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Serious Sam 3 Developer Has Serious Issues with Windows 8


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#1 Asrokhel

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:09

Croteam CTO Alen Ladavac is the latest game developer to lash out against Windows 8, and he did so by posting a rather lengthy message on Steam's forum. Ladavac was commenting in a thread dedicated to a new Serious Sam 3 patch, and he sort of went off on a tangent, complaining about the tiled interface in Windows 8, the certification process, and age restrictions that have prevented titles like Dishonored and Skyrim from appearing in the Windows Store.

The latter complaint was reversed, according to our sister site PC Gamer, but Ladavac's biggest gripe is that tiled UI applications can only be released through the Windows Store and not by any other means.'

"I cannot even begin to stress out just how horrible this idea is! There is no side-loading, except for corporate use inside one company, and that works only on the enterprise edition of Windows 8," Ladavac rages. "Do we all understand what that means? You cannot download an application from the Internet and run it on your computer. You have to get it from Microsoft's store. Even if it is a free app!"

To be clear, Windows 8 doesn't prevent users from installing programs of their desire, they just won't appear in the main interface.

"If it was just about 'being downloaded from Windows store', it would not be a problem," Ladavac added. "It would be nice to have a common hub to download things from. But to get an app onto that store, it has to be certified by MS. This means bringing the 'console experience' onto your desktop. Each app that you will get through the Windows Store will have to adhere to certain requirements imposed by MS."

Ladavac is one of a handful of game developers to voice displeasure with Windows 8 and the apparent walled garden approach Microsoft appears to be adopting. It's one of the reasons why Valve is looking long and hard at Linux, after Gabe Newell now famously referred to Windows 8 as a "catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."

"Gabe Newell did not overreact," Ladavac said.











http://www.maximumpc...s_windows_8_987


#2 Nick H.

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:15

"I cannot even begin to stress out just how horrible this idea is! There is no side-loading, except for corporate use inside one company, and that works only on the enterprise edition of Windows 8," Ladavac rages. "Do we all understand what that means? You cannot download an application from the Internet and run it on your computer. You have to get it from Microsoft's store. Even if it is a free app!"

To be clear, Windows 8 doesn't prevent users from installing programs of their desire, they just won't appear in the main interface.

Why? I imagine there was some reasoning behind such a move, but for the moment I can't think of a decent reason for it.

#3 Xoligy

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:21

Not used or even watched many Windows 8 videos but im guessing the talk is about the tiled interface you can have and how MS want you to download everything through there store, ofc im guessing MS will say that they want some of the action for allowing sales though there store and the application to be allowed on the tiled screen (could be wrong). But what the dev seems to forget is, there will be some programmer right now looking at how to code in a hack or patch that will allow anything there, just like there is a hack or patch for almost everything else anyway back to working on this tile interface hack... if a = 1 then b must be 2 lol

#4 lecter

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:40

I don't see his problem...he's complaining about Live Tiles, but if he doesn't want to use the MS Store he can simply have the app make a shortcut on the Start Screen, like all the other legacy apps currently make. So it won't be live, it will look as out of place as a 16-bit app shortcut in Windows 95, cry me a river.

#5 DKAngel

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:43

the thing is when u install it a tile is put on the start screen. wtf is he smoking

#6 Javik

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:48

How could these obviously butthurt developers dislike the most awesome thing to happen to computing since the invention of the keyboard and mouse!

/s

#7 lim3918

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:59

Another stupid developer that is ignorant, my reasons below :

"I cannot even begin to stress out just how horrible this idea is! There is no side-loading, except for corporate use inside one company, and that works only on the enterprise edition of Windows 8," Ladavac rages. "Do we all understand what that means? You cannot download an application from the Internet and run it on your computer. You have to get it from Microsoft's store. Even if it is a free app!"

"If it was just about 'being downloaded from Windows store', it would not be a problem," Ladavac added. "It would be nice to have a common hub to download things from. But to get an app onto that store, it has to be certified by MS. This means bringing the 'console experience' onto your desktop. Each app that you will get through the Windows Store will have to adhere to certain requirements imposed by MS."


Lets take for example iOS. iOS doesn't allow sideloading, unless you jailbreak it. But does anyone actually complain? NO, maybe not that much. Microsoft establish a store just like apple, but of different sense.

The idea of Microsoft Store is only to hold metro apps. Selected few normal desktop applications may also be shown there but it only offers a link for you go go to the website and download it, this is only for desktop apps. You want to be shown in Microsoft store, get certify by Microsoft's rule. What is all the rant about???

Unless you hate iOS way of hosting apps, that you have to be certify by apple before showing in appstore, which apparently this same development company "Croteam" have a game "Serious Sam: Kamikaze Attack!" in iOS appstore. Does he hate iOS? No. How come they are able to tolerate the certification rules of apple to release a game there but extremely unhappy to abide to Microsoft store certification rules???

