Will Windows 8.1 allow users to boot to desktop?

Ever since the consumer preview of Windows 8 was available, some users of the operating system have complained that there's no way to boot to the desktop instead of the Start screen. If recently discovered information is accurate, however, that may be changing in Windows 8.1.

An examination of the twinui.dll file in Windows 8.1 (build 9364) by Microsoft Portal discovered a line of code that indicates users may be able to immediately launch into the desktop when starting Microsoft's upcoming operating system. The ability isn't yet available in leaked copies of Windows 8.1, though the code implies it's something Microsoft is at least considering.

The ability to boot directly into the desktop has been one of the most requested features for Windows 8, with some users even using workarounds to obtain the ability. So far, however, Microsoft has made no statement that it's working on such a feature. Last month, a research firm said a boot-to-desktop feature and start menu are the two options users have requested the most for Windows 8.

Source: Microsoft Portal via WinBeta | Image via Microsoft Portal

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Why can't they just let you choose if you want start menu + desktop (no metro ui) or the hybrid version. All problems solved.

Well, I'll tell you one thing, if they do move to a system with built in choice, I suspect many members' heads will simply explode.....

Clean up on aisle 8......

Dot Matrix said,

If you're launching multiple things at once, perhaps auto start is something you should look into.

If you're using auto start to launch multiple things, then booting to the desktop is something you want.

gb8080 said,

If you're using auto start to launch multiple things, then booting to the desktop is something you want.

It's only a mouse click or a button press away. Pin the tile to the number one spot, and press Enter after login. Voila.

Dot Matrix said,

It's only a mouse click or a button press away. Pin the tile to the number one spot, and press Enter after login. Voila.

Well your original condescending comment above was
- "So, I boot to the desktop... Just to press Start. >_<".
Trying to imply there was no point in booting to desktop.
But now it's "Win8 boots you to the Start Screen - just so you can press desktop".

Please stop dreaming up excuses - poor shallow ill-considered excuses - and just fix the UI the way customers have, with good reason, been asking. (See article, last sentence).

gb8080 said,

Well your original condescending comment above was
- "So, I boot to the desktop... Just to press Start. >_<".
Trying to imply there was no point in booting to desktop.
But now it's "Win8 boots you to the Start Screen - just so you can press desktop".

Please stop dreaming up excuses - poor shallow ill-considered excuses - and just fix the UI the way customers have, with good reason, been asking. (See article, last sentence).

Huh? Where am I making excuses?

If they want to save any amount of face and hope for Windows 8 to be even remotely popular, this would be a very good idea!

I'd lile to know who the dumb a** was that thought up that totally ignorant way Windows 8 starts was anyway. Idiot needs to be fired!!

If Microsoft has any sense, they will give users the ability to boot directly to the desktop. That was one of two major mistakes with windows-8. A small portion of PC users have touch-screen capability or applications that can use the Metro UI. So, when Microsoft pandered to those users, they in essence, said "tough sh__" to the rest of their users. Not nice. Not smart.

It's pretty clear and Metro on the desktop will fail miserably, it's the "MS Bob 2.0". All these colorfull full-screen rectangles on 27'' displays just do not fit.

Another dead API and services in Windows, following fate of Silverlight, WPF, "Cardspace", "NGSCB", WinFS, HailStorm, MSN Music and all .net pаsspоrt crар.

I kept saying this will happen and all the fanboys kept telling me it never will. I guess they are looking at their failings and finally going to make it smarter. Now just add the start button so I don't have to look at that ugly start screen ever again and I will upgrade. Otherwise, I am perfectly happy with Windows 7 (so is millions of millions of other users).

The first thing most people do when they login is open an app, so why not pin all of your favorite apps, websites, or folders to the Start Screen so that it's all right there for you.

Because some of us multitask. I have no interest in returning to the Start Screen time after time to open desktop programs. True, I can also create shortcuts to my favorite programs on the traditional desktop so I don't have to go back to the Start Screen. Of course, I do that already in Windows 7.

So please tell me: What does Windows 8 actually bring to the table for serious computer users? Mind you, I have no interest in apps. I run what are called programs. I mean, yeah, Windows 8 starts and shuts down faster. So what. Other than offering a tablet experience, which does not apply to my situation, what is really the point of Windows 8?

Let's get real. Microsoft is scared to death about the popularity of iPads and other touch interfaces. All the post-PC talk. I get that. But the way they did this hybrid system just seems goofy. It's like they're trying to be something they're not and have strayed from what they were good at. They should have just made 2 separate OS's. One for touch devices, one for non-touch. I don't see why that would have been so hard.

Edited by COKid, Apr 15 2013, 5:03am :

MrWhistler said
uninstall every single crap app from the start screen, who cares about dynamic apps, use something like start8 and be happy
Yeah, no..

lol ... What? "some users of the operating system have complained that"... SOME??? How about millions of engineers, designers, casual PC persons, parents and grandparents around the globe! Surface YES? It's a win. The desktop version made me buy a Mac (I hate Macs) - I just need to do my job..not waste time relearning everything.

Trust me, it's better than relearning everything after 15+ years of windows DAILY use. At least the Mac was and still is consistent with the desktop version of their OS even after 15 years .

Bottom line is : I'm tired of Microsoft trying something new, every couple of years.

