How much do Mac parts really cost?

[black_death]

An article by moi, enjoy :)

Big Macs

When Apple first started using Intel processors you could only get computers made by them and they could only be embedded inside an LCD monitor but now that's changed, or at least the embedded in a monitor part you can still only buy from Apple, anyways now you have the option of buying "more powerful" Mac Pros. When Apple released Boot Camp many "technology experts" bought Macs under the impression that Windows runs better on Macs instead of PCs but is it true? Well maybe if the Macs had better hardware that would be true but PC hardware is always released later on for Mac so the answer would be no. But these people can't just be making false claims, there must be some truth in it right? Maybe Macs cost less than PCs? Well let's see for ourselves: An entry level Mac Pro costs $2,121.00 and has:

Intel Xeon "Woodcrest" Dual Core 2.0GHz

1 GB (2 X 512MB) 667 Mhz DDR2

160GB 7,200 RPM SATA 3 Gb/s

Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT 256 MB

16x "SuperDrive"

An undefined motherboard

A case and powersupply

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebO...9dqDFdU7/2.?p=0

It also includes an Apple Keyboard and "Mighty Mouse" (you know, that tiny cube with one button and no scroll wheel?), free shipping and options for buying Mac OSX Server Edition (if only there was some kind of Operating System that was way better at being a server and free, hhhmmmmm....), some Apple Software, and AppleCare Protection Plan "world-class support" (if OSX is the world's most advanced OS, never gets viruses, and is the easist OS to use why would one need this protection plan?). Now the average person may think $2k isn’t a lot for a computer like this but let's look at how much this computer would cost if we bought the parts individually with the help of our trusted friend Newegg.com:

Intel Xeon "Woodcrest" Dual Core 2.0GHz - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819117086 $331.99 but I don't see why they're using processors intended for servers on a personal computer (Whoops thats what PC stands for! My bad, personal mac in that case, I'll never make the mistake of calling a Mac a computer a again!) when a Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4 GHz 4MB) is better and cheaper at $309.00? http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819115003

1 GB (2 X 512MB) 667 Mhz DDR2 - "Mac Memory" the DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) by Kingston http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820134374 is

$253.99; if however you bought plain old PC memory like the DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) by OCZ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820227059 it would be $105.99.

160GB 7,200 RPM SATA 3 Gb/s - The Apple page didn't seem to say the how much cache the hard drive had so let's assume it was 8mb. Anyways all the "mac storage" ones seem to be external (and they cost between $181 and $209 - these prices aren't considered in the total) http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....SubCategory=552 so we'll have to go with a PC one: all the 160 GB 7,200 RPM Hard Drives with 8mb of cache cost between $54 and $65 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....;SubCategory=14

Nvidia GeForce 7300 GT 256 MB - all the GeForce 7300 GT 256 MB cards cost between $70 and $95 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....;SubCategory=48

16x "SuperDrive" - Too bad Apple is the only company cool enough to make a "SuperDive" but since no one can make hardware like Apple can we'll have to settle for some lowly PC equivelant, mind you the CD reading and writing (R not RW) on the "SuperDrive" is only 32X instead of the standard for the past half decade of 48-52X but that’s ok it's not like Mac is the world's most advanced OS or anything. Once again Apple has left out some details so let's assume that it's an IDE drive with 2MB of cache: all of the drives with 2MB cost between $24 and $27 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....p;SubCategory=5

Motherboard - Apple doesn't mention the motherboard included but I assume the type is changed based on requirements (i.e. how many PCIe slots, how many SATA slots, etc.) and based on our requirements (1 PCIe Slot, 1 SATA slot, Socket 775, DDR2) lets try to find an equivelant: ASUS P5L-MX Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945G Micro ATX - DDR2 667 2 X 240pin slots - 1 PCIe x16 Slot - Retail: $75.99 OEM: $51.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....SubCategory=280

Other stuff: - There's also a few other things those being a case and a power supply, you can get a pretty good case for around $50 and based in this setup we'd proably need a 400W power supply now the prices are pretty varied but the majority of them cost between $20 and $50 with a few costing more and a few costing less. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList....;SubCategory=58

Total cost: Depending on many factors including whether or not you want the (overpriced) "mac" part or a PC equivelant and which OEM you get it from: $684.98 - $948.97. Wow, I wasn't even expecting that much of a price gap! Assuming Apple pays around $700 for all the parts (they get it in bulk with no markup) plus the assembling they're making over $1,400 in profit per sale!

EDIT: The cost of one Mac OSX license ($129.00) should be included as well.

Keep in mind you can also buy parts which are "open box" which will cost even less and New Egg has to make money too so they have a little markup but Apple has bulk manufacturing contracts with the companies that make the parts for their computer so they’re saving even more than any of us on parts.

