Low-end Windows Phones won't run Angry Birds or Tango [Update]

The last major update to Windows Phone before Apollo arrives on the scene – Windows Phone 7.5 Refresh, formerly known as ‘the Tango update’ – brings with it minor improvements for higher-end devices, but some of its best tricks are hidden beneath the surface, optimising the OS for a buttery-smooth user experience on a class of entry-level handsets that are new to the Windows Phone ecosystem.

New devices such as Nokia’s Lumia 610 hit their low price points through the use of fewer premium materials, cheaper components and lower specifications. We’ve known for some time that these lower-cost devices would require some compromise on the part of the user – as we’ve previously reported, some features available in better specified handsets (such as fast app switching and Bing Local Scout) are not available on the cheapest devices, specifically those with just 256MB of RAM.

Microsoft has already admitted that up to 5% of apps currently on the Windows Phone Marketplace will not install on these lower end devices, and there was some concern when it emerged that one app that won’t work on such handsets was Microsoft’s own Skype app. But it seems that things are actually worse than that.

WindowsPhoneApps.es notes that many other well-known and popular apps simply won’t install on the Lumia 610 (and likely on other Windows Phones with 256MB of RAM). Among those apps that refuse to install are the Tango video-calling app, PES 2012 and everyone’s favourite, Angry Birds.

While it appears that Microsoft’s efforts to maintain a ‘premium’ user experience on entry-level handsets have largely paid off, the cost to end-users of being unable to run some of the most popular apps and games on their devices may simply be too high for some. The situation also raises questions about fragmentation in Windows Phone in very practical terms, highlighting the compromises that Microsoft, its retail partners and its customers are facing in balancing up-front cost with longer-term practicalities.

With Windows Phone 8 around the corner, and the apparent likelihood that existing devices won’t be eligible for an update to WP8, Microsoft could end up having to manage three ‘tiers’ in its ecosystem, with its newest and most magnificent devices running the new OS, but with its existing handsets providing two levels of performance under Windows Phone 7.5 Refresh.

This could get very messy.

Update: Various sources, including WPCentral, are reporting that Rovio is working on a version of Angry Birds that is optimised for lower-end handsets with 256MB of RAM, such as the Nokia Lumia 610. It's not clear if this will result in Rovio having to maintain two separate versions of the app, or if the new 'optimised for 256MB' version will also replace the version currently provided to devices with more RAM. Thanks to Sraf and brent3000 for letting us know.


Source: WindowsPhoneApps.es via WMPoweruser | Image via Nokia

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How can the "Update" for this article still be unaware of the story posted ON Neowin where it was stated that some apps currently were not compatible and that Microsoft was working with these developers to improve things and make them compatible?? No offense, but this is the sort of thing that gets frustrating. This story was and IS inaccurate.

My moms over 2 year old Samsung Android phone runs Angry Birds beautifully well

I said it before that these WP's low specs are going to come back and bite end users on their butts and WP fans were, "WP is so optimized it doesn't need high end hardware"...wheres your god now?

Sonne said,
My moms over 2 year old Samsung Android phone runs Angry Birds beautifully well

I said it before that these WP's low specs are going to come back and bite end users on their butts and WP fans were, "WP is so optimized it doesn't need high end hardware"...wheres your god now?

This has nothing to do with the OS being optimized. This has everything to do with individual apps not being optimized. Angry Birds has not received an update since before WP7.5 was released, and even then there are occasional performance hiccups. When they care to fix those issues, then it will almost certainly resolve the marketplace requirement for 512 MB, which they clearly do not need. I would honestly be surprised if it even needs more than 256 MB now, rather than the fact that their marketplace (app store) designation has not changed simply because they have not released any updates. Even if they simply recompiled their code for Mango, it would run faster, but they have not.

Where's your brain?

Microsoft will ever get it. The phone market is in the hands of Google and Apple. If they want to shine then they will have to stop this type of actions.

Some of these Apps were developed knowing they had 512mb of RAM to work, and if they haven't been adjusted to shave down memory or reduce FPS for the lower end devices, they will have problems running.

Ask the developers for an Update that runs on the lower specifications.


Seriously, if you write a game that depending on 300mb of RAM to hold Assets, or not having to drop rendering frames to hit 20-30fps and then a new device comes out that doesn't even have 300mb of RAM and needs to drop 1 or 2 render frames a second due to the slower processor, the game is not going to run.

It really is just this simple.

Try running some of these Apps on a 256mb Android device. Good luck. (This is why a lot of the low end brands like ZTE Android devices are still locked on 2.1 as the memory changes in 2.2 don't work well with lower than 512mb of RAM, or the lower resolution screens.)


So look for updates to these Apps, as 99.999% can be easily adjusted to run fine on a the newer low end devices.