Of course, you seem to be knowing nothing about using a UI for more than a decade, and then suddenly be thrown in the dark.

I hope this is true! I hate the mobile/tablet experience shoved in my damn face with Windows 8. I can see sales going up just on this feature. Add somewhat of a start menu from the desktop and Windows 8 would be a hit.

Well at least it will shut up all the cry babies who are stuck in the past.. But I'm sure they'll find something else to throw a tantrum over.. Personally I love the start screen. And don't miss the old start menu at all..

So... who's the crybaby again?

My god, why do Windows 8 fans get their panties in a bundle at the mere mention of anything bad against Windows? It's so easy to get you guys going it's laughable.

Seriously, some Neowinians need to get a life. Why don't you try to simply ignore the negative comments and move on? Do you really care what a bunch of strangers think about Windows??? If you do, then you need to look at yourself in the mirror and figure out why?

(PS. If Windows 8 is the future, I will GLADLY be stuck in the past! If you want to gleefully swallow anything Microsoft dangles in front of you, more power to ya. Some of us are just more discerning, that's all.)

Edited by COKid, Apr 14 2013, 8:27pm :

as the above post the only cry babies are the pro-win8 crowd who cant see that not everyone wants to do things their way.

we anti-win8 are asking for OPTIONS.
give us an option to go to desktop/start menu

how does that effect you YOU? you will still have the OPTION of using the startscreen.

we don't (well thanks to start8 etc ) but I mean from MS.

Do think its a nice option to have. I would appreciate it for sure, and so will most of the haters around here. Plus Microsoft takes away 1 point for the haters to spread FUD about. Even though pressing the desktop tile isn't a big deal. I never booted into my system with the start menu open.
Great they want to unite, and some of the metro features like the charms bar and app switcher are a welcome addition to the desktop. Now only if the app switcher would be a proper alternative to ALT+TAB, that would be great.
But please Microsoft, keep Modern and Desktop separated distinctively! Don't try to merge them. Using features from the other is one thing

LOL at the Win 8 apologists who have been screaming "It's never coming back, deal with it" for months on this site. The desktop isn't going away, boot-to-desktop will be implemented and I bet the Start Menu will be back by Windows 9.

Windows Nashville said,
LOL at the Win 8 apologists who have been screaming "It's never coming back, deal with it" for months on this site. The desktop isn't going away, boot-to-desktop will be implemented and I bet the Start Menu will be back by Windows 9.
Just think you then happily stay in 1995.. Enjoy..

R3DL1N3 said,
Just think you then happily stay in 1995.. Enjoy..

You better stop using anything that was invented before 2012 then. It's old so obviously it sucks.

TRC said,
You better stop using anything that was invented before 2012 then. It's old so obviously it sucks.
Agree, round wheels are so Stone Age and not cool. /s

If users want this option then that's up to them.
It's a complete waste of time complaining about the boot to start option. I mean, how many of you boot straight to the desktop and then sit there staring at it? Hopefully none of you and if any of you do then you need a serious look at yourselves.

The way i done thing sin Win7... "Boot to desktop > click program > Work. The way i work in Win8 "Boot to start > Click program > Work". Seriously folks... come on!

This just in windows 9 to ship in 12 months two versions one for Desktop / laptop / server

And one Touch based square blocky tablet version.

Just watch and see 12 months

TurboShrimp said,
This just in windows 9 to ship in 12 months two versions one for Desktop / laptop / server

And one Touch based square blocky tablet version.

Just watch and see 12 months

How much money you wanna put on that then?

Is this definitely new (i.e, not in RTM), because I seem to remember this ability being in the Dev/Consumer preview via a group policy setting... Could be a remnant of that?

That works great 'til Microsoft ends support for it, in 2015 then fully in 2020.

That will leave Windows 8 and its successors as the only supported environments for Win32 applications. So Windows 7 will cease to be an option and it will depend on whether something after 8 fixes those users' worries in some way.

My guess is it will (not necessarily by reverting changes) but Microsoft don't have much time to pull it off.

Gerowen said,
If people are unhappy with Windows 8, why not just keep Windows 7?

We do - that's why sales of Win8 and of new machines with Win8 are disappointing.

Gerowen said,
If people are unhappy with Windows 8, why not just keep Windows 7?

Maybe because knowledgeable people are aware that besides the Start screen and Metro W8 offers many, under the hood, improvements?.....

gb8080 said,

We do - that's why sales of Win8 and of new machines with Win8 are disappointing.

The reasons for the decline in sales of new PCs and Laptops are still widely open for debate. The fact is that sales of those form factors were in decline BEFORE Windows 8 was released.

I'm perfectly happy with the changes to the Xbox UI, to Office 2013 and to Windows 8. The improvements are for the better in my opinion. Looking forward to Blue

Microsoft possibly enabling the choice of desktop or start screen on boot means nothing to me, my PC is always on and only reboot for soft/hardware updates and even then I only have to tap enter to go to desktop. Still, if adding the choice appeases the Win8 moaners, less whining to read through on the forums.

Edited by ManMountain, Apr 14 2013, 4:22pm :

Face it. Windows 8 has been a complete dabacle. 6 months in and people are still talking about the Start Screen/Start Menu/Start Button, booting to the desktop, etc.

What a joke. All they had to do was release a version of 8 for desktops and lappies, and a version that comes with tablets. But no, they put out this stupid hybrid BS.

