metro Why some of us don't "embrace change" when it's not due.

[.Neo]

Mac OSX SL

-Click on the "A" button in the dock

-Click on Application

I like this one more. :p

[Active.]

The desktop. It's still there. And Microsoft are still supporting, and still updating and adding news features to desktop development.

They're also actively abandoning features. Since Vista, Microsoft had an easily accessible system-wide search overlaying a small part of the desktop environment with results grouped by category but all shown at the same time. You could right-click the result and drag them out and into another app. Now, it's gone and replaced by a less flexible fullscreen solution that's tailored for tablets. And it's not like they couldn't have improved it further. Why not add a preview function that Apple added to their solution?

Microsoft used to be the flexible solution, while Apple forced things on you. Now, MS forces a fullscreen launcher on you, while it is optional on OS X. Microsoft gets rid of their windowed desktop search, while it is kept and improved on OS X. Microsoft is abandoning desktop apps, calling them 'legacy' at least, while OS X still has the focus on them. Seriously, what is happening?! :wacko:

[~Johnny]

Microsoft used to be the flexible solution, while Apple forced things on you. Now, MS forces a fullscreen launcher on you, while it is optional on OS X. Microsoft gets rid of their windowed desktop search, while it is kept and improved on OS X. Microsoft is abandoning desktop apps, calling them 'legacy' at least, while OS X still has the focus on them. Seriously, what is happening?! :wacko:

Windows desktop search with previews :p (I actually think the ribbon makes it easier too to refine searches).

Yes they changed the start screen search - but they changed it so it also has the benefit of letting other programs integrate their own search features into it - whilst still keeping good old Windows Search alive.

Also, Microsoft is NOT abandoning desktop apps. They're still developing, and supporting development of them. Though right now their focus is making sure Immersive applications actually get off the ground, they have no intention of abandoning the the desktop.

[Active.]

Windows desktop search with previews :p (I actually think the ribbon makes it easier too to refine searches).

yeah, I expected that reply. I'd argue that that's more complicated to use and that it takes longer than using a search field implemented in the start menu.

Also, Microsoft is NOT abandoning desktop apps. They're still developing, and supporting development of them. Though right now their focus is making sure Immersive applications actually get off the ground, they have no intention of abandoning the the desktop.

As far as I know the 'live' suite is dead. Mail, Calendaring, People, Messaging, PDF-Reader. For all of that, it seems, Microsoft sees Metro as the future. The Windows Media Player and photo viewer have not been improved in Windows 8 either. Their focus seems to be on the Metro music and photo app instead. Am I wrong about this? As far as I can see, they only see a future for desktop applications that are too complex to (currently) be implemented in Metro?!

[jakem1]

yeah, I expected that reply. I'd argue that that's more complicated to use and that it takes longer than using a search field implemented in the start menu.

You might disagree but I've always thought the Start menu search was silly for anything beyond application and control panel search. It just makes no sense to cram a whole lot of disparate search results into such a tiny area and then have to click on the See more results button to launch a larger window that does the job properly. IMO the Start screen fixes this problem and improves on it by simplifying the process of filtering results by type/application.

[Active.]

You might disagree but I've always thought the Start menu search was silly for anything beyond application and control panel search.

I think it makes sense for when you have a good idea of the keywords needed to find your document. Because then, it will be among the first results. And for anything else, you could have always switched to the more comprehensive search window.

[migo]

The search in Windows Vista/7 did bring in some interesting new functionality, but for the most part I didn't like it - it took too long for the results to turn up. No point in searching for something if I can usually get to it just as quickly by typing the directory where it is in the run dialog box. Since I couldn't search for *.extension like in XP and earlier either it ended up not being that useful either.

Can't do extension searches in Windows 8 apparently either, but that could probably be added with an app to integrate fairly well (A metro version of everything.exe would be nice).

[Active.]

The search in Windows Vista/7 did bring in some interesting new functionality, but for the most part I didn't like it - it took too long for the results to turn up.

Couldn't Microsoft have improved that for Windows 8, instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water?

I really liked what King Lizzle had to say about this (first item) in the other thread.

Yes they changed the start screen search - but they changed it so it also has the benefit of letting other programs integrate their own search features into it

As long as they're Metro apps. Desktop apps don't get that feature, do they?

[~Johnny]

As long as they're Metro apps. Desktop apps don't get that feature, do they?

Desktop apps can access and use WinRT API's, but I haven't tried myself to see whether the search works so I couldn't say. It might be possible, though no one has yet done much with WinRT in Desktop apps.

[.Neo]

I still can't get over the fact how busy Windows Explorer looks. With Windows 8 it's either one end of the extreme or the other huh?

[V23]

Microsoft has set with W8!? You even said yourself that it's beta software, you have NO IDEA what W8 will actually look like until it actually hits RTM, I'll give you a little history lesson; Windows Memphis supported up to 16 monitors, Windows 98 supported up to 2.

When was the last time you saw the entire interface experience do a 180 between beta and RTM? Personally I haven't seen anything like that happen on either OS X or Windows.

What he said.

