Jump to content

63 posts in this topic

Posted

Microsoft doesn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Let's just wait for Build to see what happens.  I think they might be jumping to conclusions before we get facts.

 

There is a lot of negativity and a lot of it is just undeserved and over-the-top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Let's just wait for Build to see what happens.  I think you might be jumping to conclusions before we get facts.

 

Me?

 

As it stands right now it is factual, if it changes at Build then success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Anyone who has watched Microsoft over the years shouldn't be surprised by any of this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Me?

 

As it stands right now it is factual, if it changes at Build then success.

  I went back and corrected it.  I don't remember Microsoft ever putting out information about development on the Xbox One. Can you provide me with a link other than that.  I don't trust sources right now because they have an agenda against Microsoft and it's not rational. 

 

This is the only thing that I can find on the subject....

 

We're working on a plan for (sic). Xbox One is a platform that allows all creators, including those who work on games and apps, regardless of team size, funding, biz model, etc. to be a part of the future of Xbox One.

 

That was from Major Nelson.  So, I would be very careful to assume anything right now as people are not going to trust Microsoft on anything, because they are angry that they thought they were getting their rights taken away.  

 

The Internet is the worlds largest lynch mob and a lot of times it's simply undeserved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wow, that's quite enlightening. The comment about how it makes you think the developer chose to go with Microsoft for money. That is exactly what I have always thought - that they go with Microsoft on a timed exclusive for a bit of extra cash.
 
 

You can update your game for free, as patches won't cost anything.

I wonder if this is just for indies or if it will apply to any game on the PS4? One thing that really irritated me this generation was developers basically saying "we'd love to fix our broken game, but we can't due to Microsoft/Sony". Just let 'em release as many patches as they need damnit!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They haven't talked about the Xbox One Store at all.  The only thing they said for the Xbox One is that they're going to have one single place for XBLA and XBLIG unlike on the 360.  That to me means that the Xbox Store will be just like the Windows Store.  In fact, the whole reason Xbox is now going to be a part of BUILD, when it has never been, is exactly because they're going to make it just like how it is on Windows and Windows Phone.  That is, the above mentioned revshare, but that will probably be if you just want a non-Xbox Live supported game.   I'm not sure how it works to get a Xbox Live Arcade type game on Windows 8 and Windows Phone, but then again, "arcade" titles don't mean "indie" anyways.    When you're part of the Xbox Live Arcade brand MS pushes and markets your title as part of the deal so them asking for a bit more hoops for you to jump through makes sense to me.

 

Indie games aside, I expect the Xbox Store to be opened to 3rd party apps as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Lorne Lanning talked about the One in the OP...... Oddworld is a next gen release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They haven't talked about the Xbox One Store at all.  The only thing they said for the Xbox One is that they're going to have one single place for XBLA and XBLIG unlike on the 360.  That to me means that the Xbox Store will be just like the Windows Store.  In fact, the whole reason Xbox is now going to be a part of BUILD, when it has never been, is exactly because they're going to make it just like how it is on Windows and Windows Phone.  That is, the above mentioned revshare, but that will probably be if you just want a non-Xbox Live supported game.   I'm not sure how it works to get a Xbox Live Arcade type game on Windows 8 and Windows Phone, but then again, "arcade" titles don't mean "indie" anyways.    When you're part of the Xbox Live Arcade brand MS pushes and markets your title as part of the deal so them asking for a bit more hoops for you to jump through makes sense to me.

 

Indie games aside, I expect the Xbox Store to be opened to 3rd party apps as well.

 

  I am happy that they are dropping the titles.  Instead of Xbox Live Arcade and Indie titles, just pull out the title so that they can just be games.  There is no reason to separate them with titles because people will think they are of less value.


Lorne Lanning talked about the One in the OP...... Oddworld is a next gen release.

 

Who is Lorne Lanning and how does he know whats going on?  Again, I wouldn't trust someone that has been out of the game business since 2001.   Just like I don't trust Johnathan Blow to understand "cloud processing".

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Anyone who has watched Microsoft over the years shouldn't be surprised by any of this. 