Microsoft would not have even considered allowing the lower end devices unless they knew that virtually all Apps would be able to run on the lower specifications.

WP7 is already the least demanding smartphone OS, running with 512mb of RAM and 1ghz on average and running circles around iPhone and Android with 1gb of RAM and dual and even quad core processors.

If Windows 7 desktop can run with 512mb faster than Android can, I'm pretty sure Microsoft is not worried about WP7 being able to compete in the low end device performance market.

An optimized version of angry birds is already being worked on and I would imagine all these other apps that don't currently run will sooner than later, they just have to optimised for tango. Tango has not been made available yet to the majority of wp handsets, If folk just waited and were patient with things you will see that most of these apps will soon be optimised for tango.

Why do companies always cheap out on RAM? It's extremely cheap, and limiting RAM hurts performance the most by far, a slower processor is barely noticeable compared to low RAM. it's sickening.

The situation also raises questions about fragmentation in Windows Phone in very practical terms, highlighting the compromises that Microsoft, its retail partners and its customers are facing in balancing up-front cost with longer-term practicalities.

sounds familiar.

I imagine that almost all of these problems will be solved when we move to WP8.

In particular, Angry Birds is very poorly written for the WP. I am addicted to Angry Birds on iOS and WP, but to choose a winner would be easy: the iOS version.

This has nothing to do with the phone itself, and it has everything to do with how it was coded: uncaringly. I suspect that once WP8 is released, a new version of Angry Birds will finally be ported over in the old one's place that will perform significantly better.

As for the Tango video app, which I do not use, I imagine it's simply because they have not allowed the marketplace to put it on 256 MB. I further suspect that if an advanced user were to sideload the app, then it would probably work pretty well.

With Windows Phone 8 around the corner, and the apparent likelihood that existing devices won't be eligible for an update to WP8, Microsoft could end up having to manage three ‘tiers' in its ecosystem, with its newest and most magnificent devices running the new OS, but with its existing handsets providing two levels of performance under Windows Phone 7.5 Refresh.
This is a bit of a silly statement. Microsoft just killed off WP7 from the marketplace, and now people are expecting them to support Mango, Tango and Apollo simultaneously, for the foreseeable future? In the worst case, the Tango update is going to be pushed to devices this summer (even on AT&T) and they can therefore only support two ecosystems (device/memory restrictions will continue to be a separate issue for now on).

It will kill the platform if they stop there and I hope that Microsoft knows this. They are not in a position where they can throw away customers (like Apple). And finally, we already know that the app ecosystem will run on WP8, which implies backwards compatibility as long as new hardware features are not used.

So, until we actually know something one way or the other, people really need to stop assuming one end, and declaring it as though it seems like a natural fit without good reason. The only reason that people believe all WP7 phones won't run WP8 is because Microsoft hasn't denied the rumor that says they won't. On the flip side, Microsoft just invested a boat load of money to bring people into the ecosystem with the various LTE phones (still Mango with updates for LTE), and Tango-based phones. More importantly to me, the less that people accept such a fate for all WP7 phones, the less incentive Microsoft has to do it. I will be furious if my Lumia 900 is stuck with Mango once Apollo is released, and Microsoft will have failed their fragmentation claims (hardware is, and will always be a cause for fragmentation; the OS itself does not have to be).

Let's just wait until the June announcement before we start making claims that are based on not denying a rumor.

I'd just like to point out AGAIN that Microsoft stated quite some time ago that they were working with app and game developers to improve the experience and update their apps so that they would be able to run on lower spec'd phones AND that they believed almost all apps would be able to be able to be updated...

Don't you love the confusion in the Title.
That's when you see the true MS haters, they see Tango in the title, don't read the article and straight away start bashing away. Fragmentation, bla bla bla

Love it

So essentially these people will lose the ability to install apps altogether, and update current apps when Microsoft block market access for those not running 7.5?

Well that's a nice move Microsoft, well done. I hope the people that constantly blather on about Android fragmentation are eating a nice slice of humble pie right now because at least Android phones for which development have ceased can still access the market and install / update apps that are compatible with their phones.

No. If you'd read the article properly you'd see these phones already have the Tango OS update on them - the Tango OS update was the one designed to bring WP 7.5 to low end handsrets in the first place. It specifically state "the Tango video-calling app" - which is not a Microsoft application or an OS update, but a third party video calling solution.

~Johnny said,
No. If you'd read the article properly you'd see these phones already have the Tango OS update on them - the Tango OS update was the one designed to bring WP 7.5 to low end handsrets in the first place. It specifically state "the Tango video-calling app" - which is not a Microsoft application or an OS update, but a third party video calling solution.

