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#46 George P

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:36

As a best case I bet all it will take is for a indie dev who has a Windows 8 game out already to recompile with support for Xinput instead of just touch or mouse+kb and send.  




#47 JonnyLH

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:03

I don't believe a single word from Major Nelson he's paid by Microsoft to put the Xbox in a positive light, and as for Indie Developers apparently not being "in the know" then explain the whole concept and point of dev kits?

 

Microsoft have royally screwed indie developers (apart from 4J Studios).

Yeah it's not like he didn't work on the product and is proud of it. Not at all.



#48 spenser.d

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:27

Fez 2 – Polytron has no plans to release it on Microsoft consoles

http://www.vg247.com...osoft-consoles/

So that's Jonathan Blow, Phil Fish, Team Meat....List is growing....


That's three. Still not droves. And Team Meat divorced themselves a long time ago so if its growing, its not growing very fast.

#49 Andrew

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:53

+1 unhappy dev

 

Microsoft “Institutionally Incompetent," Has “****ed Up” Processes, Says Skulls of the Shogun Dev

 

Very very happy this game is no longer Win8/phone exclusive & coming to Steam. Talk about a death wish.

 

@Spenser.d it's not just the devs that speak out is my point you are missing. It is those who don't even want to bother with the platform at all now & skip it entirely for something better. XBLA SoA this summer is evident enough with that. The lineup is shocking.

 

@GP007, Sony did. They visited indies prior to E3/ I think Destination Playstation too & presented to them the PS4. Microsoft should have done the same.



#50 spenser.d

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:51

+1 unhappy dev

Microsoft “Institutionally Incompetent," Has “****ed Up” Processes, Says Skulls of the Shogun Dev

Very very happy this game is no longer Win8/phone exclusive & coming to Steam. Talk about a death wish.

@Spenser.d it's not just the devs that speak out is my point you are missing. It is those who don't even want to bother with the platform at all now & skip it entirely for something better. XBLA SoA this summer is evident enough with that. The lineup is shocking.

@GP007, Sony did. They visited indies prior to E3/ I think Destination Playstation too & presented to them the PS4. Microsoft should have done the same.

I downloaded Skulls because MS put it front and center in the Win 8 store and advertised it heavily. They should be happy for that. Also got bored with the game after a couple hours and haven't been able to bring myself to play it again, so there's that too.

Like I said before I don't doubt it could be better, and they've broken down some of the barriers in Win 8 ecosystem, but if you're going to just listen to a handful of people who had a bad experience and ignore the fact that there are many many more who aren't complaining and are making money off the Xbox platform, you're being disingenuous to that platform.

#51 BajiRav

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:58

+1 unhappy dev

 

Microsoft “Institutionally Incompetent," Has “****ed Up” Processes, Says Skulls of the Shogun Dev

 

Very very happy this game is no longer Win8/phone exclusive & coming to Steam. Talk about a death wish.

 

@Spenser.d it's not just the devs that speak out is my point you are missing. It is those who don't even want to bother with the platform at all now & skip it entirely for something better. XBLA SoA this summer is evident enough with that. The lineup is shocking.

 

@GP007, Sony did. They visited indies prior to E3/ I think Destination Playstation too & presented to them the PS4. Microsoft should have done the same.

Which of the Indie games received as much promotion from Sony as Skulls of the Shogun received from Microsoft? If you didn't know, it was heavily publicized on all three Stores, corporate blogs, twitter accounts and what not.

 

They're no way perfect and some of their policies are outdated (according to most devs) but all this thread is FUD prior to BUILD next week.

 

There is a reason Microsoft sorted the DRM mess this quick and in THIS WEEK. Now they don't have to deal with it at Build in 4 days.



#52 George P

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 13:12

I don't count Xbox Live branded/enabled games as "indie" games anymore.  Right now you need a publisher, be it MS or one of the others to be a Xbox Live game.   A "indie" doesn't have a publisher so a indie is all the other games I can get on WP and Windows 8 that don't use the live service as a backend.   Some of you want to make it sound like a developer isn't getting anything out of the deal and just shafted.   That's hardly the case.  As a publisher, Microsoft Studios can offer production, test, localization, marketing and more for a game.  There's also access to the whole Live backend to handle things that if you wanted to incorporate into your game you'd have to then write and support yourself often by having to rent out a server on your own and so on. 

 

Skulls of the Shogun benefited from letting me start a game on Xbox, resume on Windows 8, and also resume on WP later if I wanted, all thanks to the Live service doing it's magic from behind.    It also let people play with others regardless of which of the 3 platforms they're on at the time.   You tell me how you'd pull that off on your own as a small dev studio without costly servers and who knows how much time writing code to pull that off. 



#53 BajiRav

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 13:21

I don't count Xbox Live branded/enabled games as "indie" games anymore.  Right now you need a publisher, be it MS or one of the others to be a Xbox Live game.   A "indie" doesn't have a publisher so a indie is all the other games I can get on WP and Windows 8 that don't use the live service as a backend.   Some of you want to make it sound like a developer isn't getting anything out of the deal and just shafted.   That's hardly the case.  As a publisher, Microsoft Studios can offer production, test, localization, marketing and more for a game.  There's also access to the whole Live backend to handle things that if you wanted to incorporate into your game you'd have to then write and support yourself often by having to rent out a server on your own and so on. 

