someone points out that their objections are trivial. Your desktop/hybrid OS distinction is nonsensical and the fact remains that Google are responsible for the fact that their non-standard layout causes problems with the OS. There are certainly things that are worth complaining about in Windows 8 but this isn't one of them. If Chrome doesn't work properly then pick a browser that does.

TCLN Ryster said,

Then get used to not using the very left hand edge of the buttons and tabs. Simple.

I mean who does that anyway? When I click on tabs and buttons, I aim for somewhere roughly in the centre, not the left hand edge of the button or tab.

Seriously, some of these "things that suck" really are tenuous.

"You're holding it wrong"

Sinofsky's reality distortion field hard at work here it seems.

Athernar said,

"You're holding it wrong"

Sinofsky's reality distortion field hard at work here it seems.

Yeah, it's a complete distortion to say that chrome tabs are over 200 pixels wide by default, and that there are at least 195 pixels (given the OP's 5 pixel claim) that have no chance of triggering the app switcher.

ee now i dissabgree with pretty much everything in this post...oh boo hoo u moved 5px and opened that little metro bar, well lucky for u if u move ur mouse another 5px away t automaticly goes away, its not like it stays open i also liek that search is split, now its atleast organised and i can see whats been found rather than having to wade thru the small box of a start menu for it

DKAngel
oh boo hoo u moved 5px and opened that little metro bar, well lucky for u if u move ur mouse another 5px away t automaticly goes away

No it doesn't. The area it activates is very small, and the area it stays active is much larger

Scorpus said,

No it doesn't. The area it activates is very small, and the area it stays active is much larger

and the moment i move my mouse away that whole bar goes away omg another 10 more pixels to the right just friggen move your mouse away and it goes away, or hell be more accurate with ur mouse concidering the first tab is friggen massive u dont need to go nar the corner

DKAngel said,
or hell be more accurate with ur mouse concidering the first tab is friggen massive u dont need to go nar the corner

You've obviously never pinned a tab in Chrome before.

DKAngel said,
and the moment i move my mouse away that whole bar goes away omg another 10 more pixels to the right just friggen move your mouse away and it goes away, or hell be more accurate with ur mouse concidering the first tab is friggen massive u dont need to go nar the corner

Ugggh. Your spelling mistakes and just abbreviations are so annoying and you're being so annoying and inconsiderate to the fairly written article. Just never comment again.

Richio said,

Ugggh. Your spelling mistakes and just abbreviations are so annoying and you're being so annoying and inconsiderate to the fairly written article. Just never comment again.

Oh the irony in your post cracks me up.

Richio said,

Ugggh. Your spelling mistakes and just abbreviations are so annoying and you're being so annoying and inconsiderate to the fairly written article. Just never comment again.

Just give up. Now.

benalvino said,
Why it sucks its just for you... for me its perfect.

Why its perfect its just for you... for me it sucks.

n_K said,

Why its perfect its just for you... for me it sucks.

Yeah I know... that's why I said for me its perfect... just because you don't like sugar doesn't everyone should not like it... or cause you don't like something doesn't mean its a problem.

Simply learn to close the apps (drag from top to bottom) and you won't have the first issue. I've grown tired of reading endless complaints about tiny things here and there, so I didn't bother reading the article and growing restless. What I think is happening here is you're looking for the wrong answers in the wrong locations.

The criticisms raised here and perfectly legitimate.

The biggest issue with the mouse gestures for Metro apps is that they're different and often contradictory. For example, try dragging a side-snapped Metro to the top to maximise it - nothing. Or try side-snapping an Aero app to the side of the screen on a multi-monitor setup - nothing, even though it works for a Metro app. Drag a Metro app from one screen to another and it will automatically snap to the second screen, rather than stay selected.

The way Metro apps integrate into Windows 8 is terrible and the entire implementation was clearly rushed.

theyarecomingforyou said,

Watching videos on YouTube will do nothing to fix the usability and design issues with Windows 8.

No design and usability issues on my end... youtube will help you learn what you don't know. funny thing is its people who come to tech site that whine the most... I see people in curry's pc world testing windows 8 liking it and buying it. that's why it is selling well at the moment.