Ah, my bad it seems I misread the article, sorry

Even the s40 phones can play it smoothly, not to mention the age old Nokia 5800 XpressMusic which had the really old 434mhz processor with 128MB of RAM with nHD resolution can play it smoothly without any problem then why the hell this normal spec'd phone can't play it.

But my dirt cheap Android phone, LG GT540, with only 256MB of ram ( Only 156 MB accessible ) / 600MHz single core CPU run Angry Birds just fine...

Edited by Kasteo, May 28 2012, 2:49pm :

But is it compiled code on android ?

I'm not into mobile development but from what i understand WP can only run managed code.

Kasteo said,
But my dirt cheap Android phone, LG GT540, with only 256MB of ram ( Only 156 MB accessible ) / 600MHz single core CPU run Angry Birds just fine...

I have found another GT540 owner on Neowin. Yey!

Also, Angry birds runs fine because of its GPU (which is the same as the Wildfire S). Try running Angry Birds on a Wildfire (version without a GPU) - it runs shockingly bad. Last time I checked, GT540s were going for £60 a throw (very very cheap).

LaP said,
But is it compiled code on android ?
It is most likely native code on Android phones.
LaP said,

I'm not into mobile development but from what i understand WP can only run managed code.
Managed code is Just In Time (JIT) compiled into native code on the platform that they run on. In many cases, this can give optimizations that are better than untargeted compilation, which can lead to at least similar levels of performance as "pure" native code, and theoretically better performance (garbage collection does tend to slow it down though).

Angry Birds being coded in C# has nothing to do with its performance issues. Its issues stem from the developers doing a poor job, and not releasing updates like they do on iOS and Android. To drive the point home: Angry Birds is still not written to support WP7.5 (Mango) features, which has been out since September 2011.

I suspect that they are indeed waiting for native code development in WP8, but not because it will give them some performance gains over C#. I imagine that it will allow them to share a lot of the same code across platforms, which will both simplify and speed up development. This is also probably why we haven't seen the Space version of Angry Birds on WP7, as they wait for the WP8 SDK/release.

Trying to save money on the phones by removing 256MB of RAM was a bad idea.

Reducing the material quality or saving on the display would have caused less problems and avoid negative impacts on the ecosystem.

TheCyberKnight said,
Trying to save money on the phones by removing 256MB of RAM was a bad idea.

Reducing the material quality or saving on the display would have caused less problems and avoid negative impacts on the ecosystem.

I tend to agree that it sucks, but I'm not sure that they could have reduced those components enough to drop the price as they did.

After all, HTC still charges top dollar with an LCD screen in their phones, and Samsung's material quality (including their scratch resistant screens that are extremely easy to scratch) really couldn't get much lower without the phones disintegrating in your hand, yet they still charge the same amount as the other high end phones.

The true cost of Angry Birds - the need to have a really expensive phone!

Skype I accept and hasn't it been announced it will work with time - MS are still "fixing" skype after they bought the mess that it was, but if the only apps I can't run are a few games then a lot of the market aren't going to care less.

Option 1: £200 phone without angry birds
Option 2: £500 phone with angry birds

... okay an exaggeration but you get the idea, anyone who thinks Angry Birds or PES is worth hundreds of pounds on a higher spec phone is an idiot. Isn't this really just highlighting how overpriced the whole phone market is, accept you can't play Angry Birds and save yourself loads of money.

lt8480 said,
The true cost of Angry Birds - the need to have a really expensive phone!

Skype I accept and hasn't it been announced it will work with time - MS are still "fixing" skype after they bought the mess that it was, but if the only apps I can't run are a few games then a lot of the market aren't going to care less.

Option 1: £200 phone without angry birds
Option 2: £500 phone with angry birds

... okay an exaggeration but you get the idea, anyone who thinks Angry Birds or PES is worth hundreds of pounds on a higher spec phone is an idiot. Isn't this really just highlighting how overpriced the whole phone market is, accept you can't play Angry Birds and save yourself loads of money.

Thats not how it's going to work though, people don't walk into phone stores and say 'sell me a phone so i can play angry birds'..but if it's on the app store then users are going to expect it to work. Apps like Angry Birds are always in the top charts, so its likely it will be downloaded for the fun of it... personally i think alot of the market will care.

I had Angry Birds running on the original Android phone...the HTC G1. Yea, I had a different ROM on the thing but thats what is great about Android. You can get around those stupid app/device limitations by modding the device.

Android also got a lot of slack from people bitching and moaning that their OS will not be updated (and some non android users bitching for something to do) because the OS won't fit (like Samsung with TW) Curious what the reaction will be towards WP users not getting Tango.

techbeck said,
I had Angry Birds running on the original Android phone...the HTC G1. Yea, I had a different ROM on the thing but thats what is great about Android. You can get around those stupid app/device limitations by modding the device.

