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UPS for home?

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Posted

Hello,

I should have done this a long time ago but Im thinking of getting a UPS for my home as I have had my home lose power some times. Surge protector seems to be doing a good job but something else (that can hold to save files or if power loss is detected automatically hibernate)

Now, Ive donde some light research and Ive found some technologies in UPS:

Offline/standby
Line-interactive
Online/double-conversion

These can either be passive PFC or active PFC.

I understand that there is a difference between the worst tech and the best tech but also the price is not viable for a home (there is easy a 200 euros difference which Im not willing to spend).

What will this protect? A computer pulling up to 600W, a router, a modem, a switch, and a monitor. That initially. In a few months, it will problably also protect a microserver.

I dont want to invert much in this at all. So just something that will give the PC a short amount of time if Im present so I can turn it of or if it only has 5 minutes left in the UPS's battery, turn off the PC.

Thank you.

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Posted

APC. You'll probably want a second/separate one for the server though. Calculating what capacity to get is a bit tricky so if you want to ballpark it err on the higher side, better have a longer battery-time than you expected than not enough. It's not actually that expensive, my 1500VA/865W is $210, which is only ~140 Euros

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Posted

Hello,

APC. You'll probably want a second/separate one for the server though. Calculating what capacity to get is a bit tricky so if you want to ballpark it err on the higher side, better have a longer battery-time than you expected than not enough. It's not actually that expensive, my 1500VA/865W is $210, which is only ~140 Euros

Ill problably remove the UPS from the PC and move it to the microserver once I get it.

What is your model?

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Hello,
Ill problably remove the UPS from the PC and move it to the microserver once I get it.

What is your model?

 

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1500G

 

current usage with my desktop (not under load) and two monitors:

 

Hczw1sI.png

 

my experience has been that this is probably overkill for my actual usage, but that gives me a greater buffer zone I guess.

 

You should take a look at all their models here http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13

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Posted

There are also the CyberPower series:

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/intelligent-lcd-ups.html

Good alternative to the expense of APC. I have an APC at home and at work and I love em but they can be a bit expensive so we got some of these for the desktop PCs and they have been great in the 3 times they've been needed so far :)

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Posted

So you want a battery backup not a UPS?

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Posted

^ what do you think a UPS is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply
An uninterruptible power supply, also uninterruptible power source, UPS or battery/flywheel backup, is an electrical apparatus that provides emergency power to a load when the input power source

I have cyberpower 1350 and have been very happy with it..
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems.html

I don't currently have my microserver on ups, so my modem and pc stay on - but my VM router is off if loose power ;) I am thinking of pulling the trigger on this one for the microserver
http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-EC650LCD-Ecologic-390-Watts-Efficient/dp/B00DBAAJQ6/
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Posted

It comes up everytime someone mentions UPS when talking about battery backups.

UPS systems from what I've gathered over the past arguments on here basically runs all the time not only when there is a power failure. When the power does fail the system keeps on running (no switching to batteries as that micro .2 seconds is not good for some systems). If the power doesn't come back then generators kick in the continue charging the batteries which keep feeding the building. The "uninterruptable" portion comes from the fact it doesn't deliver power from the grid directly, only from it's batteries which are constantly charging via the grid or generator.

So let's just make it be known that we are talking about UPS devices here from APC or CyberPower which are Battery Backup devices. From here on, UPS shall refer to battery backups

-----

Back on topic now :p
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Posted

Hey this is what you want, I have this and its awesome. Some computer will pull MUCHO power when you turn on as the power supply takes in the full load and then cuts down while booting the system. Some UPS's handle the initial request of power not so well.

 

If you have a 800 or 1000 watt need it will suck in that much and some UPS's cant not handle the request even thought that say "I'm a 800 watt ups". Also you want to have it steady and pure and this model has GREAT ability of giving Pure SineWave output. This basically means you get no dips in power when the system request it.

 

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series.html

 

I use the 1500 PureSine Wave series at my house but take note of the NAME "PFC SineWave Series" get this model and choose the watts you need for home. The price is amazing for you getting a PureSineWave UPS. Here is a video explaining PureSine wave where the UPS gave a more steady connection then the guys house lines!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QlF5vJlXaA

 

 

The 1500 gives my server with 16TB, Yamaha audio receiver and Samsung 55 LED TV a up time of about 22 minutes. If I did not have the HDTV and the audio receiver on it would last about 45-60 minutes on the computer alone. The 1000 watt power supply computer really only uses about 100watts when running normal. This power supply has some cool LCD stats on the front but man when I turn on the computer from cold boot it draws all 1200+ watts for a second during bios post including the TV and Yamaha. 

 

I also like this model because during hurricane sandy I was able to MANUALLY turn off the power supply to use it for a emergency power for the laptop and cellphones as it also has USB only turning it on when I needed to charge devices and then shut it back off. I was without power for a week and this was very helpful.

