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#1 JonnyLH

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:42

An article just posted on EDGE really drops it hard. Some snippets:
 

Our contacts have told us that memory reads on PS4 are 40-50 per cent quicker than Xbox One, and its ALU (Arithmetic Logic Unit) is around 50 per cent faster. One basic example we were given suggested that without optimisation for either console, a platform-agnostic development build can run at around 30FPS in 1920×1080 on PS4, but it’ll run at “20-something” FPS in 1600×900 on Xbox One. “Xbox One is weaker and it’s a pain to use its ESRAM,” concluded one developer.

Even this close to launch, “the hardware isn’t locked,” said another source. Sony and Microsoft are each still working on the graphics drivers for each console, and Xbox One is lagging behind in this regard – Microsoft “has been late on their drivers and that has been hurting them,” said one source. Another described Xbox One’s graphics drivers less charitably as “horrible”. Both consoles’ graphics drivers will continue to improve right up to – and beyond – launch, which will even up the difference in performance a little.

One source even suggested that enforcing parity across consoles could become a political issue between platform holders, developers and publishers. They said that it could damage perceptions of a cross platform title, not to mention Xbox One, if the PS4 version shipped with an obviously superior resolution and framerate; better to “castrate” the PS4 version and release near-identical games to avoid ruffling any feathers.

http://www.edge-onli...ne-performance/
 

This article screams hits and page views to me for several obvious reasons:

  • DirectX has been on the platform since the start, it's not buggy or "poor" it just works due to shared codebase. They also released their mono driver during E3 which is the specially optimised version of DirectX for the platform. So saying they have been late with drivers is wrong.
  • They mention "without optimisation". To me, that means someone is working these numbers out without a real kit, and is literally speculating for EDGE for their page views in this upcoming next-gen war. There is more offloaded inside the X1 to special CPU's than there is in the PS4 also.
  • ESRAM has been in the Xbox since the 360, for developers to say its a pain to use is just absurd since they share a similar memory structure. ESRAM will also be managed by DIrectX, its why the API is there. Ideal for GPU buffering, which DirectX will manage and mainly use it for.
  • Memory reads are 50% faster? From what? I can tell you as a fact that if its the CPU doing the memory read, it would be a heck lot slower. Even if its the GPU doing the read, it the developer doesn't implement the switching of tasks while waiting for GDDR return, then it'll still be slower. It depends how deep the OpenGL wrapper goes.
  • Also, the comments from Albert and many developers which have said: "Ever though the console which seemed less powerful is the one which is the most powerful?"
  • The article clearly states the hardware isn't locked even though both consoles have hit mass-production. 

There's been a similar thread on SonyGAF around this, and its hit 5 pages in 30 minutes. Everyone's ran with this "anonymous source" and not actually thought about it critically. Whereas a similar thread which praised the design of the Xbox SoC got closed in around 10 minutes. Considering the overly biased magazine cover also, this is no surprise.




#2 vcfan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 13:18

damage control because once you see the games not looking better than xbox versions, you will remember you read that article that said its because of politics. aren't these the same guys that had on their front page that ps4 is what you should buy? I wont even go into the blatant BS claims in there,because really, its comical.



#3 BajiRav

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 13:23

damage control because once you see the games not looking better than xbox versions, you will remember you read that article that said its because of politics. aren't these the same guys that had on their front page that ps4 is what you should buy? I wont even go into the blatant BS claims in there,because really, its comical.


Yeah, same people. They are clearly in the Sony camp. You don't put a console on your front page as "This is your next console" when opponent is showing better games.

#4 vcfan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 13:29

Yeah, same people. They are clearly in the Sony camp. You don't put a console on your front page as "This is your next console" when opponent is showing better games.

 

just looking at the end of the article sets everything up,and tells you everything you need to know

 


The difference between cross platform launch window games will be small, and improved graphics drivers plus the power of the cloud might yet tip the balance in Xbox One’s favour. Nonetheless, at launch, PS4 will be the more capable console.

 

yeah you wont see a difference,and yeah the xbox one might end up looking better, but the ps4 is more powerful.



#5 Showan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 16:15

If the PS4 is better looking... I can live with it.. I will Exchange a slight graphics bump, for everything else I will get for $500 (who am I kidding, I will end up owning both. DO NOT TELL MY WIFE  :woot: )

 

More of these comparison's I've been reading, have come from developers who make smaller games that don't even come close to tapping the power of the  HORSIE'S (Horse Power) of the next gen boxes.

 

If PS4 games look better, then bravo...   :D



#6 trooper11

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 16:48

So obviously Sony fanboys will use this as a flag to wave around and bash the X1, but for us that are genuinely interested in the differences and impact on development, how trustworthy is the source?

 

I'm not talking about Edge necessarily, but whoever gave them the info they are sharing.