Android also got a lot of slack from people bitching and moaning that their OS will not be updated (and some non android users bitching for something to do) because the OS won't fit (like Samsung with TW) Curious what the reaction will be towards WP users not getting Tango.

The post isn't talking about Tango the WP update, there's a VoIP app named Tango which is what they're talking about in the article.

techbeck said,
I had Angry Birds running on the original Android phone...the HTC G1. Yea, I had a different ROM on the thing but thats what is great about Android. You can get around those stupid app/device limitations by modding the device.

Android also got a lot of slack from people bitching and moaning that their OS will not be updated (and some non android users bitching for something to do) because the OS won't fit (like Samsung with TW) Curious what the reaction will be towards WP users not getting Tango.

No. If you'd read the article properly you'd see these phones already have the Tango OS update

It will get messy, the fact that these apps will exist on the app store on this phone people WILL try to install them.. it will fail and they wont be happy. The phone will be labeled a POS.

Uplift said,
It will get messy, the fact that these apps will exist on the app store on this phone people WILL try to install them.. it will fail and they wont be happy. The phone will be labeled a POS.

They can't try to install them at all - there's no install button for them on these devices.

~Johnny said,

They can't try to install them at all - there's no install button for them on these devices.

Fail to install / refuse to install .. my point was, they wont be able to install and they wont be happy.

It's easy to understand why they did this, every tried to play Angry Birds on a HTC Wildfire? It's quite a bit laggy in my experience and it had 384mb of Ram and that phone cost roughly £200 at launch. Nokia 610 the main aim is to have a smooth phone OS because cheap Android phones don't run that smooth. If you want to play games and top apps, get a slightly better phone.

simplezz said,
I've seen 256mb Android devices running Angry Birds. If Android can do it, why can't Windows Phone?

was the android clocked at 800mhz? Because the Lumia 610 runs at 800mhz.

Which phone? Is it running the latest and complete build of Android, or a watered down old build that's been stripped to fit in a small footprint? Reason I'm asking as this 610 is running the same version of the OS as its bigger brothers.

FalseAgent said,

was the android clocked at 800mhz? Because the Lumia 610 runs at 800mhz.

Technically... the iPod touches fit that spec bill (800 MHz single core CPU, 256 MB of RAM) and most games run fine on that.

Must be other factors in play here - GPU maybe? Or it could be an OS-specific issue. P

FalseAgent said,

was the android clocked at 800mhz? Because the Lumia 610 runs at 800mhz.

Yes I believe so. It was a tablet the one I used.

Max Norris said,
Which phone? Is it running the latest and complete build of Android, or a watered down old build that's been stripped to fit in a small footprint? Reason I'm asking as this 610 is running the same version of the OS as its bigger brothers.

It was 2.2 Froyo I think. Not stripped down. It was a while ago though remember. But there are still many similar Android tablets/phones available. Here's one running 2.3 (Gingerbread):
http://www.amazon.com/800MHz-2...ablet-Android/dp/B005DHFJC4

simplezz said,
It was 2.2 Froyo I think.

Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs.

simplezz said,
I've seen 256mb Android devices running Angry Birds. If Android can do it, why can't Windows Phone?

I think Rovio *could* update Angry Birds for WP, but they probably do not think it's worth it.

Max Norris said,

Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs.

Not really; W7 use as much and in some case less resources than Vista and W8 less than W7.
The time when a new OS needed more power are over....... more or less.

Max Norris said,

Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs.

The problem here is that you're trying to make an academic distinction simply for the sake of defending WP so you can justify this failure to yourself and make yourself feel better. Consumers won't give a **** about the technicalities you insist on harping on. All they will care about is that the Lumia 610 won't be able to run Angry Birds and Skype, while Android phones in a similar price range can.

xeleraph said,
The problem here is that you're trying to make an academic distinction simply for the sake of defending WP so you can justify this failure to yourself and make yourself feel better.

No, just justifying reading comprehension, not trying to twist things every which way so I can stroke my other OS ego. I honestly couldn't care less (made sure my phone had the specs to run the OS properly), it's just frankly amazing the lengths at which some fanboys will go to get things as convoluted as they can. If going on and on about how an outdated build of the operating system will fit in 256MB then by all means, go for it. I'll choose the up to date OS that actually cares about the quality of its performance thanks.

Fritzly said,

Not really; W7 use as much and in some case less resources than Vista and W8 less than W7.
The time when a new OS needed more power are over....... more or less.

And once again you're comparing Apples to Oranges... That may be the case for Windows, but it most certainly is not the case for Android and just about anybody should realize that...

