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Shoplifting Suspect Dies In Crash During Chase

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#16 +Vykranth

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 21:49

In your mind they may be out of place, but I know of no-one that would cry a single tear for this person. I do not say that thieves deserve to die, but if they are stealing and then run (in a stolen vehicle), then they deserve all they get - whether it be arrest, or death by dangerous driving (their own driving).


And the other guy? Richard McGrath, 61, of Smithsburg who was in the car rammed by Adams. What did he do to be sent to the Hospital? Are you going to say he is collateral damage?


#17 metallithrax

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 21:57

And the other guy? Richard McGrath, 61, of Smithsburg who was in the car rammed by Adams. What did he do to be sent to the Hospital? Are you going to say he is collateral damage?

He did nothing wrong. But there is nothing to say that the accident wouldn't have happened even if the police weren't chasing. But seeing as they were, and the accident did happen, it is still the fault of the original criminal.

Police are there for a reason - to protect everyone, whether they be a business or a single person. If you have something stolen from your house/business/car, then you want the criminal caught.

#18 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 21:59

In your mind they may be out of place, but I know of no-one that would cry a single tear for this person. I do not say that thieves deserve to die, but if they are stealing and then run (in a stolen vehicle), then they deserve all they get - whether it be arrest, or death by dangerous driving (their own driving).


What about his parents, siblings, children and loved ones? You act as if someone who commits a crime cannot be loved by anybody. And what about the other driver who could have been killed as a result of the police chase? Innocent people shouldn't be put at risk due to reckless police pursuits; I'm not saying that's the case here but it should certainly be investigated.

He started the chase, he did not have to steal the car and run. He and he alone is responsible for his death.


He didn't start the chase - by definition the police pursuing him did. And while his actions obviously precipitated his death that doesn't absolve the police of any responsibility. The police cannot be above the law and if their actions contributed to his death then the officers should be held accountable.

well he wanted that darwin award & he got it


The guy was 58, so if he was going to have children he likely would have already had them by now. He's certainly not a contender for a Darwin Award.

#19 1941

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:03

And the other guy? Richard McGrath, 61, of Smithsburg who was in the car rammed by Adams. What did he do to be sent to the Hospital? Are you going to say he is collateral damage?


He had to be sent to the hospital, for the actions of Adams.

#20 metallithrax

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:07

What about his parents, siblings, children and loved ones? You act as if someone who commits a crime cannot be loved by anybody. And what about the other driver who could have been killed as a result of the police chase? Innocent people shouldn't be put at risk due to reckless police pursuits; I'm not saying that's the case here but it should certainly be investigated.



He didn't start the chase - by definition the police pursuing him did. And while his actions obviously precipitated his death that doesn't absolve the police of any responsibility. The police cannot be above the law and if their actions contributed to his death then the officers should be held accountable.



The guy was 58, so if he was going to have children he likely would have already had them by now. He's certainly not a contender for a Darwin Award.


So police should let any criminal who drives away from a crime get away? They all have families, be they criminals or police or innocent people. Each one is doing a job - criminals are stealing to support their family, policemen are trying to stop the criminals, and the families are usually the one who cry the loudest after the fact.

#21 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:17

He did nothing wrong. But there is nothing to say that the accident wouldn't have happened even if the police weren't chasing.


That's why there should be an investigation into the incident to determine whether the police pursuit contributed to the crash, as it's entirely possible that without pursuit the incident wouldn't have occurred.

But seeing as they were, and the accident did happen, it is still the fault of the original criminal.


Not if the police could have used other means to apprehend the suspect without putting the public at risk. The police have access to helicopters and they can radio ahead to set-up roadblocks or to divert the suspect onto quieter roads where there is less risk to the public. There are countless other ways to deal with such crimes.

He had to be sent to the hospital, for the actions of Adams.


And if the police pursuit contributed to the crash then the police are also responsible.

So police should let any criminal who drives away from a crime get away?


The police should determine the best way to apprehend the suspect with minimal risk to the public. If there is significant risk to the public in a police pursuit then yes, it should be avoided but that doesn't mean the suspect should be allowed to get away. Surprisingly enough there are other methods of policing than high speed pursuits.

All I'm saying is that every incident like this should be investigated to ensure that the general public was not put at undue risk and that the police officers acted appropriately. The police need to be held accountable for their actions. I'm not saying the police even did anything wrong, just that it should be investigated to ensure they did not.

#22 SierraSonic

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:18

He did nothing wrong. But there is nothing to say that the accident wouldn't have happened even if the police weren't chasing. But seeing as they were, and the accident did happen, it is still the fault of the original criminal.

Police are there for a reason - to protect everyone, whether they be a business or a single person. If you have something stolen from your house/business/car, then you want the criminal caught.

Wrong, police are not there to protect... people, property maybe, but according to the courts, cops do NOT have to protect people.

So police should let any criminal who drives away from a crime get away? They all have families, be they criminals or police or innocent people. Each one is doing a job - criminals are stealing to support their family, policemen are trying to stop the criminals, and the families are usually the one who cry the loudest after the fact.