I didn't post this just to **** you guys off however, I also realize that some of my facts may be wrong because I've never actually used a physical Mac, I installed Mac OSX it on my PC (legitimately of course :whistle:) so If you have something constructive to say about my article I'd like to hear it.

Edited January 2, 2007 by black_death

[markwolfe Veteran]

Breaking news: Adding up the costs of materials used to build a Lexus shows that you are charged a lot, too. Perhaps you can evaluate the "real cost of a Vista Ultimate box". The materials aren't that expensive there, either.

First, if this is a serious evaluation, the childish snide remarks should be dropped if you wanted to be taken seriously.

Secondly, you ought to compare against equivalent assembled systems available from Dell, etc.

Third, you need to consider the OS and applications into your cost evaluation.

[black_death]

Alright my bad, I'll include the cost of a $129.00 Mac OSX license into the final price. I dont know Apple's manufacturing costs but they're a large multi bullion dollar company that makes millions of computers so I assume it's not alot. As for my remarks Apple makes plenty of similar remarks and they're taken seriously, and many people make similar remarks about Microsoft and they're also taken seriously so why should keep my opnions to my self if I'm talking about Apple?

[markwolfe Veteran]

Because it is called flame-baiting, if you are pretending to be serious and unbiased, yet post these things to lure people into flaming you for them.

It is against the rules to flame-bait.

But whatever floats your boat. Welcome to Neowin.

[Neil]

By the way you need 2 Intel chips and the reason they are Xeon is because of the power they produce and are 64Bit. So before you bash make sure your facts are right.

Welcome to Neowin.

[black_death]

Sorry Mark I wasn't aware of that rule but I wasn't tyring to get people to flame me I was trying to make a point using sarcasm but I guess it can be viewed that way. And Nezer that specific part about the Xeons wasn't part of my bashing but a legitimate question, thank you for answering it. Thank you for your welcomes whether or not they were sarcastic :)

[John S. Veteran]

I stopped reading at "Mighty Mouse" (you know, that tiny cube with one button and no scroll wheel?). If you have no clue that the Mighty Mouse actually has 3 buttons and a clickable scroll ball, I seriously doubt the rest of your info.

[PyX]

If someone gets convinced by an article like that, I shoot myself.

You took all the cheapest parts for the PC, and the SuperDrive of Apple can also write DVDs and rewrite them. Maybe you should reevaluate that part, as well as the cost of Vista. The OCZ memory is a value kit - it's poor quality. You're choosing a different processor for the PC also... don't be afraid to choose the real one. You chose the worse power supply ever. Don't make me believe that for 20 bucks you get a good power supply.

Very poor article, and yeah, it's a flame-bait article too.

Thank you, come again.

Edit : The one aove me is right, you have no clue what the mighty mouse is. Keep looking.

[stadsport]

Wow, this is nothing BUT flamebait.

It also includes an Apple Keyboard and "Mighty Mouse" (you know, that tiny cube with one button and no scroll wheel?),

The Mighty Mouse is a normal mouse-shaped object with 4 buttons and a 360? scrollwheel.

free shipping and options for buying Mac OSX Server Edition (if only there was some kind of Operating System that was way better at being a server and free, hhhmmmmm....)

No, this doesn't sound biased at all. Also some people just might prefer OSX Server.

some Apple Software, and AppleCare Protection Plan "world-class support" (if OSX is the world's most advanced OS, never gets viruses, and is the easist OS to use why would one need this protection plan?).

The protection plan is for hardware.

Now the average person may think $2k isn?t a lot for a computer like this but let's look at how much this computer would cost if we bought the parts individually with the help of our trusted friend Newegg.com:

Of course any computer is going to be cheaper when you buy the parts individually on Newegg, but the Mac Pro isn't a computer made from parts you bought on Newegg. It's already built, has an OS you can't just install on a machine from Newegg (not legally at least), and has protection/support that's important to a lot of people.

Also, your component comparison isn't realistic. The Mac Pro's motherboard has 4 PCI-E slots, the one you listed has one. The Mac Pro's mobo has 8 RAM slots, the one you listed has 2. Also, the "SuperDrive" you compared to is just a CD writer, DVD reader, whereas Apple's SuperDrives are dual-layer DVD burners.

That said: Oh god, companies are making PROFIT?

[black_death]

Ok I stated in my closing paragraph that my facts may be wrong and that the reason I posted this here is to get my facts verified! I was't sure about the mighty mouse but I used it in a computer store once and thats how it felt to me. If all the responses are going to be like this then I don't know why I even bothered posting this.

EDIT: Yes I realize that some things cannot be compared but in reason!!! All those extra incomparible factors would only end up a few hundred dollars more, the point of my article is that Apple is making HUGE profit on their sales!

[stadsport]

Ok I stated in my closing paragraph that my facts may be wrong and that the reason I posted this here is to get my facts verified! I was't sure about the mighty mouse but I used it in a computer store once and thats how it felt to me. If all the responses are going to be like this then I don't know why I even bothered posting this.

