Forbes: Microsoft Is Fast Turning Into A Sideshow

[MorganX]

>>Luckily Windows 8 doesn't require much in the retraining department, the IT guys should be able to pick it up right away, with a bit of an adjustment to their workflow. the regular users who aren't so set in the old ways are in my experience those who take the shift to the metro ways the easiest and most will be able to pick it right up after the intro tutorial "video".<<

It isn't really IT Guys who have a problem. While most don't like the Modern UI, Server 2012 has generated a lot of excitement. IT Admins could care less and won't use it if they don't like it as long as they get the job done. Most are remote anyway. The training costs are the people IT guys provide a computing environment for. Their job is not to know a whole lot about PCs it is to do something with computers. And having to retrain/relearn takes away from their primary concerns. They have specific apps, data, and workflows. And whether or not it's difficult to retrain them, it will have to be done. There is a cost associated with that. Depending on the size and diversity of staff, many IT departments or the business units themselves will delay those costs as long as possible. It's really not a simple undertaking for large organizations depending on the business or organization.

Not sure we deal with too many senior users. They are in low quantity in my experience. Just never really been a factor.

>>of course nowadays kids come out of kindergarten with their own pads and able to code their own games in high-high level building block languages. Actually being able to run their make your game software for their 6-7 year or so old kid was the primary requirement for a customer when he bought a new laptop last year.<<

Not here. They come out of kindergarten playing Angry Birds on their iPads. Seriously, programming is just not that popular anymore. Really good programmers are in high demand.

[Dot Matrix]

Seriously, programming is just not that popular anymore. Really good programmers are in high demand.

Programming was popular?

[HawkMan]

Programming was popular?

heh, true.

I unfortunately after choosing programming as my primary for my bachelor then after that realized that, while I enjoy programming and I think in the logical way that makes programming come fairly easy and make sense to me, that I simply couldn't do it for a job. 7.5 hours a day, for 5+ days a week.

and there certainly was not an abundance of people in my "class" that chose programming, most went for tech or system dev as a distant second.

[MorganX]

Programming was popular?

It was more popular than it has been in the past 5-10 years. Math and Science in general is on the decline in America. We just want coast through school and make a lot of money and have lots of women doing as little work as possible. Or maybe that's just me. :)

[Noir Angel]

oh give me a break, Neowin is a google circle jerk club most of the time

Clearly you never read the front page. The only thing to ever get decent reviews are the occasional Android phone, and even then the reviewers say that the WP phones are awesomer in every way.

personally I found the whole "the start menu is jarring and break my workflow" argument a bit of a stretch and somewhat hyperbolic. if you're actually working on something all your apps are up and running anyway. that aside though, it's their right to not like metro on a personal level or like the style. on a purely effective level though, none of them have really given an effective argument for making Metro less efficient than the start menu. with one small exception, the three people in the world who actually use the "jump" lists in the start menu :p good idea, but technically it didn't work very well and wasn't used by anyone but a small handful and even then it was only useful in a very few situations, unfortunately we can't make a GUI that's perfect for all the small situations but have to make one that's effective in the bigger pictures and where it's used mostly, and if that means sacrificing some of the niche features, then that's what has to be done.

Have to say I admire your arrogance, but why do people have to justify themselves to you anyway? Usability is very personal to each person, the smallest things may annoy a person to the point of distraction. Whether you agree is irrelevant because it's not your computer it's theirs.

[Dot Matrix]

heh, true.

I unfortunately after choosing programming as my primary for my bachelor then after that realized that, while I enjoy programming and I think in the logical way that makes programming come fairly easy and make sense to me, that I simply couldn't do it for a job. 7.5 hours a day, for 5+ days a week.

and there certainly was not an abundance of people in my "class" that chose programming, most went for tech or system dev as a distant second.

I can barely stand to do it for homework, let alone for a living. I have a case of Advil at my desk just for this reason alone. Lol

It was more popular than it has been in the past 5-10 years. Math and Science in general is on the decline in America. We just want coast through school and make a lot of money and have lots of women doing as little work as possible. Or maybe that's just me. :)

Yup. You're right. Sad, but that's America today. Science is loosing big time in Washington.

[Luc2k]

I wonder how W8's uptake will progress once it goes to full price.

[brn]

While I agree that the latest offerings haven't exactly sold like hotcakes, they're far from being a sideshow. Microsoft is just way too late to the game (as always) so they're paying the price for it. Windows 8, however, is a whole other animal - you either like it or you don't.

[DavidM]

While I agree that the latest offerings haven't exactly sold like hotcakes, they're far from being a sideshow. Microsoft is just way too late to the game (as always) so they're paying the price for it. Windows 8, however, is a whole other animal - you either like it or you don't.

Exactly, I can deal with it on my laptop - surfing, music, casual games and not much more, I went back to Windows 7 on my desktop for a few reasons.

1) I can't find a good setting for the default font that is easy to read on my monitor. 9 is too small and 10 doesn't look right. Can I change that? NO!

2) The flipping animation, I hate that I have to watch it every time I go from desktop to "tablet mode" to desktop. Can I change that? NO!