That's an extremely crucial part though: "Where it makes sense". Apple is only taking parts of iOS' functionality bringing it over to the Mac, tailoring it to the desktop in the process (for whatever reason with the exception of Launchpad; it isn't adapted at all and sucks on OS X because of that). Microsoft, on the other hand, treats desktops and tablets alike offering the exact same experience on both types of devices. To me Windows 8's Metro, in its current form, just doesn't make sense on the desktop. Just like how the traditional desktop doesn't make sense on a tablet, which is probably why Microsoft failed to be of much significance within that market.

Our opinions differ here, which is fine, but having a unified tablet and desktop OS makes sense to me (and Microsoft).

Windows 95 / 2000 / XP

Windows 95/NT4/2000 - 2

Mac OSX SL

Mac OSX SL - 2

Just sayin' ;)

Not sure what you're trying to say here but it is comparable, or easier, to open applications in Windows 8 compared to the ones you listed.

I still can't get over the fact how busy Windows Explorer looks. With Windows 8 it's either one end of the extreme or the other huh?

I have the ribbon minimised at all times unless I need to change a setting so it is almost exactly like Window 7 for me. In Windows 7 I would have to go through the menu bar, into a menu/dialog box and change it there.

[.Neo]

Our opinions differ here, which is fine, but having a unified tablet and desktop OS makes sense to me (and Microsoft).

Providing a minimally adapted traditional desktop interface on tablets also made sense to Microsoft, look where that got them. Now they're switching things around providing a tablet interface on desktops.

[Pam14160]

Only have one thing to say. . ."Dual Monitors.)

[PGHammer]

They're also actively abandoning features. Since Vista, Microsoft had an easily accessible system-wide search overlaying a small part of the desktop environment with results grouped by category but all shown at the same time. You could right-click the result and drag them out and into another app. Now, it's gone and replaced by a less flexible fullscreen solution that's tailored for tablets. And it's not like they couldn't have improved it further. Why not add a preview function that Apple added to their solution?

Microsoft used to be the flexible solution, while Apple forced things on you. Now, MS forces a fullscreen launcher on you, while it is optional on OS X. Microsoft gets rid of their windowed desktop search, while it is kept and improved on OS X. Microsoft is abandoning desktop apps, calling them 'legacy' at least, while OS X still has the focus on them. Seriously, what is happening?! :wacko:

Have you even USED Search in the Windows 8 Consumer Preview?

I can be right at the desktop (where I am at all times - the only time I see the StartScreen is when I start my computer) and hit the Windows logo key to start Search, then the first letter of what I'm searching for to use it as a parameter. The default search is for applications. Any applications. They don't have to be WinRT - all they have to be is *installed*. I use it to start any application that doesn't have a desktop shortcut and is not in QuickTask - I can even use it to launch the Windows Store.

Therefore, the StartScreen is absolutely optional - in fact, Search (for me) renders the StartScreen pretty much moot.

As you correctly pointed out, Search has been in Windows since 2000 Professional.

However, Windows 8 leverages Search (and the Index Server backbone that makes it work) better than any previous version of Windows (desktop or server) that has included it.

[cooky560 Veteran]

Have you even USED Search in the Windows 8 Consumer Preview?

I can be right at the desktop (where I am at all times - the only time I see the StartScreen is when I start my computer) and hit the Windows logo key to start Search, then the first letter of what I'm searching for to use it as a parameter. The default search is for applications. Any applications. They don't have to be WinRT - all they have to be is *installed*. I use it to start any application that doesn't have a desktop shortcut and is not in QuickTask - I can even use it to launch the Windows Store.

Therefore, the StartScreen is absolutely optional - in fact, Search (for me) renders the StartScreen pretty much moot.

As you correctly pointed out, Search has been in Windows since 2000 Professional.

However, Windows 8 leverages Search (and the Index Server backbone that makes it work) better than any previous version of Windows (desktop or server) that has included it.

Search has been in Windows Since Windows 3.1, not 2000 :p

[Active.]

Have you even USED Search in the Windows 8 Consumer Preview?

Yes.

I can be right at the desktop (where I am at all times - the only time I see the StartScreen is when I start my computer) and hit the Windows logo key to start Search, then the first letter of what I'm searching for to use it as a parameter. The default search is for applications. Any applications. They don't have to be WinRT - all they have to be is *installed*. I use it to start any application that doesn't have a desktop shortcut and is not in QuickTask - I can even use it to launch the Windows Store.

I don't see what that has to do with what I wrote. (I should probably have been clearer that I was talking about the search field integrated into the start menu)

Therefore, the StartScreen is absolutely optional - in fact, Search (for me) renders the StartScreen pretty much moot.

It's not optional since it's the first thing you see after booting up your computer.

As you correctly pointed out, Search has been in Windows since 2000 Professional.

I didn't. And Windows 2000 didn't have a search field integrated into the start menu.

However, Windows 8 leverages Search (and the Index Server backbone that makes it work) better than any previous version of Windows (desktop or server) that has included it.

OK. Whatever that's supposed to mean?!

[Eric Veteran]

I think it makes sense for when you have a good idea of the keywords needed to find your document. Because then, it will be among the first results. And for anything else, you could have always switched to the more comprehensive search window.

