TrendMicro AV Incompatibility with VISTA 64bit

[Lexonex]

Alright here is the deal. I go into the Security Center and turn ?ON? my UAC. When I try and do a scan of my PC for viruses this is what pops up. Bottom line, when having a 64bit VISTA OS and using TrendMicro AV you MUST have the UAC ?OFF? in order to scan your system.

Surely, there must be someone else out there in cyber land using VISTA 64bit using TrendMicro AV that can back me up on this. And if this person is successfully scanning their PC with TrendMicro AV on VISTA 64bit, how did you do it?

Windows Vista Home Premium

64-bit Operating System

I.E. 7 (32-bit and 64-bit)

Gateway FX510S

Intel® Pentium? D 950 CPU 3.40GHz

800 MHz FSB, 2x2MB cache non-HT EM64T

Intel (Watsonville 2) 975x Motherboard

BIOS WT97510J.15A.2039.2006.0825.0358

600-Watt power supply

4093 MB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS Graphics Card

(Sound)

Yamaha RX-V361 AV Receiver

JBL Cinema Sound Speakers CS480

Sigma Tel High Definition Auto CODEC (for 64bit Windows)

Driver Version 6.10.5405.0

Edited March 22, 2008 by Lexonex

[jmc777]

For Microsoft Windows Vista, you must temporarily disable the User Account Control (UAC) option for Vista. UAC can prevent access to your computer?s files when Trend Micro Internet Security runs a scan. Refer to How to turn off the UAC function of Windows Vista.

http://esupport.trendmicro.com/support/vie...p;id=EN-1036165

[Lexonex]

Good hunting...That's right...UAC must be "OFF".........I never turn it on.....It is OFF and will remain OFF.....

[bdhageman]

I have been using 64 Bit Vista Ultimate since it was available and there was an issue with SP1 and Trend Micro Internet Security but an update to the problem corrected it. I have the UAC turned on and have no problems at all initiating a scan or anything else with Internet Security. So this may be true for some users but not all. I am using program version 16.10.1079 with engine version 8.500.1002.

Alright here is the deal. I go into the Security Center and turn ?ON? my UAC. When I try and do a scan of my PC for viruses this is what pops up. Bottom line, when having a 64bit VISTA OS and using TrendMicro AV you MUST have the UAC ?OFF? in order to scan your system.

Surely, there must be someone else out there in cyber land using VISTA 64bit using TrendMicro AV that can back me up on this. And if this person is successfully scanning their PC with TrendMicro AV on VISTA 64bit, how did you do it?

Windows Vista Home Premium

64-bit Operating System

I.E. 7 (32-bit and 64-bit)

Gateway FX510S

Intel? Pentium? D 950 CPU 3.40GHz

800 MHz FSB, 2x2MB cache non-HT EM64T

Intel (Watsonville 2) 975x Motherboard

BIOS WT97510J.15A.2039.2006.0825.0358

600-Watt power supply

4093 MB RAM

NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GS Graphics Card

(Sound)

Yamaha RX-V361 AV Receiver

JBL Cinema Sound Speakers CS480

Sigma Tel High Definition Auto CODEC (for 64bit Windows)

Driver Version 6.10.5405.0

[Lexonex]

I'm running TrendMicro Internet Security 2008

Program Version: 16.10.1079

Engine Version: 8.500.1002

Pattern Version: 5.181.50

Perhaps if and when my Windows Automatic Update provides me with the

Vista SP1 Update, I too will be able to scan for viruses with the UAC "ON"

AND HOPEFULLY I won't lose my sound............

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Does the virus scanner run elevated? If not, right-click on it and choose "run as administrator" to see if that fixes the problem.

Or get a better virus scanner. AVG is free, and there used to be a deal to get eTrust for free as well.

[Lexonex]

Dear Lexonex,

Hello there! A pleasant day to you! My name is John from Consumer Escalation Team and I will be assisting you on this issue. To keep our records up-to-date, it is very important to RESPOND to this e-mail.

I have carefully read your email and have understood your concern.

Regarding Turning-off User Account Cotrol of WIndows Vista. This feature of Windows Vista is the same as the Suspicious Software Alarm System of Trend Micro Internet Security 2007. Turning-it off really does not harm your computer since you have this kind of feature working in your Trend Micro program. It even allows you not to have that annoying pop-up each time you install or open other programs.

