23 posts in this topic

Posted

http://www.thelocal.fr/page/view/twitter-must-help-identify-racist-tweeters-french-court
[quote][size=7]France orders Twitter to help ID racist users[/size]

[size=3]Published: 24 Jan 2013 14:49 GMT+01:00 | Print version[/size]
[size=3]Updated: 24 Jan 2013 14:49 GMT+01:00[/size]

[size=5]A French court ruled on Thursday that Twitter must hand over data to help identify the authors of racist or anti-Semitic messages posted on its micro-blogging site.[/size]

[size=5]The ruling follows a legal complaint lodged in October by France's Union of Jewish Students (UEJF) which argued that numerous tweets had breached French law prohibiting incitement to racial hatred.[/size]

[size=5]The union took the legal action against Twitter to force the site to reveal details on people who posted a slew of anti-Semitic hate messages.[/size]

[size=5]The court in Paris on Thursday said Twitter must now do this "within the framework of its French site".[/size]

[size=5]Speaking to The Local after the court's decision the president of the UEJF Jonathan Hayoun said the ruling was important step in the fight against anti-Semitism.[/size]

[size=5]"Anti-Semitic abuse is just the same whether it's out on the street or on Twitter. The court has made it very clear that Twitter needs to help the police in identifying those who post hateful messages.The authorities must now do their job.[/size]

[size=5]" This is not an attack on freedom of speech at all. We are living in a climate of anti-Semitism in France."[/size]

[size=5]In October, the UEJF said it had forced Twitter to take down many offending tweets that had flooded the site under the hashtag #unbonjuif (#agoodjew), with examples including: "#agoodjew is a dead Jew".[/size]

[size=5]Following that, more anti-Semitic messages were sighted with a new keyword, #unjuifmort (#adeadjew).[/size]

[size=5]A Twitter spokesman refused at the time to comment directly on the tweets and reiterated the company's standard response that it "does not mediate content".[/size]

[size=5]He added: "If we are alerted to content that may be in violation of our terms of service, we will investigate each report and respond according to the policies and procedures outlined in our support pages."[/size]

[size=5]These state that Twitter cannot delete tweets but allow for accounts generating content in breach of its rules or considered illegal to be suspended.[/size]

[size=5]The site had also said it would not hand over details of account holders unless ordered to do so by a judge.[/size][/quote]

http://www.thelocal.fr/page/view/twitter-must-help-identify-racist-tweeters-french-court

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Posted

[quote]authors of racist or anti-Semitic messages posted on its micro-blogging site.
[/quote]

Would not they be one in the same? No freedom of speech in France..

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Posted

(Some) Jews at it again. Everything is anti-semitic to them.
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Posted

[quote name='2xSilverKnight' timestamp='1359047988' post='595476494']
(Some) Jews at it again. Everything is anti-semitic to them.
[/quote]
Saying that good Jews are dead Jews certainly sounds antisemitic to me...

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Posted

This will spark even more jew jokes.

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Posted

[quote name='Aethec' timestamp='1359048312' post='595476502']
Saying that good Jews are dead Jews certainly sounds antisemitic to me...
[/quote]

Yeah it is ... but I see that word beeing abused all the time.
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Posted

[quote name='2xSilverKnight' timestamp='1359047988' post='595476494']
(Some) Jews at it again. Everything is anti-semitic to them.
[/quote]

TBH, the tweets in question are clearly anti-semitic, I've seen quite a few of them.

And yes there is freedom of speech in France, as long as it does not impede someone else's rights, this is the general consensus. Only Hate speech, libel and slander are considered unlawful [i][b]if proven [/b][/i]and can therefore be subject to prosecution if a physical or moral person presses charges.

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Posted

[quote name='2xSilverKnight' timestamp='1359048484' post='595476508']
What ? :huh:
[/quote]
I'm guessing you didn't fully read the article.

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Posted

Racism = No. Homophobic = Ok.

Yeh France you make sense.....

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Posted

[quote name='Anaron' timestamp='1359048586' post='595476514']
I'm guessing you didn't fully read the article.
[/quote]

Yeah I didn't saw the tweets. I changed my post.

