facebook Mark Zuckerberg: Our Biggest Mistake Was Betting on HTML5

[Boz]

Today, Mark Zuckerberg revealed that Facebook?s mobile strategy relied too much on HTML5, rather than native applications.

Not only was this a big mistake with mobile, but Zuckerberg says that its biggest mistake period was the focus on HTML5. This is the first time that the Facebook CEO has openly admitted this, but things are looking good for the new iOS native app. According to Zuckerberg, people are consuming twice as many feed stories since the update to the new iOS app, which is great.

http://techcrunch.co...-much-on-html5/

Just another proof that HTML5 is TERRIBLE.

[sanctified Veteran]

No, this is just proof that HTLM5 is a terrible sustitute for native apps. It's the only thing that this proves.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

HTML 5 is being charged with delivering far too much. There is a strong attempt to reach the Software as a Service future and HTML 5 is being pushed hard as the road to get us there. There will always be a need for native apps and web apps... By allowing the two to co-exist and do what its best for them both we end up better off. No need to squish it all into one pot.

[Vice]

Well since HTML5 web-apps added to the home screen of iPhones and Android devices cannot send notifications to peoples devices or have badges placed on their icons on the home screen errr duh?

You can't have a social platform without proper notifications. It would be like having skype that never told you when you had an incoming phone call.

[.Neo]

Just another proof that HTML5 is TERRIBLE.

Boz, you should start working for the Ministry of Public "Enlightenment" and Propaganda of a dictatorial regime somewhere. You'll definitely be a great asset.

[Growled Member]

Everyone knows that HTML5 is not a finished standard yet. Yeah, I'd say they made a huge mistake relying on it.

[.Neo]

Everyone knows that HTML5 is not a finished standard yet. Yeah, I'd say they made a huge mistake relying on it.

It's fine to rely on HTML5, just not to the degree where you completely replace native apps by the technology. Facebook thought they had found an easy way to build cross-platform apps. They were simply being cheap and lazy, something their mobile products clearly demonstrated.

[Boz]

It's fine to rely on HTML5, just not to the degree where you completely replace native apps by the technology.

It's not fine to rely on HTML5 because:

A) It barely works on maybe 50% of the browsers

B) It doesn't even work properly on mobile through a browser (fragmentation is even worse with feature sets) and on mobile it's even worse.

C) It's slow and any interactivity is a DOG on CPU and on mobile again tons of features don't even work right. Differences between iOS and Android implementation to start.

D) It doesn't have access to native APIs but only those who are supported by the browser and even then the supported APIs differ from one browser/platform to another.

E) It's not even finalized and now W3C and WHATWG have split the spec in two versions making even more problems with compatibility

F) It's just SLOW as hell. It can't even compare to anything native and even Flash. It's just slightly modernized HTML platform (not finished with specs I might add because they can't agree on many things) that is still relying on 15 year old scripting language that hasn't evolved at all and the foundation of the issues with HTML haven't been solved. They just tried to build upon an already broken model that is dependent on browser support for features.

G) Google, Mozilla and Microsoft are all trying to create their own HTML5+ specs that they think benefits their platforms. It's basically a clusterf***

The only thing HTML5, and actually HTML by default has, which is nothing new, is usability over the content shown as it is easily searchable due to it's semantic nature but even that is not really HTML5 thing.. This was a fact even before HTML5.

[tiagosilva29]

Facebook thought they had found an easy way to build cross-platform apps.

They should have use Java.

[.Neo]

It's not fine to rely on HTML5 because:

It's fine for simple things. Per example I never experienced any problems with HTML5 videos in Safari. As I said before just not for advanced applications like basing entire apps around it. That's just plain stupid and obviously you're going to run into the problems Facebook was facing.

[thomastmc]

Just another proof that HTML5 is TERRIBLE.

It's fine for simple things. Per example I never experienced any problems with HTML5 videos in Safari. As I said before just not for advanced applications like basing entire apps around it. That's just plain stupid and obviously you're going to run into the problems Facebook was facing.

Adobe is focusing heavily on HTML5 for mobile platforms, even ditching their own Flash product for it.

http://blogs.adobe.c...lash-focus.html

Windows Modern UI, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8 native apps are developed with HTML5. Microsoft even went as far as to bake JavaScript into their new runtime, WinRT, so that HTML5 applications would perform as well as C++ and C# applications.

The problem was that they didn't have a native app, period. It was a grand miscalculation to assume that people didn't want notifications from their social network, or direct access to the camera or sensors.

[spaceelf]

They should have use Java.

At which point I would never use Facebook again. I doubt I'm the only one.

[CentralDogma]

Does the Facebook mobile client even need HTML5? Seems like all they would need is plain old HTML and some Javascript.

