Microsoft, PC Manufacturers conspiracy ?

By Hum
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Grand Master

ahhell

Posted
Posted

Thought Microsoft Security Essentials when released would cut down on Family infecting there PC's with junk, but I find that i'm still helping family remove Trojans and junk off there PC's pretty regularly, gotten to the point only help Mom these days, rest I recommend to local small PC shop, as too much time cleaning there PCs

Most of Family though removed MSE when they saw it failed certification tests...So I guess up to them now what they use.

Maybe it's time that you educate your family instead of blaming MS for your woes....not that this has ANYTHING to do with the topic..of course.

Proficient

Churma

Posted
Posted

If you turn off secure boot in the EFI Bios then no you have zero issues dual booting into any other OS. Now, if the OEM locks down the EFI bios that is booty. I build my own rigs so I never have these issues. My latest rig the EFI Bios shipped with secure boot turned on and I scratched my head for a few minutes until I hunted down why I was getting a BCD loader non signed certificate error and then turned off secure boot.

I will have to probe some of my clients white boxes and see if they have the ability to turn off secure boot.

Grand Master

Torolol

Posted
Posted

UEFI secure boot is fine as long:

- Its allow Hardware Owner (not the hardware vendor) to change the UEFI keys

- hardware owner are allowed to disable the secure boot.

if the UEFI was set to disallow hardware owner to change the key, yes its became a locked system with planned obsolescene in mind.

its interesting that before announcing to build Surface RT themself,

Microsoft insist that users must be disallowed to disable secure boot, when secure boot is used in ARM system.

but user should be allowed to disable it on x86-64 system.

"On non-ARM systems, it is required to implement the ability to disable Secure Boot ..."

...

"On an ARM system, it is forbidden to enable Custom Mode. ... Disabling Secure MUST NOT be possible on ARM systems," Microsoft states.

why the differences?

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

Posted
Posted

UEFI secure boot is fine as long:

- Its allow Hardware Owner (not the hardware vendor) to change the UEFI keys

- hardware owner are allowed to disable the secure boot.

if the UEFI was set to disallow hardware owner to change the key, yes its became a locked system with planned obsolescene in mind.

its interesting that before announcing to build Surface RT themself,

Microsoft insist that users must be disallowed to disable secure boot, when secure boot is used in ARM system.

but user should be allowed to disable it on x86-64 system.

why the differences?

Because on ARM, the OS is tailored to the hardware. It's pointless. Tablets are not tinker toys. Don't want Windows 8? Buy another tablet.

  • BajiRav and remixedcat
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Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

Posted
Posted

Because on ARM, the OS is tailored to the hardware. It's pointless. Tablets are not tinker toys. Don't want Windows 8? Buy another tablet.

Sure they are. You just need to look at sites like XDA-Developers for proof of that.

  • HoochieMamma
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Contributor

tkaw220

Posted
Posted

If it weren't for the fact that 90% of PC users are uneducated and unwilling to learn about what they bought/use (but also cannot live without it these days) we wouldn't need "Secure Boot".

I got fed up of helping people with viruses and trojans taking up hours of my time (mostly for free) that I just prefer they go to someone else or even pay for a professional to help them now.

There is also huge numbers of user who uses "FREE" version and refuse to download update.

Mentor

ajua

Posted
Posted

I wonder how many manufactures allow you to turn off secure boot and how many don't? I have never seen a list of companies that say.

I bought an ASUS laptop back in December (A45A-MX2-H). It had the ability to disable or turn off UEFI Secure Boot. It has seen three or so UEFI/BIOS updates and since then, the option has been hidden or removed.

Grand Master

Torolol

Posted
Posted

Because on ARM, the OS is tailored to the hardware. It's pointless. Tablets are not tinker toys. Don't want Windows 8? Buy another tablet.

by your logic, Surface RT (Tegra3 - ARM based) was not a toy,

but

Surface Pro (x86-64 based) is a toy ?

surely that the opposite of what Microsoft have to say in their marketing campaign ...

Neowinian

Chaz Scholton

Posted
Posted

Okay, you won't be able to disable it on an ARM system. You can disable it on a x86-64 systems. UEFI secure boot can be viewed as both a good and bad thing. For the majority of people using WIN8 on tablets (end user customers) how many really want to use dual boot anyways?

Most of the people in my family and my friends, simply want to turn on their computers go online, play games or do things without the hassle of viruses and their PC's giving them a hard time. People just want easy to use, reliable computers to do what they want to do.

Most tablet PC owners, or those that own portable devices are not tinkering around with things to these levels. I'm pretty certain there will be open alternatives for those which do. If you don't want to deal with UEFI Win8 lockdowns on a ARM tablet. Don't buy one, Buy another tablet. The Market will be responding to this.

An alternative to dual booting, is running Linux in a Virtual system (VMware and etc), does UEFI prevent this from happening on an ARM system? It would seem that if Linux applications were so important to somebody they would explore alternatives besides dual boot.

Hackers/Virus programmers exploit how open a system really is. If lock downs like this mean, I get less phone calls for help from family and friends. GREAT! They ain't so tech savvy to begin with. They buy a new PC, love it for awhile, and then within a couple of months are calling it piece of junk that they'd love to throw out the damn window. If WIN8 ARM tablets prove to be more stable and reliable because of a lock down like this. This should be a great thing. Less headaches for Tablet makers, Microsoft and those of us with family and friends constantly bugging us to help fix their computer issues.

I don't have people bugging me to come over and fix their xBox, their Sony Play Stations, or their iPADs or iPhones (insert list of devices more stable compared to an X86/64 PC running Windows whatever).

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

I wonder how many manufactures allow you to turn off secure boot and how many don't? I have never seen a list of companies that say.

It is required for Windows 8 certification. If the PC has a Windows 8 sticker, users should be able to disable it.

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