Normal desktop apps and games can still be downloaded from internet or purchased from retail to install and still continue to run on Windows 8, unless what he trying to say is Windows RT's limitation. What is he trying to argue? Like apple but dislike microsoft even though they both got their own stores, with exception that iOS restrict all apps to only available from appstore?

#8 Javik

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:00

iOS isn't being marketed to desktop class devices, Windows 8 is.

#9 Arceles

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:24

My money goes to steam. No windows RT app will touch my dear laptop.

#10 Peter van Dam

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:24

Last time I checked, you can install tiled applications from outside of the Windows Store. If Google Chrome can do it, anyone can. The only issue he can have is losing customers because they already bought a lot of other good games.

#11 George P

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:27

Another none issue, game devs don't have to use the Windows Store, if we're talking Windows 8 x86/x64 you can install it like you always have on the desktop, no harm no foul. Any app that's installed gets a tile on the start screen, so desktop apps don't have live tiles, big deal, why would I want a live tile for a game exactly? What kinda useful info would it even show? The only apps that need live tiles are those tied to a service or meant to give you updated info often.

And there is no age limit, MS thought about it but changed their mind iirc, you can have M rated games in the Windows Store now. That is also not an issue. Certification? Oh boo hoo, heaven forbid you have to run a simple check to make sure your game doesn't crap all over my system. In fact, doesn't every "store" have a cert process? Windows itself has certification processes for lots of things and has for years, mainly drivers and I think we can all agree that it's a good thing they do.

I've got Win8 installed on my desktop, it works good, my apps work, my games work and I don't jump to the start screen unless I want to. This whole issue with the store is a joke. I also find it pretty funny that people hate Windows having a store yet have no issue tossing out cash to Steam, which is yet another store.

#12 Ryoken

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 12:55

Another stupid developer that is ignorant, my reasons below :



Lets take for example iOS. iOS doesn't allow sideloading, unless you jailbreak it. But does anyone actually complain? NO, maybe not that much. Microsoft establish a store just like apple, but of different sense.

The idea of Microsoft Store is only to hold metro apps. Selected few normal desktop applications may also be shown there but it only offers a link for you go go to the website and download it, this is only for desktop apps. You want to be shown in Microsoft store, get certify by Microsoft's rule. What is all the rant about???

Unless you hate iOS way of hosting apps, that you have to be certify by apple before showing in appstore, which apparently this same development company "Croteam" have a game "Serious Sam: Kamikaze Attack!" in iOS appstore. Does he hate iOS? No. How come they are able to tolerate the certification rules of apple to release a game there but extremely unhappy to abide to Microsoft store certification rules???

Normal desktop apps and games can still be downloaded from internet or purchased from retail to install and still continue to run on Windows 8, unless what he trying to say is Windows RT's limitation. What is he trying to argue? Like apple but dislike microsoft even though they both got their own stores, with exception that iOS restrict all apps to only available from appstore?

I hate when people compare iOS to Windows.

iOS was NEVER an open System. It's not sold as such, it's not expected to be one as it never was.

Windows has been an Open system since it first launched, allowing anyone who wanted too to write apps for it, and have it work and install and run the same as if it was done by MS themselves.

Now you don't have that.. sure you can install desktop apps, but Metro, it's go through MS or gtfo.

A good example is the App Store for MacOS ( not iOS ).. they launched it, it was a hit, for a few weeks, but now it's falling apart because the devs don't want to play by those rules. They don't want to have to live in Apple's ideal sandbox.

#13 -Razorfold

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:22

Windows has been an Open system since it first launched, allowing anyone who wanted too to write apps for it, and have it work and install and run the same as if it was done by MS themselves.

Now you don't have that.. sure you can install desktop apps, but Metro, it's go through MS or gtfo.

Then don't code metro apps? Microsoft isn't standing behind you with a gun and saying you better code metro apps for Windows 8 or else.

You can still use win32 just like you could with Windows 7, and face it almost all PC games are going to remain win32.

Now if MS completely ditched Win32 and only allowed Metro apps to run on Windows 8 (not talking about RT here), then yes that's a completely different matter. But they haven't done that, and most probably won't for the foreseeable future.

---

What's funny is all these developers that you hear speaking out against the MS store (Valve, Blizzard etc) are ones that won't ever make a metro app (regardless of the store restrictions) since it doesn't really apply to them and doesn't give them the flexibility / performance that they need.

#14 Slarlac249

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:23

inb4 ms fanboys,


damn, too late.


I thought windows 8 sounded good, but the more I read about it, the worse it sounds.

#15 HawkMan

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:38

inb4 ms fanboys,


damn, too late.


I thought windows 8 sounded good, but the more I read about it, the worse it sounds.


Why? And maybe you should actually try it instead of reading biased reviews?