[Boz]

Adobe is focusing heavily on HTML5 for mobile platforms, even ditching their own Flash product for it.

http://blogs.adobe.c...lash-focus.html

Considering I'm also an Adobe partner I can tell you with absolute confidence that Adobe is not ditching Flash at all.. quite the contrary.. the new versions of Flash are going to be pretty amazing. Especially when we get to Flash Next. Even now, Flash 11.4 has multithreading//concurrency in code and full support for StageVideo and Stage3D fully GPU accelerated APIs.

Adobe AIR is taking a very good spot in creating fully GPU accelerated native app experiences with, you guessed it, Flash/AS (actually AIR but it's pretty much the same thing). Even Adobe's own apps like Photoshop and other stuff for mobile are made with Flash/AS3/AIR basically..

Only in the eyes of those who are narrowminded it's a HTML5 vs Flash thing. It was never like that and it won't be.. Flash is built on top of HTML. It's an addition to HTML/JS/CSS, it's not a versus thing.

Adobe is trying to find their own place and push HTML5 to the level of Flash and that's normal. They have always done that. It's not like Adobe overnight decided to just support HTML5. Dreamweaver, Fireworks and many other things produced before supported were helping people build HTML/JS/CSS experiences. They have just invested more trying to make some tools that par Flash ones for those who want to create animations and similar stuff with HTML. It's natural for a creative company like them.

Flash is actually getting used more and more again because people have built stuff in HTML5 and when they need to maintain it, build to support various browsers it costs clients 3 times more money to do it in HTML5. So they are going back to Flash for many things. I know this because I have spent a lot of time building stuff in Flash a while back and I have a lot of people in my profession getting more and more Flash work again. So I can see the reactions. Not only that, but Adobe has been forced by companies to re-publish Flash for Android in UK because companies are starting to complain now.

Both HTML and Flash have their place and that won't change. Actually if you add games to the equation you will see that a lot of people are making some pretty amazing games now in Flash too because HTML5 is just not up to par in providing a fluid and smooth experience like Flash does not to mention getting into the whole audio/video support fiasco.

[thomastmc]

Considering I'm also an Adobe partner I can tell you with absolute confidence that Adobe is not ditching Flash at all.. quite the contrary.. the new versions of Flash are going to be pretty amazing. Especially when we get to Flash Next.

Both HTML and Flash have their place and that won't change. Actually if you add games to the equation you will see that a lot of people are making some pretty amazing games now in Flash too because HTML5 is just not up to par in providing a fluid and smooth experience like Flash does.

Adobe seems to disagree with you on it's public statements to businesses and developers relating to the future of Flash.

... This makes HTML5 the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms. We are excited about this' date=' and will continue our work with key players in the HTML community, including Google, Apple, Microsoft and RIM, to drive HTML5 innovation they can use to advance their mobile browsers.[/quote']

We will no longer continue to develop Flash Player in the browser to work with new mobile device configurations (chipset' date=' browser, OS version, etc.) following the upcoming release of Flash Player 11.1 for Android and BlackBerry PlayBook.[/quote']

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/11/flash-focus.html

Increasingly' date=' rich motion graphics will be deployed directly via the browser using HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript and other modern web technologies. While the primary role of Flash Player as an engine for innovation on the web remains the same, what it is used for will change.

Adobe believes that the Flash runtimes are particularly and uniquely suited for two primary use cases: creating and deploying rich, expressive games with console-quality graphics and deploying premium video.

This shift in focus for Flash does not mean that existing content will no longer run, or that Flash cannot be used for content other than gaming and premium video. However, it does mean that when prioritizing future development and bug fixes, gaming and premium video use cases will take priority.[/quote']

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html

If HTML5 is so terrible, why have Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe embraced it so fervently?

[Boz]

Adobe seems to disagree with you on it's public statements to businesses and developers relating to the future of Flash.

If HTML5 is so terrible, why have Google, Apple, Microsoft, and Adobe embraced it so fervently?

Because it's HTML.. it's not some new thing. Companies supported HTML before.. this is not something new.

and btw, Adobe is looking at HTML5 hype and trying to make money off it. They have been contributing to W3C for a long time. Again nothing new.

And Flash Player for mobile was abandoned because they just felt the future is not in a mobile browser but in native apps thus pushing AIR and Flash on desktops. It's not brain science.

I personally think it was their mistake because as I said, they are getting a LOT of backlash for abandoning it but I fully understand their decision from logic standpoint. As this article proves, mobile web is dead or dying. Everything is going native app route. Even Google makes apps now natively for mobile and have pretty much abandoned HTML5 on it for their apps.

[ahhell]

Maybe if Facebook hired competent coders this wouldn't be a problem.

[thomastmc]

Because it's HTML.. it's not some new thing. Companies supported HTML before.. this is not something new.