Talk about a company on a steady decline.

Sometimes perceptions IS reality folks. Microsoft had their heyday.

Not really. For someone who understands the product, then it's still trivial to set it up like that anyway with a third party tool.

But for people who don't know they can boot to the desktop with a workaround (many consumers likely don't even know 8 HAS the desktop given the advertising) or how easy it is to access - then it's an issue.

notchinese said,
Its beyond laughable that not being able to boot to the desktop would affect someone's decision to buy W8.

It is everything ELSE about windows 8 that affect someone's buying decision. It is a PoS OS -- face it.

runningnak3d said,

It is everything ELSE about windows 8 that affect someone's buying decision. It is a PoS OS -- face it.

Except that it isn't a PoS OS, so there's nothing to face.

The fact (not opinion) is that the actual OS is superior to it's predecessor. It boots quicker, it uses less resources out of the box, apps load quicker and it has some pretty cool desktop enhancements such as the new task manager and copy/move/delete dialogs. The only contentious elements are related to the new UI, and those ARE a matter for opinion. The undeniable truth that the OS itself is better, is not a matter for opinion.

TCLN Ryster said,

Except that it isn't a PoS OS, so there's nothing to face.

The fact (not opinion) is that the actual OS is superior to it's predecessor. It boots quicker, it uses less resources out of the box, apps load quicker and it has some pretty cool desktop enhancements such as the new task manager and copy/move/delete dialogs. The only contentious elements are related to the new UI, and those ARE a matter for opinion. The undeniable truth that the OS itself is better, is not a matter for opinion.

Hey you...stop making sense...we don't like your kind around here.

TCLN Ryster said,

The fact (not opinion) is that the actual OS is superior to it's predecessor.
Vista was superior to XP and we all know what happened there, now don't we?

I have Start8 installed simply because I don't want to leave the desktop if I'm starting something that isn't pinned to the taskbar.

But I still boot into the Modern UI and have the desktop tile as the default tile. I also have a healthy selection of Modern apps and often don't even bother going to the desktop for straightforward things.

I'm fine with choice so long as they don't enable these things by default. There is a large percentage of Windows 8 users who DO actually like the current setup you know, and booting directly to desktop on a tablet would be horrible.

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I love the modern UI and I believe with the right tweaks it would make a better workspace than the desktop, even for non touch. On the other hand in its current state the startscreen is annoying for non-touch users who will find little to no improvement, just something new to get used to.

IMO Microsoft should add a switch that places the hidden ui options on screen. Like add a taskbar with the charms and app switcher on it. Since that includes the start charm the start icon would be back as well. This should be the default mode for non-touch PCs.

But I guess that will not please the hardest opponents of the modern UI. A start in desktop option would be best for them. i just hope Microsoft will also make sure that this mode adds some modern UI features to the desktop environment such as search. IMO the charms should be incorporated in the desktop's taskbar if such a road is taken by MS. Especially the start, options and search charm need to be easily accessible in desktop mode.

virtorio said,
Or, boot to the desktop and click on the programs pinned to the taskbar.
Or boot to startscreen, click on the program you have pinned there, and wait until it's ready... What's the difference between going to desktop and choose a program, and going to start and choose a program. Except that the last one is now the fastest one.

Studio384 said,
Or boot to startscreen, click on the program you have pinned there, and wait until it's ready... What's the difference between going to desktop and choose a program, and going to start and choose a program. Except that the last one is now the fastest one.

Um with the taskbar, I can click along a line of icons. With the start screen, I can only click once and then a UI shift happens. I can click Outlook and immediately click other icons while Outlook loads.

Because I usually have no less than four applications (e.g. Delphi and/or Visual Studio, Photoshop, Browser and one or more in-house software utilities) open at once, and clicking on them one after another in the taskbar much faster.

And, how does adding a "Boot directly to Desktop", for those that want it, negatively affect your experience?

Dot Matrix said,
So, I boot to the desktop... Just to press Start. >_<

As the article says: "Last month, a research firm said a boot-to-desktop feature and start menu are the two options users have requested the most for Windows 8".

Just because YOU personally don't want it doesn't mean it's not a desirable option.
"The customer is always right" is still a useful way to promote goodwill and increase sales. This continuous sneering at customers does not go unnoticed.

gb8080 said,

As the article says: "Last month, a research firm said a boot-to-desktop feature and start menu are the two options users have requested the most for Windows 8".

Just because YOU personally don't want it doesn't mean it's not a desirable option.
"The customer is always right" is still a useful way to promote goodwill and increase sales. This continuous sneering at customers does not go unnoticed.

Both are redundant features. The Start Menu more so than BtD. But BtD isn't anything different than pinning your apps to the Start Screen and launching them from there. The Start Menu just breaks the whole UX Microsoft is developing.

Start Screen:
1. Press Start Key
2. Locate and Click App
3. Press Start Key
4. Locate and Click App
5. Press Start Key
6. Locate and Click App
7. Press Start Key
8. Locate and Click App

Taskbar:
1. Click App
2. Click App
3. Click App
4. Click App

Something is redundant, and it's not the Desktop.

virtorio said,
Start Screen:
1. Press Start Key
2. Locate and Click App
3. Press Start Key
4. Locate and Click App
5. Press Start Key
6. Locate and Click App
7. Press Start Key
8. Locate and Click App

Taskbar:
1. Click App
2. Click App
3. Click App
4. Click App

Something is redundant, and it's not the Desktop.

