1548 replies to this topic 8 votes

[techguy77]

PGHammer, on 26 March 2012 - 18:05, said:

Do you know *why* the desktop is unused (or as you yourself put it, underused) in Windows 7 compared to previous OSes? Simple - application publishers and developers (including Microsoft itself) got told - by their users - to stop cluttering up the desktop with application shortcuts "back in the era of NT/9x" (before Windows 2000). Office 2000 was the first product to get the hint, as, instead of creating two shortcuts (one for the Office Launch Bar, which premiered with Office 95, and a separate one for Outlook on the desktop) it created just the one for Outlook (banishing the Office Bar - a direct ancestor of the Superbar). In Office 2007 even the Outlook desktop shortcut was gone. Hence the end of desktop clutter. (Most applications (even games) have an installation option telling it NOT to create desktop shortcuts.)

It sounds (at least to me) like you are part of that group of users that, absent a Start menu, would much rather you have desktop shortcuts (or Taskbar pinnage). And, as you have discovered, Windows 8 (in either Developer Preview or Consumer Preview form) still permits both - as Windows 7 does.

My reasoning is that i like to stay on Desktop (personal preference) even on Windows 7 i pin everything i could think of on Taskbar and also i create shortcuts for games on Desktop to avoid clicking Start Orb. Same reasoning is for Windows 8. I want to avoid going back to Metro Start Screen from Desktop. Now i could care less about whole Metro look and feel (even thought i would change lot of things there). I'd rather see full integration of Desktop and Metro into one interface than having two. Also i have problem with HTML5 + JS used to write Metro Apps. Html 5 is not ready and JavaScripts are scary.

[techguy77]

Subhadip, on 26 March 2012 - 18:37, said:

You know what, I am fairly convinced Desktop and Metro will be tightly integrated by RC time. As we know, fine UI elements have traditionally been the last to be built in Windows releases, and this is no different. For CP they could only do Alt-Tab, that is seamless integration of Metro and Desktop apps right there. I would expect this to extend through to RC. Another clue is that the task switcher is very much a work-in-progress. Alt-tab already does not discriminate between Metro and Desktop apps, and neither will the final task switcher. In fact, I feel the task switcher will ultimately be redesigned and combined into the taskbar. Then we might see a single UI where Metro and Desktop apps play hand in hand, the taskbar becomes the task switcher and the Start screen is pretty much the "new desktop". As you rightly point out the desktop is mostly unused and for those who like to populate can still continue to pin files, shortcuts and folders on the Start screen, though granted it is less flexible.

The whole concept of "desktop is just another app" is just a temp placeholder till they polish Metro out and will also vanish then. If you use Alt-tab a lot, it is already very seamless switching between desktop apps and Metro apps, and I refuse to believe Alt-tab is a singular place where this level of integration of found, hence the above speculation.

Another thing, continuing the above discussion, searching for apps is pretty much the same, but searching for files is wayyyy easier! I rarely use Explorer nowadays, it is really a big time saver.

As for Event Viewer, right-click on bottom left hot corner, the power menu opens up, click Event Viewer, presto! Pretty simple.

if that is MS direction perhaps they are rushing with Windows 8. I'd rather see that final vision they had than hybrid even if that means waiting another year or so. Windows 7 would just do fine in meantime.

[Subhadip]

techguy77, on 26 March 2012 - 19:03, said:

if that is MS direction perhaps they are rushing with Windows 8. I'd rather see that final vision they had than hybrid even if that means waiting another year or so. Windows 7 would just do fine in meantime.

If they were to go for such a bold move, I am pretty sure there will be a "Classic Mode" or Win7 Mode option in there somewhere. Even with Luna/Aero which is only a minor enhancement in comparison, there was always the 9x mode with grey taskbars etc.

[PGHammer]

Brando212, on 26 March 2012 - 18:45, said:

not to mention win+r hasn't disappeared

I've been telling folks that all those WinKey shortcuts that date back to the first such keyboards (namely the Microsoft Natural Keyboard and it's direct progeny) are still around - over a third date back to prior to Windows 9x. (The Microsoft Natural Keyboard goes back to Windows for Workgroups and NT 3.5.)

Pick yourself up *any* of the Dummies Press books that cover any version of Windows (especially those by Andy Rathbone) and you will find the WinKey shortcuts covered in excruciating detail. (I have Windows 2000 Professional for Dummies - which I bought for my own use when I migrated to that OS from 98SE at home - and I later recommended it when I went to work for Big Cable Company, where I got exposure to first Windows NT, then Windows 2000 Professional, as an enterprise client.)

[xendrome]

So question.

If you are on a tablet, and on the Metro Start Screen... and want to start typing to search for an app, how do you do it. There is no on-screen keyboard button that I can see.

[Jan]

xendrome, on 26 March 2012 - 21:30, said:

So question.

If you are on a tablet, and on the Metro Start Screen... and want to start typing to search for an app, how do you do it. There is no on-screen keyboard button that I can see.

You need to use the Charms, swipe from the right then tap Search.

[xendrome]

Jan, on 26 March 2012 - 21:34, said:

You need to use the Charms, swipe from the right then tap Search.