 

Skulls of the Shogun benefited from letting me start a game on Xbox, resume on Windows 8, and also resume on WP later if I wanted, all thanks to the Live service doing it's magic from behind.    It also let people play with others regardless of which of the 3 platforms they're on at the time.   You tell me how you'd pull that off on your own as a small dev studio without costly servers and who knows how much time writing code to pull that off. 

but that doesn't suite the narrative that Microsoft is the evil empire and Sony is ###### unicorns and angels.



#54 TheAncientOne

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 13:48

This this story true, its unlikely for MS to change it,
and existing big 'approved' publishers are liking the xbox one policy and putting pressure to MSFT to keep it this way.

Why? becasue in this policy, MS creates a closed 'competition' between publishers,
the approved publishers are abosulutely delighted with this as there will be no new rivals will emerges on market,
and anyone who want to enter the marketplace must join existing publishers, more power for existing publishers.

And if the approved publishers wish to, they can form a unified cartel that will steer the marketplace as they see fit,
like absolute profits maximization, that imposible to achieve if theres independent publisher around.

Perhaps as compensation those publishers will pay a bit more royalties to microsoft.


This can be compared to how Fascism economy works.

 

Good insight on the matter--I agree.  Sometimes you don't actually need hard proof to prove something--inference is a unique human ability to see with the mind's eyes.



#55 Javik

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 19:01

oh, I would say that steam holds a big marketshare on the PC.  I wouldn't worry so much about Microsoft and developers.  Microsoft knows where their bread is buttered.   I mean Steve says it all the time so much that I don't even need to quote him.

 

Steam has a high marketshare because it's awesome... but the point is Valve don't have the entire ecosystem locked down like Microsoft do with the Xbox, they can't use bully tactics to string developers along because releasing games independantly for PC is incredibly easy as PCs simply can't be locked down like consoles can. Valve in fact are very good to their developers and customers, apart from a small processing fee developers can use greenlight and if enough gamers think a project has merit they were inviting them to put their games on it for free. Great free mods like Black Mesa are in the process of making it onto Steam.

 

Now when was the last time you put Microsoft, Xbox marketplace, and free in the same sentence.



#56 helios01

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 19:17

 Indies will usually end up at the PC. Look at the PS3 and how indies have had to go through publishers. PS4 promises change so let's wait and see. 360 offered openness but no marketability to indie games. In the end for small indie developers looking to do their own things, the PC is the safest bet. And with technologies like HTML 5 taking over, it'll be all the more prevalent. 

 

 Have we heard what kits indies will have access to to develop for PS4? what are the prices?



#57 slapfacemcdougal

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 20:13

 Indies will usually end up at the PC. Look at the PS3 and how indies have had to go through publishers. PS4 promises change so let's wait and see. 360 offered openness but no marketability to indie games. In the end for small indie developers looking to do their own things, the PC is the safest bet. And with technologies like HTML 5 taking over, it'll be all the more prevalent. 

 

 Have we heard what kits indies will have access to to develop for PS4? what are the prices?

 

Indies can self publish on PS4. They most likely use the Playstation Mobile platform.



#58 Yogurtmaster

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 08:56

Steam has a high marketshare because it's awesome... but the point is Valve don't have the entire ecosystem locked down like Microsoft do with the Xbox, they can't use bully tactics to string developers along because releasing games independantly for PC is incredibly easy as PCs simply can't be locked down like consoles can. Valve in fact are very good to their developers and customers, apart from a small processing fee developers can use greenlight and if enough gamers think a project has merit they were inviting them to put their games on it for free. Great free mods like Black Mesa are in the process of making it onto Steam.

 

Now when was the last time you put Microsoft, Xbox marketplace, and free in the same sentence.

 

Yawn, bulling tactics.  A console is a console and has a locked down environment for a reason.  It has nothing to do with a certain company. 

 

When was the last time you understood a console is a console and a PC is a PC.  Common sense, try some.



#59 Darrian

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 09:09

If I were an Indie publisher I would simply publish everywhere except Xbox Live and push Windows games out through Steam.  Of course that would mean no Windows Phone app, and as a WP8 user it saddens me the lack of development on Windows Phone, but ###### like this is likely a good part of the reason why.



#60 George P

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 15:42

If I were an Indie publisher I would simply publish everywhere except Xbox Live and push Windows games out through Steam.  Of course that would mean no Windows Phone app, and as a WP8 user it saddens me the lack of development on Windows Phone, but bull**** like this is likely a good part of the reason why.

 

 

Not really, you only need a publisher to have a Xbox Live enabled game.  If you want a true indie game you just publish it to the store without Xbox Live support and revshare it like you would on steam or other digital stores.   It's all on what a developer wants.   To get the benefits of the Live backend services for your game you need one extra step and that is to get a publisher.   That could change with the Xbox One, we'll find out at BUILD in a few days.