 

The reason I ask is because we have articles that seem to go against each other.  This one paints the X1 as a vastly inferior console hardware wise and difficult to develop for, but then we already have other technical articles recently that would paint the X1 as a close competitor or even make the case that it offers some advantages within the specs.  So who can we believe?  Its hard to ignore the fact that there is a lot of angst and hate thrown the X1s way vs the PS4 for the usual fanboy reasons, but that can't discount this article.  If its proven false, well then that's pretty ridiculous, but if its true, then its something to worry about. 

 

Sure, you can believe the articles that happen to match your opinion of MS and the X1, but that's just foolish.  What happens if another article comes out refuting these claims?  Do we dismiss those because we happen to prefer the idea that the X1 is seriously inferior, or are we stuck wondering. I see MS make claims that are quickly bashed and ignored and then claims against the X1 are quickly held up as the truth and supported.

 

As a console buyer, I'm fairly confused.  This whole spec argument seems to be turning into a witch hunt.  Unfortunately, on the internet, people can say things that are not true and can even right articles about them, so I don't know who is trustworthy in this case.



#7 Showan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 18:22

Hating Microsoft is the "Hottness"... All the kewl kids are doing it (right?...right?). The Xbox One will be fine for this console generation.

Will Sony have a power house gaming console? Well I would hope so for what's under the hood.

But none of that concerns me. I don't think it concerns any true fan of Xbox.
It's everyone else who favors a different console who are going bat nuts over it.
Funny thing is, people have seen the Xbox One, know its awesome, and then refuse to believe its the real deal...
It's like they have this fear of the Xbox One being that good. I believe in my heart it will be that good.

#8 Growled

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 18:31

The real struggle ain't what's under the hood. It's in the hearts and minds that both sides are trying to win.



#9 GotBored

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:22

The specs difference isn't something new, everyone should has known by now that the PS4 is the more powerful system.. But from the posts here I didn't really expect the software/drivers to be behind also.

 

Also Microsoft Studios are featured partners for Edge Online so I highly doubt they would be biased against them.

 

The article states good and bad points for both the PS4 and Xbox One, it just says non-optimized games can run better on a system with more 'raw' power and that multi-platform games will likely not look much better on the PS4 because developers don't want their games to seem like they have a preference to one console and also because it costs them more; they will build on the base system and then optimize it for the PS4 and PC and the more optimizations the longer it takes to build = more expenses.

 

Better graphics does sell hardware in gaming, but the difference will be negligible especially on multi-plat games.



#10 Aergan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:16

I don't think the majority of games will differ in graphical quality for cross-platform launches. Due to the higher graphical fill rate, you may find that over time Sony end up having a higher number of games running @60FPS/1080p+ but I would imagine this would be exclusives only as publishers for cross platform titles would strive for sales rather than optimisation.

 

I would like to know if Microsoft managed to pull off "free" FSAA 2x again this time around with their new ESRAM cache as that could help even things out.

e.g. 1080p / 30FPS / 2xAA vs 1080p / 60FPS / no AA



#11 +FiB3R

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:17

Sony should penalise any developers that purposefully cripple their games. I don't give a ###### about your politics, I want games to be the best they can be, and I'm sure the people that spend years of hard work creating them do too.



#12 TheExperiment

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:59

I would like to know if Microsoft managed to pull off "free" FSAA 2x again this time around with their new ESRAM cache as that could help even things out.

e.g. 1080p / 30FPS / 2xAA vs 1080p / 60FPS / no AA

Considering things like FXAA made large strides into eliminating the performance problems with FSAA in general I'm not sure it's necessary anymore.



#13 +MikeChipshop

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 11:08

I just wish the release would hurry up and come. I'm not getting either console to early next year as i want them to be out in public and have a test play/look before i commit to my purchase.



#14 blerk

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 11:40

If the PS4 is better looking... I can live with it.. I will Exchange a slight graphics bump, for everything else I will get for $500 (who am I kidding, I will end up owning both. DO NOT TELL MY WIFE  :woot: )

 

Oh she'll find out. You just wait. 

 

However, you do seem like the target market for the Vita TV. Buy an XB1, prominently display it in the living room and tell your wife "I promise, this is the only console I have in here".

 

Meanwhile, you hide a PS4 in another room and hook up the Vita TV and use that to stream your PS4 games to your TV. And when your wife asks if the Vita TV is a console (if she ever sees that small thing... :rofl: ), you can truthfully say no :shiftyninja:. :innocent:  



#15 blerk

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 11:43

Sony should penalise any developers that purposefully cripple their games. I don't give a **** about your politics, I want games to be the best they can be, and I'm sure the people that spend years of hard work creating them do too.

Hmmm did anyone say they were going to cripple their games?

 

But I doubt 3rd party titles will look different simply because there will be a target that all teams have to meet - when the game looks *this* good, then devs stop, optimize if necessary, fix bugs, and worry about things other than graphics.