M_Lyons10 said,

And once again you're comparing Apples to Oranges... That may be the case for Windows, but it most certainly is not the case for Android and just about anybody should realize that...

Did you read the post I replied to?
Let me help you:
"Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs."

I confuted a statement that older OSes need less memory than new ones...... simple as that......

Fritzly said,

Did you read the post I replied to?
Let me help you:
"Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs."

I confuted a statement that older OSes need less memory than new ones...... simple as that......

I'm pretty sure that I can go down to the store today and buy an iPhone 3GS (free or $1 on contract depending on carrier) that was originally released two years ago and play games like Angry Birds on the latest version of iOS.

Stetson said,

I'm pretty sure that I can go down to the store today and buy an iPhone 3GS (free or $1 on contract depending on carrier) that was originally released two years ago and play games like Angry Birds on the latest version of iOS.

You can get rid of "pretty" from "pretty sure", my girlfriend has the 3GS and it runs Angry Birds just fine.

Max Norris said,

No, just justifying reading comprehension, not trying to twist things every which way so I can stroke my other OS ego. I honestly couldn't care less (made sure my phone had the specs to run the OS properly), it's just frankly amazing the lengths at which some fanboys will go to get things as convoluted as they can. If going on and on about how an outdated build of the operating system will fit in 256MB then by all means, go for it. I'll choose the up to date OS that actually cares about the quality of its performance thanks.

We're not talking about your choice. Fanboys will prefer their choice no matter what, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by bringing up what "you'll choose". We're talking about the absurdity of the Lumia 610 not being able to run Angry Birds while just about every other Android phone in the same price range has no problems doing so, nor does the iPhone 3GS which also only has 256 MB RAM and can be upgraded to the latest iOS.

Fritzly said,

Did you read the post I replied to?
Let me help you:
"Ah, an old version of the OS. Not exactly a fair comparison. A system running an old version of an operating system taking less memory.. not exactly a surprise, the same can be said of pretty much any OS. Put ICS on it and then see how it performs."

I confuted a statement that older OSes need less memory than new ones...... simple as that......


With a completely unrelated example. You need to compare like things when attempting to confirm or refute something. Not just anything that you might be able to use to suite your needs... That's how you debate and make winning arguments. Lol.

Here's one for you: New OS's don't require more resources because the 2013 Ford Focus doesn't need more gas per mile as the 2010 Ford Focus... Lol

M_Lyons10 said,

With a completely unrelated example. You need to compare like things when attempting to confirm or refute something. Not just anything that you might be able to use to suite your needs... That's how you debate and make winning arguments. Lol.

Here's one for you: New OS's don't require more resources because the 2013 Ford Focus doesn't need more gas per mile as the 2010 Ford Focus... Lol

Please, do not confuse me ...... with you:
The original post was about OSes and I replied talking about OSes.
You are the one talking about cars.........................

They should not make phones with low memory cheap or not. All phones should be require to have 2-4gb for basic smartphone. I had a htc wildfire s had 128mb ram 70-77% of it had T-Mobile/HTC crapware. I sent it back due to memory errors. what's the point of a smartphone if you can't do anything with it?

They sent me a Samsung Exhibit II 4G not better but at least you have 1gb on board and you can use it. Now my next phone will be much better. This is my first cell so I didn't want to buy one.

Randall_Lind said,
They should not make phones with low memory cheap or not. All phones should be require to have 2-4gb for basic smartphone. I had a htc wildfire s had 128mb ram 70-77% of it had T-Mobile/HTC crapware. I sent it back due to memory errors. what's the point of a smartphone if you can't do anything with it?

They sent me a Samsung Exhibit II 4G not better but at least you have 1gb on board and you can use it. Now my next phone will be much better. This is my first cell so I didn't want to buy one.

4GB of RAM? Seriously?

My Computer only has 8GB of RAM and that's more then enough even for my power-user needs. When Smartphones -need- 4GB of RAM, there had better be a damn good reason.

Shame, as I would have thought that loading times would have been increased, rather than the application(s) not load at all.
I was looking at a 610 for my wife, but maybe not now.

yeoo_andy_ni said,
Shame, as I would have thought that loading times would have been increased, rather than the application(s) not load at all.
I was looking at a 610 for my wife, but maybe not now.

Do they even offer the 610 where you are? I could see the 710 being in North Ireland, but the 610 is more targeted at the developing world

Not really that jaw dropping. These low end handsets are aimed at the developing world and the majority of the users there aren't able to spend money on apps. The users there that can will own the higher end handsets.

As a result, if you have an app that uses a lot of RAM and you feel the need to target those users (such as your app is free and generates revenue via ads) then you'll need to downgrade parts of the experience. This isn't a shocker.

