Recommended Posts

I understand there is already a thread on the old start menu thing, but it is already 6 pages and counting, I guess if I post it there, after a few pages more, then nobody would find the trick.

I try to add a few things on 8102, and hopefully add a few more later, but first thing first:

1. To get back the old start menu, open regedit, goto

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer

change value of RPEnabled from "1" to "0"

close regedit, you get your old start menu......the catch is, no more metro UI because you just disabled it. To get back the Metro UI, change the value back to "1"

I had ran thru the other thread, and agree with some members : this is progress, try to adapt to it, use the old thing as a temporary way until you get use to Metro.

screen739.jpg

2. Install on Hard-disk to dual boot with win7

Do-not try to install 8102 within win7, it won't ask you which partition you want to install, and go stright to install on C, and your win7 is gone.

You need to burn the ISO to a DVD or USB FD, boot with it, then set-up will ask you for the partition, everything goes like win7 installation.

3. Dual/multi-boot with XP

8102 still uses BCD but it doesn't care about XP, so after 8102 is installed, use VistaBootPro to install the "Vista Bootloader" back to the system partition, then set-up the bootmenu with VistaBootPro.

Of course you can use EasyBCD, I don't want to install it just to show the basically similar procedures.

screen738.jpg

Update 1:

Actually you can install inside win7(or other windows) and it is very simple: After mounting to a virtual CDrom, people tend to fire up the setup.exe on the root dir, and it will cause win8 setup to install directly on C, and put the win7 in windows.old.

The correct way is to go to the sources folder, there is another setup.exe in it, and firing up this exe file will begin install by asking you the partition to install.

Update 2

If you are one of those unlucky chap who installed 8102 over win7, and must have to get the win7 back, here is the MS tech page on how to restore XP from win7. I have not tried but read over the article, the steps should basically be the same:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971760

Update 3

screen740.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1025334-a-few-hints-tricks-for-build-8102/
Share on other sites

change value of RPEnabled from "0" to "1"

Haven't tried this one myself (actually enjoying the new interface), but nice to see you can disable a ton of whining with a simple registry edit ;) Wouldn't it be changing 1 to 0 though?

  • Like 2

[. . .]

I had ran thru the other thread, and agree with some members : this is progress, try to adapt to it, use the old thing as a temporary way until you get use to Metro.

[. . .]

There is no way they can get used to it if they disable it completely. The best option would be for them to just try the Immersive experience for a month or two.

Can anyone confirm this? Love to share it with our readers if I can get confirmation :)

Why? It's not an official option within the operating system, and it will just lead to more people not getting used to the new Immersive experience, meaning they will continue to complain when it is finally released. As the Start Menu will most likely not return, it'd be better to encourage all users to try to get used to it :)

Haven't tried this one myself (actually enjoying the new interface), but nice to see you can disable a ton of whining with a simple registry edit ;) Wouldn't it be changing 1 to 0 though?

Yeah, thanks, amended. :rolleyes:

There is no way they can get used to it if they disable it completely. The best option would be for them to just try the Immersive experience for a month or two.

Why? It's not an official option within the operating system, and it will just lead to more people not getting used to the new Immersive experience, meaning they will continue to complain when it is finally released.As the Start Menu will most likely not return, it'd be better to encourage all users to try and get used to it :)

I agree, some may still use the old menu "forever". But this trick will be known thru other channels, one way or the other, there's no secret in the web, I am not the only guy to know it........, a MS guy told me this trick. :laugh:

Hint : If you are installing on vmware workstation and get the nasty message "windows cannot read the <productKey> setting from the unnattend answer file", just disable the floppy drive on the vmware settings.

:-D

tried with VmWare Workstation 8, Windows Developer Preview 8 x64 as Guest, Windows 7 professional x64 as Host

I can see why some would want to use the old start menu, but honestly I barally use the thing as it is right now in Win7. The apps I'm always using are just pinned to the taskbar, as such having those pinned to the start screen is the same thing.