Right-now we don't have any information yet if there will be a patch for that problem since it's really about WIndows Vista's permissions on the programs running in your computer. It's like Trend Micro not being allowed by Windows Vista to work normally. And for the feature to run, it's either we turn-off User Account Control or set some exceptions for other programs in User Account Control which right-now; WIndows' Vista does not give an option. If ever a patch should be created for this problem, it should be a patch from Microsoft so they can allow valid programs to run normally when User Account Control is on.

But we are not closing our options and are still testing if there is a way that the whole Trend Micro program as a whole can be permitted by WIndows Vista to run normally.

I hope I have answered your inquiries clearly.

I will patiently wait for your reply.

Please let me know if I can close this case already.

VERY IMPORTANT: In order for me to have a history of our correspondence, please do not delete the subject and the contents of this email.

Hope this proves useful and have a nice day

Best Regards,

Consumer Support Team

TrendLabs HQ, Trend Micro Incorporated Apr 12 2007, 04:12 AM

[Linkinfamous]

Murdering a pretty big security component of Windows (Letting it handle ILs) sounds like a very counterproductive thing for a piece of software that is supposed to increase your security to do. I can't say I'd feel very comfortable using a piece of 'security' software that forced me to do that.

[rtk]

Dear Lexonex,

Hello there! A pleasant day to you! My name is John from Consumer Escalation Team and I will be assisting you on this issue.

<snipped>

Regarding Turning-off User Account Cotrol of WIndows Vista. This feature of Windows Vista is the same as the Suspicious Software Alarm System of Trend Micro Internet Security 2007. Turning-it off really does not harm your computer since you have this kind of feature working in your Trend Micro program. It even allows you not to have that annoying pop-up each time you install or open other programs.

"John from Consumer Escalation" is either incompetent or clueless. UAC is **nothing** like their suspicious software alarm.

If that's the kind of support escalation, you should run... not walk... far away from this company.

[soldier1st]

trend isint as good as they used to and turning uac off is crazy as it helps protect you and alert you if something tries anything strange,use tweak uac to keep uac on but turn the prompts off.

[Lexonex]

I can see how the confusion may occur: whenever someone is presented with the ?Windows needs your permission to continue? message, it creates the impression that UAC is looking after the user, and protects the vital system settings from being destroyed or corrupted. The user is probably thinking, ?If a virus or spyware gets into my system and attempts to do something dangerous, UAC will alert me, riWrong.ong.

There is only one single ?moment of truth? when it comes to malware getting unlimited access to your system, and it occurs when you attempt to run a program you have downloaded from an unknown web site:

Vista warns you about it no matter whether UAC is in the quiet modit warns you even if the UAC is turned offed off, and even if you don?t run Vista at all: a similar message is shown by Windows XP with the latest service pack installed on it. What many users don?t realize is that if they allow the program to run just once with the full administrative privileges, it becomes the ?point of no return?: from that moment on the software is free to do whatever it wants to the computer and no UAC messages will be displayed anymore about that particular software or any changes it makeeven if UAC is fully enabled fully enabled. The software can quietly install a keyboard hook to intercept your passwords, it can get full access to your files and documents (even if you keep them encrypted with the EFS system or Bit Locker), it can install itself to autostart automatically with full administrative rights every time you log on to Vista UAC will NOT tell you anything about any of the bad things such software can do.ftware can do.

So what is the point of the ?Windows needs your permission to continue? messages then, if they don?t protect you from the They are there to protect you from yourselfct you from yourself. They are there to alert you that you are about to make some change that may have more or less significant effect on the system. They are like those ?Are you sure you really want to delete this file? messages, to keep you from inadvertently deleting a file by hitting the Del key accidentally (although even such messages are not necessary if you have the Recycle Bin set up to keep the deleted files without actually deleting them from the hard disk).

Is it dangerous to use the ?quiet? mode of UAC then? It?s only dangerous if you consider yourself as one of the potential damaging factors and want to get an extra warning when you are about to do something potentially dangerous. (Yes, ignorance is always dangerous, not just when it comes to computers). However, if you are an experienced user and have some understanding of how to manage your Windows settings properly, you can safely use the quiet mode of UAC.

http://www.tweak-uac.com/

I will contine to have UAC in the "OFF" mode....I've never had a problem of any malware/viruses/trojans/spyware whatever in the year I've been using TrendMicro.......Also, run CCleaner v2.05.555 (free) every month or two....

http://www.ccleaner.com/

Edited March 23, 2008 by Lexonex

[mad_onion]

if you're truly having this problem with UAC. it really does make more sense for you to simply change to different antivirus software. disabling UAC in order to run your antivirus decreases not increases your security.

if you have some crazy illogical problem with UAC then that's a whole other story. so which one of those is it?

