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Overly obese Boy Scouts barred from Jamboree

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#46 thomastmc

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:31

But that's exactly why it is a fair comparison. Because it is acceptable to ridicule and make fun of and demean overweight people. But it's not (though that's subjective depending on who you are talking to of course) alright to make fun of someone because of race or sexual orientation etc.

 

No one bats an eye at jokes about "those fatties", right?

 

Not that it's alright to ridicule someone because of their weight, but...

 

Race and sexual orientation can't be changed, but the majority of people who are overweight are in their predicament because they are just eating too much bad food and not exercising enough, in other words, bad choices. People are ridiculed for the consequences of their bad choices all of the time.

 

How can you tell that most people are overweight due to environmental factors rather than a significant genetic predisposition?

 

Because of the enormous (no pun intended) rise in obesity over the last 20-30 years. It's not as if all of the sudden people just started being born at high rates with a significant genetic predisposition to being overweight in America.




#47 Shiranui

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 02:33

Not that it's alright to ridicule someone because of their weight, but...

 

Race and sexual orientation can't be changed, but the majority of people who are overweight are in their predicament because they are just eating too much bad food and not exercising enough, in other words, bad choices. People are ridiculed for the consequences of their bad choices all of the time.

 

How can you tell that most people are overweight due to environmental factors rather than a significant genetic predisposition?

 

Because of the enormous (no pun intended) rise in obesity over the last 20-30 years. It's not as if all of the sudden people just started being born at high rates with a significant predisposition to being overweight in America.

 

That's what I wanted to say, but couldn't be bothered to type.



#48 Torolol

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 04:05

Obescouts coming soon.



#49 blerk

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:24

Not that it's alright to ridicule someone because of their weight, but...

 

Race and sexual orientation can't be changed, but the majority of people who are overweight are in their predicament because they are just eating too much bad food and not exercising enough, in other words, bad choices. People are ridiculed for the consequences of their bad choices all of the time.

 

How can you tell that most people are overweight due to environmental factors rather than a significant genetic predisposition?

 

Because of the enormous (no pun intended) rise in obesity over the last 20-30 years. It's not as if all of the sudden people just started being born at high rates with a significant genetic predisposition to being overweight in America.

Also it's interesting to note that some cultures do prefer larger people and people actively try to become fatter. Many sub-Saharan African cultures are like this I believe; a larger person is seen as having more access to food and therefore is from a richer family and is thus better to marry. This preference seems to be found in resource-poor parts of the world.

 

Western culture (and other cultures - I believe many eastern Asian cultures have the same general outlook on fatness as us) tend to be richer, and obesity seems to be viewed as the result of gluttony and a lack of self-control - i.e. traits that are to be ridiculed. 



#50 thomastmc

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 05:45

Also it's interesting to note that some cultures do prefer larger people and people actively try to become fatter. Many sub-Saharan African cultures are like this I believe; a larger person is seen as having more access to food and therefore is from a richer family and is thus better to marry. This preference seems to be found in resource-poor parts of the world.

 

Western culture (and other cultures - I believe many eastern Asian cultures have the same general outlook on fatness as us) tend to be richer, and obesity seems to be viewed as the result of gluttony and a lack of self-control - i.e. traits that are to be ridiculed. 

 

Very true. This used to be somewhat true in America in the early to mid 20th century as well. A lot of the pin-up girls of that age were somewhat heavy by today's comparison.

 

I remember my Grandmother commenting on how tastes changed over time, saying "When I was younger, everyone liked the bigger girls, but I was thin. Now I'm bigger and everyone likes thinner girls". She was born in the 1920's.



#51 chrisj1968

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 06:45

So the message they are suppose to be sending is safety doesn't matter, just making sure everyone feels special and healthy even when they are not? Sorry, but if you are really going to knock an organization for doing something for the good of their members health, something is severely wrong with you.

