win8 Microsoft

[+Frank B. Subscriber²]

Microsoft?s new Windows 8 Resilient File System (ReFS) will be server only

Microsoft?s new file system for Windows 8 will only be available in server variants of the operating system, WinRumors has learned.

The software maker is currently readying a new file system as an offshoot to the original concept of Windows Future Storage (WinFS). According to sources familiar with the company?s plans, the new file system is called Resilient File System. The project originally started out as Monolithic NTFS (MNTFS) and then ended up codenamed Protogon before the final Resilient File System (ReFS) naming was chosen. Screenshots from the latest Windows 8 builds surfaced on Thursday demonstrating the new file system in action.

The naming reveals some of the concepts around what Microsoft is trying to achieve with the new file system. The idea is that server variants of Windows 8 will be able to utilise the new technology to improve file system resilience to hardware and software errors. The technology will not be widely used and is designed for specific use by server administrators. As a result, client versions of Windows 8 will not be able to utilise the new file system according to our sources.

Microsoft?s original Windows Future Storage (WinFS) concept made its way into Longhorn (Windows Vista) builds during the early beta phases. WinFS was first demonstrated in 2003 at the company?s Professional Developers Conference. Microsoft promised an advanced storage subsystem designed to manage data by means of a database. The WinFS database would allow any type of information to be stored in it alongside a defined schema for the data type. The idea was to speed up searching and data sharing between applications. Microsoft ditched the idea before Windows Vista was brought to market.

Microsoft hasn?t publicly discussed any plans to incorporate a new file system in Windows 8. The software giant did detail its large disk and large sector support in Windows 8 earlier this week. Microsoft plans to make it possible to install Windows 8 and boot from a 3TB or bigger hard disk. The support will be possible with UEFI firmware systems that allow Microsoft to take advantage of new partitioning techniques to better manage data stored on large disks.

Source: WinRumors

[Glassed Silver]

Wow... that's too bad (N)

At first they can't incorporate it at all (WinFS) and then they make it server-exclusive.

Well, who knows what it's good for... :/

Glassed Silver:mac

[The_Decimator]

Well, if it's called Resilient File System, I guess that lessens the chances for me as to whether it's WinFS. I thought the, "Re," was for, "Relational."

EDIT: Also, wasn't Protogon in the leaked client builds?

[FaiKee]

I have doubts on this "rumor". It appeared as a fully functional feature in the drive management function of a client build, that means the user can format a drive in ReFS, then found the drive is useless? Doesn't sound reasonable to me. :(

[Fraud OS 11]

Quite possible. Maybe it's designed for Server 2012's Storage Pools and Storage Spaces features.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I have doubts on this "rumor". It appeared as a fully functional feature in the drive management function of a client build, that means the user can format a drive in ReFS, then found the drive is useless? Doesn't sound reasonable to me. :(

Just because a feature appeared in a build doesn't mean it'll stay there until final.

[CPressland]

Looks like something like this will push RAID even further down the food chain!

[FaiKee]

Quite possible. Maybe it's designed for Server 2012's Storage Pools and Storage Spaces features.

Just because a feature appeared in a build doesn't mean it'll stay there until final.

Yeah, I know, but all of this atm are just rumors and speculations, guess we just have to wait and see.

btw, I got a unconfirmed(repeat: unconfirmed) tip-off: the beta is expected to be installable on ReFS, and also expects to install and run faster. So, let's see how things would develop. :/

Edit: I don't exactly know what canouna meant by "work great"; just have to wait for more infos.

[tiagosilva29]

I'd use it to play Bethesda games.

[REM2000]

I hope they include they hash type security/integrity on files similar to ZFS, as i think this would be the biggest feature to stop data rot.

It may be server only as like ZFS it may have some heavy requirements, if so then the small percentage of users who might benefit might not have been a compelling reason to bump the requires from say 1GB to 4GB (example).

Im still a big fan of NTFS, with the upgrades they have done over the years there is plenty of life in the FS and i don't see it disappearing to soon. My only wish was that the specification for NTFS was open so Linux and Mac users could have proper read write access to it, i would use it on all devices, from USB Sticks to External Hard Disks instead of ExFAT.

