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DocM

Falcon 9 / Thaicom-6 commsat (mission thread)

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IsItPluggedIn,

hatred ain't moto to drive me :) i have interest in reusable vehicles for Space, but their design has no future because the're no room to reduce launch weight.

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So you dont believe in the design of their reuse solution.

 

Because they are trying this which is secondary to their launches and R&D, you believe they are going to fall over as a company and will not be able to fill their contracted flights? 

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IsItPluggedIn,

 

actually, it isn't matter of blind belief. it's been known for long time that most sane design for reusable stage is to use wings or wing-shaped body to land as aircraft. retro-propulsion makes no clear way to estimate extra fuel for performing such task.

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Every kilogram of wings etc. costs at least that much in payload capacity. Spaceplanes are cool looking, but very inefficient especially for cargo. That's why the Shuttle and Buran had such high costs and were cancelled. Sidesaddle launched they are also a safety problem.

As to F9R, lessee....

To weaken the opetation the flyback R&D would have to charge a massive new outlay that would short the launch program.

Problem - most all of the reusable hardware R&D is done and flying. Not many new costs to worry about other than concrete landing slabs.

* the F9 v1.1 was designed with reusability in mind with everything from redundant avionics, landing leg mounts and even an oversized helium tank for deploying the legs gas actuators in from the get-go.

* the final version of the legs is in late development, possibly being used in the Dragon flight next month, and landing tech development itself is now largely a software matter - when to do burns, how long, thrust levels etc. SpaceX has said this is ahead of schedule. This is born out by the Grasshopper program FAA permits calling for a 3 year program at McGregor. It's taken less than 2.

* the F9R/Grasshopper-2 vehicle is already built and in McGregor. Test flights start soon, first short hops followed by recovery tests at SpacePort America.

* they now have well over 3,400 employees and are still hiring, but only 25 people are in the Grasshopper program. That's 0.00735% of their workforce. In business they call such a focussed, aggressive R&D group a Tiger Team. SpaceX got it from the auto industry where such teams are common.

So, where will these new, crippling outlays come from?

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Every kilogram of wings etc. costs at least that much in payload capacity. Spaceplanes are cool looking, but very inefficient especially for cargo. That's why the Shuttle and Buran had such high costs and were cancelled. Sidesaddle launched they are also a safety problem.

DocM, yes -- you're correct, but each kilogram of extra fuel sings even worse song: it's not top secret that plane design is capable to use passive flight thanks to aerodynamics. for SpX's design, aerodynamics becomes a very rival because drag can ruin Isp into bottoms + thrust is unstable too. here is proposition of winged design  http://mdb.cast.ru/mdb/4-2001/mas/brb/

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IsItPluggedIn,

 

actually, it isn't matter of blind belief. it's been known for long time that most sane design for reusable stage is to use wings or wing-shaped body to land as aircraft. retro-propulsion makes no clear way to estimate extra fuel for performing such task.

 

Ok, so you have an issue with the design that they are using. Which the Technical engineers at Space X have come up with and are trying to implement.

 

If they succeed with this design, is it still a bad thing? It may not be the best option but it is working. 

 

Until they have had enough tests and have combed through the Data they/we will not know if it is a failure. Until then it is currently the only design which is being flown which is trying to solve this issue. Thus the best. Until somebody else devs/build/test. Then your argument is moot. It may not be the best design but it the only working one.

 

Since you are interested in reusable stages I would believe that you would be happy to see them succeed or fail to prove/disprove the design, if they disprove it, it will help the rest of the companies to not use this design in the future.

 

This will help your Russian Friends when they build their new rockets. At least then they wont look at this design.

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IsItPluggedIn,

 

well, seems reasonable to take a break until upcoming tests shall get executed ;)

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:rofl:

Baikal isn't a booster but a reusable upper stage. It launches on an Angara 1st stage, which are expendable. To even launch a decent payload it needs an Angara then up to 4 Baikals act as an upper stage. The Baikal also has the extra added mass of RD-33 jet landing engines reducing payload.

It also has been in mothballs for 13 years and isn't likely to be tested until after 2020 if ever.

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Back ON TOPIC -

Full launch webcast (~52 min)

Presser

Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida ? Today, Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) successfully launched the THAICOM 6 satellite for leading Asian satellite operator THAICOM. Falcon 9 delivered THAICOM 6 to its targeted 295 x 90,000 km geosynchronous transfer orbit at 22.5 degrees inclination. The Falcon 9 launch vehicle performed as expected, meeting 100% of mission objectives.

Falcon 9 lifted off from Space Launch Complex 40 (SLC-40) at 5:06 PM Eastern Time. Approximately 184 seconds into flight, Falcon 9?s second-stage Merlin vacuum engine ignited to begin a five minute, 35 second burn that delivered the THAICOM 6 satellite into its parking orbit. Eighteen minutes after injection into the parking orbit, the second stage engine relit for just over one minute to carry the THAICOM 6 satellite to its final geostationary transfer orbit. The restart of the Falcon 9 second stage is a requirement for all geostationary transfer missions.

?Today?s successful launch of the THAICOM 6 satellite marks the eighth successful flight in a row for Falcon 9,? said Gwynne Shotwell, President of SpaceX. ?SpaceX greatly appreciates THAICOM?s support throughout this campaign and we look forward to a busy launch schedule in 2014.?

The THAICOM 6 mission marks Falcon 9?s second flight to a geosynchronous transfer orbit and begins a regular cadence of launches planned for SpaceX in 2014. SpaceX has nearly 50 launches on manifest, of which over 60% are for commercial customers.

This launch also marks the third of three qualification flights needed to certify the Falcon 9 to fly missions under the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program. Once Falcon 9 is certified, SpaceX will be eligible to compete to launch national security satellites for the U.S. Air Force.

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Congrats to the guys at SpaceX! And to folks here, please stop feeding the troll. ;)

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Hey Doc, Any news on the first stage?

 

I wonder if this includes the recovery of the first stage.

The Falcon 9 launch vehicle performed as expected, meeting 100% of mission objectives.

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No at-sea landing attempt, or announcements, but very likely high altitude maneuvers like SES-8 to practice reorienting for a stage re-entry. Some images had hints of thruster fire, plus when the first stage shut down they called "MECO-1", which hints at a first stage re-start followed by a MECO-2 etc. - the re-entry burns. They usually don't enumerate them unless there's more than one.

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Success pays off!

 

 

 

Orbital, SpaceX gain repeat customer with Thaicom
BY STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW

Posted: May 4, 2014
spacer.gif

Replicating a teaming arrangement that achieved success in the January launch of the Thaicom 6 communications craft, the Bangkok-based telecom operator says it will select Orbital Sciences Corp. and SpaceX to build and launch another television broadcasting satellite.

 

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n1405/04thaicom8/#.U2cyc_l_tUA

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Yes, it does. There are a couple of other big satellite deals pending as well - including a large constellation.

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