I doubt this will have any impact on their ability to get updates. We're not talking about an OS that can support an unlimited variety of hardware here. The hardware specifications are pretty well defined for Windows Phone. Additionally, the need for low end Windows Phone devices won't be dying with Windows Phone 7. They will still need to sell devices in developing markets for lower costs next year just as they do today.

Having a video calling app called Tango and 7.5 Refresh also being nicknamed "Tango" makes for a very confusing headline

Anyway, I'm very surprised Rovio can't get Angry Birds running with less then 256MB of RAM - how many assets and variables does a game like that possibly need? I find it astounding how many game developers can't fit their pocket-sized games into a quarter of gig of RAM, surely WP7 hasn't got that much of a memory overhead to make it overly difficult?

The Teej said,
Having a video calling app called Tango and 7.5 Refresh also being nicknamed "Tango" makes for a very confusing headline

Anyway, I'm very surprised Rovio can't get Angry Birds running with less then 256MB of RAM - how many assets and variables does a game like that possibly need? I find it astounding how many game developers can't fit their pocket-sized games into a quarter of gig of RAM, surely WP7 hasn't got that much of a memory overhead to make it overly difficult?

It doesn't have a big memory overhead at all, it's just that MS's app guidelines state that you shouldn't use more than 90MB, there's no hard limit on the size though so apps do go over the 90MB. When MS made Tango 256MB devices etc they used the 90MB as the base, anything that's inside that "limit" runs fine, those 5% of apps/games that use more and don't follow the guidelines are probably the ones that don't install etc.

GP007 said,

It doesn't have a big memory overhead at all, it's just that MS's app guidelines state that you shouldn't use more than 90MB, there's no hard limit on the size though so apps do go over the 90MB. When MS made Tango 256MB devices etc they used the 90MB as the base, anything that's inside that "limit" runs fine, those 5% of apps/games that use more and don't follow the guidelines are probably the ones that don't install etc.

If Angry Birds uses more than 90MB of ram, either WP isn't designed very well, or Rovio have done a very poor job because I've never seen angry birds use more than 65MB of memory on Android, and that's with just in time compilation enabled

Javik said,

If Angry Birds uses more than 90MB of ram, either WP isn't designed very well, or Rovio have done a very poor job because I've never seen angry birds use more than 65MB of memory on Android, and that's with just in time compilation enabled

It's Rovio who have done a very poor job. There are many games which run on the 256MB devices fine.

mrp04 said,

It's Rovio who have done a very poor job. There are many games which run on the 256MB devices fine.


Yes, and keep in mind that this is the first game ever released by Rovio using these tools or languages... People forget, Rovio isn't this seasoned company, they're new... Things will improve over time for stuff like this.

The Teej said,
Having a video calling app called Tango and 7.5 Refresh also being nicknamed "Tango" makes for a very confusing headline

Anyway, I'm very surprised Rovio can't get Angry Birds running with less then 256MB of RAM - how many assets and variables does a game like that possibly need? I find it astounding how many game developers can't fit their pocket-sized games into a quarter of gig of RAM, surely WP7 hasn't got that much of a memory overhead to make it overly difficult?

It is just easier to blame MS/Nokia than to blame unoptimized code. Other platforms have apps that do not run on recent devices; Siri not on the iPad 3, no problem. Siri, iPhoto not available on the iPhone 4 or my iTouch, that is OK and not fragmentation. And that is just from the company that develops both the software and the device.

mrp04 said,

It's Rovio who have done a very poor job. There are many games which run on the 256MB devices fine.

Pretty bad on them, then. Both they and Microsoft are screwing their customers it would seem.

Javik said,

Pretty bad on them, then. Both they and Microsoft are screwing their customers it would seem.

- Rovio solely are responsible for optimisation issues on WP7 AB
- MS gets blamed

...

logic fail?

Morden said,
well the original angry birds is a shame of the Marketplace - Rovio didn't even update it to have fast resume, so shame on them

Try it on other OSes; I waited forever to see Angry Birds for WP7 and with such a low market share I am thankful to have it t all.

Fritzly said,

Try it on other OSes; I waited forever to see Angry Birds for WP7 and with such a low market share I am thankful to have it t all.

when I see much better programs like feed me oil or tentacles made better, sold cheaper, support better and even reveice free content I say rovio needs to DO something not just throw a bone to us and feel happy

and no I don't want to try it on other OSes, I use WP for a reason, which is NOT angry birds :-)

Morden said,

when I see much better programs like feed me oil or tentacles made better, sold cheaper, support better and even reveice free content I say rovio needs to DO something not just throw a bone to us and feel happy

and no I don't want to try it on other OSes, I use WP for a reason, which is NOT angry birds :-)


+1

No joke.. how is some programs not running on a unit that only has 256MB a big surprise? You buy a dirt cheap phone, you're going to have to make some compromises. Although it's not for me (love my 900 thanks), I am still impressed that the phone itself runs as good as it does with such limited constraints.