If you're launching multiple things at once, perhaps auto start is something you should look into.

virtorio said,
Start Screen:
1. Press Start Key
2. Locate and Click App
3. Press Start Key
4. Locate and Click App
5. Press Start Key
6. Locate and Click App
7. Press Start Key
8. Locate and Click App

Taskbar:
1. Click App
2. Click App
3. Click App
4. Click App

Something is redundant, and it's not the Desktop.


A huge majority of users do not launch applications in this manner. And probably fewer launch programs that take long enough that they can open three other applications simultaneously.

in any case, in your example, and what I do, is after clicking on one application that takes me to the desktop, anything else I launch from there (either taskbar or desktop), it is moronic to return to the start screen every time you need to launch a desktop application if you are already in the desktop. Anything I need on the desktop is either pinned or has a desktop shortcut, so I think your comparison is an exaggeration.

Dot Matrix said,

The Start Menu just breaks the whole UX Microsoft is developing.

Then, as Steve Jobs might have said, "You're developing it wrong".

You've changed the subject but anyway, why not listen to customers?
You can tell the change within MS from the slogans:
Win7 : "Windows 7 - I invented it".
Win8 : "Windows 8 - STFU customers we really don't care".

Chsoriano said,
...
Obviously. It was a direct response to Dot Matrix's reply "But BtD isn't anything different than pinning your apps to the Start Screen and launching them from there", because clearly it is different.

I got fairly off topic, the point I'm trying to make is that adding an option to let users go directly where they want to when they login is a good thing, and it doesn't take anything away from users (like Dot Matrix) that want to go directly to the Start Screen.

virtorio said,
Start Screen:
1. Press Start Key
2. Locate and Click App
3. Press Start Key
4. Locate and Click App
5. Press Start Key
6. Locate and Click App
7. Press Start Key
8. Locate and Click App

Taskbar:
1. Click App
2. Click App
3. Click App
4. Click App

Something is redundant, and it's not the Desktop.

Or...

Login:
Click Tile (First app)
(Desktop switches on which takes less than a second)
Click App.
Click App.
Click App. (All on the task bar)

Dot Matrix said,
. The Start Menu just breaks the whole UX Microsoft is developing.

Who cares, that's not our problem as desktop users. Tablet/phone interface with crappy web apps does us no good. And if people are going to jailbreak out of Metro with third party start menu and boot to desktop hacks anyway, MS needs to wake up and stop trying to force people to conform to their 'strategic vision' when that vision needs a trip back to the drawing board since the 1.0 fischerprice version isn't lighting the world on fire.

MVD said,

Who cares, that's not our problem as desktop users. Tablet/phone interface with crappy web apps does us no good. And if people are going to jailbreak out of Metro with third party start menu and boot to desktop hacks anyway, MS needs to wake up and stop trying to force people to conform to their 'strategic vision' when that vision needs a trip back to the drawing board since the 1.0 fischerprice version isn't lighting the world on fire.

There is nothing wrong with the Metro Start Screen on the desktop. It works wonderfully on large monitors and doesn't restrict the user to a cramped menu full of non descript folders.

virtorio said,
Got to love your way of "I say something, so therefore it must apply to every other user" way to writing.

Not every user is going to have things their way unless they use open source. How are we to carry things forward without changes like this?

I provided a use case (and have provided others in the past) where the current model doesn't carry anything forward for certain users.

And for the record, I'm not bitching because I hate Microsoft, I actually like it when they succeed. I know four people that have brought laptops in the last few months, two of them have since installed Windows 7, and the other two brought Macs after trying Windows 8 in the store.

virtorio said,
I provided a use case (and have provided others in the past) where the current model doesn't carry anything forward for certain users.

And for the record, I'm not bitching because I hate Microsoft, I actually like it when they succeed. I know four people that have brought laptops in the last few months, two of them have since installed Windows 7, and the other two brought Macs after trying Windows 8 in the store.


I would offer a reply, but you said it sufficiently well yourself:
virtorio said,
Got to love your way of "I say something, so therefore it must apply to every other user" way to writing.

I said certain users, not all users, and I'm talking about adding an option to open the Desktop directly for those that want it, not making it compulsory for everyone, so not quite the same is it?

virtorio said,
Obviously. It was a direct response to Dot Matrix's reply "But BtD isn't anything different than pinning your apps to the Start Screen and launching them from there", because clearly it is different.

I got fairly off topic, the point I'm trying to make is that adding an option to let users go directly where they want to when they login is a good thing, and it doesn't take anything away from users (like Dot Matrix) that want to go directly to the Start Screen.


That's fair - I also disagree that they are exactly the same (process-wise), however the impact to one's workflow is based on how willing they are to adapt. I have become accustomed to the start screen, and am liking it more, but to account for other types of users, I think that MS should have given an option to bypass the start screen and perhaps leave the start menu.

