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Checked another demo unit out, this one had the Type Cover. No complaints with it - well spaced, I don't mind the lack of travel as I've been using laptops for so long. Not quite as fond of the trackpad on it though, it could have used the texturing on the Touch Cover. The Touch Cover isn't even flexible though, so I see no practical reason to get it over the Type Cover.

The problem is that they couldn't make it any more flexible than it is already otherwise it wouldn't make a very good keyboard to type on.

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I have a Surface and agree somewhat. And I also think WinRT is to blame for a lot of this. There is simply no excuse for Metro apps taking so long to launch, for the Store to show me a blank white screen for seconds, for IE Metro to reload a page every time I hit back. None of this happens on iOS or Android, not until the app is cached out of memory, which is only if I have a ton of pages/apps loaded. I suspect WinRT consumes a lot more memory since it is a full desktop OS after all, and thus everything else suffers.

I had high hopes for the Surface since it was supposed to showcase the touch UI in Windows 8, but in reality it's not that great to use - things like the charms bar, the new task switcher etc are no better as far as usability goes. Surface Pro has a legitimate use case, for people who need full x86 on a portable device. Surface, I'm not so sure, unless you really truly must have Office.

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I have a Surface and agree somewhat. And I also think WinRT is to blame for a lot of this. There is simply no excuse for Metro apps taking so long to launch, for the Store to show me a blank white screen for seconds, for IE Metro to reload a page every time I hit back. None of this happens on iOS or Android, not until the app is cached out of memory, which is only if I have a ton of pages/apps loaded. I suspect WinRT consumes a lot more memory since it is a full desktop OS after all, and thus everything else suffers.

oh that is BS. I have an iPad and an Android phone, and neither is instant on these things.

and iOS most definitely reload on back, and yep, so does chrome on android.

Also WinRT is no more a full desktop OS than iOS is. technically both of them are stripped down full desktop OS'

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oh that is BS. I have an iPad and an Android phone, and neither is instant on these things.

and iOS most definitely reload on back, and yep, so does chrome on android.

Also WinRT is no more a full desktop OS than iOS is. technically both of them are stripped down full desktop OS'

Really, iOS is a stripped down OSX? Perhaps you'll show me how I can access the desktop on my iPad, or how I can run an OSX program compiled for ARM? WinRT is Windows compiled for ARM, iOS and Android were both written for mobile devices. Maybe you should look at the size the OS takes on the device.

And neither iOS or Android will reload a webpage when you go back. Neither does WP8.

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Thats the kicker, WP7 runs circles around RT in certain key areas.

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Really, iOS is a stripped down OSX? Perhaps you'll show me how I can access the desktop on my iPad, or how I can run an OSX program compiled for ARM? WinRT is Windows compiled for ARM, iOS and Android were both written for mobile devices. Maybe you should look at the size the OS takes on the device.

And neither iOS or Android will reload a webpage when you go back. Neither does WP8.

He is correct Surface uses Windows NT Kernel and some other userland, as does iOS. Just because the UI is not the same doesn't mean that the core of these are based on their full desktop OS counterparts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS

It's a testament to both systems, showing how portable their code bases are that they can both still switch between different CPU architecture

(Windows NT has always been portable (Alpha & Itanium, DEC as well as some other RISC's) as has the core underpinnings of MacOSX Unix which is all about portability.

As for the lag, im not sure i haven't used a Surface yet so cant comment. I think for the majority it depends on what your doing at the time, sometimes my Android (GN 10.1) and my iPad have lagged when changing orientation, most of the time it's pretty instant. The surface problem sounds like it can be fixed through further updates anyway as the hardware doesn't seem to be that underpowered.

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Really, iOS is a stripped down OSX? Perhaps you'll show me how I can access the desktop on my iPad, or how I can run an OSX program compiled for ARM? WinRT is Windows compiled for ARM, iOS and Android were both written for mobile devices. Maybe you should look at the size the OS takes on the device.

And neither iOS or Android will reload a webpage when you go back. Neither does WP8.

Maybe you should read up on what iOS actually is, then come back here. because it is in fact a stripped down OSX. and what does the desktop have to do with that ? the Shell is a VERY small part of the OS. you do realize that win 8 runs two shells in parallel, the Modern interface shell and the desktop, side by side under explorer. on RT. RT is technically the only shell, But it's able to run a limited version of an emulated desktop. basically the desktop is just an app. running under explorer.

But both OS' are stripped down minimal versions of their desktop counterparts. If you think the existences of a virtual/emulated desktop is what makes or not makes it a desktop based OS. then you have a few more things to learn about these things.

As for the back thing. Well funny how BOTH my iPad and my Android phone reloaded when I clicked back then... oh because they both do it. Want to see how it looks when a browser DOESN'T reload on back ? install Opera.

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