Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

[testman]

Win8 was designed around a computer paradigm shift, not previous versions of windows. Wait until it launches with touchscreen ultrabooks and then see how you feel about the OS.

Agreed on current hardware it offers nothing more than Win7 can.

Exactly this. Windows Icons Mouse and Pointer are dead. There is NO going back, it really is as simple as that.

[MajorSham]

I wonder if people reacted the same way to 95 / NT4 and the new Taskbar / Start Menu. Did people swear to not give up Program Manager until it was pried from their cold dead hands? Some people still cling to it.

If you do not like Windows 8:

1) Keep using Windows XP or Windows 7.

a. Microsoft will likely not support Windows 7 nearly as long as they supported XP.

b. Eventually software/hardware support will force you to chose between current technology or sticking with what is compatible with your OS of choice.

c. It is possible that Microsoft could add the classic Start Menu back in to Windows at some point, but I wouldn't bet on it.

2) Switch to Mac or a different PC OS.

a. The grass always looks greener on the other side.

b. It's not. The problems will not be the same, but they will exist nonetheless.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I am worried.

I have been concerned that this version of Windows is nothing more than a pointless makeover and have sworn that I won't be swayed by the opinion others - and that I will form my own opinions.

But it's hard not to listen to comments from folks like Vice several pages back, who make very good points, and be alarmed at where Windows is going. The point about lacking a feature like Time Machine is a very good one.. there are folks on here who simply cannot see past their fanboyism and cannot concede that Apple make ANYTHING good. However as an ex-iMac owner, I did used to use Time Machine and it was AWESOME. It's a great feature. Why have Microsoft not implemented anything as good as this to make backups something you simply do not need to think about? Why are they concentrating on visual guff when there are other features which could be getting written, that are not?

Again.. I'll reserve judgement till I try it. But I am not feeling good about it..

[Subhadip]

new features well to start with

- Start screen, easier and more organized view of your favorite pinned apps (don't compare it to all apps, that's another layer in). With the ability to sort your apps into named groups.

- Metro apps and -

- App store

- New task manager

- Overall far better performance.

- better function for detecting new apps that can open file types

- updated graphics driver model, now you get DWM(aero) even in software/classic mode

- Far improved Multi monitor support

- New restore functions, enabling a full reset to factory standards on all installations with no fuss.

- Live accoutn and cloud features built in.

- Sync your desktop across computers/devices

- Storage spaces

- faster boot time.

And much more.

Vista didn't bomb, and before 7 was the fastest selling windows OS. Just because you didn't like what was a perfectly good OS doesn't mean it bombed.

Ignoring Metro, just concentrating on Desktop, Windows 7 to Windows 8 looks like much more of an upgrade than Vista SP1 to 7 to me.

I am worried.

I have been concerned that this version of Windows is nothing more than a pointless makeover and have sworn that I won't be swayed by the opinion others - and that I will form my own opinions.

But it's hard not to listen to comments from folks like Vice several pages back, who make very good points, and be alarmed at where Windows is going. The point about lacking a feature like Time Machine is a very good one.. there are folks on here who simply cannot see past their fanboyism and cannot concede that Apple make ANYTHING good. However as an ex-iMac owner, I did used to use Time Machine and it was AWESOME. It's a great feature. Why have Microsoft not implemented anything as good as this to make backups something you simply do not need to think about? Why are they concentrating on visual guff when there are other features which could be getting written, that are not?

I suspect you haven't read about Windows 8's new File History feature at all? It does everything Time Machine can, in a simpler and more streamlined manner. For that matter, Windows Vista had Previous Versions and Backup features as well.

[cork1958]

Obviously, OP never used Vista.

Now, THERE was a great reason to downgrade, which is EXACTLY why Windows XP is still hanging on so well. Windows 7 is sweet and will probably be around longer than XP, if the masses feel the same about Windows 8 as they did about Vista, which I DO see happening!

Personally,

I could go either way on Windows 8. It's NOT the cat's meow so much so that I will be upgrading any time soon though. I also feel like MS is just cashing in on the tablet thing, which I can't them for, but there is absolutely NO reason for a new OS already, period! MS should just buy Lindows, if that's still around. Then they would have a reason to be coming out with a new OS every 6 freaking months!!

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I suspect you haven't read about Windows 8's new File History feature at all? It does everything Time Machine can, in a simpler and more streamlined manner. For that matter, Windows Vista had Previous Versions and Backup features as well.

Great! So I just plug in an external drive and say "Use this for backups" and don't have to do anything else?

