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Son billed $781 after dad dies waiting for ambulance

washington dc ems records ambulance unavailable dc council member

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#46 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:19

I think you may need a cigarette or something. You seem could be having a nic-fit. I invite you to report me, I would be curious to what you would say. As much as everyone would like an ambulance to cost $50, its just not possible no matter how much you scream, kick, cry, or justify. But if you could do it for that, I feel you have a moral obligation to start a hospital and offer your services to them. like I said, you would save America hundreds of billions of dollars. You have my vote.

I don't smoke but good job showing you just assume crap. Whole point of the screen name. Explains why you think it actually costs $700+ to move an ambulance from point A to point B.

Again, you are claiming I have your vote and you are ignoring votes don't get you in charge of a hospital, money does. Stop ignoring facts. I never said the cost has to be brought all the way down to $50. You are still claiming that a $700+ charge for a $50 service is acceptable. Sounds like you would make a great owner of a hospital since that is how they currently do business. Rarely is no service applied. Two valid trips of an ambulance priced at $75 for just the response would have covered the one time it wasn't needed. But you are still arguing that a law from congress is the only possible solution. It is a money hungry business. Shareholders and owners want their money and until that changes, hospitals will charge $700+ for a $50 service when no service was given.


#47 jakem1

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:28

That is so loaded with bullcrap its not even funny. You get an ambulance, they don't first ask for a credit card.


So do you ever have to pay for that ambulance ride? If so, what happens if you don't pay? Is the penalty associated with non-payment enough to put people off calling an ambulance if they know they can't afford one?

You might not like the way that I put it but the reality is that the universal system here in the UK does ensure that everyone can access health services (including ambulance rides) regardless of their financial situation.

#48 Tuishimi

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:30

Well, I had done some research on the topic of healthcare awhile back in regards to France, not as confident about the UK... but several items stood out. First, medical procedures/costs are regulated. Where a root canal costs $600-$1200 here, it would cost 100 Euros in France. Doctors are also paid about 1/3 about what doctors in the US are paid. France also controls access to health care professionals ... who you can see and when. Finally, France taxes at around 38% tp 43% (for a typical family, if you have more children you pay less, if you have fewer you pay more). Another telling figure for France was that 90% of the citizens purchase supplemental insurance. Finally, doctors are allowed to charge more than the baseline for more/better care and apparently most do (ie. the insurance does NOT cover it all).

To sum it up (France, I don't know about UK):

1. Higher taxes than in the US by at least 10%, closer to 15% and 20%.
2. Price setting by the gov't. (procedure prices and doctor wages).
3. Regulated access to healthcare professionals. (you don't get to see specialists unless referred onward)
4. 90% of people pay for supplemental insurance. (that cost is not figured in when the cost research was done)
5. You can pay more than the social medicine covers in costs if you want better care. (apparently most doctors offer this)

In regards to the statement about an ambulance ride. All people can take an ambulance whether you have money or not. So what our UK friend said was basically a lie, which is probably why the US poster responded as he did.

#49 Deleted Bye

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:31

I don't smoke but good job showing you just assume crap. Whole point of the screen name. Explains why you think it actually costs $700+ to move an ambulance from point A to point B.

Again, you are claiming I have your vote and you are ignoring votes don't get you in charge of a hospital, money does. Stop ignoring facts. I never said the cost has to be brought all the way down to $50. You are still claiming that a $700+ charge for a $50 service is acceptable. Sounds like you would make a great owner of a hospital since that is how they currently do business.

$700 does seem excessive i do agree, I also agree I do not know all the details about how the number is calculated. Behind the curtians of almost every industry, people can be shocked at added expenses. And you can apply that to any service or product.
Examples:
A) Why does it cost $100/hour for a mechanic? Isn't he only paid $20/hr?
b) Why does windows 7/8 cost $**? Doesn't the disc only cost $0.50?
c) Why do airlines charge me MORE then the cost of the fuel to go somewhere when the plain is full of other passengers?

I am a very cheap person. I hate high costs and I 100% hate the greed of people. But when it comes to the issues of life, there is certain minimums that must be applied that can't be had for "cheap". I think for sure the hospital things are out of control and the pricing is stupid ridiculous and without correction the industry is going to suffer eventually. All I said in this particular post was the "todays" justification value. I didn't mean for it to be morally correct or incorrect. It was just a reason of "why" it was $700.

#50 Tuishimi

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:32

Looked back over my old notes and saw this:

...the figures for GB do not take into account that corporations also provide supplemental health insurance. Because it is socially run there is also this: "The median wait time for a consultant led first appointment in English hospitals is a little over 3 weeks."

[edit]

Businessweek was a major source for this information.

#51 jakem1

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:37

Well, I had done some research on the topic of healthcare awhile back in regards to France, not as confident about the UK... but several items stood out. First, medical procedures/costs are regulated. Where a root canal costs $600-$1200 here, it would cost 100 Euros in France. Doctors are also paid about 1/3 about what doctors in the US are paid. France also controls access to health care professionals ... who you can see and when. Finally, France taxes at around 38% tp 43% (for a typical family, if you have more children you pay less, if you have fewer you pay more). Another telling figure for France was that 90% of the citizens purchase supplemental insurance. Finally, doctors are allowed to charge more than the baseline for more/better care and apparently most do (ie. the insurance does NOT cover it all).