 

LOL! with obesity rates as high as they are.. not many kids will be there. What about kids who their obesity is a medical condition? the the law of ADA might cause the scouts legal issues in the future. not everything is clear cut and dried I suppose.



#52 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 13:24

LOL! with obesity rates as high as they are.. not many kids will be there. What about kids who their obesity is a medical condition? the the law of ADA might cause the scouts legal issues in the future. not everything is clear cut and dried I suppose.

Not many kids will be there? Do you even know what kind of event you are talking about? They book this place months in advance because they always have to cut off reservations when they fill up. The law won't cause them issues because it is the law that is making it so they can't allow these kids to do the activities in the first place. Also worth mentioning that you don't have very many overly obese kids in Boy Scouts. Not because of anything the adults are doing, but because the kids are mean as hell. As far as this situation goes in the media, it is a no win situation. If they allow them to go, someone will get hurt and THEN it becomes a legal issue. If they don't allow them to go, we get whiny parents that refuse to raise there children to be healthy adults crying over it. And don't attempt to argue that the medical issues are the problem since all three of the major medical issues that cause obesity are all treatable. Just means the parents aren't taking care of there kids.



#53 vetLOC

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 14:23

I hate to tell you, but obesity is a systemic and genetic problem. Genetically, not much you can do about it, unless gene therapy or some such thing works in the future. The systemic problem is our society. Since the mid 20th century, the (incredible) rise of fast food and processed foods has all but obliterated our (normal) way of eating. HFCS alone is responsible  for so much of the crap going on these days, it's a damn wonder why it took so long for so many to realize how bad HFCS is in general.

 

The chickens we raise today are fatter than they were say, 50 years ago. The FDA is to blame for a large part of this as well, what with allowing growth hormones and what not to be injected (or just fed) to our livestock supplies. Not to mention because of technological advances - well, we are just lazier in general. Which leads to, hey wouldn't you know it, weight gain. Sure, you can have organic this and that, and not use cars and smartphones for everything under the sun. But when the world is literally swimming in McDonald's and KFC grease, it's pretty hard to stay healthy.

 

Video games, computers, television, hey why go outside and play when you can stay indoors and play - and eat potato chips up the wazoo and suck it all down with some HFCS infused soda beverage? I'm being overly dramatic of course, but that is the jist of it.



#54 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 14:49

I hate to tell you, but obesity is a systemic and genetic problem. Genetically, not much you can do about it, unless gene therapy or some such thing works in the future. The systemic problem is our society. Since the mid 20th century, the (incredible) rise of fast food and processed foods has all but obliterated our (normal) way of eating. HFCS alone is responsible  for so much of the crap going on these days, it's a damn wonder why it took so long for so many to realize how bad HFCS is in general.

 

The chickens we raise today are fatter than they were say, 50 years ago. The FDA is to blame for a large part of this as well, what with allowing growth hormones and what not to be injected (or just fed) to our livestock supplies. Not to mention because of technological advances - well, we are just lazier in general. Which leads to, hey wouldn't you know it, weight gain. Sure, you can have organic this and that, and not use cars and smartphones for everything under the sun. But when the world is literally swimming in McDonald's and KFC grease, it's pretty hard to stay healthy.

 

Video games, computers, television, hey why go outside and play when you can stay indoors and play - and eat potato chips up the wazoo and suck it all down with some HFCS infused soda beverage? I'm being overly dramatic of course, but that is the jist of it.

You can't change the genes currently, however all of the effects of the genetic issues are 100% treatable. You are 100% correct though when stating that laziness is a giant factor. Being fat is one thing. Genetics can make that happen. Letting yourself go from fat to overly obese is a totally different issue. Someone needs to tell these kids that if they continue to not take care of themselves, they will not be able to do the things everyone else can. Of course, in our PC world, that is not allowed to be said.