[Lexonex]

No, no no?now listen. I?m not having any trouble with UAC. I think it is an annoyance and if you had read the above post, the UAC is not capable of protecting you from yourself.

When Vista first came out I sent away for the 64 bit version (arrived via separate disc) and installed it. That was at least one year ago. My AV at the time was McAfee and THEY WERE NO HELP BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT 64 BIT COMPATIBLE and would not give me a refund on my multiple year subscription. Norton (at the time) did not have anything 64 bit compatible either.

TrendMicro came through for me. I like it. Yes I can run TrendMicro AV in the background catching/blocking malware/viruses/spyware etc. with the UAC in the ?ON? mode or the ?OFF? mode. BUT, when you are ready for a full system/PC scan it will not work UNLESS you turn ?OFF? the UAC. So, I choose to keep it off permanently as opposed of going back and forth, on and off, just to do a scan. Again, if you had read the above post the UAC really does NOT PROTECT you. Your AV does. My opinion

[jamesVault]

using TrendMicro AV you MUST have the UAC OFF in order to scan your system.

protecting users by forcing them to use Windows with full administrator's rights? :D TrendMicro is bullsh1t!

[Argi]

Time to find a new AV.

[Lexonex]

Listen, I'm a home user. Admin. My PC. No one else touches it...........The ONLY user account is mine........

I'm hoping the VISTA SP1 update MAY address this......I'll report in a couple of weeks if/when I receive the SP1 through Windows Automatic Updates........

New AV? I just paid for TrendMicro Internet Security 2008......Got at least 1 year to go...........

Let me change that...I hope the SP1 DOES NOT address it...Based on my entire year of not having ANY problems running with the UAC in the "OFF" mode.....Regardless of what reputable brand of AV I had, I WOULD CONTINUE TO OPERATE WITH THE UAC IN THE "OFF" MODE....It is a useless, silly pop-up......

Edited March 23, 2008 by Lexonex

[jamesVault]

I'm hoping the VISTA SP1 update MAY address this......

SP1 can't fix a poorly written antivirus such as TrendMicro :crazy:

[mad_onion]

it doesn't matter that your the only person that uses your account. by disabling UAC all programs run with the highest privilege level so they can do anything they want. i doesn't matter that they aren't malicious they will still have unintentional flaws which hackers could exploit to gain access to your system. this is whats happens in xp. with vista with UAC on this flaws cannot affect crucial system components because the exploited software will not have access to these files. do you see? thats why you should always have it on.

[matty93]

it doesn't matter that your the only person that uses your account. by disabling UAC all programs run with the highest privilege level so they can do anything they want. i doesn't matter that they aren't malicious they will still have unintentional flaws which hackers could exploit to gain access to your system. this is whats happens in xp. with vista with UAC on this flaws cannot affect crucial system components because the exploited software will not have access to these files. do you see? thats why you should always have it on.

Hey, if you click continue it has full access anyways so it can do what it want.

But i see your point, if im just say.... browsing the web and a UAC Popup comes up for no reason i would click 'Cancel' as it proberly is some virus attempting to do things.

Oh and.. why pay for an AV - theres plenty of free ones for advanced users - If your advanced enough to turn UAC off then im surely your not dumb to get so many viruses and rootkits into your pc.

AVG Free is great for me and yes i use UAC on too, always.. its only a 1 time popup anyways.

[Lexonex]

it doesn't matter that your the only person that uses your account. by disabling UAC all programs run with the highest privilege level so they can do anything they want. i doesn't matter that they aren't malicious they will still have unintentional flaws which hackers could exploit to gain access to your system. this is whats happens in xp. with vista with UAC on this flaws cannot affect crucial system components because the exploited software will not have access to these files. do you see? thats why you should always have it on.

Okay, I never claimed to be an expert. I'm better off running VISTA with the UAC in the "ON" mode. You say so. Many others say so. I GUESS what I can do is run it and when I'm ready to do a TrendMicro system/pc scan simply turn off the UAC long enough to do a scan and after completion of scan turn it back on............Therefore, retaining the "benefits" of the UAC......Sound right?

Edited March 23, 2008 by Lexonex

[Lexonex]

-- What is User Account Control (UAC) --

UAC makes it so programs that don't need full administrative privileges don't have them to protect against unknown bugs in the programs.

It is similar to the way things are handled on UNIX/Linux and OS X.

