Dad Calls Cops on Son to Teach Him a Lesson, Cops Shoot Son Dead

[bradsday]

Its not as strong when it comes to shooting through it but its just as strong as in holding up to wear as older vesicles.. 

 

You are contradicting yourself - is it as strong or stronger or not.  Either way, even from the reference you provided, no handgun, shotgun, or AR-15 can reliably penetrate a big block truck engine block.  Even further, the policemen in this instance never had an opportunity to set up a shot - even if they did have a weapon capable of doing so.  The poor kid brought it upon himself.  It's sad - but it is also true.

[KingCracker]

You are contradicting yourself - is it as strong or stronger or not.  Either way, even from the reference you provided, no handgun, shotgun, or AR-15 can reliably penetrate a big block truck engine block.  Even further, the policeman in this instance never had an opportunity to set up a shot - even if they did have a weapon capable of doing so.  The poor kid brought it upon himself.  It's sad - but it is also true.

No im not, im saying theres differences in meaning of being strong. Aluminum isn't as strong as other metals, the reason why they use it because it holds up just as well as older engines. 

 

Also if you are saying that they never had the opportunity to never set up a shot then why did they even take the shot. Shooting wildly isn't good, they could of hit an innocent person.  

[Crimson Rain]

No sympathy for smokers or idiots raging cause father didn't buy cigs.

 

More over trying to ram police vehicles and etc.

[bradsday]

No im not, im saying theres differences in meaning of being strong. Aluminum isn't as strong as other metals, the reason why they use it because it holds up just as well as older engines. 

 

Also if you are saying that they never had the opportunity to never set up a shot then why did they even take the shot. Shooting wildly isn't good, they could of hit an innocent person.  

 

Strong is strong.  Aluminum is a very strong material.  No matter - go back and read what you referenced.  No readily available weapon was going to reliably penetrate the engine block and cylinders.

 

The police were not shooting wildly - six shots fired - into a moving vehicle that was literally attacking them - and two hit the intended target - thus incapacitating the target and neutralizing the threat.  I would call that some pretty damned fine shooting by any measure.

[KingCracker]

Strong is strong.  Aluminum is a very strong material.  No matter - go back and read what you referenced.  No readily available weapon was going to reliably penetrate the engine block and cylinders.

 

The police were not shooting wildly - six shots fired - into a moving vehicle that was literally attacking them - and two hit the intended target - thus incapacitating the target and neutralizing the threat.  I would call that some pretty damned fine shooting by any measure.

If you read what I posted they stated that, that test doesn't mean to say ALL ENGINES will perform the same way. And they used an older style engine not aluminum. Aluminum is not as strong of a metal compared to iron.  

 

How do you know the guy was attacking them? Do you have the footage to prove this? The dashcam footage i've seen shows no evidence of him trying to run them over while the shots were being fired. 

 

If you do have footage of that let me see it. 

[123456789A]

The cop had to stop the guy from continuing to use the vehicle as a deadly weapon. I wouldn't sit there doing physics calculations in my head and shooting at the engine and hoping I hit it in the right place.

[KingCracker]

The cop had to stop the guy from continuing to use the vehicle as a deadly weapon. I wouldn't sit there doing physics calculations in my head and shooting at the engine and hoping I hit it in the right place.

The hood is a bigger target then a person.

[123456789A]

The hood is a bigger target then a person.

 

Yeah but the engine isn't the whole hood. He might end up shooting the wiper fluid.

[KingCracker]

Yeah but the engine isn't the whole hood. He might end up shooting the wiper fluid.

Lol.

[FloatingFatMan]

You keep referring to "any other country" but the comparison you are trying to make is between the United States and Europe.  Anywhere in the Middle East, Africa, South America, and most of Asia, he would have been killed just as quick - if not a lot quicker.  He was attempting to use his truck as a deadly weapon - the police officers had a right to defend themselves and to protect their lives.

 

I would also argue that American police officers are anything but cowards - America, as you well know, can be a very dangerous place.  A policeman never knows what he will be faced with on any given day - for no more than a civil servant salary they put their lives on the line every day.

 

So do British cops in some areas of the country.  They still don't feel the need to kill the suspects willy nilly.

[spenser.d]

Yeah but the engine isn't the whole hood. He might end up shooting the wiper fluid.

And that probably would've been enough to get the idiot to stop.

[KingCracker]

The thing I don't understand is why the hell would this kid (I say kid because hes a lot younger than me) run from the police. There was no mention of him having a long criminal record that would send him away to prison. He would of got a slap on the wrist, especially since it was his dads truck so i'm sure he wouldn't have pressed charges. 

[bradsday]

So do British cops in some areas of the country.  They still don't feel the need to kill the suspects willy nilly.

 

Most cops in the UK are not faced with criminals as voracious, as violent, or as heavily armed.  I am not talking about your average penny-ante street thug - I am talking gangs with direct ties to Mexican drug cartels carrying AK-47s.  It is simply not an apples to apples comparison.  I am not detracting from what British policemen contribute - or their bravery - but the countries are vastly different.

[FloatingFatMan]

but the countries are vastly different.

 

On that, there can be no argument. That fundamental difference is a strong belief that a human life, no matter their level of criminality, is worth infinitely more than replaceable property.  Our cops only shoot to kill when there's no other way to stop a suspect from harming innocents.

[Hum]

I reckon Dad learned a lesson.

[Phouchg]

The lesson was: if a man (!) is determined to achieve an early grave and is denied a pack of smokes, other ways, often more effective, will soon be found.