#55 HawkMan

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 15:35

I hate to tell you, but obesity is a systemic and genetic problem. Genetically, not much you can do about it, unless gene therapy or some such thing works in the future. The systemic problem is our society. Since the mid 20th century, the (incredible) rise of fast food and processed foods has all but obliterated our (normal) way of eating. HFCS alone is responsible  for so much of the crap going on these days, it's a damn wonder why it took so long for so many to realize how bad HFCS is in general.

 

The chickens we raise today are fatter than they were say, 50 years ago. The FDA is to blame for a large part of this as well, what with allowing growth hormones and what not to be injected (or just fed) to our livestock supplies. Not to mention because of technological advances - well, we are just lazier in general. Which leads to, hey wouldn't you know it, weight gain. Sure, you can have organic this and that, and not use cars and smartphones for everything under the sun. But when the world is literally swimming in McDonald's and KFC grease, it's pretty hard to stay healthy.

 

Video games, computers, television, hey why go outside and play when you can stay indoors and play - and eat potato chips up the wazoo and suck it all down with some HFCS infused soda beverage? I'm being overly dramatic of course, but that is the jist of it.

 

 

of course all those growth hormones we stuff into chickens and beef... guess where they and up after...



#56 vetLOC

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 16:06

You can't change the genes currently, however all of the effects of the genetic issues are 100% treatable. You are 100% correct though when stating that laziness is a giant factor. Being fat is one thing. Genetics can make that happen. Letting yourself go from fat to overly obese is a totally different issue. Someone needs to tell these kids that if they continue to not take care of themselves, they will not be able to do the things everyone else can. Of course, in our PC world, that is not allowed to be said.

 

But it isn't just letting yourself go as the issue. It's everything in our society that is (currently). On one hand you have the whole girls on magazine covers so thin you could break them in half by blowing on them, this sets a terrific example for our female youth. On the other, fast food everywhere! Everywhere. Resaurants are part of the problem also, portion sizes have gone through the roof over the past couple of decades or so, let alone calorie and fat amounts along with it. And yes, in this PC world everything is shamed on these days.

 

But not ridiculing fat people. Which circles me back to my original point - it's still acceptable to make fun of fat people.

 

of course all those growth hormones we stuff into chickens and beef... guess where they and up after...

 

Not in our food sir!



#57 ILikeTobacco

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 16:27

But it isn't just letting yourself go as the issue. It's everything in our society that is (currently). On one hand you have the whole girls on magazine covers so thin you could break them in half by blowing on them, this sets a terrific example for our female youth. On the other, fast food everywhere! Everywhere. Resaurants are part of the problem also, portion sizes have gone through the roof over the past couple of decades or so, let alone calorie and fat amounts along with it. And yes, in this PC world everything is shamed on these days.

 

But not ridiculing fat people. Which circles me back to my original point - it's still acceptable to make fun of fat people.

The thing is that the portion sizes were not brought about by the corporations. It was brought about by the consumers wanting it. It comes back to not teaching people self control anymore. What is crazy is that in our society, telling a child that they are obese and need to lose weight for health reasons is no different than making fun of them. Being PC has turned from making society nicer to making everyone lie to each other, including parents lying to their own kids and risking their health as a result.



#58 vetLOC

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 16:45

Consumers wanted it yes, but that's because a McDonald's burger has grown something like 33% since 1970 or something (don't quote me, that's totally from memory sorry lol) and still only costs a (marginally) small amount. Same with Burger King, and everybody else in the fast food space. So naturally restaurants had to keep up with portion sizes. Though that isn't the only reason of course.

 

And parents aren't only lying to kids. Parents just don't know any better most of the time now. I mean think about it, parents now, grew up when I grew up, in the 70's (and 60's etc) when fast food growth went through the roof. So they think like kids and teens do now, it's all a vicious circle sadly.



#59 OP Hum

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 17:18

I hate to tell you, but obesity is a systemic and genetic problem. Genetically, not much you can do about it, unless gene therapy or some such thing works in the future.

 Obesity is actually a mass negative Belief problem.

 

Foods will affect your body, in line with how you think they will. ;)