Bull...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Anyone who has watched Microsoft over the years shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

Yeah, this has unfortunately been standard behavior for a long time.

Kinda surprised to see people just starting to pick up on it now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

  I am happy that they are dropping the titles.  Instead of Xbox Live Arcade and Indie titles, just pull out the title so that they can just be games.  There is no reason to separate them with titles because people will think they are of less value.


 

Who is Lorne Lanning and how does he know whats going on?  Again, I wouldn't trust someone that has been out of the game business since 2001.   Just like I don't trust Johnathan Blow to understand "cloud processing".

 

Are you serious? How about the Oddworld guys are actually releasing a game, are developers, know what the process currently is for the Xbox One and you are none of those/aren't doing any of those.

 

And as for saying the policies haven't been spoken about - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-22-microsoft-wont-let-indies-self-publish-on-xbox-one

 

In contrast to Sony with its PlayStation Store, Nintendo with its eShop and Valve with Steam, Microsoft won't let independent developers self-publish on Xbox One.

 

Instead, they must seek a publishing deal either with Microsoft itself or a third-party - as is the case with Xbox 360 and Xbox Live Arcade currently.

 

When Shacknews asked if developers would still need a publisher to get content onto Xbox Live, Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, said: "As of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

 

He added: "I would also expect that for this new generation, that we're going to continue to explore new business models and new ways of surfacing content. But Microsoft Studios is a publisher that works with a wide range of partners, as do a lot of other people, to bring digital content to the box."

 

Microsoft's decision may make it much harder for indie games to appear on Xbox One than the PS4, Wii U and Steam, and it has already been questioned by developers. "Oh dear," wrote Thomas Was Alone designer Mike Bithell on Twitter. "So it looks like you won't be seeing #project2 on your Xbox One..."

 

And this, from Toki Tori 2 developer Two Tribes, also on Twitter: "No self publishing on Xbox One probably means no Two Tribes games. This was really a chance for Microsoft to fix the broken XBLA setup. :("

 

Just Add Water's Stranger's Wrath HD was one high-profile game that failed to release on Xbox 360 because of Microsoft's strict rules.

 

Sony in particular has made a strong indie game push in recent months. Two weeks ago it launched an indie game category on the PlayStation Store. Before that it secured the release of a number of eye-catching indie games for PlayStation, including Luftrausers, Hotline Miami and the aforementioned Thomas Was Alone. Eurogamer's Jeffrey Matulef investigated the Japanese company's new-found love of all things indie in a feature published last month.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This this story true, its unlikely for MS to change it,
and existing big 'approved' publishers are liking the xbox one policy and putting pressure to MSFT to keep it this way.

Why? becasue in this policy, MS creates a closed 'competition' between publishers,
the approved publishers are abosulutely delighted with this as there will be no new rivals will emerges on market,
and anyone who want to enter the marketplace must join existing publishers, more power for existing publishers.

And if the approved publishers wish to, they can form a unified cartel that will steer the marketplace as they see fit,
like absolute profits maximization, that imposible to achieve if theres independent publisher around.

Perhaps as compensation those publishers will pay a bit more royalties to microsoft.


This can be compared to how Fascism economy works.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Although I have been vocal about the DRM & 24hr authentication, their relationship with indies is what bothers me most about the X1. My stance on the DRM is more or less the principles behind those decisions and what is ultimately best for the gamers more than it ever impacting me personally. Like I've said before, I have had an unlimited always-on internet connection for a long time & I don't buy 2nd hand games, but I still don't agree with them.