[Guest Sasa_RI]

Here is a good list of the features and configuration options removed from 8:

???Start Menu has been removed. Here's how the Start Menu was superior to the Start Screen:

- No full-screen requirement, it doesn't disturb your workflow and gets out of the way quickly

- Had quick access to shutdown commands

- Special folders 1 click away and expandable

- Expandable Recent documents

- Start Menu jump lists for pinning documents associated with that program

- Frequently used programs list

- Neatly organized All Programs list by folders

- Does not cover the Taskbar and the notification area

- Search results are in a single unified list of Programs, Files and Settings for easy up/down keyboard navigation but still neatly categorized

- Context menu options of our choice not present in Start screen. Whatever limited context menu actions Start Screen has are at the bottom of the screen which means more movement between the tile and the bottom actions

- No context menu options available at all for settings and files on the Start screen

- Launch multiple apps quickly by holding down Shift (Classic Start Menu of 9x and Classic Shell has this feature)

- Less items fit on the screen at a time due to the large size which means more scrolling unnecessarily for keyboard and mouse users

- The hot corner has poor discoverability

???Built-in (Microsoft provided) DVD playback in Windows Media Player will not be available on the Windows 8 platform even with addition of the Media Center Pack

???Device Manager no longer shows Non-Plug and Play Drivers/hidden devices. The "Devmgr_Show_NonPresent_Devices=1' environment variable has no effect.

???Applications can no longer programmatically configure, change or query file associations or set themselves during installation as the default for a file type or protocol!

???Explorer metadata/property handler for media files is removed which means the Details pane won't show those nice properties

???Many commands are missing on the Ribbon which were there on Explorer command bar like Compatibility Files, View Remote Printers etc and others for special folders and namespace extensions. They just forgot to add these to these commands!

???Reduced productivity: The menu bar in Windows Explorer has been removed and replaced with the unproductive Ribbon interface. Keyboard usability of the Ribbon is poor because in a menu, the first letter of any menu command or Alt+keyboard combination key is easier to read sequentially as it is placed in a row either horizontally or vertically. Mouse usability of the Ribbon and discoverability of commands is also poor, because unlike in a menu, where you can switch from one menu to another without clicking again, the Ribbon tabs do not activate unless you click again. The File menu also showed context menu commands but the File button on the Ribbon does not show these. Commands in the menu can be static (always available) irrespective of the location you are at in Explorer or they can be contextual like the File menu. In contrast, commands on the Ribbon are all contextual meaning you have to navigate to a certain location to use that Ribbon command.

???The ability to boot directly to the desktop and not load the Metro components in memory is not there. Items in various startup locations (Registry, startup folder etc) are all loaded with a delay of few seconds with no way to load them instantly.

???The Lock screen is the place where you can now display custom background instead of the Logon screen, but unlike the Logon screen, there seems to be no way to programmatically change or cycle through a group of images for the Lock screen background. It must be set manually by the user from PC settings on the Start screen.

???The "Unblock" button previously available on the file properties dialog for unblocking downloaded files (removing the NTFS Alternate Data Stream from the downloaded file) has been removed.

???Running Internet Explorer purely in 64-bit mode is not possible unless Enhanced Protected Mode is enabled which disables all addons. Otherwise, 64-bit IE10 opens 32-bit tabs.

???Search option to use natural language search has been removed.

???Mouse control panel option to allow or disallow themes to change mouse pointers is removed from the GUI.

???File operations like Rename, Delete can no longer be undone for UAC-protected locations

???Security Essentials settings for configuring default actions or real-time protection have been removed. (Security Essentials is now built-in as Windows Defender)

???In a dual boot scenario, the ability to directly boot into another OS besides Windows 8 is slowed down because the new Windows 8 boot shell/loader reboots to load the other operating system

???Windows Update settings for showing notifications and allowing all users to install updates have been removed. Windows Update no longer notifies with a balloon notification that there are new updates available.

???Sound events for 'Exit Windows', 'Windows Logon' and 'Windows Logoff' are removed

???People Near Me P2P API is removed

???WinHelp has been completely discontinued. No download will be available.

???MSConfig's Startup tab has been killed and replaced by the Task Manager's Startup tab that doesn't have the 'Location' column which was useful for example to know if the process started from HKCU or HKLM.

???Previous Versions for Shadow Copies is removed. The half-baked replacement is the File History feature which is only for certain file types (documents, music, videos and pictures) in Libraries, desktop and browser favorites. Previous Versions worked for any generic file type in any folder. File History does not even support EFS-encrypted files! File History is supposed to replace both "Previous Versions for Shadow Copies" as well as "Windows Backup and Restore" and it doesn't do 100% of either of the features it "replaces".