WizardCM said,
Simply learn to close the apps (drag from top to bottom) and you won't have the first issue.

Thanks for that tip, I was already looking for a way other then right click

benalvino said,
No design and usability issues on my end.

Then you must not be using Windows 8, because all the issues I described earlier are most certainly present and you have done nothing to refute them. Instead you engaged in immature ad hominem attacks.

Further, I certainly wasn't "whining". I was merely pointing out design flaws and inconsistencies. As for people in PC World liking it, that's like saying Jeremy Kyle must be quality TV because it's really popular.

Seahorsepip said,

Thanks for that tip, I was already looking for a way other then right click

You can still use alt+F4 to close Metro apps just like the desktop apps.

theyarecomingforyou said,
The criticisms raised here and perfectly legitimate.

Pal, you're losing your time. Average consumers Joes like WizardCM is what MS targets with this mess for an OS. They consume whatever you throw at them without second thought.

Tablet users complaining it's not 100% tablet, desktop users complaining it's not for desktop, so... Obviously is something very wrong. That's why they didn't ( and they won't ) sell Surfaces either.

Seahorsepip said,

Thanks for that tip, I was already looking for a way other then right click

Middle clicking the preview of the app also closes it.

PC EliTiST said,

Pal, you're losing your time. Average consumers Joes like WizardCM is what MS targets with this mess for an OS. They consume whatever you throw at them without second thought.

Tablet users complaining it's not 100% tablet, desktop users complaining it's not for desktop, so... Obviously is something very wrong. That's why they didn't ( and they won't ) sell Surfaces either.

Average Joe? I completely disagree there. I agree with where people are coming from, Windows 8 is in no way no-compromises, however it's important to note that it's Microsoft's first true attempt at effective touch, while maintaining compatibility. Nothing is perfect, so nothing works 100% on its first version.

This kind of crazed discussion and fighting among enthusiasts is pointless and comes to no good end.

http://wizardcm.com/post/thoughts-controversy-windows-8

Setnom said,
What are you talking about?? Windows 8 is perfect!! /s

It has it's problems, but i still think it's the best, most flexible, and most powerful OS i've ever used. Theres simply nothing else like it. Which includes OSX and many many Linux distros.

I also completely disagree about the Search feature in this article. It's MUCH improved on 8. You can search inside individual Metro apps, and it shows up to 150 results on my 2560x1600 monitors as it scales with resolution, plus it shows nice large icons i can quickly recognise. Unlike the old Start menu search that showed just 20 items and didn't scale with res or show larger icons.

Deviate_X said,

Not quite, but these issues are rather small


There's another issue I can't stand. Why the hell does the metro app I have opened on a second screen minimize when I click the start screen ?

Killing Aero glass was pointless, doing so brought zero improvements but made the UI uglier than it already was with that whole pointless touchscreen nonsense UI.

yowanvista said,
Killing Aero glass was pointless, doing so brought zero improvements but made the UI uglier than it already was with that whole pointless touchscreen nonsense UI.

Pointless? No, Microsoft saw a greater increase in mobile platforms and so power usage was a big problem that aero had. Did they have to remove it? Probably, because aero was so tightly integrated with other features like font rendering if they left it in they would have to leave it in for all devices even desktops. I'm kind of used to it now but I was hoping they'd keep flip 3D or at least give an option for enabling it for us desktop users but whatever, I can't change it (atm) so I'm going to deal with it and not rant about it till the cows come home.

ingramator said,

Pointless? No, Microsoft saw a greater increase in mobile platforms and so power usage was a big problem that aero had. Did they have to remove it? Probably, because aero was so tightly integrated with other features like font rendering if they left it in they would have to leave it in for all devices even desktops. I'm kind of used to it now but I was hoping they'd keep flip 3D or at least give an option for enabling it for us desktop users but whatever, I can't change it (atm) so I'm going to deal with it and not rant about it till the cows come home.


Afaik Aero Glass doesn't drain battery life since the rendering is managed by the GPU. Windows 8 isn't even designed to make the desktop experience better but instead to promote a tablet market that Microsoft is far behind, they're trying to compete with Apple by sacrificing a perfect desktop OS in the process. Windows 8 has an identity crisis and full screen Metro apps, what a waste of space on a large PC screen.. Utterly pointless unless they want to force everyone to blindly switch to underpowered tablets powered by their touchscreen OS.

