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Posted

It's just one of the first Windows RT tablets, the first of many, from many different companies. I don't see anything special that differentiates it from the Windows RT tablets that other OEMs will product.

When it is compared to the iPad, there is such a fuss that it has a "keyboard" integrated into it's case. Well guess what, just look online and you will find millions of different keyboard cases for iPad and Android. There is nothing special going on here.

It seems that Microsoft have attached a lot of hype to a product they have been working on called "Surface", which the name over to this (which is not the same "Surface" product they have been hyping) and then the tech sites seem to be getting their panties in a bunch over it when really it is just another product that isn't more special than anything else. If this was the real "Microsoft Surface" they have been working on for years that may be different, but this is just another tablet.

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Posted

It's what Windows 8/Windows RT (and the whole Metro UI) was developed for. It's the other piece of the puzzle.

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Consider this. Yes, in the grand scheme of tablets is just another player in the game. However in the specific panorama for Windows 8/RT tablets it establish an important precedent for all the W8 tablets to come: The built construction is amazing (the thing is a tank) and the included accessories are quite handy.

If other companies want to compete with this they should make something similar or better while maintaining competitive prices.

Why do you think no Android tablet is close, in terms of physical design and sturdiness, to this or the iPad? Because there was never a high standard as a precedent. People never saw better (strictly speaking about Android) so they never demanded better.

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Posted

I don't know, depends on how you look at things. Would it fit into my lifestyle/needs? No, as I am dug into the Apple ecosystem and have my iPad for my tablet needs. But as a tech head and someone who likes to see progression, I think Surface is great for what it is. Now, I haven't played with Windows 8 yet (I have 8 days off coming up and will give it a go) and the OS on these types of devices will make or break the hardware, in my opinion; moreso than desktops and even laptops.

I still feel like Microsoft is a reactionary company when it comes to mobile devices (Zune, tablet, phone) and it would be nice to see them take bigger risks...but that just isn't in the makeup of the company.

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I still feel like Microsoft is a reactionary company when it comes to mobile devices (Zune, tablet, phone) and it would be nice to see them take bigger risks...but that just isn't in the makeup of the company.

You like to see them take BIGGER risks? How could they possibly take a bigger risk than they are now? There is nothing conservative about their current work.

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Posted

It's just one of the first Windows RT tablets, the first of many, from many different companies. I don't see anything special that differentiates it from the Windows RT tablets that other OEMs will product.

Microsoft is setting the tone for all other OEM's by making their own "flagship" Windows 8 tablet. I'll be interested to see how all the OEM's respond to this.

When it is compared to the iPad, there is such a fuss that it has a "keyboard" integrated into it's case. Well guess what, just look online and you will find millions of different keyboard cases for iPad and Android. There is nothing special going on here.

All the keyboards that I've seen for the iPad are big and bulky. As far as I have seen there isn't a 3mm thin keyboard case for the iPad. What's the point of having a thin tablet when I have to carry a bulky keyboard?

It seems that Microsoft have attached a lot of hype to a product they have been working on called "Surface", which the name over to this (which is not the same "Surface" product they have been hyping) and then the tech sites seem to be getting their panties in a bunch over it when really it is just another product that isn't more special than anything else. If this was the real "Microsoft Surface" they have been working on for years that may be different, but this is just another tablet.

Pixelsense (n

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Posted

You like to see them take BIGGER risks? How could they possibly take a bigger risk than they are now? There is nothing conservative about the new Microsoft.

Somehow I dont think this is that big of a risk.

First of all they are not betting all their chips on one hand. Also they know better than anyone the underlying ecosystem, who better than them to set the hardware standard for it?

If anything this is a very well prepared and calculated move.

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Posted

You like to see them take BIGGER risks? How could they possibly take a bigger risk than they are now? There is nothing conservative about their current work.

I never said they were conservative?

And I don't think Metro is that big of a deal. Its a new, apparently efficient way to launch apps. But there still is a desktop, there still is a filesystem, we still will be fiddling with drivers, etc.

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Posted

I don't see other tablets out there running Ivy Bridge and a full fledge OS. That's whats interesting for me, and the keyboard case is a plus.

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Posted

It's just one of the first Windows RT tablets, the first of many, from many different companies. I don't see anything special that differentiates it from the Windows RT tablets that other OEMs will product.

When it is compared to the iPad, there is such a fuss that it has a "keyboard" integrated into it's case. Well guess what, just look online and you will find millions of different keyboard cases for iPad and Android. There is nothing special going on here.