-- Examples of how it protects --

1. Internet Surfing with programs like Internet Explorer.

If a new security hole is found that allows bad programs to load when just loading a web page, UAC prevents that bad program from complete control over the computer.

In this case since Internet Explorer runs under the Low Integrity Level that UAC provides then that bad program can only do a small number of things like mess up the IE cache folder. Your OS install, programs and data will still be safe on the hard drive.

Unfortunately it does still allow read access to your drive as explained in FAQ #7.

2. Programs that accidentally corrupt OS and program files.

For example say you have an alternative file manager and you have a folder like C:\Documents\Program Files you want to delete, if that program had a bug where it then tried to delete C:\Program Files instead, that would be prevented by UAC.

That is a little unlikely but bad data loss bugs to happen.

-- UAC FAQ --

1. There are way to many prompts, they are annoying.

True. In part because UAC was added to an OS where designing for least privilege was not a big concern for a while. As Windows develops and more programs are designed with UAC in mind there should be less prompts for normal things.

Update: This is already happening with Service Pack 1. When renaming a folder or file in a protected location the prompts have gone from 4 to 1.

2. I don't need it, I have a firewall.

A firewall won't stop things like web pages exploiting security holes in Internet Explorer.

3. I don't need it, I have antivirus/antispyware (hereon referred to as antimalware) software.

Most antimalware programs detect things using a database of known bad things.

If a bad program gets to your machine before your local database is updated they won't be found.

4. I have UAC off and haven't had any malware problems.

Just because you don't have problems with it off, doesn't mean it's useless. It's another layer of protection that is good to have as listed above.

5. I like to randomly download things and install them.

I guess UAC won't really help here though antimalware software won't help much either with installing random things.

6. I'm a power user. I download various things that can be trusted and I tweak OS settings all the time. The prompts are annoying.

In this case you can disable the prompts by opening gpedit.msc and turning them off.

You will still have some protection from things like program bugs but any bad program that decides to elevate will be able to without prompts.

7. Are there any problems with UAC?

Yes. Here are some:

A. If the purpose of a bad program is to read secure data you have that can be freely accessed by your user account without additional passwords then it can still copy that data.

Note: This is a problem without UAC too.

B. A bad program with running with the Medium Integrity Level (the default level) can still erase all your document files you have write/delete access to.

Note: This is a problem without UAC too.

The advantage with UAC here is while you still have to restore the those files from a backup, you don't have to reinstall your OS and programs too like you would otherwise.

C+. There are more problems then those. I'll have to research online a bit more to figure out what they are and a way to find to write them out.

Note: Even with it's flaws, it should still be better with UAC then without it. (How to Geek Forum)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

That is a much better description of UAC than the first one you posted. UAC is there to protect you after an application has been exploited. Think of it as a different kind of firewall, one sitting between your programs and the OS (and other users of the machine). It's there so that if IE, Firefox, Outlook, Thunderbird, AIM, etc get exploited by a remote code execution vulnerability, that exploit is limited in what it can do. It can still do bad things if the application doesn't run in Low IL (as IE and some other Windows components do), but not nearly as bad as if UAC wasn't there.

[Lexonex]

I really enjoy the forums/discussion boards...MUCH to learn.......

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Lexonex -

Could you please reply to their e-mail and send them this link?

http://brandonlive.com/2008/03/23/dont-tru...ur-pc-security/

[Lexonex]

Thank you for your email. A Service Request has been sent to a Support Agent.

Your E-Mail Address : [email protected]

CASE SENT : Sun Mar 23 11:22:26 PST 2008

First Name : Lexonex

Last Name :

Location : USA

Product : Trend Micro Internet Security

Product Version : 2008

Serial Number :

Operating System : Windows Vista Home Premium

Pattern File Number :

Internet Connection : DSL (incorrect. shoud be BroadBand)

Problem Description : Running Vista Home Premium 64 bit and have purchased and am using TrendMicro Internet Secuirty 2008. Why must I ALWAYS turn off Vista's UAC when I want to have TM scan my system/PC? Why has this issue NOT been addressed? Surely, there should be a solution by now (I have used TM AV for over a year and unable to "Scan" with the Vista's UAC in the "ON" mode).

Thanks.

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for your email. A Service Request has been created to address your concerns.

Here are the details:

Service Request Number: 1-135465882

Accepted Time: 3/23/2008 7:25:49 PM [(GMT) Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London]

Expected Response: (on or before) 3/24/2008 7:25:52 PM [(GMT) Greenwich Mean Time : Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London]

Edited March 23, 2008 by Lexonex