EDIT: Yes I realize that some things cannot be compared but in reason!!! All those extra incomparible factors would only end up a few hundred dollars more, the point of my article is that Apple is making HUGE profit on their sales!

It just seems to me that the point of posting an article like this is to GIVE information, not get it, especially since the missing/wrong information is easily accessible from Apple's site, regardless of a disclaimer at the end that basically says "I didn't do any research so don't flame me for posting misinformation." And what's the point of making a hardware component comparison at all if you're not even comparing the same components?

Apple is making HUGE profit on their sales!

Isn't that kind of the point?

Edit: Oh yeah, you also didn't factor the cost of the mouse/keyboard on the "cheap" version you constructed on Newegg.

[bryce_56]

I configured a simular computer on Dells website and it came in at $1895 without an OS so I don't think that there is much difference. And as everyone knows you are paying a premium for a premium product when you get an apple. Of course if you bought the parts seperate and assembled it yourself it would be cheaper but if you are going to make a comparison then you should compare apples to apples. Or I guess you could say Dell is making a huge profit on the parts as well.

[black_death]

It just seems to me that the point of posting an article like this is to GIVE information, not get it, especially since the missing/wrong information is easily accessible from Apple's site, regardless of a disclaimer at the end that basically says "I didn't do any research so don't flame me for posting misinformation." And what's the point of making a hardware component comparison at all if you're not even comparing the same components?

I'm receiving information as well, I included the price of the OS, I didn't know about the mobo configuration I just assumed Apple would want it's customers not to pay for features it doesn't need, I didn't know why it used Xeons insted of normal Core 2 Duo's, maybe because I'm getting such a swarm of replies I can't incorporate all those changes quickly? And no research? How many other people have tried something like this? I spent hours working on this and you have the nerve to say I did no research because I don't know about a ****ing mouse!!

Isn't that kind of the point?

No the point is Mac users have no choice but to pay extra where as Windows and Linux users can build there own PCs for less.

Edit: Oh yeah, you also didn't factor the cost of the mouse/keyboard on the "cheap" version you constructed on Newegg.

Oh my bad, a mouse and keyboard, damn that's really gonna hike up the price isn't it? Mice and keyboards are to peoples own descresion based on how comfortable they, if I just included the price of any old keyboard and mouse then I'd get flamed for that too.

[stadsport]

I'm receiving information as well, I included the price of the OS, I didn't know about the mobo configuration I just assumed Apple would want it's customers not to pay for features it doesn't need, I didn't know why it used Xeons insted of normal Core 2 Duo's, maybe because I'm getting such a swarm of replies I can't incorporate all those changes quickly? And no research? How many other people have tried something like this? I spent hours working on this and you have the nerve to say I did no research because I don't know about a ****ing mouse!!

No the point is Mac users have no choice but to pay extra where as Windows and Linux users can build there own PCs for less.

Oh my bad, a mouse and keyboard, damn that's really gonna hike up the price isn't it? Mice and keyboards are to peoples own descresion based on how comfortable they, if I just included the price of any old keyboard and mouse then I'd get flamed for that too.

I wouldn't personally say it would take that much research. You go to Apple's Mac Pro page, look at the specs, then find the same parts on Newegg. Drop the links in Notepad, post, and you're done. It's not like you configured and compared similar systems from multiple OEMs. I have the nerve to say you didn't do any research because it's obvious you didn't. At the very least I would think you knew about a mouse, which is why I used it as an example. At any other rate you should be willing to look into expandability (ie number of RAM slots), features (SuperDrive), and maybe even what the warranty does ("protection" = hardware).

Also, whether or not a mouse and keyboard is going to severely hike up the price doesn't matter. Not including them makes you come off as neglectful, biased, or both. And yeah, you would get flamed for just including any old mouse and keyboard, as some people prefer the Apple Keyboard (which has a USB hub) and the mighty mouse (whose ball isn't found on other mice). If you're comparing apples to apples (no pun intended), I'd say it would make the most sense to either find a best match or just the same keyboard/mouse, since they're available without buying a Mac.

Comparing prebuilt Macs to home built PCs is not a fair or logical comparison, as Apple isn't competing with parts, they're competing with other OEMs who sell complete systems.

[Edrick Smith]

Alright and the biggest thing that he's missing here with saying the Mac Pro. Lets take a second here and read the Pro ending.

Pro is short for Professional you may view the definition here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional

The Mac Pro is made for the Professional High End Users. Hence the Xeon processor and other things that come configured with it. If you're a home users you get the Mac Mini or iMac if you're a Pro User again look for the word following the product name MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, or in the case of software Final Cut Pro. Apple users pay what they pay because they expect quality, I bought a Toshiba Laptop 2 years ago had nothing but problems with it and their support, I bought a MacBook Pro because i needed something that would meet my needs and work since I do presentations and video and all sorts of other things and I haven't had a single problem with it since September when I bought it.