One thing they need to do is add things the start screen is missing atm. Lots of people want to be able to close metro apps without having to do it through task manager, I suppose this will come in the beta and that right now MS wants to show you how the OS manages those apps on it's own, like on WP7 etc.

Also unless you have a old desktop app open then I don't think Alt+Tab works between metro apps, this should be added, OR I expect they could be working on a WP7 like task switcher when inside the start screen UI. I say this because, though it's not in this build that we got, they demoed in the keynote that you can zoom out on the start screen to move whole tile groups around and to also jump between them etc. That option would work well for apps also, you can do it with touch, zoom out with pinching etc to get a row of open apps (like Alt+tab shows basically) then you pick the one you want. This can also be done with a KB shortcut (just keep it as Alt+tab) and arrow keys or the mouse.

Really, that's all that's missing imo. A better close option and then app switching inside the new UI.

My screen-shot is proof, but I changed it back to Metro, I like new things. :laugh:

I have the standard desktop as an app (basically, the default), but I'm sticking to Immersive, despite having a traditional (but wireless) keyboard and mouse (the keyboard is Microsoft's Wireless 6000 V.3, the mouse is the Logitech V220).

So far, I have not run into any 7-isms with either applications or drivers; if 7 x64 supports a driver or application, so does the Developer Preview. I haven't needed to use Compatibility Mode so much as once.

Office 2010 (x64) is installed (mounted the ISO and installed that way); it also updates (via WU) just fine (I just applied SP1, in fact).

I can see why some would want to use the old start menu, but honestly I barally use the thing as it is right now in Win7. The apps I'm always using are just pinned to the taskbar, as such having those pinned to the start screen is the same thing.

One thing they need to do is add things the start screen is missing atm. Lots of people want to be able to close metro apps without having to do it through task manager, I suppose this will come in the beta and that right now MS wants to show you how the OS manages those apps on it's own, like on WP7 etc.

Also unless you have a old desktop app open then I don't think Alt+Tab works between metro apps, this should be added, OR I expect they could be working on a WP7 like task switcher when inside the start screen UI. I say this because, though it's not in this build that we got, they demoed in the keynote that you can zoom out on the start screen to move whole tile groups around and to also jump between them etc. That option would work well for apps also, you can do it with touch, zoom out with pinching etc to get a row of open apps (like Alt+tab shows basically) then you pick the one you want. This can also be done with a KB shortcut (just keep it as Alt+tab) and arrow keys or the mouse.

Really, that's all that's missing imo. A better close option and then app switching inside the new UI.

Alt+Tab certainly *does* work, between Metro/Immersive apps, Classic apps, or any combination. Creative's software updates are a good example of Classic apps, while IE 10 by default is Immersive/Metro - at one point, I had Creative AutoUpdate running, IE10 desktop, IE10 Immersive, and Windows Explorer all open, and Alt+Tabbed between them as needed. (That's right - IE10 desktop *and* IE10 Immersive; you CAN run both at once. In fact, if you launch IE via the Run line, it starts in Immersive, even if you have a separate IE10 desktop session running.) I haven't even *used* Task Manager.

Actually if the metro UI will be there by default I guess instead of getting myself used to it, will be the moment I finally switch to Linux.The thing looks so ugly to me.They should have added something like multiple desktops, or infinitely scrolling desktop, but the metro just seems so wrong to me, atleast the way the tiles look.

nice one... Although, i came up with an issue installing 8102 on my OCZ Vertex 2 SSD.... it would not recognise the drive... had to haul out a 160Gb SATA HDD to get 8102 installed.... that was kind of odd!

Actually if the metro UI will be there by default I guess instead of getting myself used to it, will be the moment I finally switch to Linux.The thing looks so ugly to me.They should have added something like multiple desktops, or infinitely scrolling desktop, but the metro just seems so wrong to me, atleast the way the tiles look.