For my use, when I am on my desktop, I am in "Desktop" mode >95% but on my Surface Pro, it is more evenly split, depending on what I am doing. In general I like the Start Screen, but think that there should be more options for its use (particularly important for desktop/laptop users with no touch screens).

virtorio said,
Start Screen:
1. Press Start Key
2. Locate and Click App
3. Press Start Key
4. Locate and Click App
5. Press Start Key
6. Locate and Click App
7. Press Start Key
8. Locate and Click App

Taskbar:
1. Click App
2. Click App
3. Click App
4. Click App

Something is redundant, and it's not the Desktop.

Or

login

Win+1
Win+2
Win+3
Win+4

no more redundant mouse clicking

I use the Modern Start Menu the following way, Check email in morning via Modern Email App, Play a few games if I don't wanna go into Desktop mode yet, Open Modern IE if I wanna quickly look up something. 50 percent of my time is Spent in Modern start screen, and other 50 percent is spent on Desktop Side, (Non Touch Screen Monitor too) But Windows 8.1 looks to be bringing some interesting features.

And Fix: Favorites in IE10 unpinned when switching Flash video to full screen.
There is also a tab bug in IE10 when you try to open a third tab. Sometimes is opens, sometime not.

Eh, don't see the big deal since the first thing you are going to do when you get into desktop is launch an application anyways...oh well. I could see ONLY using the desktop but then...eh, nevermind, the argument has been done to death.

You guys do know that you can pin *desktop* apps on the Start Screen, right?

Frankly I find the Start Screen much better than using the start menu. Apart from having my weather and calendar displayed at the press of a button, I can categorize my apps neatly and much faster than I could sort out my Start Menu.

Start Menu wasn't special really.. just long lists and folders to rummage through. Very tedious imho. (I'm a Ho?) lol last time I type that -_- Imo then.. Start Page is as easy as it gets. No folders, simply click the big boxes, done and done.

On one hand, it's not a big deal having to click the Desktop tile every time I login.
On the other, clicking the Desktop tile is the only thing I use the Start Screen for.

virtorio said,
On one hand, it's not a big deal having to click the Desktop tile every time I login.
On the other, clicking the Desktop tile is the only thing I use the Start Screen for.
When I log in, first thing I do is type "ou" and press enter. Outlook starts and I'm on the desktop.
Next I "WINKEY+E" and get to my documents. Every other program I use has an icon on my Desktop.

Keep dreaming. There's a reason traditional PC sales are soft,everyone wants touch and slim devices like ultrabooks and tablets. Windows 8 is adapting to what consumers want not a select few master internet complainers.

vcfan said,
Keep dreaming. There's a reason traditional PC sales are soft,everyone wants touch and slim devices like ultrabooks and tablets. Windows 8 is adapting to what consumers want not a select few master internet complainers.

PC Tablets I agree with you, actually I have been using them since 2002 although as a replacement for my laptop, not my desktop; Touch? I am not particularly interested in it, I use the pen and hand writing all the time therefore, for me, is just a plus.

You're actually right.

People conveniently forget that desktop/laptop sales were still declining with Windows 7.

Windows 8 is MS adapting to what people want. MOST people want a small touch device, they have absolutely no need for a large desktop computer or even a heavy laptop. People want slim Ultrabooks and tablets. They want a simple device to browse the net and consume content. Tablet sales are increasing rapidly, and desktop/laptop sales have been declining for years

I will always have a need for a desktop PC, but people like us need to realise this is NOT what the majority of people want or need!

With everything going mobile these days, desktop sales will rapidly decline. Who needs a desktop when a laptop can do everything with the advantage of being able to take it anywhere.

Desktops will remain for gamers and workstations. Laptops are way more expensive than an even-speced desktop, but the mobility factor makes up for it.

Conventional laptops will still be here for a while, and convertible tablets are the future imo. Pure tablets will be good for everyday tasks like mail, web and light gaming.

Next: Running Start menu and modern apps in a window, so we don't need modernmix.
And an option to enable Areo tranparent.

Luke777 said,
Next: Running Start menu and modern apps in a window, so we don't need modernmix.
And an option to enable Areo tranparent.
Just search for the aero.theme files from the Windows 8 Release Preview, they work also on Windows 8 RTM.

I think it needs to be done, the Start Page isnt anything revolutionary, just a big tedious start menu. I would never have wanted to boot into my start menu and I dont want to boot into the start page - unless Im on a tablet and only want basic features, and id probably choose an Android tablet for that as its cheaper. I use Windows on my PC because my PC is powerful and needs something that utilises it and gives a good detailed interface, not a basic Win 8 one.

It's called a CHOICE. Give users the ability to CHOOSE which way to boot. Metro or start menu.
Personally, I don't see the need for the icon metro, unless you have a touch screen, but that is MY personal preference. Some may want the metro UI, but HOPEFULLY MS is giving users a CHOICE.

naap51stang said,
It's called a CHOICE. Give users the ability to CHOOSE which way to boot. Metro or start menu.
Personally, I don't see the need for the icon metro, unless you have a touch screen, but that is MY personal preference. Some may want the metro UI, but HOPEFULLY MS is giving users a CHOICE.

3rd party programs any one?

Mikeffer said,

3rd party programs any one?

Problem with third party hacks that enable or emulate start menu is they're just that - hacks. MS can patch them out in the next auto update simply by removing dependent code. MS needs to provide a first party option. Not to mention a lot of people arent computer savvy and don't even know how to install x86 programs,

Guess what - if MS made a native start menu a download option in Metro, what do you think the #1 download in the Metro store would be?

