Eros Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 As we reported yesterday, Microsoft's "capitulation" to Google's antitrust complaint isn't as much a capitulation as the mainstream media was reporting. We inspected Microsoft's joint filing and found that Microsoft is not going to allow a complete override of the default search service in all Explorer windows, and that the company also rejects Google's concerns about performance.In response, Google said yesterday that the remedies don't go far enough. Google chief legal officer David Drummond said in a statement, "We are pleased that as a result of Google's request that the consent decree be enforced, the Department of Justice and state attorneys general have required Microsoft to make changes to Vista." Nevertheless, Drummond said that "Microsoft's current approach to Vista desktop search clearly violates the consent decree and limits consumer choice," and the proposed remedies "are a step in the right direction, but they should be improved further to give consumers greater access to alternate desktop search providers." Google did not elaborate on its expectations, although they are not difficult to piece together. Google had argued that it should be possible to disable Vista's search entirely, and Microsoft has not accommodated this demand. Search still runs, and OEMs and third-party software companies have not been given a way to schedule or disable it. Furthermore, Microsoft did not make it possible to change the search defaults in a universal way, instead keeping its search system as the default throughout most of Windows Explorer. In short, Vista's search boxes will by and large return Vista's own search results if you type text into them and hit return. Microsoft's changes appear to mostly involve links to the "default" third party program, not a drop-in replacement. Google's disappointment was only partly echoed by California Attorney General Jerry Brown, who called the remedy a step in the right direction. "This agreement?while not perfect?is a positive step towards greater competition in the software industry. It will enhance the ability of consumers to select the desktop search tool of their choice," he said. At this stage, it's unclear what recourse either Brown or Google has to change Microsoft's plan. Thomas O. Barnett, assistant Attorney General and head of the Department of Justice's Antitrust Division, said in a statement that the agreement reached between Microsoft and the DOJ "resolve[d] any issues about desktop search under the final judgments." The DOJ and all 17 state attorneys general agreed with Microsoft's proposal. "Plaintiffs are collectively satisfied that this agreement will resolve any issues the complaint may raise under the Final Judgments, provided that Microsoft implements it as promised," according to the joint filing. Source: arstechnica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillz Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Please be quiet, Google. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fahim S. MVC Posted June 21, 2007 MVC Share Posted June 21, 2007 To a degree they are right.. Microsoft should put hooks into the Operating System to allow full drop in replacement. I think that the drop in replacement should be branded in such a way that it is very clear that it is not Microsoft's responsibility if they completely suck... and if anything break warranty on the Operating System if they are replaced - kind of like buying an off the shelf computer with a 'warranty void if seal broken' sticker on the back, you break that seal and on your head be it. I just hope that should Google release an O/S (which I am sure they eventually will), that they are consistant to this request... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech_Dude_5000 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 google will you please just shut the f*ck up!!!!! i see nothing worng with vista's search.sure some improvements can be made, but nothing like this :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Why is Google not going after Apple? Dosn't Apple only allow SPOTLIGHT to search the computer? I don't remember being able to change the default in Mac OS ... and crap, I don't know, but can you install GoogleDesktop in Tiger/Leapord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fahim S. MVC Posted June 21, 2007 MVC Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) because the Apple population is so insignificant it makes virtually no difference to Google's revenue streams? no offence to Apple users - I meant insignificant in numbers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordkanin Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) I swear google. Go Away. They want Microsoft to cripple their search so that they can come in as saviors to Windows Users, and offer a nice solution to a problem that they themselves (unknownst to the users, of course) created. Google Desktop Search is akin to spyware. You find it sleezily attached to every damned installer software out there. Google is just ****ed that they can't slide their crappy toolbar onto your computer anymore, and plaster you with links to google.com, because the software that they used to do it is now obsolete. Why is Google not going after Apple? Dosn't Apple only allow SPOTLIGHT to search the computer? I don't remember being able to change the default in Mac OS ... and crap, I don't know, but can you install GoogleDesktop in Tiger/Leapord? Because Apple and Google have an "understanding". That's it. Screw google. I'm switching my homepage to live.com. I guess I'll have to write a decent digg.com gadget for it, since there isn't one. Edited June 21, 2007 by MioTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundayx Veteran Posted June 