And you actually think the learning curve there will be any easier?

Consider GNOME, or UNITY, or even Wayland - all have a higher learning curve than even Metro does from a user point of view.

All the keyboard tricks from as far back as Windows 9x/NT still work - even within Metro. If you're even a halfway-competent keyboard jockey, Metro/Immersive can be dealt with quite easily - even without touch support.

Something I said (elsewhere) is coming true - far too many of us may SAY we want change; yet, when confronted with it, we become very Pharonic in our attitudes and insist on staying put.

And it doesn't seem to matter whether it's applications, games, operating systems (including FOSS), and even politicians.

Far too many of us don't want new - what we REALLY want is *improved old*, and with as little real change as we can get away with.

I've installed it so far. I've ran into no bugs except, Internet Explorer crashes after every 10-30 seconds of use, and refuses to load web pages without crashing constantly, however this bug doesn't effect me much since I use a different browser anyway. I'm not sure what's causing it. Skype finally worked after I downloaded the new version, strangely the online installer they issued me from their download page of the official site seems to install 5.3.XXX, this didn't have Windows 8 support so it didn't sign up properly. It was fixed after I found an offline installer of a newer version 5.5.XXX, which had support for the new OS. I think disabling the start menu to the old one has also cured my hatred for how ugly the ribbon has been implemented in the explorer frame. I think that direction is pretty risky since I liked how it is disabled.

Other than that, it's pretty solid, no real complaints really, I knew I was downloading pre-released software, and it's running better than pre-released software does. I think there's a lot of work to be done, but the main ideas are there and the direction is clear. I hope they don't have that metro panel as a default for computer based users as I think it should be kept on touchscreen devices. Would people choose to use that IE instead of desktops IE? But yes, I know it's pre-released software and that it'll probably be changed in the future, but I just wanted to jot down at least one fault imo, but I do realise they are trying to show the new metro UI.

And you actually think the learning curve there will be any easier?

Consider GNOME, or UNITY, or even Wayland - all have a higher learning curve than even Metro does from a user point of view.

All the keyboard tricks from as far back as Windows 9x/NT still work - even within Metro. If you're even a halfway-competent keyboard jockey, Metro/Immersive can be dealt with quite easily - even without touch support.

Something I said (elsewhere) is coming true - far too many of us may SAY we want change; yet, when confronted with it, we become very Pharonic in our attitudes and insist on staying put.

And it doesn't seem to matter whether it's applications, games, operating systems (including FOSS), and even politicians.

Far too many of us don't want new - what we REALLY want is *improved old*, and with as little real change as we can get away with.

There is a considerable problem in the current build with little to no consistency in between the two desktops. It randomly jumps between one and the other at the most inopportune times, and it's an incredible pain in the ass and is massively confusing. I know I'm not the only one because this very same argument has been stated in reviews as well. As it currently stands in the preview build, I do believe the learning curve is higher than with GNOME or UNITY. Wayland by the way isn't a Desktop Environment. It's a display server that lets you run DE's like GNOME or UNITY on it.

Little thing I found when installing it as I downloaded the full iso image 4.8GB or whichever wouldn't fit on standard DVD so went the USB route but was too lazy to do whole manual copying and making USB stick bootable so tried using the Windows 7 USB software from Microsoft and what do you know, it works so if anyone's in similar boat it's easiest solution.

For better navigating the startscreen with a keyboard/mouse: press pageup/pagedown to swipeleft/swiperight. Home/end will also work.

