13 replies to this topic

[SHoTTa35]

OK so did a migration few weeks ago and it's been working just fine and dandy:

http://www.neowin.ne...storage-sizing/

So as you can see from there I have 1 physical server with 2 Virtual servers as well.

We were using a client software (ShadowProtect) to backup SBS 2003R2 but now planning to use Windows Server Backup as it does all that's needed for local backups (and no longer having to pay for the service means cheaper). I am testing Windows Azure to just backup the stuff off-site (since it integrates with Windows Server Backup) and seems cheaper too than the service we were using before (likr $50/500GB vs $135).

Anyways, seems like the built in backup can't really do incrementals of Hyper-Vs from the main server so i'm thinking of setting up server backup on the individual machines then point them to the 1TB USB HDD hooked up to the server.

Not sure that would work either so anyone got any ideas?

[+Xenosion]

ShadowProtect is fantastic but costly if you are to backup each virtual server which is what I'm guessing you want to avoid.

A couple options:
1. If you have the virtual machines able to access the host, you could share out the USB drive and point the Windows Server Backup to it. That would work just fine for basic file backups.
2. Myself, I have iSCSI targets on a host HyperV server for each virtual machine to backup to. This is mainly because SBS 2011 Backup doesn't support backing up to a network share.
3. Set your USB drive to offline in Disk Management and mount the raw disk to the virtual machine in HyperV. You now have a raw disk available to your VM. You would have to have one USB drive per VM.

[Draken]

I'm using Cobian Backup 11, it uses shadow-copy and supports incremental bkps while the VMs are in use. On the paid side Veeam is a good alternative too.

[SHoTTa35]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check out a few things that i've been pondering also. If any are viable i'll post them here as solutions for others

The main reason i wanna do this though is to avoid uploading 120GB or all the time to the offsite backup (8Mbps upload). If the host does backup it works except it does a FULL backup for both VMs every single time it backs up.

I saw someone mention creating a VHD file on a share then mounting it in the VM which would then allow you to incrementally update it since the VM thinks it's a "local" hdd even if it's on a remote storage somewhere (Could work for you Xenosion) Just want to do offsite backup but without the crazy big files to upload!

On the file server, i get about 300-500MB/s of changes in a day (mostly new pictures taken or documents/PDFs downloaded) so that's easy to upload but not so much for 100GB+!

[+sc302]

how much is your data worth?
$1000
$2000
$10,000
$100,000

how much is it worth to be able to instantly recover or a complete recover in 15 to 30 min?

[+Fus10n]

sc302, on 17 November 2012 - 00:43, said:

how much is your data worth?
$1000
$2000
$10,000
$100,000

how much is it worth to be able to instantly recover or a complete recover in 15 to 30 min?

I'm interested in this technology.. It takes hours to recover some files with our SAN

[SHoTTa35]

Worth tons so just making sure it's backed up properly.

[+sc302]

but yet you put a price tag on your backup.

Well this solution is a complete DR solution in one box. It will backup, it will image, it will bare metal restore to dissimilar hardware or to hyper-v or to vmware, and it can bring up that image on itself for a near instant recovery. While this isn't inexpensive, the cost is similar to purchasing backup exec and purchasing the hardware to support backup exec. The difference is that with backup exec every server/computer that it touches and every db that it touches has to get licensed, with this appliance no matter how many computers or servers you are backing up it is all covered under one price. To backup 10 servers/computers it was 5000 from backup exec, plus 2000 in maintanence and that was just for the software without deduplication or baremetal restore....for 10,000 I was able to get maintainence, hardware and all the features that I would have had to pay a crap load more for backupexec.

I am currently trying to find a way to duplicate this on my own hardware with my own software package but I keep coming up with dead ends. There aren't may companies who offer a complete DR solution like this, and the ones that do don't offer it at the price point that they do or have all of the features that they do.

http://www.unitrends.com

Watch the video, it is an impressive product. But it all depends on what you think your data is worth, and what peace of mind is worth.
http://www.unitrends...t-recovery.html


more info
http://www.unitrends...and-vmware.html

http://www.unitrends...t-recovery.html

[SHoTTa35]

Instant recovery sounds similar to Hyper-V Replication which basically keeps another server with replicated data between the 2 so if one machine dies you can (manually) put the other online replacing the main one right away. Guess I have the other 2 servers sitting around so just would have to buy some RAM and HDD for those and install Hyper-V Server 2012 on it (which is free by the way ).

Guess i'll see how this thing goes with what I'm testing now before deciding how to go.