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted June 21, 2007 Microsoft: Just make a small options at first startup to select search engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordkanin Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) Microsoft: Just make a small options at first startup to select search engine. This isn't about IE. This is about the indexer built into Vista. Google is complaining that they can't completely replace a rather large feature of the shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I agree in this instance, Google should back off. because the Apple population is so insignificant it makes virtually no difference to Google's revenue streams?no offence to Apple users - I meant insignificant in numbers... That's probably the reason why Apple and Google are working so closely together lately, because the company is so insignificant. (Y) The reason why Google isn't going after Apple is probably because Mac OS X allows 3rd party vendors make input managers for Spotlight. Not sure if that's the exact reason though, and if Windows Vista allows this as well. I did read something about Apple working with Google to give Spotlight Google Search capabilities, but from what I understand those will be online oriented only. Not for searching within the OS itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritsuke Veteran Posted June 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted June 21, 2007 I seem to lose respect for Google more and more, with each passing day. :( A lot of their operations and actions seem to be getting way out of control, lately. I still like their products, but this is too much. Hampering Microsoft to make a better OS? System search isn't the same as a Media Player or Web Browser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Ark Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Microsoft: Just make a small options at first startup to select search engine. Why should they? Its their operating system. Its not like they are not allowing any third party desktop search systems on there. Google needs to chill out and try not to push crap like google desktop search. Their web search is revolutionary, I will agree with that all the way, but that doesn't mean that they should force their products into operating systems and make the OS crappier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*John* Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) Please be quiet, Google. Thank you. Whs (Y) Screw Google tbf EDIT: Anyone know if www.live.com is a decent search engine. I'm in the mood to turn my back on Google for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordkanin Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) I did read something about Apple working with Google to give Spotlight Google Search capabilities, but from what I understand those will be online oriented only. Not for searching within the OS itself. Ah. Now it makes sense. Google can do this on OSX because they're working with Apple. They can't do that on Windows, and they're afraid that if Microsoft starts to close the gap between web and desktop searching, Google will take a rather steep plunge in market share. EDIT: Anyone know if www.live.com is a decent search engine. I'm in the mood to turn my back on Google for good. I just started using it a few minutes ago. Thus far, it seems good. The image search, at the very least, is much nicer than Google's. Overall the entire thing is much more AJAXy, but in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tao muon Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 It's about time for a class-action counter-suit against Google for not allowing other search engines' results to be returned on google.com. It's completely unfair that I cannot get live or yahoo results on google's page. That is noncompetitive behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Ah. Now it makes sense.Google can do this on OSX because they're working with Apple. They can't do that on Windows, and they're afraid that if Microsoft starts to close the gap between web and desktop searching, Google will take a rather steep plunge in market share. Probably. But even on Mac OS X searching for local and network files will still run through Spotlight's own engine. Not one provided by Google. Plus I'm not entirely sure if it will make it into the OS, the article I read stated that "Apple's looking into it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+jamesyfx Subscriber² Posted June 21, 2007 Subscriber² Share Posted June 21, 2007 Microsoft made it, surely they're entitled to make it how they want. It amazes me that they get badgered by all sorts of different organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fahim S. MVC Posted June 21, 2007 MVC Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) The reason why Google isn't going after Apple is probably because Mac OS X allows 3rd party vendors make input managers for Spotlight. Not sure if that's the exact reason though, and if Windows Vista allows this as well. Input Managers in OS/X are the same as IFilters in the Windows Desktop Search solution - and that's a completely open interface, guess who makes the PDF filter for WDS (let me give you a clue: it isn't Microsoft). We are talking about for example, Apple letting Google replace the entire engine of spotlight, something which is not open to my understanding. You misunderstood my comment on the insignificance (or twisted it around), I meant the cost of the battle to replace the engine behind the desktop solution is probably easier with Microsoft (given their DOJ history), probably cheaper with Microsoft (as it would invove an Antitrust suit against Apple), the number of users they stand to gain is many times smaller than going after Microsoft - it just doesn't make sound economic