The scroll wheel moves the start screen back and forth as well. I have no idea why they don't have mouse dragging. :/

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Yup, that's a doozy right there 😄
    • It's a bundle of tools created by a variety of people, so things can go wrong sometimes. It's a great addition to Windows, and I use a lot of the tools on a daily basis. Also, it's still a 0.**** release so quick updates are to be expected 😉
    • Oh, I did. And it's even worse than I was hoping! Besides a lot of techno-babble jargon (yes I understand 100% of it but it's still all just techno-babble) there's 2 key points that make me super-weary about even considering testing this out. -- By default, after installation, a relay is automatically set up, so you do not need to care about that. * Non-chatmail apps use email servers as a long-term message archive while chatmail clients use email servers for ephemeral instant message relay. * Supporting the full variety of classic email setups would require considerable development and maintenance efforts, and complicate making chatmail-based messaging more resilient, reliable and fast. -- Basically, the end-user device is the 'server' (relay) so there is NO ARCHIVING whatsoever because every message is necessarily ephemeral. Great for techno-paranoia (and for illicit activities preferring no tracks to cover) but terrible for everybody else. It's also ironically contradictory to engineering principles of redundancies besides the transport layers due to the explicit absence of any persistent storage. Instead of 'classic email address' retaining multi-GB messaging archives on its server, now every device must retain 100% of those storage demands. (Email messages were originally meant to be short correspondences, not the multi-MB attachments boondoggle that now exists with unlimited spam engines flooding every potential recipient.) Any device swap or reset (or loss) makes the entire message history go bye-bye forever... lest there's an off-device auto-archival "relay" mechanism that's really a separate server that holds onto all transported messages (an email server) that utilizes 'chatmail email address' identities (like an email server) and its own persistent storage archive (like an email server). But... this solution is hoping to exist alongside real-world email address identities (based on the email server relay pathway) but simply render messages in chat thread format in an ephemeral manner (with contents being encrypted, and messages auto-expiring) ... In the end, it's a chat app/experience for the Web3/P2P-at-all-costs zealots. (I have accts on all sorts of federated web3 services so I understand the technical and non-technical alike.) For any practical users, however, it's just another service to download/install, register, cross-share id cards/qr codes, but know that there's no history/archive whatsoever (by design) so no account/message recovery whatsoever... update the device, install a bummed update patch, or dare upgrade your device... all history, poof, gone. Ya gotta start everything over again like they're a brand new person.
    • You've tried DuckDuckGo and Brave Search, now get serious with SearXNG by Paul Hill Over the last decade, it has become quite trendy to dump Google Search in favor of privacy-preserving alternatives such as DuckDuckGo, Startpage, and Brave Search. These search engines have done a very good job at highlighting dodgy practices by Google, such as adjusting search results based on what it thinks you’ll like (filter bubble) and stalking you around the web to advertise to you. While these search engines are good starting points when compared to non-private services like Google, there are still quite a few issues with them. For example, both DuckDuckGo and Brave Search require running non-free JavaScript in your web browser, which is comparable to running proprietary software on your computer, meaning you can be sure about what it’s actually doing in the background. Another issue is that these search engines are hosted on the respective companies’ servers, and you are using a service that you don’t control. Finally, DuckDuckGo, while offering privacy features, relies heavily on Microsoft’s infrastructure for its results and, in the past, has permitted Microsoft tracking scripts. If you are looking for a more private search solution than DuckDuckGo, Brave Search, and Startpage, then I recommend taking a look at SearXNG. It is a privacy-respecting metasearch engine that can be used via different public instances, which is useful for mobile users, or you can install it on your computer or server and run it locally with maximum control. Unlike Google, Bing, or Brave Search, which crawl the web and have their own search indexes, SearXNG is a metasearch engine, meaning it taps other search engines, stripping your identifying data, such as IP address, user agent, and cookies, in the process. Your search query is sent to the other search engines you enable before aggregating the results. SearXNG has deployment flexibility. If you are a casual user or a mobile user and don’t want to run SearXNG locally, you can use a public instance that is hosted by someone else. The main problem with this is that you are putting trust in the maintainer of the instance regarding stuff like logs that they may keep; good hosts should have a privacy policy explaining their policies. If you are trying to use SearXNG, you can also install the software on your device and then head to 127.0.0.1:8080 in your browser and search from there. While