Well there is keeping a bigger distance to possibly slow him down, or you know, air support. Or waiting until the car is found on the side of a road and then using DNA found in the car after the fact. Sure not instant results, but they do work as a alternative.

#23 1941

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:18

Adams started the chase when he fled. If you get caught speeding and do not stop, they will pursue you, to a certain point. Adams and only Adams is responsible for this entire incident. Adams is a criminal. And now he is a dead Criminal. I am done arguing with bleeding hearts that are always on the side of the criminal./ But on a side note, many Police Departments would not pursue a shoplifter. Most go by the severity of the crime. But we only know what was reported, you do not know what else this guy may have done prior to this. There could have been an outstanding warrant.

#24 SierraSonic

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 22:47

Adams started the chase when he fled. If you get caught speeding and do not stop, they will pursue you, to a certain point. Adams and only Adams is responsible for this entire incident. Adams is a criminal. And now he is a dead Criminal. I am done arguing with bleeding hearts that are always on the side of the criminal./

First of all, until he IS proven, (yes that means by the court systems), the police shouldn't be able to do more than to bring him in, obviously NOT AT ALL COSTS. Are you sure you are a supporter of the constitution? You are so gleeful in situations like this where people are having their rights attacked (due process), but it must be OK because YOU feel that legal process's do not need to be followed.

Second of all, officers are not required to pursue, in fact they are told to back down if it becomes too dangerous.

Third, life isn't black or white, pass or fail. You can be 51% at fault for something, which means that somewhere else there is 49% of the blame. Are you saying it should only matter who is MOST at fault?

The way you state things you could also be saying Adam's parents are at fault because if they didn't have a kid, non of this would have happened.

#25 Simon-

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 23:23

While I agree that a criminal who commits a petty crime does not deserve death for their crime, the circumstances that lead to their own death as a result of committing that crime are justified (eg: unintentionally die when they try to flee after committing said crime), which is when this happens. Sure it's harsh but that's the reality, they should not have done that crime leading to their death, and it is just one less scumbag for the community to worry about or pay for in the legal system because they were doing things that they shouldn't.

My concern is not with the scumbag who was chased but with the safety of the public. It is far more of a public danger to have a Police persuit in circumstances that could endanger the public than it is a public danger for the alleged to be stealing cloths from Sears. Head-on collision was just lucky that it was the alleged thief who was killed, and not the other driver. The other driver is "recovering" but he might have lifelong medical problems because of the collision, if the Police would have not been so aggressive with the persuit to push him into dangerous driving, then the innocent member of the public wouldn't need to be "recovering". They would have had security footage of him and a fair chance to know where he is going to strike next (the same store again), old fashioned Police work wouldn't go too far astray or for the Police to worry about more serious crimes than stealing cloths from Sears.

#26 theyarecomingforyou

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 23:53

Adams started the chase when he fled.


No. The definition of "chase" is "to follow rapidly in order to catch or overtake; pursue". His actions led the police to chase him but he did not initiate the chase. By definition the police started the chase.

I am done arguing with bleeding hearts that are always on the side of the criminal.


Nobody here is on the side of the criminal, people are simply critical of the police tactics used attempting to apprehend him. The real issue here is that other people were put at risk—as evidenced by the other driver in the collision who had to be hospitalised—likely as a result of the police pursuit. All I'm saying is that the actions of the police should be investigated, which is completely reasonable given that somebody died and another was injured - it's likely that other people were also put at risk by the pursuit.

#27 1941

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 23:56

While I agree that a criminal who commits a petty crime does not deserve death for their crime, the circumstances that lead to their own death as a result of committing that crime are justified (eg: unintentionally die when they try to flee after committing said crime), which this happens, sure it's harsh but that's the reality, they should not have done that leading to their death, and it is just one less scumbag for the community to worry about or pay for in the legal system because they were doing things that they shouldn't.

My concern is not with the scumbag who was chased but with the safety of the public. It is far more of a public danger to have a Police persuit in circumstances that could endanger the public than it is a public danger for the alleged to be stealing cloths from Sears. Head-on collision was just lucky that it was the alleged thief who was killed, and not the other driver. The other driver is "recovering" but he might have lifelong medical problems because of the collision, if the Police would have not been so aggressive with the persuit to push him into dangerous driving, then the innocent member of the public wouldn't need to be "recovering". They would have had security footage of him and a fair chance to know where he is going to strike next (the same store again), old fashioned Police work wouldn't go too far astray or for the Police to worry about more serious crimes than stealing cloths from Sears.


Many departments would not have started the pursuit of a shoplifter, but as I said earlier maybe he had outstanding warrants. They all have radios and you cannot out run one.

#28 McKay

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 00:15

I hope the role of the police in the crash is going to be investigated, as all too often such incidents are the result of aggressive pursuits. Police pursuits shouldn't increase the risk to other motorists and pedestrians. It's why most countries don't pursue suspects as aggressively as the US.


My Dad is a Policeman and you have to request permission to pursue someone now...

#29 OP Hum

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 00:52

Gee -- I wonder what the cause of death was :s

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#30 Growled

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 02:44

One thing about it, that thief will never steal again.



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