sense to go after Apple. This has nothing to do with 'openness' or 'user freedom', this is all about the bottom line - and Google are showing they are as evil as any company in that respect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trong Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Changing my homepage... I always liked Live Image Search more anyways. I just haven't been able to get ahold of a @live.com email account. It feels wierd to use Live search and then go to Gmail. Don't ask me why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazket Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) That's probably the reason why Apple and Google are working so closely together lately, because the company is so insignificant. (Y) quote] That Google's company is so insignificant? ...Right. Well back to the subject: It's like always, the Bigger one has to be attacked for every little thing... When in the heck, did Microsoft announced Windows as an Open Source OS? What they have to do at Google, Inc. is shut the heck up and keep doing their jobs with zero complaints... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeWhOeLsE Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 EDIT: Anyone know if www.live.com is a decent search engine. I'm in the mood to turn my back on Google for good. I've been using ask.com for a week or so. With the new improvements i like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwolfe Veteran Posted June 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted June 21, 2007 google will you please just shut the f*ck up!!!!!i see nothing worng with vista's search.sure some improvements can be made, but nothing like this :angry: I see these angry faces and angry rhetoric posted here all the time. The problem is that if a user prefers the Google search engine, and want to use that instead of Microsoft's search, they cannot shut off or reschedule the built-in Microsoft engine that does the same task. So, users pay double the computing resources for a single task if they choose a competing product, and they don't pay double by keeping Microsoft's.Or, we can just eloquently state "shut the f*ck up!!!!!" in a mature and reasonable fashion. Why is Google not going after Apple? Dosn't Apple only allow SPOTLIGHT to search the computer? I don't remember being able to change the default in Mac OS ... and crap, I don't know, but can you install GoogleDesktop in Tiger/Leapord?Despite the mis-informed opinions of people who didn't even read the summary in the first post, this isn't because "Apple is insignificant in marketshare". The Google request is aimed directly at compliance with the US DoJ Concent Decree which is a result of a legal process. Apple has no such Consent Decree, as they weren't the subject of an anti-trust trial. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Fahim S. MVC Posted June 21, 2007 MVC Share Posted June 21, 2007 Despite the mis-informed opinions of people who didn't even read the summary in the first post, this isn't because "Apple is insignificant in marketshare". The Google request is aimed directly at compliance with the US DoJ Concent Decree which is a result of a legal process. Apple has no such Consent Decree, as they weren't the subject of an anti-trust trial. That's all. As much as I hate quoting myself, but here goes. Just to explain that is what I meant with the insignificant marketshare. You misunderstood my comment on the insignificance (or twisted it around), I meant the cost of the battle to replace the engine behind the desktop solution is probably easier with Microsoft (given their DOJ history), probably cheaper with Microsoft (as it would invove an Antitrust suit against Apple), the number of users they stand to gain is many times smaller than going after Microsoft - it just doesn't make sound economic sense to go after Apple. If you think this is all about making Microsoft comply with the DoJ, then you are deluded. Lawyer and legal encounters cost money, and therefore are never made without something to gain. The Antitrust ruling may have been used as a vehicle to take action, but to think it was the reason action was taken at all is naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Neo Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Input Managers in OS/X are the same as IFilters in the Windows Desktop Search solution - and that's a completely open interface, guess who makes the PDF filter for WDS (let me give you a clue: it isn't Microsoft). We are talking about for example, Apple letting Google replace the entire engine of spotlight, something which is not open to my understanding. Nope that's outrageous. I seriously doubt Apple, like Microsoft, would allow Google and other 3rd party vendors to completely replace Spotlight either. You misunderstood my comment on the insignificance (or twisted it around), I meant the cost of the battle to replace the engine behind the desktop solution is probably easier with Microsoft (given their DOJ history), probably cheaper with Microsoft (as it would invove an Antitrust suit against Apple), the number of users they stand to gain is many times smaller than going after Microsoft - it just doesn't make sound economic sense to go after Apple. I still think it has more to do with the fact that Apple and Google are working so closely together nowadays. Plus Apple isn't trying to make it's own web search engine, like Microsoft does, thus they're not cutting into Google's market share. In both cases they're no competition. That Google's company is so insignificant? ...Right. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3thal Veteran Posted June 21, 2007 Veteran Share Posted June 21, 2007 What a shame, Google :no: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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