???Advanced Appearance settings which let you adjust colors, sizes and fonts are removed

???Explorer copy engine issue: Folder conflict prompt when merging/overwriting folders is removed. Explorer silently merges subfolders in a copy operation, you cannot choose entire subfolders to skip or overwrite

???Explorer status bar removes the ability to show important details. It is now a private undocumented control (DirectUI) so it also doesn't allow Explorer addons like Classic Shell to show information like free disk space, total size of items without selection, computer zone, infotip information as it could on a standard status bar control.

???Explorer: Ability to enable both Details pane and Preview pane simultaneously in Explorer for display of file metadata as well as preview, or, Details pane to be always shown and only the Preview pane toggled is gone

???Flip 3D is gone

???Chkdsk when run at startup does not display any information about file system repairs besides % complete. The screen with scanning and correction details is gone when Chkdsk runs at startup and replaced by just a % complete.

???Pen and Touch Input Desktop features no longer included. Some buttons ('num', 'sym' and 'web) are removed from the Handwriting input panel and UI changes to it require more clicks for example to switch from handwriting to keyboard, or access the editing commands (join, split, delete). It is now touch-friendly but no longer stylus-friendly.

???Network Map feature and some network profile management UI from Network and Sharing Center is missing

???Memory addresses and other technical information has been removed from the Windows 8 bug check screen (BSOD)

???The new Task Manager is missing many features of the old one. (http://social.techne...f6-90c46b13c10c)

???View Available Networks (VAN) UI has been crippled with access to the most important dialog: the Network's Status removed. The VAN UI now covers the notification area icons unnecessarily and the Metro look is out of place on the Aero desktop

???The AutoPlay dialog removes the option to always open a particular program based on the file type

???The Open With dialog breaks the NoInternetOpenWith and NoFileAssociate Group Policies and browsing for a program with the redesigned Open With dialog requires three clicks instead of just one.

???The Windows Error Reporting dialog for reporting/debugging crashes does not save the state of "View details"

???Wireless NICs no longer have in-box drivers for hosted/virtual Wi-Fi whose virtual adapter used to be automatically enabled on Windows 7

???Windows CardSpace is not installed even after installing .NET 3.0/3.5

???The keyboard shortcut for Windows Mobility Center has been removed. Previously, Win+X brought it up, now it brings up the power user context menu.

???Desktop games (no word on whether they will be included or dropped in favor of Metro-style games):

?? ???Chess Titans

?? ???FreeCell

?? ???Hearts

?? ???Solitaire

?? ???Spider Solitaire

?? ???Minesweeper

?? ???Mahjong Titans

?? ???Purble Place

???Windows DVD Maker is removed

???Windows Briefcase

???Windows Gadget Platform is intact but no gadgets to download as the online Gadget Gallery was killed for Windows Vista and Windows 7 users as well.

???Some remoting apps that use mirror drivers or some features of mirror drivers for remoting scenarios, accessibility, or desktop duplication may no longer be supported due to the changes required to be made to Desktop Window Manager.

???Some Audio Compression Manager (ACM) components are broken resulting in ACM-based apps being unable to do format conversion.

Deprecated but not yet removed:

??? Windows Backup and Restore is deprecated. Although the feature is still intact, shell integration of Backup features is removed.

???The command line tools, DiskPart.exe, DiskRAID.exe, and the Disk Management GUI are being deprecated and replaced by the WMIv2-based Windows Storage Management API with the Storage PowerShell command line utility. Dynamic Disks are being deprecated as part of this transition. (GUI for Disk Management deprecated and replaced by command line? - way to go!)

???Subsystem for UNIX-based applications is deprecated

???Some Transactional NTFS (TxF) APIs like savepoints, secondary RM, miniversion and roll forward

Link to the original tread http://social.techne...0a-53134a0913f3

[windows95isg8]

Well good for you <snipped>. But going back to 1995 is a Wast of time because doing so your missing out on all the improvements 2012 has to Offer and i will post them for you from another users

new features well to start with

- Start screen, easier and more organized view of your favorite pinned apps (don't compare it to all apps, that's another layer in). With the ability to sort your apps into named groups.

- Metro apps and -

- App store

- New task manager

- Overall far better performance.

