Xbox One vs. indies: Microsoft bullies developers into signing with publish

[George P Global Moderator]

what I thought they could've done was in order to trade/sell games

1) you would have to de-authenticate said game from your account and the system gives you a one use code for said game.

2) de-authenticated games are removed from the harddrive by the system but kept in the online repository (if the game is on a different hddnot connected to the system then it can't be de-authenticated).

3) if the user wants to re-authenticate said game they would need to use the 1 use code. if they trade the game to gamestop (or like place) the game is removed from the user's online repository. if another use on a different xbox use the code, the game is removed from the first user's repository and added to the later account.

I think that would've eliminated the need for a 24/hr check.

Probably would also work but I think the 24hr check is specifically for the disc-less option, which is why when you do a action with said disc game I'd say it'd need to do a online call home to register.    I don't think it had much to do specifically with the whole used game bit but that that was effected by it as a outcome.   

[Graimer]

Probably would also work but I think the 24hr check is specifically for the disc-less option, which is why when you do a action with said disc game I'd say it'd need to do a online call home to register.    I don't think it had much to do specifically with the whole used game bit but that that was effected by it as a outcome.   

 

disc-less and family sharing (making sure only one plays the game at the same time)** :-)

[WinMunkee]

From what I can tell, the Xbox Marketplace is going to work like Windows 8's and you can self publish there.

[ahhell]

The big problem with self publishing is that because a dumping ground for crapware.

[Luc2k]

If MS are going to be ###### about this, indy devs should just ignore them. Surely all the other platforms have the user base to make any good game a success.

[ahhell]

If MS are going to be *******s about this, indy devs should just ignore them. Surely all the other platforms have the user base to make any good game a success.

Totally!!  They should ignore what's going to be a massive fanbase because who needs customers and money anyway!!

 

:|

[Noir Angel]

This is why I love PC gaming. No delivery system holds a monopoly so marketplace offerings need to be competitive to developers and customers to succeed. These days indie games are so popular that it's very disappointing to see Microsoft continue to spit on their developers like this. They, like all games companies should be encouraging developers to target their platform.

[Luc2k]

Totally!!  They should ignore what's going to be a massive fanbase because who needs customers and money anyway!!

 

:|

If the devs get so many customers and money out of the MS contracts, why are they complaining?

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

The big problem with self publishing is that because a dumping ground for crapware.

 

Even if that were the case, the "crapware" sinks to the bottom & the good games get the sales and attention they deserve. It's no different to how XBLA / XBLIG / PSN / Steam / App Store etc have operated for years.

 

Unless people are suggesting everything ever submitted to the above services is gaming gold? :blink:

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Even if that were the case, the "crapware" sinks to the bottom & the good games get the sales and attention they deserve. It's no different to how XBLA / XBLIG / PSN / Steam / App Store etc have operated for years.

 

Unless people are suggesting everything ever submitted to the above services is gaming gold? :blink:

 

It's a weaksauce excuse for oldhat policies. Have seen the "it prevents crap" punchline said pretty much this whole generation. Nothing ever prevents crap, quality simply rises.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Fez 2 ? Polytron has no plans to release it on Microsoft consoles

 

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/20/fez-2-polytron-has-no-plans-to-release-it-on-microsoft-consoles/

 

So that's Jonathan Blow, Phil Fish, Team Meat....List is growing....

[Yogurtmaster]

My guess is that Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, decided that indie game development is part of programming, and belongs at build - not E3. So they'll have their announcement, just... after E3, not during it when everyone expects it to happen.

 

In a (what has become) typical Microsoft PR disaster, they don't release information when the consumer expects it, takes a lot of flack for it, and then release it later when everyone stopped caring.

 

  Well, I don't blame them.  The Game Developers Conference (GDC) and Build are the places that Microsoft could have the announcement and there was another game conference that happened every year called GameFest.  I don't know if GameFest is still around or if they merged it into build. 

 

  E3 is an industry show, it's not something for developers.  Now you can meet other developers there and network, but it's not really where you show code. 

This is why I love PC gaming. No delivery system holds a monopoly so marketplace offerings need to be competitive to developers and customers to succeed. These days indie games are so popular that it's very disappointing to see Microsoft continue to spit on their developers like this. They, like all games companies should be encouraging developers to target their platform.

 

oh, I would say that steam holds a big marketshare on the PC.  I wouldn't worry so much about Microsoft and developers.  Microsoft knows where their bread is buttered.   I mean Steve says it all the time so much that I don't even need to quote him.

[ctrl_alt_delete]

Well looking at all these complaints......it seems like the goalpost is just constantly moving

[Luc2k]

Well looking at all these complaints......it seems like the goalpost is just constantly moving

Look on the bright side, there will always be something to defend MS from.

[JonnyLH]

Talk about taking quotes out of context. On the article linked referring to Indie devs:
"As of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

 

Did anyone miss the as of right now? As in, we haven't announced other wise. With the infrastructure of W8 and WP8 and how apps can dramtically change a platform, do you really think they would stick the middle finger to developers when they have thousands of apps which easily could get ported? Even if they are verified for quality, at least it'll provide a consistent platform. 

 

I love people how can jump to these detailed conclusions of unannounced business models on a few quotes.

 

Also, MS would never announce plans to Indie developers due to leaks. They're making assumptions based on what they have at the minute regarding Indie development, which is none. People really need to sit back and think.