To sum it up (France, I don't know about UK):

1. Higher taxes than in the US by at least 10%, closer to 15% and 20%.
2. Price setting by the gov't. (procedure prices and doctor wages).
3. Regulated access to healthcare professionals. (you don't get to see specialists unless referred onward)
4. 90% of people pay for supplemental insurance. (that cost is not figured in when the cost research was done)
5. You can pay more than the social medicine covers in costs if you want better care. (apparently most doctors offer this)

In regards to the statement about an ambulance ride. All people can take an ambulance whether you have money or not. So what our UK friend said was basically a lie, which is probably why the US poster responded as he did.


Yes, we pay higher taxes to cover healthcare in the UK but we spend less on healthcare per capita than the US does. There is regulation of healthcare professionals wages (doctors, specialists, nurses, dentists, etc.) but they're not poorly paid. Private health insurance is available here in the UK but the majority don't pay for it because it's not necessary.

As for your last statement, I haven't lied about anything and it's silly to suggest that I have in a thread about a person who was sent a bill for an ambulance visit. The guy who responded had no right to respond the way he did but can't seem to help being rude to people.

#52 Tuishimi

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:43

As for your last statement, I haven't lied about anything and it's silly to suggest that I have in a thread about a person who was sent a bill for an ambulance visit. The guy who responded had no right to respond the way he did but can't seem to help being rude to people.


You said:

Not if you can't afford it. Here in the UK we support each other to ensure that everyone is cared for whereas in the US people can only use an ambulance if they can afford it.


That is not true. If it is not true, it is a lie.

Yes, we pay higher taxes to cover healthcare in the UK but we spend less on healthcare per capita than the US does. There is regulation of healthcare professionals wages (doctors, specialists, nurses, dentists, etc.) but they're not poorly paid. Private health insurance is available here in the UK but the majority don't pay for it because it's not necessary.


As I noted, (my above posts were in response to some UN report), even in the UK corporations also have insurance plans, and as I said most of my post was in regards to France's system, where a vast majority of people DO purchase extra insurance. Are you sure your figures are not heresay?

#53 Marshall

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 19:54

Thread Cleaned

Let's try to keep it civil.

#54 jakem1

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 23:04

That is not true. If it is not true, it is a lie.


Lucky everything's so black and white for you.

So are you saying that ambulances are free in the US? If not then I stand by what I said. If an ambulance is not free then people will choose not to call one, regardless of when they have to pay the bill.

As I noted, (my above posts were in response to some UN report), even in the UK corporations also have insurance plans, and as I said most of my post was in regards to France's system, where a vast majority of people DO purchase extra insurance. Are you sure your figures are not heresay?


I didn't provide any figures so I'm not sure what "heresay" (or even hearsay) has to do with it. If you want me to back my claims up then here's a link with admittedly dated figures that demonstrates that roughly 10% of the population in the UK has private health insurance:

http://www.privatehe...ical-insurance/

As the figure remained unchanged between 1992 and 2002 I'll assume it hasn't changed much in the following decade either. There's little need for private health insurance in the UK because the NHS is generally excellent and satisfaction rates are very high. Some companies do offer health insurance as part of an employee package but it's not considered necessary in the same way as it is in the US. For instance, I used to receive private health insurance through work but I ended up dropping it because it was a waste of money and I had to pay more tax on it.

And here's a comparison from 2010 on healthcare spending per capita in the US vs the UK and other countries:

http://www.guardian....-of-world-obama

I hope that helps. My sources are a little more concrete than your "some UN report".

#55 alpha2beta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 23:23

2 trained ER's, 1 Driver possibly trained in ER, phone system costs, medical insurance costs, $200,000 vehicle rental costs , after-service call check over and maintenance costs, and on and on and on... rent any $200k vehicle and driver for a couple hours and you are looking at the same bill. Now that one looks at it, its a damn cheap to get that for $700 considering what it is.


D!(k of month award to you buddy.

#56 Deleted Bye

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 00:21

D!(k of month award to you buddy.

not saying i agree, just giving the reason... don't shoot the messanger

#57 Clirion

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 00:53

Lucky everything's so black and white for you.

So are you saying that ambulances are free in the US? If not then I stand by what I said. If an ambulance is not free then people will choose not to call one, regardless of when they have to pay the bill.



I didn't provide any figures so I'm not sure what "heresay" (or even hearsay) has to do with it. If you want me to back my claims up then here's a link with admittedly dated figures that demonstrates that roughly 10% of the population in the UK has private health insurance:

http://www.privatehe...ical-insurance/

As the figure remained unchanged between 1992 and 2002 I'll assume it hasn't changed much in the following decade either. There's little need for private health insurance in the UK because the NHS is generally excellent and satisfaction rates are very high. Some companies do offer health insurance as part of an employee package but it's not considered necessary in the same way as it is in the US. For instance, I used to receive private health insurance through work but I ended up dropping it because it was a waste of money and I had to pay more tax on it.

And here's a comparison from 2010 on healthcare spending per capita in the US vs the UK and other countries:

http://www.guardian....-of-world-obama

I hope that helps. My sources are a little more concrete than your "some UN report".



Here again in this thread is how ambulance rides work in the US.

1. Ambulance is called for.
2. Ambulance arrives
3. Ambulance does transport or not.
4. Bill goes out to the Insurance company.
5. If not insurance company, then goes to the individual.
a. if the individual is above the line for Medicare/Medicaid, then they pay for it.
b. if the individual is eligible for Medicaid/Medicare, bill goes to that agency.

Now there are some municipalities that include Ambulances as part of their tax base.