Max Norris said,
No joke.. how is some programs not running on a unit that only has 256MB a big surprise? You buy a dirt cheap phone, you're going to have to make some compromises. Although it's not for me (love my 900 thanks), I am still impressed that the phone itself runs as good as it does with such limited constraints.

No excuses, I have a £90 (brand new) ZTE Skate/Orange Monte Carlo that can run ICS, Angry Birds and pretty much all the popular apps.

Just because its cheap doesn't mean its crap.

TheLegendOfMart said,

No excuses, I have a £90 (brand new) ZTE Skate/Orange Monte Carlo that can run ICS, Angry Birds and pretty much all the popular apps.

Just because its cheap doesn't mean its crap.

That phone has 512 mb ram though.

TheLegendOfMart said,
Just because its cheap doesn't mean its crap.

You'll notice that I didn't say it was crap.. I said that you may have to make some compromises.. IE you can't fit big programs in little memory. Your phone also has twice the memory as the 610.. if the 610 had 512MB it would run Angry Birds and all that too.

Max Norris said,

You'll notice that I didn't say it was crap.. I said that you may have to make some compromises.. IE you can't fit big programs in little memory. Your phone also has twice the memory as the 610.. if the 610 had 512MB it would run Angry Birds and all that too.

Still the ZTE Skate is a low end phone and this is his point.........

Fritzly said,
Still the ZTE Skate is a low end phone and this is his point.........

And still double the memory, and that is the point of this article.. low memory. You want to make a valid comparison, do it with the same specs, otherwise it means nothing.

Max Norris said,

And still double the memory, and that is the point of this article.. low memory. You want to make a valid comparison, do it with the same specs, otherwise it means nothing.

Read the title of the article again "Low end Windows phones"...................

The point of devices like the Lumia 610 is to target the low end of the market; doing that with as few limitations on the user experience as possible is the goal.

Fritzly said,
Read the title of the article again "Low end Windows phones"...................

Seriously? Read the bloody article instead of skimming. It's specifically about the 256MB memory limit on the 610. You take that same exact Lumia 610, but with 512MB just like this phone he's comparing it with.. guess what, Angry Birds will run.

If you're going to compare a phone with another operating system, show me one that's running with the same 256MB and the latest up-to-date build of the OS in question, otherwise it's just an inane comparison that means nothing. What is so f'ing hard about this to understand?

Max Norris said,

And still double the memory, and that is the point of this article.. low memory. You want to make a valid comparison, do it with the same specs, otherwise it means nothing.

Okay, sure. My dad owns a rebranded low-end phone from a nameless Chinese OEM that cost USD 130 when he bought it last year (it's probably even cheaper now). It came with Eclair, but I rooted and upgraded it to Gingerbread, and it can run Angry Birds (Rio) and Skype just fine. 256 MB RAM, 600 MHz ARMv6 CPU. Is there lag? Sure, but for the most part it's a perfectly usable phone, and Angry Birds actually runs quite smoothly except for some stuttering when loading the next level.

I don't know the specific reasons why Angry Birds and Skype refuse to run on the Lumia 610, but I suspect that Microsoft's refusal to run native code on WP has something to do with it. Either way, it just looks really bad for Microsoft's low-end smartphone strategy when an Android device with about half the Lumia 610's price tag not only has more apps, but more apps that will actually run on the phone.

Edited by xeleraph, May 28 2012, 2:29pm :

Max Norris said,

Seriously? Read the bloody article instead of skimming. It's specifically about the 256MB memory limit on the 610. You take that same exact Lumia 610, but with 512MB just like this phone he's comparing it with.. guess what, Angry Birds will run.

If you're going to compare a phone with another operating system, show me one that's running with the same 256MB and the latest up-to-date build of the OS in question, otherwise it's just an inane comparison that means nothing. What is so f'ing hard about this to understand?


That's irrelevant. The average user doesn't care about phone specs; they DO care about not being able to run popular apps like Angry Birds. The point is that other phones in the same price range don't have this issue. Both Nokia and Microsoft are to blame for this, as everybody expects modern phones to be able to run Angry Birds.

Max Norris said,
No joke.. how is some programs not running on a unit that only has 256MB a big surprise? You buy a dirt cheap phone, you're going to have to make some compromises. Although it's not for me (love my 900 thanks), I am still impressed that the phone itself runs as good as it does with such limited constraints.

Pretty sure that the iPhone 3GS can handle Angry Birds.

