New Quad-Core build, decisions about GPU/Case/Mobo

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Okay, I?m about to start building a desktop for myself, going to try to keep it cheap(er) this time around so I wanted to get some opinions on some of the hardware that I can?t quite decide on. So here goeDesired Componentsts

Case: Cooler Master Stacker 830 Evolution RC-830

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16811119122

I know it?s a little on the pricey side, but I didn?t want to cut back on the case since I have to stare at it every day, and I like the fact that it has the mesh side vent, fan rack, removable mobo tray and is tool less. My question however is if there is a case that offers comparable features, but is smaller? I don?t need a full tower case, I was kind of hoping for a mid-tower case but haven?t seen any I like.

Motherboard: EVGA nForce 790i Ultra SLI DDR3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813188025

Also a little pricey, but I need it to support either SLI or CrossFire and DDR3 RAM. My other options are the Intel BOXDX38BT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121090) or the Intel BOXDX48BT2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121338) which are both slightly cheaper. I?m just not sure which motherboard would be best for my combinations.

Processor: I?ve pretty much decided on the Intel Q9450 as I feel it offers pretty good performance at an alright price. I think Core 2 Extreme would be too expensive for me.

RAM: At the moment I am looking at OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820227287

Here?s another decision point I have, I?m not sure whether to get the DDR3 1333 or DDR3 1600, I know the 1600 will be faster, but I noticed that the cheaper Intel motherboard does not support DDR3 1600? which doesn?t really matter to me, but in the event that I would like to upgrade I may want the option? which is why the other Intel and the EVGA boards are more appealing with the exception of price.

Video Card: nVidia 9800 GX2 or ATI Radeon 4870

nVidia 9800 GX2 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814130354

Radeon HD 4870 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16814129113

Here?s the biggest decision right now (besides the case)? I am not sure if the 9800 GX2 is worth the extra $130? or if I should just fork over a little extra for the GTX 280. I had heard that ATI?s CrossFire driver support was better than nVidia?s SLI support however so I was also considering their new 4870 and possibly adding another 4870 next year once the prices fall some. My question though is which board would be best suited for which card(s)? Is the EVGA better for the nVidia cards, is there a better motherboard option if I choose to go with the Radeon HD 4870? I really need help here?

PSU: Cooler Master Real Power Pro RS-750

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16817171024

I think 750W is enough for either the 9800 GX2 or the Radeon HD 4870, please correct me if I am wrong. So will this PSU suffice with any of my configurations?

To round it off, I?m getting a 22? Samsung LCD , 2 Samsung 22x DVD burners, a WD 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0GB HDD and of course all the cooling supplies.

So my primary concerns are which video card to get and with which motherboard, and what case is cheaper and comparable in features and looks to tBudgetter Stacker 830 Evolution?

Budget

I am trying to keep my spending under $2,250 (before shipping and taxes etc.) If I have to go a little over that's fine with me, but cheaper is also good. However, I am not willing to sacrifice the processor, ram, or get a lower performancTimeframe for purchasementioned.

Timeframe for purchase

I need to be ordering the parts by the end of July, so about 3 weeks. I know Intel is cutting some of the prices on their CPUs, so if the Q9450 is affected I'll be happy, or if a better CPU falls wiOverclockinglike the faster one.

Overclocking

I am not planning on overclocking so I am only going to get 2 120mm case fans (front and back), and the CrossBar fan (if I get the CM Stacker 830 Evolution). I'm not sure which CPU cooler to get though as if I remember correctly CPUs and motherboards do not come with... right?

Please, if you have any other recommendations please let me know, I haven?t built a machine for about 3 years now so don?t have much knowledge about the newer configurations. Also, if you need more information about the build please let me know. Thanks, I really appreciate your advice.

[+shift. MVC]

What are you going to be doing on this machine?

Unless you're running 2560x1600 screen resolution (which you won't be with that 22") you WON'T need SLI. You're just unnecessarily spending money. That eliminates the need for an NVIDIA chipset (which runs hotter and is more picky compared to the Intel P35/P45).

For your chipset, Intel P35 comes to mind as you are NOT overclocking, and you don't really have a NEED for SLI/Crossfire (unless you have some particular reason for it) even if you were P35 provides the same overclocking capabilities as X35/X48 but costs a lot less.