3) I don't like the "tablet mode" backgrounds and the solid ones are just too boring. Can I change that? NO!.... well yes if I hack the reg or install a 3rd party app.

4) They made the desktop so ugly no one WANTS to see it. They say they removed transparency because or power drain, but left the task bar transparent? WTF?

Well, those are MY reasons, it was the removal of the start button or the inclusion of the start screen, I always thought that bother me. Then I counted for the last three days how many times I used the start button... ZERO... I honestly couldn't believe it. I never touched the thing, my task-bar holds everything I use daily - Firefox, Foobar, Thunderbird, uTorrent, Office shortcuts, and the desktop has all of my current games - The Mass Effect Trilogy, Solsuite, and Metro 2033 and Steam. I guess I'd love Windows 8, if I could correct those 4 nags.... the under the hood stuff I liked.

[Dot Matrix]

1) I can't find a good setting for the default font that is easy to read on my monitor. 9 is too small and 10 doesn't look right. Can I change that? NO!

Huh?

[DavidM]

Huh?

Huh, what? You cannot change the font in Windows 8 (well you can with reg hacks), and I can't find a setting that's readable for me. SegoeUI 9pt is too small and 10pt looks fuzzy. 11pt and up, and it's just way too big. In Windows 7 you went to "Personalize -> Windows Color -> Advanced appearance settings" and you could change the font. That option has been removed.

Or may be you know a way to change it without resorting to reg hacks that may screw the padding and looks?

[Dot Matrix]

Huh, what? You cannot change the font in Windows 8 (well you can with reg hacks), and I can't find a setting that's readable for me. SegoeUI 9pt is too small and 10pt looks fuzzy. 11pt and up, and it's just way too big. In Windows 7 you went to "Personalize -> Windows Color -> Advanced appearance settings" and you could change the font. That option has been removed.

Or may be you know a way to change it without resorting to reg hacks that may screw the padding and looks?

No, but honestly, very few people ever change their system fonts. I haven't changed mine since XP, as every time you would change it, different fonts have different sizing methods, which would screw with the UI layout and could end up distorting the UI.

[DavidM]

No, but honestly, very few people ever change their system fonts. I haven't changed mine since XP, as every time you would change it, different fonts have different sizing methods, which would screw with the UI layout and could end up distorting the UI.

I never had to until, I got my new monitor 23" 1920x1080 and everything looks great but the fonts. Windows 7? No problem just change them - Verdana 9pt looks perfect, on Windows 8 - you're out of luck. I had to install, NoSquint for Firefox and bump text to 105% for websites.

I don't know if it's old age, or maybe 23" @ 1920 is a not a good size for reading, but it shouldn't be a problem I have to resort to hacking the registry to fix.

[Dot Matrix]

I never had to until, I got my new monitor 23" 1920x1080 and everything looks great but the fonts. Windows 7? No problem just change them - Verdana 9pt looks perfect, on Windows 8 - you're out of luck. I had to install, NoSquint for Firefox and bump text to 105% for websites.

I don't know if it's old age, or maybe 23" @ 1920 is a not a good size for reading, but it shouldn't be a problem I have to resort to hacking the registry to fix.

Did you try adjusting the aliasing?

[DavidM]

Did you try adjusting the aliasing?

Clear type? Yes, no help. The biggest problem is it's not a mono spaced font, so on certain words it runs together, it took me a while to figure out the fonts were giving me headaches if I used my computer for too long. My wife joked it was Microsofts way of getting me of the computer.

[Rickkins]

Curtsey Redroad on mdl...

[Growled Member]

Clear type? Yes, no help. The biggest problem is it's not a mono spaced font, so on certain words it runs together, it took me a while to figure out the fonts were giving me headaches if I used my computer for too long. My wife joked it was Microsofts way of getting me of the computer.

Maybe Windows 8 is Microsoft's way of getting all of us off the computer. :D

[neufuse Veteran]

Forbes, the same company that said XBOX360 would never bring microsoft to where sony was... the company that is obsessive about apple products... the company that said Google would destroy microsoft's business division...

[bviktor]

Uh. This article is just so full of sh*t. Like saying, the departure of Stephen Elop was a bad sign for Microsoft. Oh really? Yeah, it's so bad for Microsoft that he's making Nokia their exclusive handset vendor, right?

Furthermure, bashing Bing for its name (really? what's wrong with it?), and also bashing Windows Genuine Advantage for its name (who the hell cares, seriously?), saying that Sinofsky was left due to company culture, claiming that Google Docs is killing Office, saying that Microsoft's mere and only function is to provide an alternative to Google and Apple (wtf???), this article is really NOTHING else than a hatespeech.

[zeke009]

MS had to do something, the status quo was not going to work for them much longer. Win8 and WinPhone8 are them doing something. It may not be right or perfect, but it'll be the foundation for their future.

Changes like this a rarely a massive hit right out of the gate. Unfortunately; stories of hate, a company's demise and F.U.D. sell these days and that's what they post.