It seems that Microsoft have attached a lot of hype to a product they have been working on called "Surface", which the name over to this (which is not the same "Surface" product they have been hyping) and then the tech sites seem to be getting their panties in a bunch over it when really it is just another product that isn't more special than anything else. If this was the real "Microsoft Surface" they have been working on for years that may be different, but this is just another tablet.

A pretty big differentiator is that every OEM makes ****ty hardware.

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Posted

Although I think it's neat I think I'd rather have a Retina MacBook Pro than the Surface Tablet. I think I'd be more productive with a real notebook than a tablet with a keyboard attachment.

I'm actually starting to think (and keep in mind I own an iPad) that this finger touch stuff might just be good for smart phones and may not do so well in Notebooks, Desktops and Tablet form factors for getting actual work done. I don't know about you guys but I find typing on a touch screen cumbersome and annoying. It's much slower and when you type on the screen you lose a lot of your application to the keyboard which in my opinion makes me less productive. I love my iPad for consumption (Browsing Web, Email, Games, Videos etc) but for actually using it for anything where I'm creating content or editing content even something as simple as writing a reply on Neowin is annoying.

I know that Microsoft feels they have fixed this by providing a snap on keyboard but all it has really done is taken the fat base of a laptop and put it behind a screen and then taken the thin screen of a laptop and put a keyboard there.

To illustrate:

EOJzP.png

I did think it was quite neat when I first saw it but after thinking about my usage scenarios I don't think it would benefit me at all. I could take the money I'd spend on one of these (which Microsoft says is going to be completive with Ultrabooks not iPads) and buy well.. an ultrabook.

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Posted

And for me this is the first tablet that really interests me.

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Posted

I don't know, depends on how you look at things. Would it fit into my lifestyle/needs? No, as I am dug into the Apple ecosystem and have my iPad for my tablet needs.

Just wondering... How much money have you spent into the Apple ecosystem? At what point would you be willing to switch?

I still feel like Microsoft is a reactionary company when it comes to mobile devices (Zune, tablet, phone) and it would be nice to see them take bigger risks...but that just isn't in the makeup of the company.

I think that Microsoft has taken one of the biggest risks in the company's history with Metro. They are betting everything on it: Windows, Office, Windows Phone, Xbox and their cloud services.

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Posted

Well, because - comparing with surface pro...

1. Most other tablets have ****ty build quality.

2. Most are underpowered (even iPad considering this one has a ivy bridge processor)

3. Most of the keypads available are not 3mm thin and are bulky.

4. Most do not have USB ports. The pro version has USB 3. This is a big advantage.

5. This has a full fledged Windows 8 pro OS loaded. Can do almost anything that can be dne on a desktop.

6. Working would be a lot easier considering the keypad. Typing on touch screen is horrible compared to a keyboard.

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Posted

The prospect of Microsoft having a go at the closed platform market is more interesting (and potentially worrying) to me than this one product.

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Posted

Although I think it's neat I think I'd rather have a Retina MacBook Pro than the Surface Tablet. I think I'd be more productive with a real notebook than a tablet with a keyboard attachment.

I'm actually starting to think (and keep in mind I own an iPad) that this finger touch stuff might just be good for smart phones and may not do so well in Notebooks, Desktops and Tablet form factors for getting actual work done. I don't know about you guys but I find typing on a touch screen cumbersome and annoying. It's much slower and when you type on the screen you lose a lot of your application to the keyboard which in my opinion makes me less productive. I love my iPad for consumption (Browsing Web, Email, Games, Videos etc) but for actually using it for anything where I'm creating content or editing content even something as simple as writing a reply on Neowin is annoying.

I know that Microsoft feels they have fixed this by providing a snap on keyboard but all it has really done is taken the fat base of a laptop and put it behind a screen and then taken the thin screen of a laptop and put a keyboard there

Well, dont judge before trying... it looks good so it may be good...

As for the keyboard... you mean to say other Tablets are not like this??? like the iPad... is it not thick!!!

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Posted

Although I think it's neat I think I'd rather have a Retina MacBook Pro than the Surface Tablet. I think I'd be more productive with a real notebook than a tablet with a keyboard attachment.

Ultrabooks are the laptop competitors, not surface. Remember, they only said it was a 20% increase over glass. (but more importantly has a mouse) This is a left-right aimed squarely at the iPad. In this case, the rigid nature of the iPad allows MS to be more flexible, as usual.

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Posted

Well, because - comparing with surface pro...

1. Most other tablets have ****ty build quality.

2. Most are underpowered (even iPad considering this one has a ivy bridge processor)

3. Most of the keypads available are not 3mm thin and are bulky.

4. Most do not have USB ports. The pro version has USB 3. This is a big advantage.

5. This has a full fledged Windows 8 pro OS loaded. Can do almost anything that can be dne on a desktop.

6. Working would be a lot easier considering the keypad. Typing on touch screen is horrible compared to a keyboard.

By saying the iPad is under powered your saying it fails at a task it should be able to do?