As for RAM, well you're not even overclocking, and the Q9450 runs with an FSB of 1333 which amounts to 333MHz effective, which means (since you stated you are not overclocking) DDR2-667 is the ideal RAM that you should be getting. Even if you ARE overclocking, I don't think you would need anything higher than DDR2-800 anyway.

For the PSU, I suggest a Corsair TX750, or an HX620 for your build. Both of those will be enough for a 9800GX2 (and you will need to get the PCI-E 8pin adapter as both those PSU's came out before the GX2 was released)

Graphics card wise, it would really depend on your monitor size and what games you want to play. If you're running 1900x1200 or LOWER, then go with the 4870. If you're running higher than 2650x1600 then stick with the 9800GX2.

As far as I know, there have been no problems running ATI cards with an NVIDIA chipset.

As for case, I can suggest the Antec P182, but it's all up to you. I can't really recommend anything else to you.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Well I was hoping to eventually step up to dual 25" monitors but now that I think about it I would rather just cut down the price... so if you're suggesting NOT getting an nVidia chipset, which board(s) should I look at?

So if I were to get one of those intel boards and get DDR3 RAM, you're saying I wouldn't see the full benefits because the Q9450 can't support it? I want to get the fastest RAM that I can get, but I do want to be able to realize all of the benefits... if I can't use it then I guess I can get the DDR2... but is there any way I can get a board that can also upgrade (processor & ram) when I do choose to go with DDR3?

The Corsair TX750 PSU was another PSU I was looking at, it was a lot cheaper than the one that I am looking at now, I may just go with that... and if what you say about the resolution is right, for now I'll be fine with the 4870 since I'm not sure when I'll want to upgrade to the dual monitor setup.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Okay, I've changed my case choice, I am going to take Shift's recommendation and go with the Antec P182... I had actually seen that case a few months ago. It looks like a nice case, and it's quite a bit cheaper that the CM case I was looking at. I'm going to get the 850W Antec PSU with it, I know it's a bit too powerful but oh well.

However, I'm still not sure which motherboard to go with my Q9450 and which RAM to choose, I just saw this ASUS Rampage board which I've heard good things about... would it be better than going with a DDR3 board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813131284

Should I choose that ASUS board, would this RAM be alright?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820231166

Edited July 8, 2008 by Chsoriano

[hawker1986]

Hi,

That is a very good board indeed. As for the DDR3 issue, my personal thought is that atm you wont make the most of DDR3 potential so theres not really any point in wasting a lot of money on it. I would stick with that motherboard and just get a decent DDR2 kit, 4/8GB of it, that will save you a lot of money rather than getting DDR3.

Hawker

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Hi,

That is a very good board indeed. As for the DDR3 issue, my personal thought is that atm you wont make the most of DDR3 potential so theres not really any point in wasting a lot of money on it. I would stick with that motherboard and just get a decent DDR2 kit, 4/8GB of it, that will save you a lot of money rather than getting DDR3.

Hawker

So you would suggest that ASUS Rampage board with DDR2 RAM, I think the RAM that I am looking at now is DDR2 1066 and I'm pretty sure it will work with that mobo. I'm not sure if this is what Shift was recommending earlier though.

[obiwong]

since you're going with the Q9450

go with 800MHz RAM

even if you decide to OC in the future, you probably won't be passing 400MHz FSB on a quad

[gnuman]

Rampage board is really a waste of money you're spending an arm and a leg and you're not overclocking. As far as the Q9450 the price actually went up not down. They are still hard to come by.

I got myself a Gigabyte motherboard (that energy efficient one the name slips my mind) and opted for 8GB of DDR2 memory. DDR3 is a waste of money as the performance is negligible compared to current DDR2. Let's see 8 GB of DDR 2 $150 and you're already spending more than that on a 4GB kit.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Hmm... well now I don't know what to do, I found some DDR2 800 RAM, there are a bunch of choices but there is a pretty good deal on some OCZ Reaper sticks ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820227267 ) and I guess I can get 8GB total but I'm not really sure I need 8GB right now. I would love it, but even with my gaming and video editing habits I don't see why I need more than 4 for now.

What is a good Gigabyte motherboard that is good for the Radeon HD 4870, Q9450 and this OCZ Reaper DDR2 800 RAM?

[+shift. MVC]

I'd look at P45 right now for that type of budget, maybe the GA-EP45-DS3R or the Asus P5Q. If you want more features you can go with the EP45-DQ6 or the Asus P5Q Pro.