 

Indies though are far more important in my eyes to the success of either the PS4 or X1. The **** Cliff B comes out with that AAA are going to exploit gamers even more next gen because of the removal of DRM is absolute nonsense. The man was so bold as to say that he only cares about money last night. That type of developer doesn't care about your experience when you game & quite frankly it's nothing but a good thing he is unemployed & left Epic. Otherwise we'd still be playing GoW slightly updated edition for the next 5 years. It's too bad that People Can Fly will now fill that void :/

 

I'm sure I don't represent the majority when it comes to taste in games, but what I do see is an increase in those who agree with my thoughts the past few years. That probably means I'm lumped in with the "hardcore" crowd that is ahead of the gaming trend curve. For years (and even today still), most people seem to only care about Battlefield/CoD (insert your favourite FPS franchise) & sport titles. The stereotypical dude bro gamer. Now though you are starting to see more and more people outgrow that trend and want something fresh. The Last of Us, Bioshock and Tomb Raider are all testament to that this year so far. It's not enough though and the real innovation is much further down the scale. Cliff B said that we're going to see an increase in mobile/PC games with the changes made yesterday. He says that like it's a bad thing? Maybe it should ring alarm bells to him that chasing the same genre is the problem & not the consumer to blame.

 

Microsoft for many years saw & explored the indie scene with support on XBLA. They took the initiative to bring Minecraft to XBLA (albeit pretty late), and it boosted the sales another 6 million. Sony too had some hits with PSN on PS3 with Journey/Unfinished Swan/PixelJunk. They are only the tip of the iceberg though and it's thanks to indies that PC gaming has been rejuvenated the last few years IMO. Microsoft either lost interest or began to focus all their efforts on X1 & have forgotten about indies at this stage though. Every interview coming out is in a negative spotlight what it's like to work for them. I do think some of it is blown over the top & some restrctions or "essentials" are required to keep XBLA a smooth experience.

 

Sony are definitely on the right track when it comes to PS4 & indies. Their E3 briefing gave them the spotlight they deserved whereas Microsoft said nothing. Killing XNA/refusing self publishing is really going to come back & hurt them. If they could just for one second forget about exploiting gamer's wallets & giving back to gaming maybe they'd understand.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Are you serious? How about the Oddworld guys are actually releasing a game, are developers, know what the process currently is for the Xbox One and you are none of those/aren't doing any of those.

 

And as for saying the policies haven't been spoken about - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-22-microsoft-wont-let-indies-self-publish-on-xbox-one

 

  I know about Oddworld from 2001.  That doesn't mean anything and that article doesn't explain anything either.

For example that quote I got back from Major Nelson conflicts with what that eurogamer article says. 

 

 I know, its hard for you to understand, but I want facts from Microsoft.  That is the only thing that matters. I don't care about what some developer says because they are simply not in the know. 

 

 Facts are all that matter and the source of those facts are Microsoft since they built the console, everything else is irrelevant.

 

We know for example that many developers at GDC 2013 had no idea what was going on with Microsoft, it was all speculation and rumor.  I want facts from the source.  The closest I could find was what Major Nelson said. 

 

"We're working on a plan for (sic). Xbox One is a platform that allows all creators, including those who work on games and apps, regardless of team size, funding, biz model, etc. to be a part of the future of Xbox One."

 

From Major Nelson (who works for Microsoft) and we know that the build conference is coming later this month and hopefully should have more information on development for the Xbox One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

XBLA is a stellar service and has been for 8 years now.  Not sure what they need to "fix".  That said, they already allow this on the Windows 8/WP8 platform, so there's no reason to think they won't for Xbox One.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.

MS tried to innovate.  Look where that got them.  :|

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Did they? I think they tried to line their pocket tbh.

 

And for the final time, DRM/24hr activation is not required for the things they want to do. There are other ways. If Reddit/Neogaf can come up with solutions better than Microsoft you know something is wrong. Also, I'm not strictly speaking about those issues either. In fact, my concern is the same AAA games released every year & publishers/developers getting pissed because people aren't buying it any more. No shit right?

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Did they? I think they tried to line their pocket tbh.

 

And for the final time, DRM/24hr activation is not required for the things they want to do. There are other ways. If Reddit/Neogaf can come up with solutions better than Microsoft you know something is wrong. Also, I'm not strictly speaking about those issues either. In fact, my concern is the same AAA games released every year & publishers/developers getting ****ed because people aren't buying it any more. No **** right?

 

What, how? I mean, I can argue back and forth that Microsoft knows better than Reddit/Neogaf, but it's obvious you won't concede that. At the end, it's always about money, but with people like you is more like "GREEEEEEEEEEEDY COMPANIES THAT WANT MONEY!!!!!"