We've seen a few articles about how Apple or Google will fall from grace, they seem to holding pretty strong right now.

[Order_66]

Windows 7 and 8 both work, quite well, and both have shortcomings if you're going to look at them critically. People should use whatever works best for them.

Anyone happy with Windows 7, it's performance, and device support doesn't "need" to upgrade. There are no important apps that run on Windows 8 and not 7. But sooner or later, they will want to upgrade to 8 or 9, it is inevitable. Most of those who criticize 8 are trying to shape Blue or 9. Because clearly, there is work to be done. The Desktop Environment isn't going anywhere soon. The Modern UI cannot replace the Desktop Environment by any stretch of the imagination in its current state.

Not so sure about the eventual upgrade to 8 or 9, certainly most people will want to do some sort of upgrade but if 9 is anything like 8 I think it will only further push users away from microsoft products altogether and search out alternatives, or possibly even stay on 7, Vista or XP and feeling a growing contempt toward microsoft for never releasing a fitting upgrade beyond 7.

The whole windows 8 failure/fiasco would/could have been completely avoided altogether if microsoft would have allowed users a choice between using metro (or whatever it's called nowadays) and a traditional start menu, some will argue that if MS did this it would hinder advancement of a tile start screen but I disagree, if metro really is "better" and "easier" to use than previous implementations then microsoft would have nothing to worry about because people would eventually begin to toy around with it at some point and if it is in fact "better" than what people have been previously using then people would begin to use it more and more instead of previous methods.

Being a manager at a large electronics chain allows me to see reactions and hear opinions from consumers up close and personal, the overall feeling toward windows 8 machines is generally negative and even hostile at times, the real world is nothing like the microsoft zealots would like to to believe on these various tech forums, not even close.

[Luis Mazza]

Not so sure about the eventual upgrade to 8 or 9, certainly most people will want to do some sort of upgrade but if 9 is anything like 8 I think it will only further push users away from microsoft products altogether and search out alternatives, or possibly even stay on 7, Vista or XP and feeling a growing contempt toward microsoft for never releasing a fitting upgrade beyond 7.

The whole windows 8 failure/fiasco would/could have been completely avoided altogether if microsoft would have allowed users a choice between using metro (or whatever it's called nowadays) and a traditional start menu, some will argue that if MS did this it would hinder advancement of a tile start screen but I disagree, if metro really is "better" and "easier" to use than previous implementations then microsoft would have nothing to worry about because people would eventually begin to toy around with it at some point and if it is in fact "better" than what people have been previously using then people would begin to use it more and more instead of previous methods.

Being a manager at a large electronics chain allows me to see reactions and hear opinions from consumers up close and personal, the overall feeling toward windows 8 machines is generally negative and even hostile at times, the real world is nothing like the microsoft zealots would like to to believe on these various tech forums, not even close.

Thanks for reading and liking all the posts. People like you make me believe there's life and content in these threads and that not everything we do is sent to the trash! :)

[neufuse Veteran]

MS had to do something, the status quo was not going to work for them much longer. Win8 and WinPhone8 are them doing something. It may not be right or perfect, but it'll be the foundation for their future.

Changes like this a rarely a massive hit right out of the gate. Unfortunately; stories of hate, a company's demise and F.U.D. sell these days and that's what they post.

We've seen a few articles about how Apple or Google will fall from grace, they seem to holding pretty strong right now.

Oh heck, a few months ago people where saying Apple was going to hit $900+ a share... now they are saying it will be $480 and below in a few months...... markets fluctuate... people don't seem to understand that in the general public

[MorganX]

Being a manager at a large electronics chain allows me to see reactions and hear opinions from consumers up close and personal, the overall feeling toward windows 8 machines is generally negative and even hostile at times, the real world is nothing like the microsoft zealots would like to to believe on these various tech forums, not even close.

that we can agree on, especially with regards to tablet. But some of that is a part of "online forums" I suppose. Windows 8 still doesn't have Killer Apps yet, but Microsoft's inertia will flood the market. If that doesn't do it, nothing will. Christmas was a dud relatively speaking IMO. I do believe apps are coming, I believe Microsoft was in a hurry and outran developers.

[DeadEndAccount]

I would agree with Forbes there. If you aren't familiar with Mac OS, it takes a while to get used to and to find some of the things you might need (as evidenced anecdotally by me on the handful of occasions I'm asked by a family member to troubleshoot their mac). That's poor usability.

Or the fact that they're so used to Windows that they assume because Windows operates that way there for all computers must do. For me I didn't come from the Windows world when I migrated to Mac OS X (I was originally from the Atari/Amiga world) so the ideas of OS X were pretty much already inline with the way I was thinking. The larger point that should be made is the fact that Forbes made no caveats regarding their claim of it being more difficult - "for long term users of Windows the migration to Mac OS X might not be smooth sailing" would be a good caveat but the claim was that Mac OS X is lacking user friendliness full stop (across the board declaration) is silly. As for Windows usability stupidity - take the category view of the control panel and then come back and say it was a 'great idea' that 'should be replicated by others'.