So if I were to get one of those intel boards and get DDR3 RAM, you're saying I wouldn't see the full benefits because the Q9450 can't support it?

Not that it won't support it, but with the way Intel's architecture works right now with the FSB and DRAM ratios, your processor FSB isn't even close to being as fast as DDR3 RAM is right now, nor will you be able to overclock that high such that the ratio will be 1:1 with DDR3 RAM's rated speed. So you might as well get slower DDR2 RAM that will run at or close to it's rated speed.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

I'd look at P45 right now for that type of budget, maybe the GA-EP45-DS3R or the Asus P5Q. If you want more features you can go with the EP45-DQ6 or the Asus P5Q Pro.

Not that it won't support it, but with the way Intel's architecture works right now with the FSB and DRAM ratios, your processor FSB isn't even close to being as fast as DDR3 RAM is right now, nor will you be able to overclock that high such that the ratio will be 1:1 with DDR3 RAM's rated speed. So you might as well get slower DDR2 RAM that will run at or close to it's rated speed.

Both the GA-EP45-DS3R and Asus P5Q Pro boards say they use DDR2 1200, I assume it can also use DDR2 800, am I correct? Also, I like the Gigabyte board better because of the number of USB ports (that's awesome). If I were to choose from the 3 boards, which would be better...

ASUS Rampage - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813131284

Gigabyte - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813128344

Asus P5Q Pro - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16813131299

I think I've decided on everything else, I'm going to do that Antec case, with the 750W Corsair PSU, the Core 2 Quad Q9450, Radeon HD 4870, 4GB OCZ DDR2 800 ram, and all the other stuff is pretty standard.

So once I get the motherboard decided (unless I have to change anything else) I'm going to order it tomorrow. Half of it from Amazon and the rest from Newegg.

[+shift. MVC]

I wouldn't go with the ASUS Rampage, the Asus RoG (Republic of Gamers) boards are more tailored towards overclockers.

As for the Gigabyte vs. Asus, they are both good brands, but I like that Gigabyte board more (for the same reason as well, more USB ports).

Regarding your question about RAM, the board will support everything up to and including DDR2-1200. So everything below that is fine, DDR2-1200 is just the maximum that it can run with.

Overall looks like a really good system. Are you going with the Western Digital AAKS drives? The Samsung Spinpoint F1 are just as fast as well, so you might want to take a look at that and get the cheaper one.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

I wouldn't go with the ASUS Rampage, the Asus RoG (Republic of Gamers) boards are more tailored towards overclockers.

As for the Gigabyte vs. Asus, they are both good brands, but I like that Gigabyte board more (for the same reason as well, more USB ports).

Regarding your question about RAM, the board will support everything up to and including DDR2-1200. So everything below that is fine, DDR2-1200 is just the maximum that it can run with.

Overall looks like a really good system. Are you going with the Western Digital AAKS drives? The Samsung Spinpoint F1 are just as fast as well, so you might want to take a look at that and get the cheaper one.

Actually, I was looking at the Spinpoint F1 drives last week, that's what I was going to go with until for some reason I changed to the WD drive I have selected right now. I'll go back and look at it though.

EDIT: I just looked and the 750GB Spinpoint F1 drive is more expensive, I'll just go with the WD for now (I'm going to be purchasing an additional drive within a couple months anyway.)

I'll probably go with the Gigabyte motherboard then since it's cheaper and it has a lot of usb ports, but should I go with the faster ram DDR2-1200 or just stick with the 800 then and also... will the Gigabyte motherboard be able to go CrossFire should I choose to next year?

[+shift. MVC]

Stick with DDR2-800. I'll explain why, first off you're not overclocking.

Second of all, DDR2-800 runs at double data rate, so it's effective frequency is actually 400MHz. Which means (if you ever decide to overclock) your RAM will be good for up to 400MHz FSB (effective) multiply that 400 by your Q9450's multiplier which is 8 your RAM will be good for up to 3.2GHz (from 2.66GHz stock).

Ideally since you are not overclocking, you would get 667MHz RAM, because of the fact that the Q9450 is a 1333MHz FSB CPU. Since Intel FSB is quad pumped you would divide that by FOUR to get 333.25MHz, when you double that amount, you will get 667MHz, which is the speed RAM that you should get if you are NOT overclocking. However, we recommended DDR2-800 to give you the option of maybe jumping into overclocking into the future. :)

The Spinpoint F1 and the WD AAKS drives both use 320GB platters, so they are easily the two second fastest consumer drives on the market to date. Whichever one is cheaper, that's the one I would get.