Finally, it looks like Microsoft have woken up from their delirious dream of every desktop user owning a touch screen.

Or even wanting one... Using touch on a desktop computer is often a miserable experience, speaking of ergonomics. I'd also go crazy about a 20" display having smudges across the entire screen. It's more jarring than a little 4" display having it.

I don't think the majority of windows
users care about or truly want touch screens! This tablet fad will pass just like furbies. It is cool at first but then people will move on. A mouse is arguably superior to a touch screen. You can't play games with a touch screen either. Using a mouse is much more precise and quicker such as when doing things like Photoshop and doing real work. The touch screen fad will pass. A mouse is for work, a touch screen is for play.

Edited by Atomic Wanderer Chicken, Apr 14 2013, 4:24pm :

Well, somehow Steven Sinofsky sold everyone on the idea that Windows 8 still offers a first class experience using a traditional mouse or touchpad. I can't wait until Ballmer realizes the fool Sinofsky made of people and fires him.

lctb51 said,
I don't think the majority of windows
users care about or truly want touch screens! This tablet fad will pass just like furbies. It is cool at first but then people will move on. A mouse is arguably superior to a touch screen. You can't play games with a touch screen either. Using a mouse is much more precise and quicker such as when doing things like Photoshop and doing real work. The touch screen fad will pass. A mouse is for work, a touch screen is for play.

Yeah they also said the mouse was a toy compared to keyboard input. Computers change, get used to it.

a1ien said,
Well, somehow Steven Sinofsky sold everyone on the idea that Windows 8 still offers a first class experience using a traditional mouse or touchpad. I can't wait until Ballmer realizes the fool Sinofsky made of people and fires him.

Steven was fired because he DID NOT want to ship the crap formally known as Metro. He knew it had no business on the desktop, and he went against the grain. Everyone knows if you go against the grain at Microsoft, you either get fired, or you are forced to quit.

a1ien said,
Well, somehow Steven Sinofsky sold everyone on the idea that Windows 8 still offers a first class experience using a traditional mouse or touchpad. I can't wait until Ballmer realizes the fool Sinofsky made of people and fires him.


Sinofsky left ages ago.

onedrummer2401 said,

Yeah they also said the mouse was a toy compared to keyboard input. Computers change, get used to it.

B.S. you weren't even around when that transition happened, and the mouse wasn't forced it was optionaL. there is also far more bandwidth in a mouse and keyboard than poking at a screen with a finger. Touch is great for tablets and horizontal surfaces but the ergonomics fail for vertical touch and that's why for example Steve Jobs avoided touch based laptops - they said a lot of testing and found peoples arms just got too tired too quickly trying to be productive with a vertical touchscreen.

But mostly people just aren't going to pay the price premium for expensive touch monitors and laptops, and they're also nothing new, the industry has tried to push the touch monitor gimmick for decades, its flopping now just like it did 10 yrs ago.

The only thing that's CHANGING is people buying less PCs overall, but MS forcing a tablet interface down everyone's throats is only killing PC sales faster.

MVD said,
B.S. you weren't even around when that transition happened, and the mouse wasn't forced it was optionaL.

No BS about it, way back when during the DOS to Windows switch (especially once 95 rolled around), you had two choices.. embrace the mouse or stay with DOS and continue telling yourself that GUI's were a fad and wouldn't last.. was a fair number of people on FidoNet who thought that way for example. That said, the mouse and touch aren't in the same league, one is certainly not going to replace the other any time soon on desktops... but it's not shoved down your throat either, you can still use a mouse just fine. Just because something's full screen doesn't make it unsuitable for a mouse.

onedrummer2401 said,

Yeah they also said the mouse was a toy compared to keyboard input. Computers change, get used to it.


The problem is not change something but if the change improves users experience; some people like Metro, other do not. Simple as that...

runningnak3d said,

Steven was fired because he DID NOT want to ship the crap formally known as Metro. He knew it had no business on the desktop, and he went against the grain. Everyone knows if you go against the grain at Microsoft, you either get fired, or you are forced to quit.

There was no real reason why Sinofsky left. He finished Windows 8 and moved onto other things, as many normally do when a project is finished.

onedrummer2401 said,
Some people liked the mouse, others did not.

I had referred to runningnak3d's comment about Sinofsky's departure.

I get the mixed feelings over the menu, but never understood the complaint about this one.. first thing you're going to do once you log in is start something, not admire the desktop wallpaper.. it's a minor convenience if anything.

Max Norris said,
I get the mixed feelings over the menu, but never understood the complaint about this one.. first thing you're going to do once you log in is start something, not admire the desktop wallpaper.. it's a minor convenience if anything.

I used to stare in awe at the default XP desktop background!!

Max Norris said,
I get the mixed feelings over the menu, but never understood the complaint about this one.. first thing you're going to do once you log in is start something, not admire the desktop wallpaper.. it's a minor convenience if anything.

If you multi-boot with various operating systems like I do, it is very irritating having to click Desktop 6 times a day when I could just get booted straight to the desktop. That is what the Superbar and desktop icons are for. I can click several things at once and have them open. Not with the start screen.

xWhiplash said,
If you multi-boot with various operating systems like I do, it is very irritating having to click Desktop 6 times a day when I could just get booted straight to the desktop.