As a Desktop user and a User of real applications like Cinema 4D, Adobe CS and Corel Draw, I can say that 8 is a huge step back. In order for it to gain the usefulness I had in 7, I need to use a 3rd party app just to turn off some of the nonsense that I will never use but keeps popping up since I have no use or need for the the dumbed down, non drag and drop enabled Windows 8 "Metro" Modern UI, Apps. Skydrive and Mail through a browser makes the usability of the Metro versions seem like a bad joke. The hot corners while using Multiple monitors gets real old real fast.

try making the desktop Theme black.. all of a sudden, min/max/close gets washed out and forget the titles.. they are gone and then you get this nappy gray for the out of focus windows. I don't want fruity colors and non Windows 8 apps in the new Start look horrific. So much wasted space. MS could have given us an option if we were not on a tablet, touch screen LCD or all in one PC. There are no all in one PC's that can match the power of my computer for speed which I need for rendering and with no use for the "Metro" Apps, touch is not even a thought.

ingramator said,

Pointless? No, Microsoft saw a greater increase in mobile platforms and so power usage was a big problem that aero had. Did they have to remove it? Probably, because aero was so tightly integrated with other features like font rendering if they left it in they would have to leave it in for all devices even desktops. I'm kind of used to it now but I was hoping they'd keep flip 3D or at least give an option for enabling it for us desktop users but whatever, I can't change it (atm) so I'm going to deal with it and not rant about it till the cows come home.

yowanvista said,
Killing Aero glass was pointless, doing so brought zero improvements but made the UI uglier than it already was with that whole pointless touchscreen nonsense UI.

Very well said. It just further support the supposition that Windows-8 was designed with touch-screen centric tablets for fickle consumers in mind and "who cares" about laptop and desktop users, including the business community. Even worse was when MS decided to give installers NO choice on the UI they want to use--some arrogance. Now, if one wants the "Windows-7 experience" with whatever advantages Windows-8 has to offer, one has to install some third-party software as an overlay---ridiculous.

yowanvista said,
Killing Aero glass was pointless, doing so brought zero improvements but made the UI uglier than it already was with that whole pointless touchscreen nonsense UI.

I'm not suggesting that Microsoft did kill Aero for battery life, but even with hardware accelerated rendering in WDM, Aero transparency sucked battery like a starved vampire whore >.>

In power settings, when you enabled power saving mode, it would disable transparency. This lead to much improved batter life. It's worth testing on your own if you have the time, but it does make an enormous difference.

If you look into how a graphics card calculates transparencies, you'll understand why it still sucks power hard >.< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_compositing is a good place to start

articuno1au said,

I'm not suggesting that Microsoft did kill Aero for battery life, but even with hardware accelerated rendering in WDM, Aero transparency sucked battery like a starved vampire whore >.><

Yeah but the point of the editorial is Windows 8 flaws on the desktop PC. I don't think the relatively small power drained by Aero matters on a desktop PC. You twont need to buy a better PSU because of Aero ...

I think the user should have the choice. What was so bad about Aero ? I kinda liked it actually.

yowanvista said,
Killing Aero glass was pointless, doing so brought zero improvements but made the UI uglier than it already was with that whole pointless touchscreen nonsense UI.

after moving from w8 beta back to my copy of w7, i can honestly say i miss metro

articuno1au said,

I'm not suggesting that Microsoft did kill Aero for battery life, but even with hardware accelerated rendering in WDM, Aero transparency sucked battery like a starved vampire whore >.>

In power settings, when you enabled power saving mode, it would disable transparency. This lead to much improved batter life. It's worth testing on your own if you have the time, but it does make an enormous difference.

If you look into how a graphics card calculates transparencies, you'll understand why it still sucks power hard >.< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_compositing is a good place to start

agreed, but what "power drain" do us desktop users have to worry about? none remember hes talking Desktop PC, states it several times in article. I thought it was a well written and unbiased opinion, instead of the normal win8 rants. Give us Desktop users a CHOICE MS.....