Max Norris said,

Seriously? Read the bloody article instead of skimming. It's specifically about the 256MB memory limit on the 610. You take that same exact Lumia 610, but with 512MB just like this phone he's comparing it with.. guess what, Angry Birds will run.

If you're going to compare a phone with another operating system, show me one that's running with the same 256MB and the latest up-to-date build of the OS in question, otherwise it's just an inane comparison that means nothing. What is so f'ing hard about this to understand?

iPhone 3GS runs the latest iOS and many apps and has only 256MB.

I agree with the OP, we know the technical reasons why the WP7 can't run Angry Birds and i know that Nokia is trying to save money but it does seem rather limiting to the device if it requires 512MB to run updates and standard apps/games, angry birds doesn't exactly push the barrier.

The thing that helps all smartphones/phones in today's market is the app environment, if there are enough apps then you can start pulling users in and keeping them in your eco-system. As the other poster has said, all that joe blogs will know is that they got a cheap phone which can't run angry birds/app here but his friends equally cheap phone can.

Max Norris said,

Seriously? Read the bloody article instead of skimming. It's specifically about the 256MB memory limit on the 610. You take that same exact Lumia 610, but with 512MB just like this phone he's comparing it with.. guess what, Angry Birds will run.

If you're going to compare a phone with another operating system, show me one that's running with the same 256MB and the latest up-to-date build of the OS in question, otherwise it's just an inane comparison that means nothing. What is so f'ing hard about this to understand?


It's Fritzly... He loves to troll these Windows Phone topics, and from his posts very rarely reads past the title...

M_Lyons10 said,

It's Fritzly... He loves to troll these Windows Phone topics, and from his posts very rarely reads past the title...

Of course for any worshipper whoever disagree with you is a troll, nothing new here.
Besides here it is straight from the article that you guys said to have read carefully:
"New devices such as Nokia's Lumia 610 hit their low price points through the use of fewer premium materials, cheaper components and lower specifications. We've known for some time that these lower-cost devices would require some compromise on the part of the user"
Devices is plural and Nokia is brought as an example of such devices.
Enjoy your blind worshipping; I will keep using my brain......

REM2000 said,

iPhone 3GS runs the latest iOS and many apps and has only 256MB.

I agree with the OP, we know the technical reasons why the WP7 can't run Angry Birds and i know that Nokia is trying to save money but it does seem rather limiting to the device if it requires 512MB to run updates and standard apps/games, angry birds doesn't exactly push the barrier.

The thing that helps all smartphones/phones in today's market is the app environment, if there are enough apps then you can start pulling users in and keeping them in your eco-system. As the other poster has said, all that joe blogs will know is that they got a cheap phone which can't run angry birds/app here but his friends equally cheap phone can.

iPhone 3GS can run the latest iOS with restrictions.

Fritzly said,

Of course for any worshipper whoever disagree with you is a troll, nothing new here.
Besides here it is straight from the article that you guys said to have read carefully:
"New devices such as Nokia's Lumia 610 hit their low price points through the use of fewer premium materials, cheaper components and lower specifications. We've known for some time that these lower-cost devices would require some compromise on the part of the user"
Devices is plural and Nokia is brought as an example of such devices.
Enjoy your blind worshipping; I will keep using my brain......


Hardly. You're a troll because of how you act. How many times do people have to explain to you the difference between a device with 512 and a device with 256??? It's not a hard thing to grasp, you're just ignoring it to troll.

M_Lyons10 said,

Hardly. You're a troll because of how you act. How many times do people have to explain to you the difference between a device with 512 and a device with 256??? It's not a hard thing to grasp, you're just ignoring it to troll.

At this point I could easily label you as a troll but I am not interested to lower myself to McCarthyism and demagoguery for rebuttal.
Is reading so hard? It seems so but ......repetita iuvant:
The article is about "low end devices" not "256 MB RAM equipped devices".

M_Lyons10 said,

Hardly. You're a troll because of how you act. How many times do people have to explain to you the difference between a device with 512 and a device with 256??? It's not a hard thing to grasp, you're just ignoring it to troll.

If anyone here is a troll it is the one blindly praising and worshipping corporation and calling everyone who doesn't agree with your opinions a troll, ie; look in the mirror

Max Norris said,

Seriously? Read the bloody article instead of skimming. It's specifically about the 256MB memory limit on the 610. You take that same exact Lumia 610, but with 512MB just like this phone he's comparing it with.. guess what, Angry Birds will run.

If you're going to compare a phone with another operating system, show me one that's running with the same 256MB and the latest up-to-date build of the OS in question, otherwise it's just an inane comparison that means nothing. What is so f'ing hard about this to understand?

Hmmm. Well my 4th Gen iPod Touch only has 256MB of memory and it seems to run Angry Birds pretty well.