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Forza 5 "hardest thing Turn 10 has done", cloud offers 600% more AI


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#1 +Audioboxer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 11:44

 
Ask yourself this: what would you do with 600% more brainpower, funnelled to your skull from vast corporate servers? I suspect I'd devote my share to writing better article introductions. Speaking to OXM during our first look at Forza Motorsport 5, Turn 10's studio manager Alan Hartman and creative director Dan Greenawalt have revealed a little of the stress and excitement that accompanies the development of a shiny-shiny launch racer.
 
"I've been in the business for quite a while I've been leading game teams for 20 years," Hartman told us. "I've been here at Turn 10 for eight. In that time I've figured out the simple secret to running successful teams is creating an environment, a culture, that is safe that is challenging that is a place that attracts the best talent in the world and lets them do their best work.
 
"That's not terribly unique," he admitted. "It is something I could do anywhere. So why do I do it here? Because it's first party. And first party is so challenging."
As we reported yesterday, Hartman and Greenawalt say Microsoft has never ordered them to make use of this or that platform feature - the developers were "asked" rather than "told" to show players what the console can do. Turn 10, however, feels that it has a responsibility to test Xbox One's mettle, and Forza 5 is thus a fearsomely comprehensive illustration of the new hardware's capabilities.
 
Hartman went onto highlight "the kind of tools and technology and processes, and business practices we have to put in place to enable all that. That continuous flow of content that is not only a massive amount of content but quality content.
 
"We've kept the quality up, we've improved the quality year over year of that quantity, and we've kept the cadence. Because if you can't deliver when the platform needs you then it doesn't matter. We have to be there when they need us to showcase the platform."
 
Forza 5, in conclusion, is "a massive game, a quality game, an innovative game. At launch of the console. It's crazy hard. It's the hardest thing we've ever done. But it's exciting, we're having fun, but it's a huge challenge."
Turn 10 is particularly chuffed at being able to make use of Xbox One's cloud computing support for its much-sung Drivatar AI system, which trades out pre-scripted computer drivers for cloud-stored entities that learn from player behaviour. Greenawalt described the ability to offload such tasks to servers as a "tremendous opportunity".
 
"When you've got a learning neural network, more computing power is nothing but helpful. Because what you're able to do is process a lot more information, and you don't have to do it in realtime on the box. And that frees up more of the box to be doing graphics or audio or other computational areas.
 
"So we can now make our AI instead of just being 20%, 10% of the box's capability, we can make it 600% of the box's capability," he went on. "Put it in the cloud and free up that 10% or 20% to make the graphics better - on a box that's already more powerful than we worked on before."
 
I'll give you a few seconds to wash all the hyperbole out of your eyes. Done? Right. Here's another riddle: what kind of Drivatar do you think you'll unleash upon the world? The below video may be of some help.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.oxm.co.uk...-ai-capability/




#2 JonnyLH

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:11

This is a fantastic piece, proof that the off-loading of the AI on the cloud creates a better AI with more on the box to dedicate to other things. Makes more sense to see why Forza is running at 60fps with the fidelity it has.



#3 +InsaneNutter

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:12

So basically if your having trouble with a race, unplug the network cable and you will have 600% more chance of winning?

 

Interesting read all the same.



#4 lecter

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:16

What happens if I want to play Forza 5 in 10 years when no one will have kept the AI servers running? Will I simply get much dumber AI or will there be actual functionality issues?



#5 spacer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:38

What happens if I want to play Forza 5 in 10 years when no one will have kept the AI servers running? Will I simply get much dumber AI or will there be actual functionality issues?

You can technically do that on launch day as soon as you plug in the console; as long as you don't connect it to the internet. But then you get a useless disc since the game requires a day-1 patch.

 

My big question is, does using this drivatar-feature require a gold subscription? If it does, then that means the full (non-gimped), solo game requires an internet connection and a paid subscription which is pretty lame. Hopefully that's not the case, but I don't have high hopes.



#6 OP +Audioboxer

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:40

So basically if your having trouble with a race, unplug the network cable and you will have 600% more chance of winning?

 

Interesting read all the same.

 

driv43c38.gif



#7 blerk

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 12:48

I somewhat suspect that my drivatar will be the one that crashes into every car and wall, and spends more time in reverse than going forwards....  :/



#8 -T-

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 13:01

This sounds pretty cool, looking forward to this game. Good article AB, also interesting that others are looking for something negative from this

#9 vcfan

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 13:20



You can technically do that on launch day as soon as you plug in the console; as long as you don't connect it to the internet. But then you get a useless disc since the game requires a day-1 patch.

 

not true

 

http://www.neowin.ne...out-of-the-box/



#10 BajiRav

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:11

So those who had trouble following the X,Y,Z math - here is the official word

 

"So we can now make our AI instead of just being 20%, 10% of the box's capability, we can make it 600% of the box's capability," he went on. "Put it in the cloud and free up that 10% or 20% to make the graphics better - on a box that's already more powerful than we worked on before."



#11 psionicinversion

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:38

i think its like the cloud processes the AI algorithms for it and learns how the players drive so it makes it harder to win, then modifies the AI so maybe next race the opponents drive differently to try block you or something or maybe its done on the fly so all the AI is calculated there so doesnt bog down the processor. Even if the AI is working on a console that isnt plugged to the internet i cant imagine it wouldnt be any more "dumb" than any other racing game out there tbh!



#12 JonnyLH

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 14:46

If anyone wants to loose faith in society, look at the comments on Engadget about this subject.



#13 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 15:11

If anyone wants to loose faith in society, look at the comments on Engadget about this subject.

 

Yeah lot of confused people on their claiming it'd be 600% dumber if there was no internet connection. Some people just don't have a clue.



#14 threetonesun

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 15:17

Racing AI is not a great example of "using the cloud". Yes, allowing for more calculations can create an AI that stays competitive with you throughout the race, instead of rubber banding, but it's hard to say that's "better" AI.

 

So, I'm curious what comes of this, but considering racing sims are quite popular on PCs, and no one has every thought it necessary to resort to off shoring AI calculations to deliver better graphics, I'm guessing not much.



#15 Nilus

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 15:37

Have they announced any kind of Racing Wheel for Forza?  It is almost useless without one.

 

Microsoft hit on for a winner with their 360 wheel, it is a shame they ditched it for that awful wireless speed wheel thing.