I've not hit a single bottleneck with my iPad(3rd)..therefore, it has enough power to do what it needs to do.. not everything is about numbers, it's about being able to handle what you can possibly throw at it, which the ipad does very well.. why over spec something when it's not needed?

Also, the pro version can barely be compared to a tablet, it's almost just a laptop.

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Well, dont judge before trying... it looks good so it may be good...

As for the keyboard... you mean to say other Tablets are not like this??? like the iPad... is it not thick!!!

I think I said what I said. I guess after owning a tablet I'm just over them in general. I can't see myself upgrading to a newer iPad or buying a competitors tablet either. I do wonder what the future holds for this whole market cause in my personal experience I feel quite over them and I'm ready to go back to a notebook. Maybe tablets are destined to be the next netbook and by that I mean insane sales projected to take over the whole market then in just a few short years petered out in to nothing.

But I'm hardly the representative of a generation these are just my personal thoughts and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just what I feel.

Ultrabooks are the laptop competitors, not surface.

Someone should tell Microsoft that as they keep saying the Surface will have competitive pricing to Ultrabooks, not tablets.

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By saying the iPad is under powered your saying it fails at a task it should be able to do?

I've not hit a single bottleneck with my iPad(3rd)..therefore, it has enough power to do what it needs to do.. not everything is about numbers, it's about being able to handle what you can possibly throw at it, which the ipad does very well.. why over spec something when it's not needed?

Also, the pro version can barely be compared to a tablet, it's almost just a laptop.

Agreed... but it is a tablet none the less... not a laptop... but it can do most things you can do on a laptop... an advantage.

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I think I said what I said. I guess after owning a tablet I'm just over them in general. I can't see myself upgrading to a newer iPad or buying a competitors tablet either. I do wonder what the future holds for this whole market cause in my personal experience I feel quite over them and I'm ready to go back to a notebook. Maybe tablets are destined to be the next netbook insane sales projected to take over the whole market then in just a few short years petered out in to nothing.

But I'm hardly the representative of a generation these are just my personal thoughts and I'm not saying I'm right, it's just what I feel.

Someone should tell Microsoft that as they keep saying the Surface will have competitive pricing with Ultrabooks, not tablets.

Yes agreed... even I am not much of a tablet guy... more of a notebook guy... but this factor will hit all tablet makers...

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Although I think it's neat I think I'd rather have a Retina MacBook Pro than the Surface Tablet. I think I'd be more productive with a real notebook than a tablet with a keyboard attachment.

I'm actually starting to think (and keep in mind I own an iPad) that this finger touch stuff might just be good for smart phones and may not do so well in Notebooks, Desktops and Tablet form factors for getting actual work done. I don't know about you guys but I find typing on a touch screen cumbersome and annoying. It's much slower and when you type on the screen you lose a lot of your application to the keyboard which in my opinion makes me less productive. I love my iPad for consumption (Browsing Web, Email, Games, Videos etc) but for actually using it for anything where I'm creating content or editing content even something as simple as writing a reply on Neowin is annoying.

I know that Microsoft feels they have fixed this by providing a snap on keyboard but all it has really done is taken the fat base of a laptop and put it behind a screen and then taken the thin screen of a laptop and put a keyboard there.

To illustrate:

[Pic]

I did think it was quite neat when I first saw it but after thinking about my usage scenarios I don't think it would benefit me at all. I could take the money I'd spend on one of these (which Microsoft says is going to be completive with Ultrabooks not iPads) and buy well.. an ultrabook.

I think you're confusing the Surface's purpose and target audience. It isn't meant to be replacing laptops, because it isn't a laptop. You're right when you say typing on a touch screen inefficient, slow and not always accurate. So Microsoft have thought why not put a keyboard and trackpad into the case.

My mum had an iPad and a case that turns into a stand. She also has a Apple Bluetooth keyboard. 90% of the time she uses it to do some work, she has the case in the stand formation and the keyboard to type with. The rest of the time, it's just like a usual tablet and she uses the screen for everything.

I objectively think Microsoft's idea to add a kick stand and a keyboard into the case is a really nifty idea. Solves having to splash out for a bluetooth keyboard AND having to bring it with you if you need it, because it's right there in your case, ready when you need it. Perfect for those occasions when you may want a keyboard to type out something.

