The demonization of Iran

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Iran is doing nothing wrong. Their land and their lives. Who the **** is the world to tell them what they can do and can't do when the whole world is more corrupt than them. That's the whole point.

Spoken the truth, my friend.

Couldn't agree more.

Tons of thumbs up to you (Y)

[redfish]

The ties between the Nazi's and Persia need exploring.

German-Persian ties go back a long ways, at least to 1819, but in the 1930's Reza Pahlavi's close ties with the Nazi's started worrying people; they were building all manner of infrastructure and basically turning Persia into a client state and source of war materials. In a 1935 effort to impress Nazi Germany he even requested other nations to address his country as "Iran," Persian for Aryan. From 1939 until 1941 Nazi Germany was Iran's #1 trade partner, which ended when the Allies forced Reza Pahlavi out, installed his son Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and also removed the pro-Nazi bureaucracy.

Now, please regale us on how this was wrong. < crickets >

Unfortunately this contact with the Nazi's also included the transfer of large quantities of "educational" materials, much of which had a distinct anti-semitic flare that paralleled the Nazi influence on the Muslim Brotherhood in Palestine and Egypt that we're still dealing with.

The ties with the Nazis is why the British originally seized control of the oil in the region, Persia involved themselves in the war by supplying Germany. This is spun into an issue of "British imperialism" by people who want to blame the West for everything. And you're right, reactionary Islam began around the 30s and was influenced by many reactionary movements in Western countries.

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

it's clear to me that the US is making Iran look evil - it's propaganda. the US elite are going to make up some fictional enemy, convince the US people that Iran is a threat (if they havent already) and stage another fake attack or something. The government and the media are already trying to scare us w/ Iran's nuclear program. They'll find fake proof that Iran has many nuclear weapons even though they dont. Now the terrible iranians have shot down or gained control of a US drone flying over their airspace. this evil must be stopped (for some reason)!

[redfish]

it's clear to me that the US is making Iran look evil - it's propaganda. the US elite are going to make up some fictional enemy, convince the US people that Iran is a threat (if they havent already) and stage another fake attack or something. The government and the media are already trying to scare us w/ Iran's nuclear program. They'll find fake proof that Iran has many nuclear weapons even though they dont. Now the terrible iranians have shot down or gained control of a US drone flying over their airspace. this evil must be stopped (for some reason)!

For what, for US corporations to get Iran's oil? You know that sounds as ridiculous as when people say Iran is going to nuke us, right?

[Jason S. Global Moderator]

For what, for US corporations to get Iran's oil? You know that sounds as ridiculous as when people say Iran is going to nuke us, right?

Iran already exports a lot of oil. and why did we invade iraq or afghanistan or vietnam or korea or iraq the first time? i'm not saying it's over oil...

[redfish]

Iran already exports a lot of oil. and why did we invade iraq or afghanistan or vietnam or korea or iraq the first time? i'm not saying it's over oil...

Then would the US be bothering with propaganda? Politicians are overstating the threat that Iran will use nukes against anyone, but they're still worried that Iran having nukes will destabilize the region and that nuclear material will get into the wrong hands. They also on principle oppose the Iranian government and want to do anything possible to delegitimize it. I think this is less propaganda, in the sense of manipulated information, and more just the fact that politicians believe emotional rhetoric is more effective than intellectual discussion.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Then would the US be bothering with propaganda? Politicians are overstating the threat that Iran will use nukes against anyone, but they're still worried that Iran having nukes will destabilize the region and that nuclear material will get into the wrong hands. They also on principle oppose the Iranian government and want to do anything possible to delegitimize it. I think this is less propaganda, in the sense of manipulated information, and more just the fact that politicians believe emotional rhetoric is more effective than intellectual discussion.

See the hypocrisy in the argument?

If the US wants Iran to stop its nuclear programme, why in the blue hell, does they, themselves, have them? Why does Israel and others has them?

Why does it bother the West?

Yeah? The nukes could go in the hands of terrorists?

I tell you what, you are wrong.

First of all, if the West wants Iran to stop nuclear programme, they need to grow up, initiate the process, and destroy their own and then they can say, look, we are destroying ours, you destroy yours, lets make this planet peaceful. If then Iran doesn't stop it, then it definitely is evil

US and West wants Iran to stop the nuclear programme, so that when they actually stop it, they could easily be able to attack Iran and destroy it, just like the history has seen.

