144 replies to this topic 9 votes

[+techbeck]

cork1958, on 28 January 2013 - 13:29, said:

Simply can not believe that there are that many adults who can actually tolerate that totally insane and unbelievable junk, and sometime just can not resist posting my feelings on that dumb a** s**t!!

Its called learning to tolerate others and their views...whether you like it or not. I am sure there are things you do that others do not like. Goes back to what my parents told me when growing up...dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. Yes, sometimes things get out of hand ,but when it happens more often than not...then you have a problem.

I know people who likes American Idol, Soap Operas, Bad Girls Club, and yes,,,WWE. To each their own. They are not making me watch it or forcing it on others, so it really doesnt impact me.

And people trolling and posting certain comments are not doing so to show their intelligence. They do so to stirr up trouble. An intelligent person would be able to post maturely without causing any kind of back lash.

[Exynos]

Mephistopheles, on 28 January 2013 - 13:52, said:

For Zarquon's sake. Some of you still don't get it.

The poll in its published form was daft because all it did is fuel the fire and incite flame wars. If a member had posted the very same poll on the forum the topic would have been closed and the member warned. Double standards much?

It also made Neowin look rather silly to visitors. Can that be what the news staff is after? Attract visitors with troll-ish headlines for the sake of getting more clicks? I think not. I was under the assumption that the editors have at least some journalistic standards.

And lastly, it's regardless of which company the poll had been about. Apple, Google, MS -. the way it was asked would have been daft all the same.

Let me tell you something. The poll was not there to fuel the fire and incite flame wars. The poll was all fine until the angry fanboises and the whiners came here and started to cry like a baby because they don't like to hear bad things about their loved company. That's the problem.

If you feel the question is there to wake up trolls, then it's the trolls problem for not being able to control them self and act like a normal person.

techbeck, on 28 January 2013 - 13:56, said:

Its called learning to tolerate others and their views...whether you like it or not. I am sure there are things you do that others do not like. Goes back to what my parents told me when growing up...dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. Yes, sometimes things get out of hand ,but when it happens more often than not...then you have a problem.

I know people who likes American Idol, Soap Operas, Bad Girls Club, and yes,,,WWE. To each their own. They are not making me watch it or forcing it on others, so it really doesnt impact me.

And people trolling and posting certain comments are not doing so to show their intelligence. They do so to stirr up trouble. An intelligent person would be able to post maturely without causing any kind of back lash.

Mephistopheles, this guy is also providing my point

[Mikeffer]

theyarecomingforyou, on 28 January 2013 - 13:54, said:

It's a leading question. I really don't know how to make it any clearer.

The question was "Do you hate apple?" was it not? If so, not a leading question more a direct question.
To be fair, if i walked up to you in the street and asked it, then it could be perceived as leading, however in the context of this forum and attached to a poll, it's not a leading question.

I'd agree with you more if the question had been "Why do you hate Apple?".

[theyarecomingforyou]

Mikeffer, on 28 January 2013 - 14:03, said:

The question was "Do you hate apple?" was it not? If so, not a leading question more a direct question.
I'd agree with you more if the question had been "Why do you hate Apple?".

You clearly didn't read the page I linked to. It's all explained there.

Quote

In common law systems that rely on testimony by witnesses, a leading question or suggestive interrogation is a question that suggests the particular answer or contains the information the examiner is looking to have confirmed.

Scorpus wanted the poll to show that people hated Apple so that he could "create a follow-up editorial on why you shouldn't hate a company" - this was all stated in the OP. He used a leading question to get elicit the result he desired. Unsurprisingly it backfired and generated a lot of hostility.

[Mikeffer]

theyarecomingforyou, on 28 January 2013 - 14:16, said:

You clearly didn't read the page I linked to. It's all explained there.

Sorry, i updated my post before you quoted it. I updated to explain what i meant a bit more clearly.
Not totally disagreeing with you, more realizing it's a bit of a grey area.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Mikeffer, on 28 January 2013 - 14:19, said:

Sorry, i updated my post before you quoted it. I updated to explain what i meant a bit more clearly.
Not totally disagreeing with you, more realizing it's a bit of a grey area.

I understand roughly where you're coming from and I don't think the question was "oh my God!" bad but it was obviously going to be hugely controversial, whereas the poll—and subsequent editorial—would have been much more meaningful had the question been asked properly.