[TogaForComfort]

Apple care is mainly harware cover so the bit about not needing it is wrong.

They also have a 1Kw Power supply not 400W.

The build quality is far superior to any PC I have ever seen. It's also consistantly good, I have upgraded/worked on hundered of these and they are always solid, I have never had so send on back after getting it out of the box, which is more than I can say about most major PC manufacturers.

The Drives have 16MB cache.

You will be hard pressed to find a comparable Motherboard with configurable PCIe slots, 6 SATA connectors (there are 2 spare) and two power sockets for high power video cards.

There is also the fact that the hardware has all been tested to ensure it all gets along with no conflicts which can cause crashes.

And I can tell you apple charge ?300 for the cases (That is a bit steep)

Yes the price is high for the sum of the individual parts, but It has long been known that Apples cost more. However if you look at what they used to charge they are now cheaper than ever. I remember when the base PowerBook G3 cost at least ?2500 now you can get the top model for ?1900

[Eric Veteran]

Breaking news: Adding up the costs of materials used to build a Lexus shows that you are charged a lot, too. Perhaps you can evaluate the "real cost of a Vista Ultimate box". The materials aren't that expensive there, either.

First, if this is a serious evaluation, the childish snide remarks should be dropped if you wanted to be taken seriously.

Secondly, you ought to compare against equivalent assembled systems available from Dell, etc.

Third, you need to consider the OS and applications into your cost evaluation.

Why do we have to compare a Mac to a pre-built Windows machine from Dell or another manufacturer? One of the benefits of using Windows is that we don't HAVE to buy a pre-built. (Unlike OS X, which works fine as long as you want the same hardware in your computer that Apple does.) Also, it's fair to exclude the OS price. Or do you think Apple charges itself a licensing fee?

[KeR]

I miss the point of this thread. You can go out and pick any electronic item and then dissect it to find out how much you could build it for, and I bet you could always do so for less then what the maker charges. What Apple did is they priced the Mac Pro competitively, just go look at a Dell that has similar specs, and you'll see it is actually more expensive.

[Eric Veteran]

Because it is called flame-baiting, if you are pretending to be serious and unbiased, yet post these things to lure people into flaming you for them.

It is against the rules to flame-bait.

But whatever floats your boat. Welcome to Neowin.

And you're unbiased, Mark?

[maniacal]

This entire thread is completely retarded. As well as about half of you, the fact that some of you can say the things you say and not realize how off the wall it is, is mind blowing...

[tcsdoc]

Apple computers have a proprietary motherboard. You can't just pick a motherboard and claim they are the same. Your spec comparison sounds like a typical Mac bashing rant.

[koppit]

HEY HEY HEY,

what about the purdy LCD?

[stadsport]

Why do we have to compare a Mac to a pre-built Windows machine from Dell or another manufacturer? One of the benefits of using Windows is that we don't HAVE to buy a pre-built. (Unlike OS X, which works fine as long as you want the same hardware in your computer that Apple does.) Also, it's fair to exclude the OS price. Or do you think Apple charges itself a licensing fee?

Apple doesn't sell individual components to build their computers, they just sell computers, like Dell and HP. Why would you compare a bunch of parts to a fully assembled car, then claim the parts are a better buy?

Apple computers have a proprietary motherboard. You can't just pick a motherboard and claim they are the same. Your spec comparison sounds like a typical Mac bashing rant.

I'm pretty sure the Mac Pro's motherboard uses an Intel 945 chipset. It's not as proprietory as you think.

[markwolfe Veteran]

Why do we have to compare a Mac to a pre-built Windows machine from Dell or another manufacturer? One of the benefits of using Windows is that we don't HAVE to buy a pre-built. (Unlike OS X, which works fine as long as you want the same hardware in your computer that Apple does.) Also, it's fair to exclude the OS price. Or do you think Apple charges itself a licensing fee?

Why? Oh, because it is reasonable thing to do? I mean comparing costs of fully assembled and loaded systems against each other seems fair. Comparing an assembled, warranteed, and loaded with software system against a series of separate and wrong parts is ludicrous. It is a farce of a comparison.

And you're unbiased, Mark?

Almost everyone has a bit of "bias". However, some people lack the ability to step back and view from a more fair (and less disdain-filled) viewpoint. I don't use Windows. I don't use OSX. I don't care which way this evaluation turns out. I don't hate Apple. I don't hate Microsoft. I merely do not use either of them.

Feel free to look through my posts (go all the way back to 2003, if you like) and see for yourself. I, on the other hand, can clearly see your feelings when it comes to Apple.

[koppit]

lol .. i see a linux signature, i think he's clearly unbiased.. :p