you don’t have to worry about a third-party admin like the public instances, search engines could ultimately block your IP address if they frown on you pulling in their search results locally. If you want to run it locally, it’s a good idea to use proxies or VPNs to hide your actual IP. You don’t have to worry about this with a public instance, as search engines never see your IP address. The main privacy benefit of using SearXNG is that it isolates your identity from the underlying engines that it’s capable of searching, such as Google and Bing. These search engines will only see requests coming from a generic server, so they can’t profile you and create a bubble filter that influences what results you see. This also ensures that your search engine doesn’t turn into an echo chamber that prevents you from reading alternative points of view. As a free software project, you are allowed to inspect SearXNG to make sure there are no negative features bundled inside. This sets it apart from the privacy search engines mentioned earlier because you can’t check their source code. As a meta search engine, you are not restricted to getting results from one source. Due to the fact that it scrapes content from other websites, your SearXNG instance will periodically get blocked from different providers, so it’s good to select a range of sources as a backup. While enabling all of the services will give you great results, this can make searching slower. I am personally happy with slower searches for the best results, but you can always check which providers are slowing down your search from the search results page and disable them to speed things up. If you want decent results quickly, enable the main search providers such as Google, Brave, DuckDuckGo, Qwant, Bing, and Yahoo. This way, you get wide coverage without the latency. On the Engines tab in Preferences, do note that there are different tabs, such as General, Images, and Videos, with their own providers that can be toggled and are not covered by "Enable all" while on the General tab, so be sure to dig into each. Just a note, if you want to enable everything, press "Enable all" in one tab, then hit save at the bottom of the page, then do the next tab, and so on. If you press "Enable all", then do that in each tab, and then save, nothing will stick. When I had just some of the search engines enabled, I searched “define nefarious” and results came back with the definition of “define” - obviously that was a sucky result. However, when I had everything enabled, it found dictionary pages for the word “nefarious” and even had an inline definition on the sidebar, which is quite nice too - that was delivered by WolframAlpha for anyone wondering! Probably the worst thing about this meta search engine is that the engines you select are saved with a cookie, so you must enable them on every new device you use SearXNG on, including if you decide to go into incognito mode with your web browser. Honestly, I would say this is the most annoying aspect, and perhaps if your browser lets you choose a separate private browsing search engine, then it would be best to use DuckDuckGo for this portion of your browsing. Another weakness of SearXNG is the random blocking of it by search providers. When you are on the results page, expand the “Response time” box, and it will show things like “Suspended: too many requests” or “access denied”. This is why it is good to enable several providers so that there is always a fallback to get results from. I won’t pretend SearXNG will be for everyone, however, if you enable all of the providers and put up with the slower response time, the results can be really amazing. Even if you don’t want to use it as your daily driver, keeping a bookmark handy that links to it is a good idea if you ever feel like doing a deep dive into a niche topic where other search engines are just failing to bring up any good result, due to the amount of sources it looks on. If you’re interested in radical user control over the software you use, installing SearXNG locally can also be a good idea, but be prepared to be temporarily blocked from sites if you trigger bot sensors without a VPN. Personally, I’ve opted to use a public instance, rather than install it myself. If you want to use it via a public instance, head over to searx.space to find a provider. Let us know in the comments if you have used SearXNG or its predecessor, Searx. What do you think about the quality of the results?
    • Dear Neowin, If it is not too much trouble, can you start using the new-ish designations for Insider Preview? "Experimental" is different than "former Dev" as it can apply to different models, eg 26H1 or 26H2 etc, right? No need to seed confusion IMHO. And, please "finally" update your graphics. OK?
  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      flexorcist earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Month Later
      Woland13 earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • Week One Done
      Woland13 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • One Year In
      bernmeister earned a badge
      One Year In
    • Week One Done
      Scoobystu earned a badge
      Week One Done
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      503
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      226
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      158
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      75
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      71
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!