[Praetor]

why the ###### this kid rammed a police car in first place? if i saw a police car chasing me i wouldn't ram it, run from it, etc... this isn't the whole story, i'm afraid.

 

Still sad story for all the parties involved in this.

[bradsday]

That fundamental difference is a strong belief that a human life, no matter their level of criminality, is worth infinitely more than replaceable property.  Our cops only shoot to kill when there's no other way to stop a suspect from harming innocents.

 

That is an unfair and inaccurate assertion.  The police in America place as much value on the preservation of human life as police anywhere.  They pursued the perpetrator to ensure he did not cause harm to the citizenry through his deliberate, reckless, and violent actions.  It is amazing that he did not kill anyone driving at high speed through that red light.  His vehicle was fired upon when he used it as a deadly weapon to assault the dismounting officers - they reacted to save their own lives.

 

The number of people killed by police officers each year in America is 400 on average.  There were over 600 murders in Chicago alone last year.  Police are continually placed in life-or-death scenarios where they must react in a split second to save their own or the life of others.  Most do this with pride and distinction.

 

Again, American law enforcement to British law enforcement is not an apples to apples comparison.  British police are simply not faced with the same level or voracious, violent, armed criminality.  Most British police are unarmed for a reason - there is no need for them to be.  In America, every policeman is fully armed, as are most security guards, for the same reason - they absolutely need to be.

[Sandor]

smoking. lol.

 

lesson learned.

[FloatingFatMan]

That is an unfair and inaccurate assertion.  The police in America place as much value on the preservation of human life as police anywhere.  They pursued the perpetrator to ensure he did not cause harm to the citizenry through his deliberate, reckless, and violent actions.  It is amazing that he did not kill anyone driving at high speed through that red light.  His vehicle was fired upon when he used it as a deadly weapon to assault the dismounting officers - they reacted to save their own lives.

 

The number of people killed by police officers each year in America is 400 on average.  There were over 600 murders in Chicago alone last year.  Police are continually placed in life-or-death scenarios where they must react in a split second to save their own or the life of others.  Most do this with pride and distinction.

 

Again, American law enforcement to British law enforcement is not an apples to apples comparison.  British police are simply not faced with the same level or voracious, violent, armed criminality.  Most British police are unarmed for a reason - there is no need for them to be.  In America, every policeman is fully armed, as are most security guards, for the same reason - they absolutely need to be.

 

Sure, your cops have to deal with more frequent violent crime, but that doesn't mean ours don't.  Anyway, mine was not really a comment on the police actions in this case; which given the evidence presented, were probably appropriate for American police training.  

 

Our cops just aren't trained to deal with incidents the same way, even though we DO have armed response units, an equivalent to your SWAT teams, just better.  

 

Given the same situation, our cops would have backed off the street pursuit and picked him up later.  If that weren't possible, they'd have used what you call "spike strips" to disable the truck and then blocked him in.  Once the truck was stopped, no guns would be necessary as he wasn't armed.

 

In cases where a police shooting happens, they don't just spray and pray as US cops seem to frequently do (Source: Every single damned shooting incident on the news in the last few years), the shooting is done by a small number of armed officers, possibly even a stationed marksman, and minimal rounds are fired. They will also shoot to disable if possible, because they're ALL expert shots that have to re-certify regularly and spend a lot of time on the range; far in excess of the range time most US cops face.

[G_0]

I just watched the dashcam footage. It's pretty easy to see why the cops shot him. Ramming COP cars, tires and other things flying out of the truck towards pedestrians, almost hitting a ton of pedestrians, and tons more stuff. Of course they shot him.

[123456789A]

Our cops just aren't trained to deal with incidents the same way, even though we DO have armed response units, an equivalent to your SWAT teams, just better.  

 

I wouldn't say "better"

 

I mean, our transit cops, as in the people who make sure you're not chewing gum or playing loud radios on the subway, have an armed response team too. They even have a freaking tank. I can't see when they'd respond to some kid wearing his pants on the ground with a tank, but they have one. They also have a bomb squad and all that stuff, just on the transit police force.

[Memphis]

Most cops in the UK are not faced with criminals as voracious, as violent, or as heavily armed.  I am not talking about your average penny-ante street thug - I am talking gangs with direct ties to Mexican drug cartels carrying AK-47s.  It is simply not an apples to apples comparison.  I am not detracting from what British policemen contribute - or their bravery - but the countries are vastly different.

 

Go on, how many shootouts do american cops have with gangs with fully automatic assault rifles on Americas streets? Stop the hyperbole.

[DocM]

Fully automatic assault rifles not too many except along or near the Mexican border, but let me point out that many of the hunting rifles and shotguns involved in police shooting incidents put semi-auto military-style rifles to shame when it comes to lethality.

Example:

the AR-15 is usually a 5.56mm, derived from the .223 Remington farmers use to shoot vermin. Very similar ballistics.

Compare that to a .308, 30-06, or at close range a 12 guage shooting 00 buckshot (16 .30 lead balls), a .62 slug or .50 sabot.

Trust me, the 12 guage at less than 20 meters is deadly. I know.

[FlintyV]

I wouldn't say "better"

 

I mean, our transit cops, as in the people who make sure you're not chewing gum or playing loud radios on the subway, have an armed response team too. They even have a freaking tank. I can't see when they'd respond to some kid wearing his pants on the ground with a tank, but they have one. They also have a bomb squad and all that stuff, just on the transit police force.

 

And none of that is relevant.