I'll leave you with this now

it's clear to me that the US is making Iran look evil - it's propaganda. the US elite are going to make up some fictional enemy, convince the US people that Iran is a threat (if they havent already) and stage another fake attack or something. The government and the media are already trying to scare us w/ Iran's nuclear program. They'll find fake proof that Iran has many nuclear weapons even though they dont. Now the terrible iranians have shot down or gained control of a US drone flying over their airspace. this evil must be stopped (for some reason)!

One of the best lines that explains the situation (Y)

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Iran doesn't need anyone to demonize them - they're doing a fine job all by themselves.

Apparently, following some western media outlets, one might get an impression that so is doing (demonizing themselves) everyone who isn't anglo-saxon, jewish, or christian.

[+Xinok Subscriber²]

In March 2005, the New York Times reported that a bipartisan Congressional inquiry concluded that the United States had inadequate intelligence to reach any conclusions on the state of Iran's nuclear program.^[397] In March 2009, the US Director of National Intelligence and Defense Intelligence Agency Director both testified before Congress that Iran did not have highly enriched uranium for bomb-making and had not made the decision to produce any, and also that Iran's missile program was not related to its nuclear program.^[398]

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Iran_nuclear_program#US_and_European_viewpoint

[redfish]

One of the best lines that explains the situation (Y)

Explains what? The Iranian government isn't a victim, maybe you should talk about the Iranian people being oppressed.

US and West wants Iran to stop the nuclear programme, so that when they actually stop it, they could easily be able to attack Iran and destroy it, just like the history has seen.

The US wants to attack Iran? Why? Do you believe the West wants want to take all their oil?

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Explains what? The Iranian government isn't a victim, maybe you should talk about the Iranian people being oppressed.

The US wants to attack Iran? Why? Do you believe the West wants want to take all their oil?

It explains that U.S. and West are deliberately making Iran look like evil.

I don't exactly remember the thread or the name of user who posted it but it said that, and very truly, ''US' aims in the region are universal''.

Its not just about oil.

And even if it was for oil, that won't be much of a surprise. Iraq, anyone?

[ylcard]

What a retarded allegation.

What's the point in stopping something that will happen in the future, only to attack it after it's stopped.

You can attack before it "happens", like - TODAY.

[redfish]

It explains that U.S. and West are deliberately making Iran look like evil.

I don't exactly remember the thread or the name of user who posted it but it said that, and very truly, ''US' aims in the region are universal''.

Its not just about oil.

And even if it was for oil, that won't be much of a surprise. Iraq, anyone?

With Iraq the concern was, partly, that the dictator there was using his oil as an economic weapon -- he used the wealth from the oil to build his nuclear program, and then used his nuclear program as a way to blackmail other countries while he worked with OPEC to raise oil prices and try to get away with actions like invading Kuwait. There would have been no concern with Iraq, and there would be no concern with Iran, if they were democracies and didn't try to use wealth from oil as leverage in diplomatic affairs.

So, its a bit more complicated than "the US is going to war for oil", just like its a bit more complicated than "Iran will use nukes against us".

I agree with the attitude that we should try to apply international rules equally to all countries, which is what you were saying above, because that's the only lasting way we can have peaceful relations, but I don't agree that the US has ulterior motives or some type of hidden or malicious agenda.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

Again, you are only saying those things that have been ranted by your governments and media for the past decade or so.

U.S. primarily, well, thats what they told the world, went to Iraq for W.M.Ds. Sorry to say but they didn't find **** there. Of course they had to come up with some explanation, which also, was all pre-planned, and thus said, we were here for Saddam. And killed the man.

You may or may not know about this, but during Iraq and Kuwait war, U.S. was fully supporting Saddam against Kuwait.

Why? What is the U.S' interest in two Arab countries?

The answer is simple.

Oil.

And as far as Iran is concerned, U.S. will surpass themselves in the foolishness if they attack Iran. Iran, in no way, is your weak old Afghanistan, Vietnam or Iraq.

About the nukes Iran's building. Well, they have every right to do it. When other countries of the world are making tons of them, why should they sit back and relax? After all, they are as much concerned about their country as you people are about yours.

I hope I made myself clear

[philixus1988]

Farrukh US supported kuwait in that war and supported iraq in iraq-iran war. If i remember correctly.

The first gulf war was for this reason. Operation desert storm took place to 'liberate' kuwaiti oil wells from saddam. And as far as pakistan's role in it is concerned pakistan sent quite a few troops to protect the said wells under the leadership of 4 star general Mirza Aslam Beg (though the spellings ought to be Baig or Beig)

BTW nice quote by Malcolm X.

Edited January 6, 2012 by philixus1988