[+sc302]

keeps it replicated between the two, keeps it replicated with live deletes and oopses as well as corruption. that is just one part, it is also a backup which will recover you opsies or user issues with deletes. you could do similar with shadow copies but they are easily corruptable. Oh and this device has the capability of encrypting sending it to another device at another location or to their cloud storage so if your site or sites were to experiance a catrostrophic failure, it would be off site in a few other states. It is a complete backup and disaster recovery appliance, it isn't just a live replica..that is just one feature.

Go through the features here, it is a bit more than replication.
http://www.unitrends.com/features.html

Just an example:

• Hyper-V HOS-level backup: Completely protect your Hyper-V virtual machines without creating a huge backup footprint. Unitrends performs incremental backups by leveraging Change Block Tracking (CBT).
  
• Complete Unitrends protection: Unitrends’ full feature set applies to your virtual systems. Your data is protected by Unitrends Incremental Forever, which offers 15-minute incremental backups and point-in-time restores; applications and OSs are protected with Bare Metal restore.

[jonduc]

here's a short answer to a quick way to achieve what you want. after browsing for days and experimenting with scripts I gave up because i needed those incrementals, too. the program is called backup chain and I spoke to support before told them what I needed and they helped me understand the concepts better. found the tool got everything done without breaking the bank.

[REM2000]

Look at Acronis, i use their products to backup Windows servers of various types (File/SQL/Exchange/SharePoint), this includes physical and VM's under Hyper-V 2008R2. Very reliable, and very easy to restore, either the whole machine as a VM/baremetal as well as restoring only the files needed instead of the whole machine.

[majortom1981]

SHoTTa35, on 13 November 2012 - 15:33, said:

OK so did a migration few weeks ago and it's been working just fine and dandy:

http://www.neowin.ne...storage-sizing/

So as you can see from there I have 1 physical server with 2 Virtual servers as well.

We were using a client software (ShadowProtect) to backup SBS 2003R2 but now planning to use Windows Server Backup as it does all that's needed for local backups (and no longer having to pay for the service means cheaper). I am testing Windows Azure to just backup the stuff off-site (since it integrates with Windows Server Backup) and seems cheaper too than the service we were using before (likr $50/500GB vs $135).

Anyways, seems like the built in backup can't really do incrementals of Hyper-Vs from the main server so i'm thinking of setting up server backup on the individual machines then point them to the 1TB USB HDD hooked up to the server.

Not sure that would work either so anyone got any ideas?

Where are you finding that price for azure? Everything I see states a $500 minimum

[stevesnyder]

SHoTTa35, on 13 November 2012 - 15:33, said:

OK so did a migration few weeks ago and it's been working just fine and dandy:

http://www.neowin.ne...storage-sizing/

So as you can see from there I have 1 physical server with 2 Virtual servers as well.

We were using a client software (ShadowProtect) to backup SBS 2003R2 but now planning to use Windows Server Backup as it does all that's needed for local backups (and no longer having to pay for the service means cheaper). I am testing Windows Azure to just backup the stuff off-site (since it integrates with Windows Server Backup) and seems cheaper too than the service we were using before (likr $50/500GB vs $135).

Anyways, seems like the built in backup can't really do incrementals of Hyper-Vs from the main server so i'm thinking of setting up server backup on the individual machines then point them to the 1TB USB HDD hooked up to the server.

Not sure that would work either so anyone got any ideas?

Hello SHoTTa35,

Are you looking at our StorageCraft ShadowProtect Server licenses or at the Virtual Machine bundles? The reason I ask is that the VM licenses are about 1/3 the price of the physical server license--which could be a compelling cost savings while still keeping the performance and reliability of the ShadowProtect backup solution.

If you're looking to virtualize, we are compatible with Microsoft Hyper-V, VMWare, Citrix XenServer, Oracle's VirtualBox and RedHat KVM/RHEV systems. In addition, our Hardware Independent Restore technology makes moving between dissimilar hardware and/or physical and virtual environments a breeze. Lastly, a simple right-click will virtualize a recovery point in your backup chain or mount the recovery point as a shareable volume. How much easier can it get to enjoy the benefits of virtualization with your physical backup process?

+Xenosion, on 13 November 2012 - 15:33, said:

ShadowProtect is fantastic but costly if you are to backup each virtual server which is what I'm guessing you want to avoid.

Hello +Xenosion,

Thanks, we think ShadowProtect is fantastic too! We've tried to set our pricing so that we are competitive. Our pricing is currently in the middle of our market competitors, but with our free management tools like StorageCraft ImageManager, StorageCraft CMD, and StorageCraft ImageReady we believe our value exceeds that of similarily priced competitors. Add to this the new StorageCraft Cloud Services and we really offer a great business continuity solution based on rock solid backup technology.

Best wishes to you both!