It is new to state that it's better than Adobe's own technology for delivering content in the browser.

... HTML5 the best solution for creating and deploying content in the browser across mobile platforms.

And Flash Player for mobile was abandoned because they just felt the future is not in a mobile browser but in native apps thus pushing AIR and Flash on desktops. It's not brain science.

So they decided that ignoring everything in the browser on mobile devices was a good idea... brain science (I think you meant "surgery").

Any web developer who uses HTML5 and JavaScript can build apps for Windows 8, Windows RT, and Windows Phone 8. So, AIR will be a good way to build native apps for iPhones and Androids, OK.

Flash on the desktop will have TWO usage scenarios explicitly supported by Adobe in the future, high-end gaming and premium (Netflix, HBO) video.

Adobe believes that the Flash runtimes are particularly and uniquely suited for two primary use cases: creating and deploying rich, expressive games with console-quality graphics and deploying premium video.

This shift in focus for Flash does not mean that existing content will no longer run, or that Flash cannot be used for content other than gaming and premium video. However, it does mean that when prioritizing future development and bug fixes, gaming and premium video use cases will take priority.

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashplatform/whitepapers/roadmap.html

Adobe is saying here that not only will their future Flash development be focused in these areas, but so also should any businesses' or developers' future development In Flash. Developers can still use Flash for other scenarios, but at their own risk. "... when prioritizing future development and bug fixes, gaming and premium video use cases will take priority."

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Mark Zuckerberg revealed that Facebook?s mobile strategy relied too much on HTML5, rather than native applications

Just another proof that HTML5 is TERRIBLE.

compared to native full fledged applications, yea. and is what Zuckerberg was saying

its shurely not Flash like you keep preaching on about

[Boz]

Developers can still use Flash for other scenarios, but at their own risk. "

LOL.. Flash is Flash and Actionscript 3 is Actionscript 3.. and basically those 2 things (gaming and premium video) are actually the things that improve performance for everything else.

Instead of quoting stuff, I'm telling you what Adobe is saying to all of us partners on private forums. They are pretty much focused on pushing Flash Player forward in a big way.

Having amazing 3D and video capabilities will allow anyone to build some pretty fantastic apps for the web too. It goes hand in hand.

And having premium video and awesome gaming performance and capabilities will almost certainly keep Flash around for A LONG time for a premium rich interactive media content. This means awesome 3D stuff, video, cool interfaces and so much more.

[Boz]

its shurely not Flash like you keep preaching on about

Yep it is.. AIR is also much faster as it is compiled into native code. So pretty much it is.

[watchthisspace]

E) It's not even finalized and now W3C and WHATWG have split the spec in two versions making even more problems with compatibility

Perhaps you should quit your slandering of something that isn't finished.

[thomastmc]

Instead of quoting stuff, I'm telling you what Adobe is saying to all of us partners on private forums. They are pretty much focused on pushing Flash Player forward in a big way.

I'm just telling you what Adobe is saying to businesses and developers publicly, and on the record. This is information that Adobe expects them to use to make the best determination of how to invest in Adobe's technology, and to give them an understanding of how Adobe would like them to invest in their technology.

This shift in focus for Flash does not mean that existing content will no longer run, or that Flash cannot be used for content other than gaming and premium video. However, it does mean that when prioritizing future development and bug fixes, gaming and premium video use cases will take priority.

http://www.adobe.com...rs/roadmap.html

Having amazing 3D and video capabilities will allow anyone to build some pretty fantastic apps for the web too. It goes hand in hand.

The web, as in, on the desktop. If you believe the future of the web is on the desktop, that may seem like a good gamble. I would rather not take that gamble.

[Boz]

Perhaps you should quit your slandering of something that isn't finished.

Of course you can.. this whole hype has been going on since original iPhone came out in 2007. And it hasn't improved at all. Same problems, same issues. By the looks of it, it will be finished by 2021 if ever and by that time the question is whether or not internet and the tech landscape will even look as it does today.

The web, as in, on the desktop. If you believe the future of the web is on the desktop, that may seem like a good gamble. I would rather not take that gamble.

Well what are you going to gamble on.. mobile? HTML5 is already dead on that. People are going native not HTML5.

Btw, I agree with you, desktop will not last forever as well. But I wouldn't bet on building HTML5 stuff for mobile. That's a dead end if it ever was one.

[thomastmc]

Of course you can.. this whole hype has been going on since original iPhone came out in 2007. And it hasn't improved at all. Same problems, same issues. By the looks of it, it will be finished by 2021 if ever and by that time the question is whether or not internet and the tech landscape will even look as it does today.

And you know how people hate their iPhones and iPads... If only they had been successful Apple might not be in the horrible financial position it's in.