Personal preference of course, but I don't see how multi-booting has anything to do with it. I boot a few as well.. and first thing I typically click regardless of if it's Windows XP, 7 or 8, KDE, Cinnamon, or Gnome 3... it's whatever passes for the start button on that particular desktop so I can actually get to work, not admire the scenery, and personally a desktop full of icons is just a disorganized mess and far less informative/useful. Wellllllll except AwesomeWM.. but I have that set up around a console.

Max Norris said,
I get the mixed feelings over the menu, but never understood the complaint about this one.. first thing you're going to do once you log in is start something, not admire the desktop wallpaper.. it's a minor convenience if anything.

Why are people so against choices all of a sudden? Put the option in there and everybody will be happy whether they want the desktop or the start screen.

Luc2k said,
Why are people so against choices all of a sudden? Put the option in there and everybody will be happy whether they want the desktop or the start screen.

There's multiple ways to do this now.. got nothing to do with "against choice". Out of the box defaults != lack of choice. There's plenty of little tweaks/settings that don't have a "click here" option, but needs a policy/registry change, etc.. this is just one more, BFD. If you didn't have choice, you wouldn't be able to do it as it is now.

No matter what they do, there's going to be *somebody* who doesn't like it, been that way since the beginning.. they can't reasonably be expected to cater to each and every possible idea. I get it, some people prefer the extra step to launch stuff, whatever... but people make it sound like it's impossible to do. You still got people hating on 7's start menu.. and yet, you still have options. Don't like the start screen? Change it. Don't like how it boots? Change it. Hell prefer a different shell, third party or even the one from Windows 7? Change it. Choices out the wazoo.

And to top it all off, I was asking what the big deal was. I didn't say *anything* about saying MS shouldn't add the easy-mode option. Blowing it *way* out of proportion.

Luc2k said,

Why are people so against choices all of a sudden? Put the option in there and everybody will be happy whether they want the desktop or the start screen.

I do have choice. I can start a metro app, or start a desktop app - which then takes me to the desktop anyway.

xWhiplash said,

If you multi-boot with various operating systems like I do, it is very irritating having to click Desktop 6 times a day when I could just get booted straight to the desktop. That is what the Superbar and desktop icons are for. I can click several things at once and have them open. Not with the start screen.


Why are you clicking desktop 6 times a day after starting?
May be CLICK on the PROGRAM you want to use and if it is a desktop app, desktop will automatically come up? Makes sense?

Crimson Rain said,

Why are you clicking desktop 6 times a day after starting?
May be CLICK on the PROGRAM you want to use and if it is a desktop app, desktop will automatically come up? Makes sense?

Unless he's got all those shortcuts on the desktop. Plus, you missed the part about multi-boot, so that means he is re-starting his machine and ending up in Metro, then has to go to desktop.

If you're like me, I have about 7 or 8 programs open at any time during the day. Metro, for one, can't even do that. I can put those on the desktop and open them all by double-clicking each.

farmeunit said,

Unless he's got all those shortcuts on the desktop. Plus, you missed the part about multi-boot, so that means he is re-starting his machine and ending up in Metro, then has to go to desktop.

If you're like me, I have about 7 or 8 programs open at any time during the day. Metro, for one, can't even do that. I can put those on the desktop and open them all by double-clicking each.

Yep that is what I do too. I have things pinned to the taskbar so I can just click in a row what I need for the moment.

Why does it god damn matter if I prefer to use the taskbar or desktop icons vs the start screen? Maybe I need to open a file from one of my folders on my desktop instead of a program.

Dot Matrix said,

I do have choice. I can start a metro app, or start a desktop app - which then takes me to the desktop anyway.

Why force people to take those extra steps is the point, of course you know that. There's nothing in Metro for desktop users - and 99% don't have touchscreens or touch hardware so its square peg MS is trying to force into round hole. And here's the bitter truth MS will slowly find out: people won't pay the price premiums for touch monitors and laptops. Mostly because the ergonomics for vertical touch are terrible. Gorilla arm in no time, there's far more bandwidth using KB/M.

Giving users the CHOICE to boot straight to desktop, enable the classic start menu and even uninstall metro altogether would be real choice, and if Metro is so compelling then no reason to be afraid if some people opt out of it.

Sorry, you can't force change.

Crimson Rain said,

Why are you clicking desktop 6 times a day after starting?
May be CLICK on the PROGRAM you want to use and if it is a desktop app, desktop will automatically come up? Makes sense?

I use the 360 controller to boot Steam Big Picture mode, but I am still required to press the Desktop tile to actually see the Big Picture mode as only things you actually click on in the start screen makes the start screen go away. That's one reason why one could have to press the Desktop tile when they boot up the computer.

The funny thing is when people go to the desktop, the first thing they do is launch a program.

And hmm.... i wonder whats good for launching programs and has great search features... i guess something full screen with large easy to recognise icons - or even better, some kind of tiles that update - would be really good at something like that! If only Windows 8 had this and took you to this screen on boot up!! Man, MS are so stupid for not thinking of this. /s

W32.Backdoor.KillAV.E said,
The funny thing is when people go to the desktop, the first thing they do is launch a program.

And hmm.... i wonder whats good for launching programs and has great search features... i guess something full screen with large easy to recognise icons - or even better, some kind of tiles that update - would be really good at something like that! If only Windows 8 had this and took you to this screen on boot up!! Man, MS are so stupid for not thinking of this. /s

So how do you open more than 2 apps at a time on Start Screen? Just curious. Not to mention having to go back to the Start Screen or Search to open all those.