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Posted

[quote name='Colicab' timestamp='1359048821' post='595476524']
Racism = No. Homophobic = Ok.

Yeh France you make sense.....
[/quote]
Wrong, explicitly homophobic language is also considered hate speech and therefore subject to prosecution, however, there's a bit of a gray area in this case. Charges can be pressed only if the homophobic speech is directed at an individual.

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Posted

well, i do know some people who change the word to 'gay' for stuff they dont' like.

example:
playstation -> gaystation
GeForce -> gayforce

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Posted

It concerns me that anti-Semitism is treated more seriously than other forms of persecution, especially when the holocaust is invoked to justify it (though I'm not saying that's the case here). Anti-Semitism should fall under 'racial discrimination' or 'religious hatred', both of which are valid offences to prosecute. And let me be very clear, I am [b][i]not[/i][/b] excusing such racist comments in any way - I find them abhorrent. I just think it's dangerous to treat anti-Semitism differently to the hatred of Muslims or black people, especially when it is used to shield Israel from any criticism.

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Posted

Isn't it just as easy to ignore tweets ?

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Posted

And the thread has devolved into the usual hate crap, and being apologetic to hate because you dislike a country

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Posted

[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1359050305' post='595476568']
It concerns me that anti-Semitism is treated more seriously than other forms of persecution, especially when the holocaust is invoked to justify it (though I'm not saying that's the case here). Anti-Semitism should fall under 'racial discrimination' or 'religious hatred', both of which are valid offences to prosecute. And let me be very clear, I am [b][i]not[/i][/b] excusing such racist comments in any way - I find them abhorrent. I just think it's dangerous to treat anti-Semitism differently to the hatred of Muslims or black people, especially when it is used to shield Israel from any criticism.
[/quote]

There's a cultural question when it comes about knowing why anti-semitism is treated differently. Jews often consider themselves as the oppressed choosen people, it's in their culture (I'm not talking about religion there), I have some Jewish friends whom I talked about this, and they agreed. The direct consequence is that they are extremely vocal about any kind of agression against them, hence the perceived difference in treatment.

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[quote name='Arkos Reed' timestamp='1359050660' post='595476590']There's a cultural question when it comes about knowing why anti-semitism is treated differently. Jews often consider themselves as the oppressed choosen people, it's in their culture (I'm not talking about religion there), I have some Jewish friends whom I talked about this, and they agreed. The direct consequence is that they are extremely vocal about any kind of agression against them, hence the perceived difference in treatment.[/quote]

And that's understandable given their troubled history. But I have an issue when anti-Semitism is considered a separate crime, especially as it is usually treated more seriously (especially in Europe due to Hitler's legacy). It's even more concerning when critics of Israel are automatically labelled "anti-Semites" (even if they are Jewish) when elements within Israel - particularly the Zionist / settler movement - are committing crimes comparable to that of the Nazis. Racism is racism.

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Posted

[quote name='Arkos Reed' timestamp='1359050660' post='595476590']
There's a cultural question when it comes about knowing why anti-semitism is treated differently. Jews often consider themselves as the oppressed choosen people, it's in their culture (I'm not talking about religion there), I have some Jewish friends whom I talked about this, and they agreed. The direct consequence is that they are extremely vocal about any kind of agression against them, hence the perceived difference in treatment.
[/quote]

Yea a lot of Jews consider themselves an oppressed people, though its not any different from the fact that black people consider themselves an oppressed people, or Muslims consider themselves an oppressed people. There's examples of hypersensitivity in all these cases.

As for the Israel thing, I find it ironic that some of the same people criticizing being called 'anti-Semitic' for opposing Israel also are happy to call people homophobic for disagreeing with same-sex marriage, or racist for pointing out problems in the black community (out of wedlock births, and so on), or anti-Muslim for arguing Islam historically is a reactionary religion. Part of the reason they may notice overuse of "anti-semitism" and not overuse of "homophobic", "racist" and "Islamphobe" is their politics. People on the left who are anti-Israel but also anti-conservative so like to accuse conservatives of being bigots. Just sayin'.