Desktop search is not a web search. I don't know many people that would search for applications or documents that are on their computer without their knowledge. :/

[Active.]

Desktop search is not a web search. I don't know many people that would search for applications or documents that are on their computer without their knowledge. :/

?

Just because you know that the content you're looking for is on your computer, doesn't necessarily mean you know what kind of document contains it, what its name is, or where it's located?!

[Julius Caro]

While I appreciate all of the passion on Neowin users, never in my life have I seem so much bitching and complaining about a piece of BETA software.

:D

i hate when people complain about beta software, and then there's a whole bunch of people saying "its beta software". For what its worth, it's probably feature-locked already. Or do you expect a whole revamp from microsoft if people dont like it? It's unlikely and it's never happened before, has it?

[Subhadip]

What I'd like to see is an option for making the icon larger, which would make apps with easily recognizable icons much easier to pick out.

Really, this is just beta software. By the time software devs start developing for Metro, you won't just see a large icon, you will see a live tile constantly updating with information. E.g. the Chrome live tile could maybe update with information from your home page.

[mrp04]

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this thread with the same bickering that is repeated over and over. You can use Windows 7 until it's obsolete and then you'll need to either move to the latest Windows or switch to a different OS. Windows 8 is perfectly usable as a desktop OS. I just installed it on my desktop with a 30" + 23" screen and it's great. I just go to the desktop where I spend nearly all my time. It has great enhancements like the new Explorer, file copy dialogs, task manager, and the utilities menu by pressing windows+x or right clicking in the bottom left corner. I have decided that I will for sure get a license for both my desktop and tablet once it is released. I probably won't for my HTPC unless I get it for free since it adds nothing new over Windows 7 for HTPC usage.

[Melfster]

i hate when people complain about beta software, and then there's a whole bunch of people saying "its beta software". For what its worth, it's probably feature-locked already. Or do you expect a whole revamp from microsoft if people dont like it? It's unlikely and it's never happened before, has it?

You don't know what talking about do you? I expect a lot of change Windows 8 beta to Consumer Release. Not drastic change but change never the less. It seems to me playing with the beta...A lot functions are not working all the well specially with metro apps. So I expect them to keep on working on it. We also haven't really seen preview how Office 15 really works on Windows 8 We have screen shots but no video of how works exactly. We don't know what hardware will ship with Windows 8 This is in many way windows metro 1.0.

[MFH]

E.g. the Chrome live tile could maybe update with information from your home page.

So what's the news on about:blank?

[Jebadiah]

So going back to the Start screen to select an app isn't taking you away from the main part of your computer; it may be taking you away from what you'd rather designate as the main part of your computer, but it technically isn't.

So because most people are not "technically savvy", no wonder Apple has some great times ahead.

Again, this is a beta and again, the above are small usage scenarios. But, that certainly doesn't invalidate your uses of it. With this being a beta, we may yet see some of those things return. I know Jump Lists are something that many of us found hugely useful and I wonder how you could institute that in the Metro environment. It's still in the desktop for taskbar items of course.

I do not agree. If there is something anybody should release, then make it good enough that people don't see too many faults. "Beta" is an excuse for the technically savvy. "Consumer previews" are not only for the "technically savvy".

What I think many here are missing is the bigger picture. Microsoft has engineered Windows 8 and by extension Metro to be an entity that grows more powerful as you feed it. Right now, the 95 apps that are in the market are baby food mostly. Many are incomplete as well. But, once this thing hits tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands and greater numbers of apps, it's gonna be a beast. They won't be just "tablet" apps. There will be apps as robust as what we use on the PC now. If the office team had more time, we'd see the new office as full-on Metro. But, once this baby grows into full beast-mode, what you'll be able to do will be... well I won't say unimaginable... but it will far surpass anything we've been able to do to-date.

That's what I'm excited to see.

+1 Metro apps have great potential.

[+devHead Subscriber²]

I've noticed some stuff that is simply missing from the W8 StartScreen that I user everyday in W7;

- Searching the W7 StartMenu allows right-clicking the results for context-menu actions not possible for the pinned icon - e.g. running the app via Sandboxie (as an example - not yet available for W8)

- Jumplists for incidental apps you like to have around, but not on the Taskbar - no more

- Using the Windows key to re-layer the local Taskbar on-top of other ill-behaved windows (e.g. Citrix) now results in the obvious un-needed shunt into Metro

I'm sure there are others, but these are enough to shape my view that I'd rather be using Win7 for the time being. Being open-minded is one-thing, but deprecating genuinely useful features is not progress.

Thank you! I'm glad someone else besides me misses the awesome ability to pin Apps to the Start menu in Windows 7 and having their corresponding jumplists. I do this with Word, Excel and Access. It enables me to not have to have everything on the Taskbar. Plus I have small icons on my Start menu and can have things like the Control Panel flyout menu, My Computer, and Administrative Tools flyout menus. They're compact and don't take up tons of space. All of these great features are non-existent now because the ever evolving, ever improving Start menu has be chucked for something like a big Tablet or Smartphone screen.