 

Shop for a good price for the PureSineWave and you will be happy.

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Posted

Hello,

I enjoy the links you guys give me and such but if it was up to me, I would get the cheapest model. The problem is that Im not sure if it would be any good (or just be a expensive surge protector).

Like I said, my needs are simply to, when a power outage is detected, give it power for about 5-10 minutes (enought to save work if im in front of my pc) and once 3 minutes are left, command my PC to shutdown/hiberante/etc. I dont want anything that will hold me 15-30 minutes at all.

Having said that, should I got for the least expensive model? Im kinda lost as you can see when it comes to this :)

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Posted

Get something that handles the load you need. Simple as that.
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Posted

Hello,

Get something that handles the load you need. Simple as that.

Which would be 600W max...

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Check your PSU and see if it needs Pure sinvewave (PFC) or just normal. Most newer systems kinda wont work without it.

http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/ups-systems/pfc-sinewave-series/CP1350PFCLCD.html

That would cover you then in that case or if you prefer APC:

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=27

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=165

Select 600W from there and it will show you which ones can and for how long they can keep it running.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/product-series.cfm?txtSeriesID=743

There are some from Triplite also.

---------------
If your PSU needs PFC then when on a normal one aka STEPPED sinewave it will just shut down right away when power is lost.

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Posted

Hello,

I have a SeaSonic S12-600. It says "Active PFC"...

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Posted

Hello,

Saw the CP1350PFCLCD for

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Posted

They are heavy so shipping will always be up there but shouldn't be 100 Euro for the ones I listed. The cyberpower on Amazon shows like 20 to ship it so dunno why it's that much or where you are looking.

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Posted

I have not looked into it yet, as mentioned I don't have a ups on my microserver as of yet. But you have mentioned running esxi on your microserver you plan on getting. You keep mentioning auto shutdown, yeah the stuff from apc, cyberpower all do that on say linux or windows.

I am not sure how to do that with say the esxi host as of yet.. I would assume a windows/linux box connected to the ups so it could detect loss of power could send a cmd to the esxi host via ssh to shutdown. But I will look to see if esxi itself supports what ups via a usb connection.

quick qoogle finds this
http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1007036

So looks to be some apc powerchute, but seems the network option - network attached ups are normally quite a
bit more expensive ;)

edit2: Looks like cyberpower software the business edition works with esxi
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/management-software/ppbe.html?selectedTabId=resources

But again believe that only works with specific upses -- not the home/cheap ones ;)

The one I linked to on amazon here in the US was FREE shipping, and only like 55 dollars - that one would be more than enough juice for the microserver.

edit3: Ah looky here - someone has done all the leg work already.. But might have to choose a bit higher cost model ;) PFC line

http://www.tinkertry.com/configure-automated-shutdown-homelab-datacenter-15-minutes/
How to use a CyberPower UPS solution for proper automated shutdown of your VMware ESXi lab during power outages, including all VMs

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Posted

BudMan - with APC's higher end devices you can have one UPS and the other servers can connect to it via the network so that they'll get signal time too to shut down.

Dunno about ESXI but my Hyper-V VMs get their shutdown command from the host OS once the system has been on battery power for 10minutes or more. After they shut down the host starts to shut down as well.

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Exactly "higher end" agree with you - higher end also normally means higher cost ;)

There is support on esxi for like you say the higher end upses -- but if trying to keep cost to min, there also seem to be some ways to make it work. I found a 1000VA cyberpower PFC ups for like 110$ which would work with business software from cyberpower, they even have a virtual appliance to run that monitors the ups, etc.

But another budget way to do it is get the lower end ups, $55 that have more than enough juice for the microserver. But doesn't support the business version of the software.. So just use personal version of software, and run a script that ssh to your esxi box on loss of power.


/sbin/shutdown.sh && /sbin/poweroff

Is all that is required on esxi to shut down the vms and then poweroff the host. Should be simple enough to trigger from the PC running the personal software when the pc goes to shutdown. Simple local group policy to have a script ssh to the esxi host and kickoff the above command and then exit on pc shutdown.

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ESXi has a lot of solutions;

1) Use a VM to shutdown ESXi/server using remote management commands (dedicated would be more secure)

2) Use a system that integrates into ESXi directly

3) Write your own script for ESXi and make it a service

4) Create something using an arduino or whatnot to get the data from the UPS, if low battery or whatnot, use someway (HID keyboard for example) to tell the server to shutdown

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Posted

My UPS has been giving me grief lately (meaning it's not working) and I just had a powersurge earlier today.  Thanks for all the suggestions.  I just picked up a CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD from Amazon for $110.