W32.Backdoor.KillAV.E said,
The funny thing is when people go to the desktop, the first thing they do is launch a program.

And hmm.... i wonder whats good for launching programs and has great search features... i guess something full screen with large easy to recognise icons - or even better, some kind of tiles that update - would be really good at something like that! If only Windows 8 had this and took you to this screen on boot up!! Man, MS are so stupid for not thinking of this. /s

So what exactly is wrong with choice?

farmeunit said,

So how do you open more than 2 apps at a time on Start Screen? Just curious. Not to mention having to go back to the Start Screen or Search to open all those.


How did you do that on Windows 7? ( assuming they're not pinned to task bar)

W32.Backdoor.KillAV.E said,
The funny thing is when people go to the desktop, the first thing they do is launch a program.

And hmm.... i wonder whats good for launching programs and has great search features... i guess something full screen with large easy to recognise icons - or even better, some kind of tiles that update - would be really good at something like that! If only Windows 8 had this and took you to this screen on boot up!! Man, MS are so stupid for not thinking of this. /s

The advantage of having the desktop booted first, is that it loads completely. Whereas having the start screen, matters not how much time you left it idle, it won't finish the desktop loading.

Hence, it's nice to have an option, because it's very probable that the program you're going to launch you have it pinned on the taskbar.

InsaneNutter said,

So what exactly is wrong with choice?

There is nothing wrong with choice, but it's at least a bit funny that one of the most requested changes for Win8 is so retarded.

The first thing you do when your pc starts is start an app. So why not pin any of those apps you start very frequently to the new start screen and start it from there.

It might be me, but I really just don't see the problem

Jose_49 said,
The advantage of having the desktop booted first, is that it loads completely. Whereas having the start screen, matters not how much time you left it idle, it won't finish the desktop loading.

Hence, it's nice to have an option, because it's very probable that the program you're going to launch you have it pinned on the taskbar.

Huh ? Desktop loading ? What ?

The desktop is sitting there its not a bmp downloading over a wan link.

Jose_49 said,

The advantage of having the desktop booted first, is that it loads completely. Whereas having the start screen, matters not how much time you left it idle, it won't finish the desktop loading.

Hence, it's nice to have an option, because it's very probable that the program you're going to launch you have it pinned on the taskbar.

They never changed the way Windows loads. You'll see the Start Screen first. Doesn't mean everything else is waiting to load until you reach the desktop. This isn't DOS-based Windows (3.x-9x/ME)! The computer still performs true multitasking!

Stoffel said,

There is nothing wrong with choice, but it's at least a bit funny that one of the most requested changes for Win8 is so retarded.

The first thing you do when your pc starts is start an app. So why not pin any of those apps you start very frequently to the new start screen and start it from there.

It might be me, but I really just don't see the problem

Maybe people are just not using the start screen? with Windows 8 you already have two extra clicks to get to the desktop, one to remove the lock screen, then another to click the desktop button.

For me personally its not the most essential thing I think should be changed in Windows 8, however I do think the option is there.

I have a couple of HTPC's running either XBMC or Windows Media Center, which auto log on and start a full screen app. This is impossible to do in Windows 8 without a 3rd party app, in addition the Metro interface can also not be controlled with a remote control, meaning you need a mouse / keyboard just to end up on Windows Media Center, even if you were to launch it from the Start Screen.

lctb51 said,
A smarter thing to do would be scaling down the ridiculously big startscreen, so you can launch apps while on the desktop. An android app screen has no place on a pc

I absolutely hate the Win 8 start screen, but where the hell do you get "Android app screen" from? Doesn't look anywhere remotely close to Android. Windows Phone 8 maybe. O r maybe that's what you meant.

LUTZIFER said,

I absolutely hate the Win 8 start screen, but where the hell do you get "Android app screen" from? Doesn't look anywhere remotely close to Android. Windows Phone 8 maybe. O r maybe that's what you meant.

The android app screen and the windows 8 start screen are the same concepts!

lctb51 said,

The android app screen and the windows 8 start screen are the same concepts!

What? The ability to click an icon and launch a program/app? Oh noes!

I'm not sure what you're smoking but other people would like to have some too. So if windows 8 start screen is the same concept as the app screen on android then I guess the android start screen is the same concept as the windows mobile app screen right? Which would then make windows 8 start screen the same concept as windows mobile app screen.

However, for you to come to that conclusion is a bit weird to me because the windows 8 start screen houses live tiles that display a lot of info. It's kinda clear you never really use windows 8 you're probably just familiar with the pictures and articles you read online. My windows 8 machines are almost alive when I plug my Microsoft account and Facebook accounts in. Everything is just there. I'm sure they will improve it over time so I'm not worried.

I only used the start menu for searching which I can still do with the start screen (windows button + type what I want + click what I want) it's pretty simple.

lctb51 said,

The android app screen and the windows 8 start screen are the same concepts!


No they aren't. The Android app screen is static. It doesn't change to show any info. Perhaps you meant home screen.

There are widget on android, that allows to show stuff like meto, time, newsfeeds ....
I've never liked much widget as they take more place than regular icons, and take some resources.