Silent Xbox Live anti-piracy update is affecting legit gamers

Microsoft appears to have made an epic stuff-up in the implementation of some new security measures earlier this week. Through a silent Xbox LIVE update that required no interaction on the part of the user, Microsoft updated the security challenge tables that catch out pirated discs. While this is good in the fight against piracy, once again legitimate users are experiencing issues.

Over on the official Xbox forums, there have been numerous reports of unsupported disc or dirty disc issues (specifically with Modern Warfare 3) due to this silent update, even with legitimate store-bought copies of the game:

DCxKILLINSPREEx: Xbox had a hidden update on Wednesday to help combat pirates or something. This is affecting my legitimate Modern Warfare 3 though because it can't read it. Something needs to be done.

EBomb360: Just picked up my 4th copy, and this time, my Machine won't even recognize the disc.  Meanwhile, I slide Gears of War 3 in and it works just fine.  Somebody screwed up here, fix it.

Digitaljim: My Xbox DO NOT RUN ONLY MW3, my other games run with no problem (tested 20 until today), when try to read the disc some times says Error Reading Disc Code: 03-80-00 or Disc Not Recoignized. My copy of MW3 was exchanged on the store and again my Xbox can´t read the game, tested the disc on a friend Xbox and it run with no problems, tried the copy of my friend on my Xbox and the same errors again. Tried 3 discs and my Xbox can´t read them. What's going on Microsoft????!!!!!!

According to Xbox hacker C4eva, this is due to a file called “dae.bin” being silently updated across all Xbox LIVE connected consoles. The file, which is stored in the NAND and inaccessible to end-users, contains a set of anti-piracy verification challenges that check a certain security sector on the Xbox game disc.

Burned discs cannot properly replicate the security sector of an original disc, which contains all the correct responses to these challenges. As such they only contain one or two challenges that match the current dae.bin in the firmware. When Microsoft updates the dae.bin silently, all pirated discs return a dirty/unsupported disc error as the responses on the disc do not match the challenges sent; whereas all legitimate official discs are supposed to contain all the responses and thus still work.

The updated dae.bin only affects newer games with the newer anti-piracy measures encoded into the game disc. These newer measures are included with the new XGD3 game type that recently allowed an extra gigabyte of storage on normal Xbox 360 discs (for developers to fill, of course). Modern Warfare 3 is one of these new games that use the updated dae.bin, and it appears that Microsoft in their efforts to combat piracy have not fully ensured that the challenges work on all legitimate game discs.

Despite the stuff-ups from Microsoft that inconvenience legitimate buying gamers, the new measures seem to have successfully prevented pirates from playing their burned copies of popular new titles like MW3. Furthermore, it appears as though the new dae.bin is unique to each console and could potentially be difficult to circumvent in the quest to play pirated games on the Xbox 360 again.

In the thread on the Xbox forums, Microsoft representative Mister Fitzer said that “we are currently investigating and working closely with Activision to resolve this issue.” We sure hope that Microsoft can sort this out so that paying customers can return to gaming without unwanted errors.

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And as soon as this silent update was reported in... various forums... people were expecting false positives, accidental bans, and the like.

The nature of Microsoft's Anti-Piracy efforts are a little scattershot. They'll hit the targets, to be sure, but they'll also hit a few innocent bystaders along the way. I guess Microsoft finds it easier to deal with a few disgruntled gamers than a legion of pirates.

cyberdrone2000 said,
And as soon as this silent update was reported in... various forums... people were expecting false positives, accidental bans, and the like.

The nature of Microsoft's Anti-Piracy efforts are a little scattershot. They'll hit the targets, to be sure, but they'll also hit a few innocent bystaders along the way. I guess Microsoft finds it easier to deal with a few disgruntled gamers than a legion of pirates.


this is every XBL update. wont surprise me if again almost all claimes are fake.

htcz said,
Why? It will just be hacked again and again and again and again..........

Why waste time and money?

The ability to silently update dae.bin is one of the biggest challenges the 360 'Backup' community has faced, it's no where near as simple as other challenges that MS has introduced.

Hollow.Droid said,

The ability to silently update dae.bin is one of the biggest challenges the 360 'Backup' community has faced, it's no where near as simple as other challenges that MS has introduced.


Step 1) get xbox 360 developer kit
Step 2) ?????
Step 3) PROFIT!

Hollow.Droid said,

The ability to silently update dae.bin is one of the biggest challenges the 360 'Backup' community has faced, it's no where near as simple as other challenges that MS has introduced.


Actually yes. And it is also being said, that dae.bin is unique per console... Wonder how c4 will combat against that.

Jose_49 said,

Actually yes. And it is also being said, that dae.bin is unique per console... Wonder how c4 will combat against that.

Certain drives like the Samsung or Hitachi drives don't have the AP2.5 security check, therefore this new method doesn't work on them. All other drives including all slim consoles however do have this security measure. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

my brothers mw3 stopped reading so he tried moving the xbox while it was on now has ring grinded into the disk. He went out and bought a slim because he thought the laser had gone. Nice tactics for xmas.

LiGhTfast said,
my brothers mw3 stopped reading so he tried moving the xbox while it was on now has ring grinded into the disk. He went out and bought a slim because he thought the laser had gone. Nice tactics for xmas.