- better function for detecting new apps that can open file types

- updated graphics driver model, now you get DWM(aero) even in software/classic mode

- Far improved Multi monitor support

- New restore functions, enabling a full reset to factory standards on all installations with no fuss.

- Live accoutn and cloud features built in.

- Sync your desktop across computers/devices

- Storage spaces

- faster boot time.

And much more.

So many things more you will miss out on . Sorry to Hear <snipped> that you had Trouble copping with Change and new technologies and things related to it but i guess the Future is not for your <snipped> mind.

It doesn't work for you on the Desktop cause your still stuck on the logon Boot screen trying to figure out how to log in to your system . Took me all of 3 sec to figure that out and took me all of 3 mins to figure Metro out and how to multi-task with it and how to name groups of apps and icons and all that very simple and works very well for K/M despite what you think

1995? What drugs are you taking lol.. Look you like Windows 8 and It's not for me, I don't need you to list whats better about it because I already know.. However I feel there not changes I require, want or need.. End of basically.

[+Fahim S. MVC]

Great! So I just plug in an external drive and say "Use this for backups" and don't have to do anything else?

Well, yes....

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/132628-using-file-history-windows-8s-built-in-backup-tool

[Som]

something happened to me when i installed the RTM, the graphics drivers hadn't been installed so the resolution wasn't very high, and while i was downloading updated drivers I tried out the music app and it said it didn't support low resolutions and wouldn't start.... i suppose its not a big deal, i just found it odd they'd put a limit on it...

completely off topic I see that the next version of android will have multi-user and even android 4.1 has safe mode ha... if they made support for desktop architecture it would be fun to try out, been so customizable and all :)

1995? What drugs are you taking lol.. Look you like Windows 8 and It's not for me, I don't need you to list whats better about it because I already know.. However I feel there not changes I require, want or need.. End of basically.

agree with you completely, we who don't like are attacked for some reason by those who do. It's like they're afraid it will fail or somethin :p , i'll be skipping it too (first time i've ever skipped one) and this is coming from someone used Windows ME for a full year lol ...

... oh and its not that we can't use it, we can use it fine, its that we don't like it....

[Guest]

I don't understand why people bragging about using Windows since 3.11 have problems using Windows 8. I use Windows since 95 and I must say even metro is very diferente from what we are used to, it's not difficult at all for me to work with. In fact, with only one day use I'm adapting very well. I'm sure the average user will have a hard time, but it's all part of the evolution. If Microsoft does not take risks we were still using some form of Windows 98 or 3.11. I for one am enjoying Windows 8 even there are some things I dont like. It will improve and Windows 9 will be better.

[Wakers]

I think the sad thing is that a lot of people have a real aversion to change on any sort of scale.

People didn't like (and still don't) the ribbon UI on Office. And yet, once you've gotten used to it, it's far more productive than the old menu system.

People complained about the superbar.

People complained when they changed the XP start menu.

When I first saw the changes in Windows 8, I was very suspicious. But you know what? I tried it. I didn't give up after five minutes, I didn't give up after 30 minutes. I used it for a week and then I went back to Windows 7. That was a couple of months ago. You know what? I still miss the setup I had on Windows 8 with the start screen. Because I had properly learnt how to use it, find the tips and productivity boosts, and now Windows 7 falls short.

Does that mean Windows 7 is bad? No, it's fantastic.

It just means that people who say "Windows 8 only works properly on tablets" or "Windows 8 kills productivity" are just being close-minded and irrational. They haven't tried the OS with an open-mind or neutral opinion. They've gone in thinking it's crap, and then immediately looked for everything they can no longer do / find in the same way and said "this sucks because I have to spend 30 seconds learning a new way around the OS."

[.Neo]

By the way, why does it say "Windows 7 File Recovery" in Windows 8 RTM control panel?

The Windows team really doesn't care for detail or they simply lack the expertise. They roughly implemented the general idea and pretty much stopped there.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

Well, yes....

http://www.extremete...-in-backup-tool

Cool... looks like I'll have to do some tinkering as I don't use the built-in Windows folder structure for storing my files - everything resides on another drive. But it looks like it has potential.

Thanks :)

[simplezz]

It's nice that we all have other options, like GNU/Linux, XP, or Windows 7, though my preference is GNU/Linux because I get the latest updates without worrying about whether the system is going to get locked down or rendered unusable like Windows 8.

If something about Linux irks me, I just change to another distro, desktop environment, or another app. It's so much better when there are lots of choices. There's something for everyone. I can't stand the one glove fits all approach that Microsoft takes, especially when it shoves the touch orientated startscreen down desktop users' throats.