[DeadEndAccount]

Yeah, I know, but all of this atm are just rumors and speculations, guess we just have to wait and see.

btw, I got a unconfirmed(repeat: unconfirmed) tip-off: the beta is expected to be installable on ReFS, and also expects to install and run faster. So, let's see how things would develop. :/

Edit: I don't exactly know what canouna meant by "work great"; just have to wait for more infos.

From what it sounds like he is running a newer build and it is running off ReFS already - I have a feeling it will be in the client version but only used in specific case scenarios rather than it being the default.

Regarding people invoking ZFS - I suggest they look at the file system, or better still use it with Solaris 11 then come back and say, "sure, that'll have no problems running on a 32bit computer with 2GB of memory".

[techguy77]

Only feature i am excited about with Windows 8/Server, right now.

[migo]

Only feature i am excited about with Windows 8/Server, right now.

You're not excited about lower resource usage?

[ITFiend]

I hope they include they hash type security/integrity on files similar to ZFS, as i think this would be the biggest feature to stop data rot.

"Checksums (64-bit) are always turned on for ReFS metadata, and assuming that the volume is hosted on a mirrored Storage Space, automatic correction is also always turned on. All integrity streams (see below) are protected in the same way. This creates an end-to-end high integrity solution for the customer, where relatively unreliable storage can be made highly reliable."

If you have not read Steven Sinofsky's post on ReFS, you should read it over anyone else?s materials. It's just a wee bit less speculative and likely accurate than everything everyone else has been posting:

http://blogs.msdn.co...ndows-refs.aspx

[techguy77]

If i ever move to Windows 8 i will probably ended up running Windows 8 Server as Workstation and Gaming Machine.

[farmeunit]

Looks like something like this will push RAID even further down the food chain!

There is no way to replace RAID on server a system. If they drive fails, it doesn't matter what filesystem is on it.

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

What's wrong with NTFS for the time being? What do most of you "need" from ReFS anyways?

[remixedcat]

is this drive extender over again????

[Anthonyd]

What's wrong with NTFS for the time being? What do most of you "need" from ReFS anyways?

More than 255 chars for path.

[XerXis]

More than 255 chars for path.

It's 260, and that is a windows limit, not NTFS which allows paths up to 2^15 characters (if I'm not mistaken)

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/bclteam/archive/2007/02/13/long-paths-in-net-part-1-of-3-kim-hamilton.aspx

[Cereal Bawks]

There is no way to replace RAID on server a system. If they drive fails, it doesn't matter what filesystem is on it.

That's what Storage Spaces is good for. At least the iteration that'll support at least RAID6 and 10 like redundancy.

[CPressland]

There is no way to replace RAID on server a system. If they drive fails, it doesn't matter what filesystem is on it.

Erm, I'm not talking about FileSystems, I'm talking about the new Storage Spaces thingy.

That's what Storage Spaces is good for. At least the iteration that'll support at least RAID6 and 10 like redundancy.

^^ Yeah what he said.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

In Windows 8, ReFS will be introduced only as part of Windows Server 8, which is the same approach we have used for each and every file system introduction.

Source

Seems like if it's happened with file systems in the past, there is no reason why they would change it for ReFS.

[Cereal Bawks]

Storage Spaces as-is isn't really suited for enterprise storage. Small servers maybe, but that's it. With growing disk sizes, there's a significant statistical possibility for read errors messing with array rebuilds. That's why storage solutions introduced triple parity RAID a while ago (three parity disks in an array). Right now it offers equivalents to RAID5 and 2/3-way mirrors. Latter is OK, former not to much.

Furthermore, according to Microsoft itself in their B8 blog, ReFS+SS can't cope with online repair of bad data on parity spaces. So if you want safe data that's online 24/7, mirrors are your only option.

And finally, I'm sure you'll be able to format your stuff to ReFS from command line, like with Protogon. If refs.sys is missing in the client builds, steal it from the server ones. Both versions come from the same source tree and are 100% compatible to each other.

[M_Lyons10]

[/i]

Source

Seems like if it's happened with file systems in the past, there is no reason why they would change it for ReFS.

Yes, they said that it would release in a Server release first before coming to the Desktop OS. I'm not sure how this is news. I figure the Desktop OS will likely have some support for it, but won't use it as the Server version does...