 

Also, we can't even discuss the family sharing feature. Because as soon as someone points something good, the only argument around these forums becomes "YOU ARE DELUSIONAL IF YOU BELIEVE THAT WAS GOING TO BE TRUE" which just shows the lame backwards mindset of some of the individuals here.

 

But hey, let's stick to what we have, if it's not broken why fix it, right?  :rofl:

 

SOMEHOW, all of this is just a greedy scheme for Microsoft (but funny that some people forget Sony is also a corporation, double standars?).

 

Maybe next generation the backwards minded people won't interfere too much. MAYBE. :D

 

And honestly, I already posted some articule in one of the 10 threads regarding Indies and Microsoft, which explains why they are no longer wanting self-publishing. To make it short, some developers may get screwed because they have to get a publisher, but most of them just abuse the system and try to get some quick money from publishing awful games. Anyway, Indie is just a word now, these games have quite a big budget, but I suppose if you are not part of a big dev company you are Indie.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

  I went back and corrected it.  I don't remember Microsoft ever putting out information about development on the Xbox One. Can you provide me with a link other than that.  I don't trust sources right now because they have an agenda against Microsoft and it's not rational. 

 

This is the only thing that I can find on the subject....

 

We're working on a plan for (sic). Xbox One is a platform that allows all creators, including those who work on games and apps, regardless of team size, funding, biz model, etc. to be a part of the future of Xbox One.

 

That was from Major Nelson.  So, I would be very careful to assume anything right now as people are not going to trust Microsoft on anything, because they are angry that they thought they were getting their rights taken away.  

 

The Internet is the worlds largest lynch mob and a lot of times it's simply undeserved. 

 

My guess is that Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided that indie game development is part of programming, and belongs at build - not E3. So they'll have their announcement, just... after E3, not during it when everyone expects it to happen.

 

In a (what has become) typical Microsoft PR disaster, they don't release information when the consumer expects it, takes a lot of flack for it, and then release it later when everyone stopped caring.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

*was a stellar service. FTFY.

 

Anyone who games on PCs can tell you how lagging/far behind on the innovation they are in comparison. In the past year alone Steam/GoG/Desura have made XBLA look like a child's toy in comparison.

 

And before anyone jumps in that if you like "PC gaming, play PC games" BS, yeah congrats, you've brought nothing to the conversation & that doesn't fix anything. Indie devs are already switching in their droves to PC/PSN.

 

Please show me this "droves".  All we ever hear about is a couple of developers speaking out, while the rest are busy making money off of XBLA.  I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but it's still an excellent service that serves up great games.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Could MS have done the game sharing without the 24hr check?  Maybe, one way would be to require any system/account change, like installing a game or deleting it, to require a connection at that time for the process to complete.  Then the change gets registered on Live for your account.    Still I think even with something simple and reasonable as that that there would still be a group that wouldn't like it.

 

I've talked about tradeoffs before, any type of digital disc free service that will allow you to share your games with people will also require some type of security check.   There's just no way around it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What, how? I mean, I can argue back and forth that Microsoft knows better than Reddit/Neogaf, but it's obvious you won't concede that. At the end, it's always about money, but with people like you is more like "GREEEEEEEEEEEDY COMPANIES THAT WANT MONEY!!!!!"

 

Also, we can't even discuss the family sharing feature. Because as soon as someone points something good, the only argument around these forums becomes "YOU ARE DELUSIONAL IF YOU BELIEVE THAT WAS GOING TO BE TRUE" which just shows the lame backwards mindset of some of the individuals here.

 

But hey, let's stick to what we have, if it's not broken why fix it, right?  :rofl:

 

SOMEHOW, all of this is just a greedy scheme for Microsoft (but funny that some people forget Sony is also a corporation, double standars?).

 

Maybe next generation the backwards minded people won't interfere too much. MAYBE. :D

 

And honestly, I already posted some articule in one of the 10 threads regarding Indies and Microsoft, which explains why they are no longer wanting self-publishing. To make it short, some developers may get screwed because they have to get a publisher, but most of them just abuse the system and try to get some quick money from publishing awful games. Anyway, Indie is just a word now, these games have quite a big budget, but I suppose if you are not part of a big dev company you are Indie.

