70 replies to this topic 3 votes

[2III7]

to all the classic shell/start button lovers is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

[UXGaurav]

htcz, on 11 April 2012 - 16:12, said:

Anyone who reads that and knows about admining a network, would literally laugh out loud.

Most of the Windows Vista networking technologies article was written by me so yes I would know a little bit at least about networking . But remember, different things matter to different people. To certain people like me, usability matters the most. Even which OS's usability is better is always subjective, I am making my opinion known on the blog. Most people who are upgrading to Vista/7 thinking newer must be better and 10-year old means trash are the ones who are clueless really. As long as you are making an informed decision, don't go calling out others ignorant just because you don't agree with their views.

[UXGaurav]

2III7, on 11 April 2012 - 16:23, said:

to all the classic shell/start button lovers is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

But who said you have to use the mouse only? Classic Shell supports typing the name of the app too if you prefer using the keyboard. It's the best of the 9x and Vista/7 style menus. Type to search feature of Vista/7 menu and the discoverability of new/unknown shortcuts whose name you don't know or forgot to type and full screen utilization of the 9x style. It doesn't expect users to use the menu only in a certain way, gives full freedom of customization.

[BajiRav]

xpclient, on 11 April 2012 - 16:33, said:

But who said you have to use the mouse only? Classic Shell supports typing the name of the app too if you prefer using the keyboard. It's the best of the 9x and Vista/7 style menus. Type to search feature of Vista/7 menu and the discoverability of new/unknown shortcuts whose name you don't know or forgot to type and full screen utilization of the 9x style. It doesn't expect users to use the menu only in a certain way, gives full freedom of customization.

that looks much better than the ugly 9x thing in op. Hopefully people will get over their metro hate now.

[majortom1981]

2III7, on 11 April 2012 - 16:23, said:

to all the classic shell/start button lovers is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

[AndyMutz]

2III7, on 11 April 2012 - 16:23, said:

to all the classic shell/start button lovers is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app?

to me it is, as i often like to use an operating system with just a mouse.
classic shell is a must for me on windows 7 and even more so on windows 8.

-andy-

[Arceles]

If I have to move to windows 8, this is the first thing that will be installed right after a clean install, until then I will stick to windows 7.

[briangw]

xpclient, on 11 April 2012 - 13:59, said:

Can you explain how the expanding Programs menu is a usability nightmare? It better utilizes screen estate in fact instead of cramping it into a tiny area with a scrollbar. The Start screen is also trying to make it go "full screen" for this reason. The one problem with flyout menus in Windows 9x was that if the mouse moved a little bit outside the menu it would close. But our menu being customizable, you can simply set the "Menu Delay" setting to a larger value like 10000 and it will never close with the mouse just moving, it will only open folders and close with a mouse click.

I've noticed that search finds things faster than the old way, so for me, it's not as much a usability nightmare than the cascading menus from before. But then again, I've been moving more towards using the keyboard and the shortcuts compared to years ago. Also, I tested Win 7 search in the start menu compared to 8 and 8 finds the apps/programs quicker.

[jakem1]

xpclient, on 11 April 2012 - 13:59, said:

Can you explain how the expanding Programs menu is a usability nightmare? It better utilizes screen estate in fact instead of cramping it into a tiny area with a scrollbar. The Start screen is also trying to make it go "full screen" for this reason. The one problem with flyout menus in Windows 9x was that if the mouse moved a little bit outside the menu it would close. But our menu being customizable, you can simply set the "Menu Delay" setting to a larger value like 10000 and it will never close with the mouse just moving, it will only open folders and close with a mouse click.

The fact that users have to move their mouses all over the screen, searching through folders, clicking here and there, aiming for tiny targets was always a bad idea. The problem you described is just one of the issues with the design but your solution forces the user to spend twice as much time clicking so it's not much of a solution.

The Vista/7 replacement is not any better because it involves clicking down through level after level within a tightly confined space. This is the same reason that Start Menu search is less than ideal in Vista/7 - there's just not enough room on the Start Menu to properly view and manage search results.

Flyout menus for things like control panel may have just barely worked in XP and earlier but there are far too many control panel items these days for that. Searching through a long list of icons for a rarely-used control panel item is not fun.

MS killed the flyout menus because they were a bad idea, not because they had nothing better to do. The one thing I hate most about XP is the all programs menu and I don't see any reason to bring it back. That's just me though and good luck to you if you want to continue with the old way of doing things.

[Dot Matrix]

majortom1981, on 11 April 2012 - 16:48, said:

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

Yes. Otherwise, they are pinned to the taskbar.

[2III7]

majortom1981, on 11 April 2012 - 16:48, said:

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

yes. seems like you have a memory problem if you can't remember the names of programs on your computer. and you have the "all apps" button for that on the start screen

[UXGaurav]

@jakem1, it looks like you have trashed the 9x style flyout menu, Vista style mouse way of clicking and scrolling to launch and Vista/7 style search. Then why do you use Windows at all? What style do you prefer of launching then? Do you mean type to launch style with full screen utilization because Classic Shell can do that too. The search box results can take up the entire screen in multiple columns or they can scroll in a single narrow column.

[MASTER260]

EDIT: nvm.

[+McKay]

The issue with the classic shell start menu is that once you've got a few things installed, it swamps the screen completely. To find a single app you have to click on a menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu.



If I have to have a startmenu swamping my screen, I'll have one that was designed from the ground up to do it right. The beauty of this baby is that if I know what I'm looking for I can simply start typing and it'll appear infront of me. If I have several things come up, I can filter between music, movies, pictures or apps on the fly.

[jakem1]

xpclient, on 11 April 2012 - 17:07, said:

@jakem1, it looks like you have trashed the 9x style flyout menu, Vista style mouse way of clicking and scrolling to launch and Vista/7 style search. Then why do you use Windows at all? What style do you prefer of launching then? Do you mean type to launch style with full screen utilization because Classic Shell can do that too. The search box results can take up the entire screen in multiple columns or they can scroll in a single narrow column.

In XP/Vista I would pin applications to the Start Menu and the Quick launch menu. In Windows 7 I pin apps to the Start Menu and the Taskbar. I can continue to do this in Windows 8. Pinning works fine for 99% of my daily use. On the odd occasion that I have to use an app that I haven't pinned I reluctantly use the all programs menu in XP and search in Vista/7.

Like McKay above, I would prefer to use the Start screen in Windows 8 than your fullscreen version of the Start menu. I don't see the point of running 3rd-party code when a suitable 1st-party version exists.