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Posted

Hello,

I have not looked into it yet, as mentioned I don't have a ups on my microserver as of yet. But you have mentioned running esxi on your microserver you plan on getting. You keep mentioning auto shutdown, yeah the stuff from apc, cyberpower all do that on say linux or windows.

I am not sure how to do that with say the esxi host as of yet.. I would assume a windows/linux box connected to the ups so it could detect loss of power could send a cmd to the esxi host via ssh to shutdown. But I will look to see if esxi itself supports what ups via a usb connection.

quick qoogle finds this
http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1007036

So looks to be some apc powerchute, but seems the network option - network attached ups are normally quite a
bit more expensive ;)

edit2: Looks like cyberpower software the business edition works with esxi
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/products/management-software/ppbe.html?selectedTabId=resources

But again believe that only works with specific upses -- not the home/cheap ones ;)

The one I linked to on amazon here in the US was FREE shipping, and only like 55 dollars - that one would be more than enough juice for the microserver.

edit3: Ah looky here - someone has done all the leg work already.. But might have to choose a bit higher cost model ;) PFC line

http://www.tinkertry.com/configure-automated-shutdown-homelab-datacenter-15-minutes/
How to use a CyberPower UPS solution for proper automated shutdown of your VMware ESXi lab during power outages, including all VMs

 I will have to look those links up; You are right that I didnt think that I was actually going to shut down the VMs in ESXi instead of the actual machine running ESXi. A bit more complicated.
 

Exactly "higher end" agree with you - higher end also normally means higher cost ;)

There is support on esxi for like you say the higher end upses -- but if trying to keep cost to min, there also seem to be some ways to make it work. I found a 1000VA cyberpower PFC ups for like 110$ which would work with business software from cyberpower, they even have a virtual appliance to run that monitors the ups, etc.

But another budget way to do it is get the lower end ups, $55 that have more than enough juice for the microserver. But doesn't support the business version of the software.. So just use personal version of software, and run a script that ssh to your esxi box on loss of power.


/sbin/shutdown.sh && /sbin/poweroff

Is all that is required on esxi to shut down the vms and then poweroff the host. Should be simple enough to trigger from the PC running the personal software when the pc goes to shutdown. Simple local group policy to have a script ssh to the esxi host and kickoff the above command and then exit on pc shutdown.

How about this solution:
 

1) Use a VM to shutdown ESXi/server using remote management commands (dedicated would be more secure)


Looks simple enough?

I looked up all prices to get a idea using the Google Shopping page. And that is the cheapest avaliable...

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Posted

It is simple! If you did a dedicated VM, you could probably modify floppy-fw and have it running with 32MB RAM, just read in data from serial, check it against what it should be, if on backup then ssh into server and issue the safe shutdown commands. Job done!

 

Also, advice about getting a UPS: The most expensive part of it, is the batteries. Look on ebay, you can pick up various UPS's from there ranging from very cheap to very expensive, and check the details for battery info, new batteries/replaced within past 4 year = fine. If there's no batteries and you can source some cheaply, it might be worth you getting a 2nd hand UPS off ebay without batteries or with dead batteries (Not sure if you get paid to recycle SLA batteries or not).

I was very lucky when I got mine, I got a brand new GE digital energy 3KvA system with all brand-new batteries for

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Also, advice about getting a UPS: The most expensive part of it, is the batteries.

 

Very true. I just priced 4x12V cells for a SU3000 RMX93 unit, good panasonic cells..  it'd be about $415CDN for those cells (~$104 a piece after tax). So ensure you can find replacements as the SLAs will last 3-7 years depending on how often they are cycled/tested/activated due to an outage or brown out. Many companies replace after 4 years. better safe than sorry. I'd be looking at $49 for a battery for my apc-550 at the local battery supplier, or $56 for a whole new unit with battery and 2 yr warranty at costco. I can't get a decent surge protector for $7.

 

Pull the plug every few months and ensure its functional. everything beeps and cleanly power down before the batteries die. Check for battery swelling or leaking as well. Generally they open up/disconnect power if they sense a fault condition but its always good idea with anything using batteries to ensure they are in good condition.

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Well I just pulled the trigger on the EC650LCD, my microserver pulls like 55watts, I will also be connecting my raspberry pi to it, so nothing really pulling a lot of juice. I just don't see spending the $110 for the PFC 1000va model.. I don't need that much backup power. I have had killawatt meter on my n40l and it only pulls like 55watts.. This model prob give me close to 30 mins run time -- plenty of time to shutdown the vms and host ;)

I will just connect it to my already 24/7/365 ubuntu server vm via usb passthru and if loss of power just have that linux vm shutdown the other vms and host.

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Posted

Hello,

Ill review this thread as soon as I start thinking about it and can sit down and order it :)

Thank you for the advice from all ends.

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