[Javik]

Whilst I to some degree understand the original intention of the post (I don't even use Apple products personally) the whole episode was just an example of really bad PR that seems to be getting a bit more common here at Neowin lately, and the juvenile responses of some members, and even to some degree some of the staff are both shocking and saddening, as I said in the other thread I have known Falk for years and he simply isn't a guy that stirs trouble for no reason.

Point is, things do need to change around here. I appreciate that it's impossible to keep people's opinion completely out of articles but seeing things like the "Should be shot" article will just put people off coming here. Trollish flamebait does nothing for anyone. And like it or lump it, the facts is that to anyone that isn't a complete Microsoft shill (and particularly to the users of Apple and Google products) Neowin is a hostile board, and it keeps getting more hostile. And what's worse the majority of the staff do nothing to clean up the trolling in the Google, Apple and Linux threads these days.

The general site stats show declining visitors. The staff blame the members or the nature of the Internet, and the members blame each other. Sooner or later the way Neowin is run has to be looked at, in my opinion changes do need to be made, from the top all the way down to the bottom. Incidents like this are most unsavoury and sooner or later lessons about this have to be learned.

I also must commend Barney's decency and fairness, it's an attitude a lot here could learn from.

[Mark]

xendrome, on 28 January 2013 - 13:25, said:

It really wasn't an article, it was a simple poll, there was no discussion beyond that as stated in the post. Not sure how anyone could take it so personally or think it was biased in any way, since there was no story/commentary at all to go along with it.



Freedom of speech only applies to the government censoring it's people. It has nothing to do with private media, in the work place, etc.

It's about context. Also, I didn't take it personally. It's just a fact, if you ask someone "do you hate ketchup?", you're priming their response. You've already shown a bias in the way you asked the question. If you were to ask "how do you feel about ketchup?" it is both open to more discussion and it doesnt have a negative connotation in the question. It doesn't mean to say that either would fail to reach the goal but more success is likely to be gained from the latter. Hate is a very strong word. I neither love or hate apple, there's a large spectrum in between though and with a poll like that, you're totally ignoring it.

[xendrome]

Mark, on 28 January 2013 - 15:36, said:

It's about context. Also, I didn't take it personally. It's just a fact, if you ask someone "do you hate ketchup?", you're priming their response. You've already shown a bias in the way you asked the question.

I totally disagree, as someone pointed out earlier, if it was asked as "Why do you hate ketchup?" then I could see it, but to take "Do you hate ketchup?" which has a "yes" or "no" answer, and try to turn it around and say you are asking a leading question is completely ridiculous.

[xendrome]

<<Thread Cleaned>> - Serious topic, please don't post generated meme images.

[theyarecomingforyou]

xendrome, on 28 January 2013 - 15:39, said:

I totally disagree, as someone pointed out earlier, if it was asked as "Why do you hate ketchup?" then I could see it, but to take "Do you hate ketchup?" which has a "yes" or "no" answer, and try to turn it around and say you are asking a leading question is completely ridiculous.

But "do you hate ketchup?" is a leading question. Even asking "do you like Apple?" is a leading question but "like" is generally considered a neutral position, whereas "dislike" is considered much stronger and "hate" is the extreme end. The point is there is an agenda, just like asking "do you think Bill Gates a paedophile?" - I mean, that's a neutral question, right? The fact that it was about Apple, when Neowin is generally considered a Windows site, only exacerbated the issue. Limiting the response to "yes" and "no", while slanting the question is simply bad journalism - as is pre-determining the editorial that will follow it. This was compounded by Scorpus only apologising for the upset, not the poll itself.

I haven't seen any indication that staff at Neowin actually understand why people are annoyed / critical of the decision.

[warwagon]

This reminds me of a thread I made about a year ago. Asking why Mac's are overpriced, or something like that. The thread was like a wildfire. Within an hour I had like 20 pages. Then it got closed. The debate (for a lack of a better word) going inside the thread was AWESOME! Within 2 hours the thread got locked. I was sad

[Pikey]

I'm already looking forward to the next Weekend poll , it's going to be MASSIVE!!

[CSharp.]

Pikey, on 28 January 2013 - 19:00, said:

I'm already looking forward to the next Weekend poll , it's going to be MASSIVE!!

Maybe one to get a read on what people think of this site. I suggest a neutral question like 'Do you think Neowin is going down the drain?'

[compl3x]

theyarecomingforyou, on 28 January 2013 - 12:36, said:

Regardless of people's opinions, this topic was necessary for the healing process.

Healing process? You don't think that is just a wee bit dramatic? This is concerning a poll on an Internet forum, not the aftermath of a school massacre.