Really ? You really think this was a ploy by MS to get everybody with this problem to move their Xbox's while switched on, to scratch the disc and get them to buy a new Xbox ?

ROFLMAO !

LiGhTfast said,
my brothers mw3 stopped reading so he tried moving the xbox while it was on now has ring grinded into the disk. He went out and bought a slim because he thought the laser had gone. Nice tactics for xmas.

It's been widely known since the dawn of disc based games consoles that you DON'T move them while they're switched on, and certainly not while there's a disc in the drive. The scratched disc is his own fault, nobody elses.

And seriously, it's a case of cause and effect. He moved the console, and as he was moving it he hears a grinding sound from the disc tray. Disc comes out with a scratch. Seems pretty dumb not to connect the two events together, instead he jumps straight to faulty console and buys a new one? Also, why would his first response to a disc not reading be to MOVE the console??? Because moving the console from place A to place B has an effect on disc reading? Yeah real smart that one.

Edited by Ryster, Nov 19 2011, 12:46pm :

LiGhTfast said,
my brothers mw3 stopped reading so he tried moving the xbox while it was on now has ring grinded into the disk. He went out and bought a slim because he thought the laser had gone. Nice tactics for xmas.

Sounds like a sweet case of "user error". Microsoft thanks for the 2nd Xbox purchase. LOL

LiGhTfast said,
my brothers mw3 stopped reading so he tried moving the xbox while it was on now has ring grinded into the disk. He went out and bought a slim because he thought the laser had gone. Nice tactics for xmas.

Ah, the good ol' PEBKAC error.

is unique to each console and could potentially be difficult to circumvent in the quest to play pirated games on the Xbox 360 again.

This fragment is incomplete. There's now general jTag which is more powerful than the hack to the drives, which allow direct playback of .iso in Hard Drive without the need of protection. And it is available up to almost all Slim models.

It should say,

is unique to each console and could potentially be difficult to circumvent in the quest to play pirated games on the Xbox Live again

I have the same mw3 disk problem, thought it was my brand new copy till I read this. I have to insert the disk in and out untill it decides it wants to play. But its the same exact patteren every single time. Thanks for the info.

They should just use armed response to pirates. After a few of them are terminated, the problem will stop altogether. Then people will buy their games like they are supposed to and we won't need all this nonsense.

I'm having the problem too with MW3. Bought the console used yesterday, fixed the tray opening and played happily until today. Thought the laser was dirty because I'd opened the disc drive and that I'd have to rip it open again. Luckily I didn't. This needs fixed ASAP I spent good money on two copies of this game!

pLUSpISTOL said,
I'm having the problem too with MW3. Bought the console used yesterday, fixed the tray opening and played happily until today. Thought the laser was dirty because I'd opened the disc drive and that I'd have to rip it open again. Luckily I didn't. This needs fixed ASAP I spent good money on two copies of this game!

So why did you buy two?

Deihmos said,
There is always someone that claims that they were banned and don't have a modded xbox.

This is because it actually happens.

I always wondered why people think that because something did not happen to them it is not true.

i am immune to this AP25 stuff since i got a Samsung system and those can't do AP25 checks (older Hitachi systems are immune to since they don't support AP25 either. i believe it was Hitachi drives prior to v78 don't support AP25 but i could be a little off there)

so basically my XGD3 8.7GB backups (burned with iHASx24B series drive) should still be safe even with the newest dashboard since i can still pass all of the regular checks they had in place for ages now.

but pretty much any systems over the last 3-4 years or so do support AP25 so i think the majority will be stopped by this until they get a work around.

There is always someone that claims that they were banned and don't have a modded xbox.

well the Forza 4 ban claim (not XBox Live ban) was true as they actually admitted 100percent legit users got banned from Forza 4 online as it was posted in their official forums by a OP there.

so that's at least one recent case that is true.

my proof for that claim = http://goo.gl/6yut8

Edited by ThaCrip, Nov 20 2011, 3:01am :

iXtreme LT+ v3.0 is on the way! Yesterday, having revealed to the team yesterday an idea for countering the recent dae.bin/AP2.5 update, c4eva has today confirmed that he has in fact completely done away with the need for dae.bin/AP2.5 data. Although it's early stages, c4eva has successfully completed several tests which validate this new method and classified his solution as the “silver bullet” for AP2.5. Rather than using captured challenge results each time the dae.bin changes, the new method builds a complete set of profile data for each disc and works for all AP2.5 challenges, regardless of how the dae.bin is changed. As a result, the format of backup ISOs will be changing as the AP25 replay sector will no longer be included and the profile data will instead take its place. Though c4eva noted that it will take some development time as it's not a quick fix, both he and the team will now be putting their full efforts behind bringing this solution to life in the form of new versions of iXtreme LT+, Xbox Backup Creator, and abgx360.

c4eva has more tricks than MacGyver

so basically... it looks like MS just bought themselves some time to get through Christmas area as i don't think that fix will be out til 'at least' January if i where to guess, possibly longer.

source for that quote... http://goo.gl/Hh3mN

Edited by ThaCrip, Nov 20 2011, 4:29am :

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