 

I'm not saying Reddit/Neogaf are perfect in their assessments of what should be done every time, but if we're talking about the DRM/24hr activation then yes, their solutions were better than Microsoft's. If the trade off is I need to use my disc offline then that's perfectly acceptable (just one example). I am not against Microsoft making money, they're running a business after all, so your accusation that I think they're just greedy or that somehow we are entitled to something is false. Maybe some people just need to get some balls and call out a company when they make a decision that doesn't make sense / infringes consumers rights. Thankfully that is the case and whatever the real reason they changed their minds, at least they saw sense in the end.

 

Of course there is advantages to the family sharing, or more so, there is advantages to a digital console. However, some of you clearly do believe that the console was going to allow you the freedom to share without restrictions which is ridiculous. The games weren't region free. I'm sure had they bothered to go into detail that would have cropped up & you wouldn't have been able to share Halo 5 with your Granny 5000 miles away in South Asia :rolleyes: More so, do you actually believe they would cut their sales down to 1 in 10 paying for a game between them, just because you need to be online to authenticate? Really?! Wow..

 

Microsoft no longer want self publishing? Are you suggesting that the 360 had self publishing to begin with on XBLA? lol Don't think I need to waste my time any more on that topic if that's the case.

 

Microsoft want what Steam has. An online distribution console under the TV in the living room, and that includes being able to allow indies to sell games. There is absolutely no reason to force developers to give away a % of their game. It doesn't prevent anything. Perhaps you missed the scandal earlier this year over Aliens CM? That wasn't even indie but it didn't stop SEGA publishing an awful game or Gearbox using bait/switch tactics for a cheap buck. So why would it stop anyone on XBLA/PSN/Steam or any other DD service. It doesn't, and I can name plenty of cheap cash grabs on all of them.

 

 

 

Please show me this "droves".  All we ever hear about is a couple of developers speaking out, while the rest are busy making money off of XBLA.  I'm not saying it couldn't be better, but it's still an excellent service that serves up great games.

 

Go watch the PS4 brief again then watch the X1's and tell me the numbers of indies. Even those that aren't speaking out are only releasing their games via PSN for consoles. Some even brave enough to test the waters on Nintendo Network. But a large amount all say they wish they'd never bothered with the XBLA version or that they didn't spend the time/effort/money to jump through Microsoft's hoops. There is a small number who are very vocal sure, but even the PS3 is getting hits like Hotline Miami exclusively over X360.

 

I know XBLA is good. It's the only redeeming feature for me today on 360 and why I have over 130+ XBLA games alone. I'm glad I've finally got you to admit it's flawed, because to suggest otherwise and I really would question your integrity/opinions on this forum. Steam doesn't even get it right 100% of the time either, but my point is MS have fallen behind and let go of the advantage they had. Steam have at least laid down the foundations for something indies can use to get their games on the platform easier. Sony are going out of their way to visit developers with dev kits / present to them their vision for PSN and why they'd be a good fit. All the while MS have wasted time on god knows what.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Could MS have done the game sharing without the 24hr check?  Maybe, one way would be to require any system/account change, like installing a game or deleting it, to require a connection at that time for the process to complete.  Then the change gets registered on Live for your account.    Still I think even with something simple and reasonable as that that there would still be a group that wouldn't like it.

 

I've talked about tradeoffs before, any type of digital disc free service that will allow you to share your games with people will also require some type of security check.   There's just no way around it.

 

what I thought they could've done was in order to trade/sell games

1) you would have to de-authenticate said game from your account and the system gives you a one use code for said game.

2) de-authenticated games are removed from the harddrive by the system but kept in the online repository (if the game is on a different hddnot connected to the system then it can't be de-authenticated).

3) if the user wants to re-authenticate said game they would need to use the 1 use code. if they trade the game to gamestop (or like place) the game is removed from the user's online repository. if another use on a different xbox use the code, the game is removed from the first user's repository and added to the later account.

I think that would've eliminated the need for a 24/hr check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.