Ok got that, second question how do i make groups on the Start Menu? like the screen shot on post 1501 of this topic or as described here - http://www.howtogeek...o-start-screen/

On a touch screen device only, (tablet) there is no icon at the bottom right of the screen to do this with.

[Jan]

xendrome, on 26 March 2012 - 22:13, said:

Ok got that, second question how do i make groups on the Start Menu? like the screen shot on post 1501 of this topic or as described here - http://www.howtogeek...o-start-screen/

On a touch screen device only, (tablet) there is no icon at the bottom right of the screen to do this with.

Pinch the screen I think.

[Dot Matrix]

Subhadip, on 26 March 2012 - 20:16, said:

If they were to go for such a bold move, I am pretty sure there will be a "Classic Mode" or Win7 Mode option in there somewhere. Even with Luna/Aero which is only a minor enhancement in comparison, there was always the 9x mode with grey taskbars etc.

It has been said over and over, that the "classic" code is GONE from Windows 8's codebase.


Not to mention so far, that none of this has appeared in any post-beta screenshots.

[PGHammer]

techguy77, on 26 March 2012 - 19:01, said:

My reasoning is that i like to stay on Desktop (personal preference) even on Windows 7 i pin everything i could think of on Taskbar and also i create shortcuts for games on Desktop to avoid clicking Start Orb. Same reasoning is for Windows 8. I want to avoid going back to Metro Start Screen from Desktop. Now i could care less about whole Metro look and feel (even thought i would change lot of things there). I'd rather see full integration of Desktop and Metro into one interface than having two. Also i have problem with HTML5 + JS used to write Metro Apps. Html 5 is not ready and JavaScripts are scary.

Windows 8's Consumer Preview didn't change that. The StartScreen replaced the Start menu - not the desktop. Unless I reboot, I don't see the StartScreen after going to the desktop the first time. Part of the problem is that if you integrate, the UI goes back to being desktop-centered rather than a universal (blended) UI - which *any* OS has to have to straddle multiple formfactors. (The issue with GNOME 3 and Unity is that they went more tablet/slate-centered than has even Windows 8 - and tablets and slates make up a smaller percentage of the non-Android Linux market than they do the Windows 7 (not 8) market.)

While I run the Consumer Preview as sole OS, I run pretty much entirely traditional applications. (The mere fact that I can do so on a beta version of Windows is unheard-of in my experience - even release candidates of Windows have issues in the backward-compatibility area - with applications, drivers, or both. The Consumer Preview, in my experience, has NO such issues.)

I've also pushed the Consumer Preview to the point where 7+SP1 would have thrown up. More applications at a time. More browser tabs - including multiple browser tabs in multiple browsers at once. If anything, I've been harder - much harder - on the Consumer Preview than I have been on Windows 7 since it went RTM - let alone since SP1 went RTW. Will it get harder yet? Pretty much a certainty, as i5-2500K is next up hardware-wise, along with at least a doubling of RAM (8 GB) if not a quadrupling (16 GB) - that also brings Hyper-V into the mix (along with extant VM solutions VirtualBox and VMware 8).

[GreyWolf]

Jan, on 26 March 2012 - 22:16, said:

Pinch the screen I think.

Yep. Any feature that uses Ctrl-MouseWheel is a pinch in/out gesture for touchscreens.

There's a downloadable booklet on Microsoft's CP page that has all the gestures and mouse equivalents in it.

[Muhammad Farrukh]

[BajiRav]

techguy77, on 26 March 2012 - 19:01, said:

My reasoning is that i like to stay on Desktop (personal preference) even on Windows 7 i pin everything i could think of on Taskbar and also i create shortcuts for games on Desktop to avoid clicking Start Orb. Same reasoning is for Windows 8. I want to avoid going back to Metro Start Screen from Desktop. Now i could care less about whole Metro look and feel (even thought i would change lot of things there). I'd rather see full integration of Desktop and Metro into one interface than having two. Also i have problem with HTML5 + JS used to write Metro Apps. Html 5 is not ready and JavaScripts are scary.

so if you have shortcuts on desktop and it is your normal workflow, how to you get to desktop without a "jarring transition" from all open windows in Windows 7? You need to click the desktop button (or Win+D) and then click shortcut on desktop? and at this point you have lost all your open windows and need to restore them one-by-one?
Sounds like,
1. Windows 8 will actually improve your workflow
2. You have one hell of a messed up desktop

[techguy77]

baji, on 27 March 2012 - 13:59, said:

so if you have shortcuts on desktop and it is your normal workflow, how to you get to desktop without a "jarring transition" from all open windows in Windows 7? You need to click the desktop button (or Win+D) and then click shortcut on desktop? and at this point you have lost all your open windows and need to restore them one-by-one?
Sounds like,
1. Windows 8 will actually improve your workflow
2. You have one hell of a messed up desktop

I only keep game shortcuts on Desktop, but applications pinned to Taskbar. So if i am going to play games i run no applications. It is organized well and i like it. Sometimes i just search for something but it stays everything on Desktop so it is good.

[amnesia-]

techguy77, on 28 March 2012 - 17:37, said:

I only keep game shortcuts on Desktop, but applications pinned to Taskbar. So if i am going to play games i run no applications. It is organized well and i like it. Sometimes i just search for something but it stays everything on Desktop so it is good.

^This.