Defcon, on 06 August 2012 - 01:37, said:
Have you ever used iOS or Android on a non-touch device? They are mobile OS's, WIndows is NOT. There is a huge difference, what you said applies to WP7/WP8, and not at all to a desktop/enterprise OS. Have you ever used Win 8 on a normal pc? Or seen a normal user try to? It's a usability nightmare.
I have been doing this nearly all day every day for years, and so have countless others, with no sign of a "usability nightmare" anywhere (including countless usability studies
). This is a common tactic from the vocal minority to try and invent non-existent problems extrapolated to the majority in order to make a case. It's important not to confuse this with reality.
Good design is unobtrusive, and functional. Good design is what makes the user more productive, not just what looks pretty.
Exactly. This is precisely the goal in getting rid of "chrome" and making that functionality globally and consistently available only when needed/useful/called-for.
'Win 8 is designed for Metro' is exactly the problem because MS's implementation of Metro on non-touch is terrible. And guess what, a mediocre design which is consistent is still crap. e.g. if an OS required you to click 5 times to close a window, and used that consistently everywhere, that doesn't make it good.
This is a straw man. Nobody makes you click 5 times to close a window, and "closing a window" isn't even a scenario, it's a way in which particular scenarios have been implemented in the past.
Defcon, on 06 August 2012 - 08:03, said:
Microsoft has made this mistake before, when they tried to force the desktop UI, complete with Start menu and tiny controls, on tiny Windows Mobile devices. Not everything is a pc. But they learnt nothing. Now they are trying to pretend that everything is a tablet.
I don't follow. First you're saying that Microsoft made a mistake in the past by trying to "force" a desktop UI onto a phone/PDA. This alone I would actually argue against, as someone who owned many Windows Mobile devices - and thus knows that they didn't follow a desktop metaphor at all (i.e. there were no overlapping windows, no taskbar, no desktop, etc.). Yes it had an always available "Start" button, but it was only superficially related in any way to the desktop Start button, and showed a full-screen
(or nearly so) menu.
Second, Windows 8 does exactly the opposite of what you accuse Windows Mobile of having done. Instead of taking a "desktop UI" as you call it and "forcing" it (as you say) onto a new kind of device, we very clearly decided not
to do that, which is exactly what many folks here are objecting to! Instead we created something brand new, designed to bridge the gap between desktop and mobile. The two objections are mutually exclusive :-)
In no other industry do people pretend that all devices and form factors should have the same UI.
So cars, trucks, and motorcycles are all steered in completely different ways?
Imagine how terrible it'd be web sites suddenly decided to show the mobile version on your pc.
This is a poor analogy. This would make a lot of sense on a small screen PC, but obviously would not on a large screen, by definition. What you're calling a "mobile version" is really just a website designed exclusively for tiny screens, usually to make up for the fact that they're "normal" site was not designed to scale down that far. Of course, some websites are designed to have a single version which accommodates all screen sizes (the "mobile" and "normal" versions are the same).
That's what Metro and Win 8 is like, hiding all advanced functions and forcing a tablet metaphor on everyone.
You're making an assumption that Windows 8 would not look and work the same even if tablets did not exist. There's no such thing as a "tablet metaphor" by the way. There's a desktop metaphor, many aspects of which are clearly outdated (but will take time to evolve and replace). But things like full-screen apps, and system UI that fades into the background but is always globally accessible... These aren't really metaphors at all.