I am genuinely interested in the Surface, and hope it is successful, because for us consumers, it will mean Apple and Google will have competition that will force them into being more innovative, more competitive with each other and at the end of the day, us consumers win with more variety of Tablets to choose from, higher quality tablets that are faster, battery lasts longer, easier to use and have a low amount of bugs.

So even if you don't care about Surface because Apple caters for your needs or Android does it for you, Microsoft's Surface and the OEM's who decide to make RT or tablets with 8 Pro are making the your company work harder to give your a better experience.

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Posted

From the sounds of things, the Surface tablet might be vapourware.

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Although I think it's neat I think I'd rather have a Retina MacBook Pro than the Surface Tablet. I think I'd be more productive with a real notebook than a tablet with a keyboard attachment.

I'm actually starting to think (and keep in mind I own an iPad) that this finger touch stuff might just be good for smart phones and may not do so well in Notebooks, Desktops and Tablet form factors for getting actual work done. I don't know about you guys but I find typing on a touch screen cumbersome and annoying. It's much slower and when you type on the screen you lose a lot of your application to the keyboard which in my opinion makes me less productive. I love my iPad for consumption (Browsing Web, Email, Games, Videos etc) but for actually using it for anything where I'm creating content or editing content even something as simple as writing a reply on Neowin is annoying.

I know that Microsoft feels they have fixed this by providing a snap on keyboard but all it has really done is taken the fat base of a laptop and put it behind a screen and then taken the thin screen of a laptop and put a keyboard there.

To illustrate:

EOJzP.png

I did think it was quite neat when I first saw it but after thinking about my usage scenarios I don't think it would benefit me at all. I could take the money I'd spend on one of these (which Microsoft says is going to be completive with Ultrabooks not iPads) and buy well.. an ultrabook.

A valid argument but I think an incorrect one. Tablets are always considered as a digital consumption device, laptops being (arguably) a productive device. What the Surface does is try and merge the 2. You would not pick up a laptop (or ultrabook for that matter) to quickly browse media or the web (taking consideration of the wake/boot process as well).

Simply put, touch-screen ultrabooks at the moment don't make much sense, but Microsoft intelligently wants you to be productive on a tablet.

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Posted

I think you're confusing the Surface's purpose and target audience. It isn't meant to be replacing laptops, because it isn't a laptop. You're right when you say typing on a touch screen inefficient, slow and not always accurate. So Microsoft have thought why not put a keyboard and trackpad into the case.

So even if you don't care about Surface because Apple caters for your needs or Android does it for you, Microsoft's Surface and the OEM's who decide to make RT or tablets with 8 Pro are making the your company work harder to give your a better experience.

I get that the surface is a competitive tablet to the iPad. But the way I feel, I don't even like my iPad that much anymore because it's so useless. I can't do anything of substance on it. It's just a way to consume information a window if you will. It isn't so great at actually producing any kind of content. Not just due to the input method (touch screen) but because of the apps being so dumb and so unaware of eachother. It is difficult to move something you're working on from one app to another in a non-destructive format. It isn't like I can take a .psd from my desktop and modify it on my iPad or something like that you know?

And I feel that although the surface tries to fix many of my complaints with my iPad by giving us a physical keyboard it still has other limitations that make me question the whole tablet ecosystem. I just think I can be much more productive with a mouse and keyboard on a laptop designed to be a laptop and not a device like the surface which is straddling the line between portable tablet and make-shift notebook. And keep in mind that Microsoft have said to a number of publications that the Surface Pro (the only one that can run x86 software and has a desktop environment usable by 3rd party software) will cost the same as an Ultrabook. That is very expensive when I could just buy an ultrabook anyway and use it for a lot more stuff.

And if I got the iPad priced one the ARM based Surface then I'm basically stuck with the same software complaints I have with the iPad in that the apps don't feel very advanced and aren't that aware of eachother etc.

I'm not putting the surface down for entering the tablet market. I just think the tablet market is something I'm no longer interested in after owning an iPad for about a year. I guess I've had my fill of this whole category of device and now I'm much more inclined to just buy a new Notebook. An ultrabook in fact.

So for all these reasons I'm just underwhelmed by the surface now that I've had time to think about it in more depth since the unveiling. But this isn't unique to the Surface I'd feel the same way if Apple introduced a new iPad.

A valid argument but I think an incorrect one.

Valid and incorrect? :p

Look I agree with you that tablets are for consumption. But Microsoft is pricing this new tablet of theirs in with creational devices like Ultrabooks. And they are wanting it to do everything but I don't think it will do much of anything better than an Ultrabook would. And that becomes even more true when you consider the same apps that run on these tablets will run on any Ultrabook once you install Windows 8.

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