There were alleged homophobic tweets in this case,btw, http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/french-court-orders-twitter-to-identify-racist-and-anti-semitic-users/ , ie #SiMonFilsEstGay (if my son is gay)

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Posted

[quote name='brianshapiro' timestamp='1359051584' post='595476646']
Yea a lot of Jews consider themselves an oppressed people, though its not any different from the fact that black people consider themselves an oppressed people, or Muslims consider themselves an oppressed people. There's examples of hypersensitivity in all these cases.
[/quote]
TBH, Muslims and Blacks don't get much airtime about this, or aren't as vocal as Jews over here, it's however true that there have been some very public cases.

[quote]
As for the Israel thing, I find it ironic that some of the same people criticizing being called 'anti-Semitic' for opposing Israel also are happy to call people homophobic for disagreeing with same-sex marriage, or racist for pointing out problems in the black community (out of wedlock births, and so on), or anti-Muslim for arguing Islam historically is a reactionary religion. Part of the reason they may notice overuse of "anti-semitism" and not overuse of "homophobic", "racist" and "Islamphobe" is their politics. People on the left who are anti-Israel but also anti-conservative so like to accuse conservatives of being bigots. Just sayin'.
[/quote]
True, however politic is a domain I won't touch even with a 10 Ft pole.

[quote]
There were alleged homophobic tweets in this case,btw, [url="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/french-court-orders-twitter-to-identify-racist-and-anti-semitic-users/"]http://arstechnica.c...-semitic-users/[/url] , ie #SiMonFilsEstGay (if my son is gay)
[/quote]
Also true, and as far as I know these will also be prosecuted.

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Posted

[quote name='brianshapiro' timestamp='1359051584' post='595476646']As for the Israel thing, I find it ironic that some of the same people criticizing being called 'anti-Semitic' for opposing Israel also are happy to call people homophobic for disagreeing with same-sex marriage, or racist for pointing out problems in the black community (out of wedlock births, and so on), or anti-Muslim for arguing Islam historically is a reactionary religion. Part of the reason they may notice overuse of "anti-semitism" and not overuse of "homophobic", "racist" and "Islamphobe" is their politics. People on the left who are anti-Israel but also anti-conservative so like to accuse conservatives of being bigots. Just sayin'.[/quote]

I agree. My point certainly isn't to excuse people who call everyone opposed to gay marriage homophobic, as I know people who aren't homophobic but oppose gay marriage (my Dad, for instance). Nor is it right to label any analysis of issues by race as inherently racist, though that can be a fine line. But it's wrong to single out anti-Semitism, just like it would be wrong for racism against black people to be covered by different laws than racism against white people or Asian people. It's counter-productive to race relations.

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[quote name='theyarecomingforyou' timestamp='1359052568' post='595476684']
I agree. My point certainly isn't to excuse people who call everyone opposed to gay marriage homophobic, as I know people who aren't homophobic but oppose gay marriage (my Dad, for instance). Nor is it right to label any analysis of issues by race as inherently racist, though that can be a fine line. But it's wrong to single out anti-Semitism, just like it would be wrong for racism against black people to be covered by different laws than racism against white people or Asian people. It's counter-productive to race relations.
[/quote]

Not to mention the scientific fact that there are no "races" there is just one Homo Sapiens humanity (the Homo Sapiens Sapiens denomination has been abandonned in 2003), with a few differences here and there depending on how populations were mixed in the last 200.000 years. I know I sound like a grammar Nazi, but this misuse of language always irritates me.

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[quote name='Arkos Reed' timestamp='1359053184' post='595476714']
Not to mention the scientific fact that there are no "races" there is just one Homo Sapiens humanity (the Homo Sapiens Sapiens denomination has been abandonned in 2003), with a few differences here and there depending on how populations were mixed in the last 200.000 years. I know I sound like a grammar Nazi, but this misuse of language always irritates me.
[/quote]

Actually, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)"]race[/url] is different to species.

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Posted

Hate is always wrong.

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