[gwai lo]

RAM support speed on boards is generally just marketing, RAM will run at the speed of the processor. Some chipsets may have a minimum (e.g. P35 doesn't have official support for DDR2-533 nor can we really confirm), but the bs about support DDR2-1200 is nothing.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Stick with DDR2-800. I'll explain why, first off you're not overclocking.

Second of all, DDR2-800 runs at double data rate, so it's effective frequency is actually 400MHz. Which means (if you ever decide to overclock) your RAM will be good for up to 400MHz FSB (effective) multiply that 400 by your Q9450's multiplier which is 8 your RAM will be good for up to 3.2GHz (from 2.66GHz stock).

Ideally since you are not overclocking, you would get 667MHz RAM, because of the fact that the Q9450 is a 1333MHz FSB CPU. Since Intel FSB is quad pumped you would divide that by FOUR to get 333.25MHz, when you double that amount, you will get 667MHz, which is the speed RAM that you should get if you are NOT overclocking. However, we recommended DDR2-800 to give you the option of maybe jumping into overclocking into the future. :)

The Spinpoint F1 and the WD AAKS drives both use 320GB platters, so they are easily the two second fastest consumer drives on the market to date. Whichever one is cheaper, that's the one I would get.

Okay, I get what you're saying... and I'm tired of waiting, I'm going to go ahead and order it... just in case, here are the final specs of everything I'm getting...

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard

Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450

RAM: OCZ OCZN800SR4GK 4GB Kit 800MHZ DDR2 PC2-6400

Case: Antec P182 Advanced Super Mid Tower ATX Case (Black)

PSU: Corsair 750W TX Power Supply (CMPSU-750TX)

GPU: VisionTek Radeon HD4870 512MB GDDR5 PCI Express Video Card

HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

DVD: (x2) SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F

Monitor: SAMSUNG 2253BW Black 22" 2ms(GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor

Other stuff:

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler

(x3) COOLER MASTER SAF-S12-E1 120mm Case Fan

Any comments about the heatsink/case fans? I just tried to find something that moved a lot of air but that didn't seem too loud, what do you think?

Shift, thanks for all of your help and advice, I really appreciate it. I'm going to look through these carts one more time before I buy... if you had any more comments before I buy let me know. Thanks again.

Chris

[+shift. MVC]

You don't really NEED the CPU cooler, since you aren't overclocking the stock one should be fine.

And no problem.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

You don't really NEED the CPU cooler, since you aren't overclocking the stock one should be fine.

And no problem.

Oh really... I was thinking about that since the cpu should run pretty cool anyway... I just don't want to cause any damage or reduce performance. You're pretty sure it'll be alright without it though?

[gwai lo]

You need to get to >85C + overvolting for an extended period of time to cause damage. At 85C the chip will throttle itself to a lower temperature though and then 20C after maximum Tcase it'll shut the cores off to prevent damage.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

You need to get to >85C + overvolting for an extended period of time to cause damage. At 85C the chip will throttle itself to a lower temperature though and then 20C after maximum Tcase it'll shut the cores off to prevent damage.

Thanks for the confirmation... I went ahead and ordered most of the parts right now. I'm going to order the rest from Amazon tomorrow so that they arrive at home on Friday so I can be there to accept the packages.

Thanks again to everyone, especially shift.

[+shift. MVC]

No problem at all. Do make a bump on your thread if you encounter any problems.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

No problem at all. Do make a bump on your thread if you encounter any problems.

Thanks, will do.

[+Chsoriano Subscriber²]

Okay, I'm sure I missed something, but last time I built a machine (a few years ago), I don't think the processors' heatsink had any thermal compound on it... but it looks like my Q9450's stock fan/heatsink has a thermal pad on it... should I just use what's on it or use my Arctic Thermal Compound 5 I purchased? I'm assuming I would have to scrape off whatever came originally on the heatsink though, right?

I've attached a pic, but I don't have my digital camera with me so had to use my phone, sorry about the poor quality. But the three gray patches are what I am assuming is some sort of thermal paste/wax.

[Adam1V]

read the instructions, is it thermal pad/paste or just something to help conduct?

[+shift. MVC]

It's thermal paste. I would use it and save your AS5 for now. It performs almost the same if not better anyway.