[Jason_Coffey]

Windows 8 will go down as the biggest fail in the tech world.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

especially when it shoves the touch orientated startscreen down desktop users' throats.

People tend to complain both ways.

Had MS skipped the touch functionality, the same folks would scream about Apple's superiority and how it is light years away when it comes to touch.

And I expect to use my desktop with touch capabilities in the near future. So MS is just being pro-active here as they've already embedded this tech into their OS before the manufacturers could come up with such screens on large scale.

[FloatingFatMan]

Also lets spend practically all our time porting that UI over and offer almost no other new features - No Time Machine, iTunes or iCloud competitor, no one needs those anyways what they need is giant boxes and an extra toolbox in Explorer!"

When slagging something off, it usually helps to actually know what you're talking about. You clearly don't, so I suggest you do some reading.

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

Do people really want touch on desktop screens though? Of course on a tablet / mobile device it's essential - but in terms of using my PC I find the keyboard and mouse a powerful and comfortable way of interacting. I don't feel the urge to reach across the desk and start wiping my fingers across the screen.. it'll make it messy and it'll be uncomfortable.

[ndoggfromhell]

I remember this argument the first time around... When Microsoft did away with program groups and forced everyone to use this stupid icon in the lower left corner that said Start. I've been using the release preview and I have no issues at all with Metro. I didn't use the start button much anymore and I'm glad it's gone to be honest. Business will adopt it, programmers will write applications for it, and the world will move on. With or without those who dislike it. Change is inevitable, and people tend to resist it.

[threetonesun]

Do people really want touch on desktop screens though? Of course on a tablet / mobile device it's essential - but in terms of using my PC I find the keyboard and mouse a powerful and comfortable way of interacting. I don't feel the urge to reach across the desk and start wiping my fingers across the screen.. it'll make it messy and it'll be uncomfortable.

I'd like an OS that's portable and desktopable without being two separate OSes (e.g. iOS and OSX)... the touch part isn't important, but you have to go with the lowest common denominator UI if that's how you're going to use the OS.

[+Mirumir Subscriber¹]

Do people really want touch on desktop screens though? Of course on a tablet / mobile device it's essential - but in terms of using my PC I find the keyboard and mouse a powerful and comfortable way of interacting. I don't feel the urge to reach across the desk and start wiping my fingers across the screen.. it'll make it messy and it'll be uncomfortable.

Maybe not on your desktop screen per se, but when your whole table becomes your desktop...I wouldn't say no to a toy like this and I'm patiently waiting for the moment when the manufactures catch up! :D The software to run this thing is already here!

[PGHammer]

You've been using WIndows for 20 years and you dont know Alt+Tab or Win+Tab?

Note that the complaints are *entirely* aesthetics/comfort-driven. It's not about backward-compatibility, or even usability. It's that it's not Windows 7 Service Pack 2.

They would rather have seen WindowsRT try (and fail) to justify itself all alone against Android and iOS (and the failure would be for obvious reasons), but they really don't care. They would rather see Microsoft (and Windows) lost marketshare to Android as opposed to actually rising to meet the challenge of Android.

Aren't these also a LOT of the same folks that have complained that things are *meh* as far as operating systems, applications, games, and whatnot? So what happens when Microsoft actually gets a clue and changes things? "You changed - therefore I'll stand pat."

Sheesh.

[BoDEAN]

Sounds like a disgruntled windows user. I heard 2013 will be the year of the Linux. See you there!

I can play my games, like Diablo 3, Skyrim, and Battlefield 3 on Linux now? Yikes, sign me up!

[PGHammer]

something happened to me when i installed the RTM, the graphics drivers hadn't been installed so the resolution wasn't very high, and while i was downloading updated drivers I tried out the music app and it said it didn't support low resolutions and wouldn't start.... i suppose its not a big deal, i just found it odd they'd put a limit on it...

completely off topic I see that the next version of android will have multi-user and even android 4.1 has safe mode ha... if they made support for desktop architecture it would be fun to try out, been so customizable and all :)

agree with you completely, we who don't like are attacked for some reason by those who do. It's like they're afraid it will fail or somethin :p , i'll be skipping it too (first time i've ever skipped one) and this is coming from someone used Windows ME for a full year lol ...

... oh and its not that we can't use it, we can use it fine, its that we don't like it....

And yet Android has every feature you loathe about Windows 8 (but also lacks the backward-compatibility that has you hanging on to Windows 7 for dear life) so why Android as opposed to Windows 8, huh?