[Torolol]

MS did need to communicate the business models to game dev, preferably enough time before launch,

otherwise xbox one would only have small amount of game title at launch.

[George P Global Moderator]

MS did need to communicate the business models to game dev, preferably enough time before launch,

otherwise xbox one would only have small amount of game title at launch.

 

That's to big AAA companies that use and pay for, full Xbox developer kits.  Indie developers don't, they use the software tools, like XNA, to make a game and just push it out to the store.  They just need to software, not the hardware, they're games also don't cost millions to make and 2 years of time either.    

 

It's been said a few times already, the clues are there but people want to deny them.  First off we know that they're not going to split the game stores in two like they have on the 360.  There is no longer going to be XBLA and XBLIG section.  ALL games will be in ONE store.    Second, Xbox is now a part of BUILD, MS's big developer event, it's never been a part of any developer event outside of a few small demos of XNA years ago.    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that what they're going to do is copy the same Windows Store and Windows Phone Store model on the Xbox One.   That means you get your nice free Visual Studio express for Xbox One SDK, you pay whatever store fee you have to pay, and you send in a game.  Of course the game has to pass their tests but that's nothing new.

 

Now, that works perfectly for indie games, I've seen lots of them on Windows 8 and WP8 already.   Any game on those platforms without the Xbox Live branding is a indie game.   Now what does it take to become a Xbox Live game and not just a indie game?  I don't know how it works on Windows 8 and WP so I can't say.   But those aren't thought of as indie games anyways.

[illage3]

I don't believe a single word from Major Nelson he's paid by Microsoft to put the Xbox in a positive light, and as for Indie Developers apparently not being "in the know" then explain the whole concept and point of dev kits?

 

Microsoft have royally screwed indie developers (apart from 4J Studios).

[JonnyLH]

I don't believe a single word from Major Nelson he's paid by Microsoft to put the Xbox in a positive light, and as for Indie Developers apparently not being "in the know" then explain the whole concept and point of dev kits?

 

Microsoft have royally screwed indie developers (apart from 4J Studios).

People don't understand the concept of the X1. The apps won't be running inside the Xbox VM but the Windows kernal. This will be developed for using usual tools I'm guessing in an Xbox flavour. None of this has been announced and won't be until build. I doubt there will be a self-publish model, but rather something that supports quality and interfaces like Kinect.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

I don't believe a single word from Major Nelson he's paid by Microsoft to put the Xbox in a positive light, and as for Indie Developers apparently not being "in the know" then explain the whole concept and point of dev kits?

 

Microsoft have royally screwed indie developers (apart from 4J Studios).

Yeah, it's almost as if he's an employee or something.

[George P Global Moderator]

As a best case I bet all it will take is for a indie dev who has a Windows 8 game out already to recompile with support for Xinput instead of just touch or mouse+kb and send.  

[JonnyLH]

I don't believe a single word from Major Nelson he's paid by Microsoft to put the Xbox in a positive light, and as for Indie Developers apparently not being "in the know" then explain the whole concept and point of dev kits?

 

Microsoft have royally screwed indie developers (apart from 4J Studios).

Yeah it's not like he didn't work on the product and is proud of it. Not at all.

[spenser.d]

Fez 2 ? Polytron has no plans to release it on Microsoft consoles

http://www.vg247.com/2013/06/20/fez-2-polytron-has-no-plans-to-release-it-on-microsoft-consoles/

So that's Jonathan Blow, Phil Fish, Team Meat....List is growing....

That's three. Still not droves. And Team Meat divorced themselves a long time ago so if its growing, its not growing very fast.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

+1 unhappy dev

 

Microsoft ?Institutionally Incompetent," Has ?****ed Up? Processes, Says Skulls of the Shogun Dev

 

Very very happy this game is no longer Win8/phone exclusive & coming to Steam. Talk about a death wish.

 

@Spenser.d it's not just the devs that speak out is my point you are missing. It is those who don't even want to bother with the platform at all now & skip it entirely for something better. XBLA SoA this summer is evident enough with that. The lineup is shocking.

 

@GP007, Sony did. They visited indies prior to E3/ I think Destination Playstation too & presented to them the PS4. Microsoft should have done the same.

[spenser.d]

+1 unhappy dev

Microsoft ?Institutionally Incompetent," Has ?****ed Up? Processes, Says Skulls of the Shogun Dev

Very very happy this game is no longer Win8/phone exclusive & coming to Steam. Talk about a death wish.

@Spenser.d it's not just the devs that speak out is my point you are missing. It is those who don't even want to bother with the platform at all now & skip it entirely for something better. XBLA SoA this summer is evident enough with that. The lineup is shocking.

@GP007, Sony did. They visited indies prior to E3/ I think Destination Playstation too & presented to them the PS4. Microsoft should have done the same.

I downloaded Skulls because MS put it front and center in the Win 8 store and advertised it heavily. They should be happy for that. Also got bored with the game after a couple hours and haven't been able to bring myself to play it again, so there's that too.

Like I said before I don't doubt it could be better, and they've broken down some of the barriers in Win 8 ecosystem, but if you're going to just listen to a handful of people who had a bad experience and ignore the fact that there are many many more who aren't complaining and are making money off the Xbox platform, you're being disingenuous to that platform.