A Moon of Saturn Has a Sea, Scientists Say

[Slugsie]

Optical illusions  :laugh:

 

An optical illusion is a fact about how our eyes perceive light, and how light behaves when transitioning from one medium to another or across thermal barriers.

[Kravex]

 

Thanks for that, that's exactly my point.

 

Working on the rather simple premise that living things are mainly 80% water, the other 20% of a living thing are a vast amount of chemicals and minerals, so when you look at the amount of mass left of Europa there probably isn't enough variation of mass left to make up the the rest of a living organism. Water is needed for life 'as we know it' but water isn't life itself.

 

The irony is there's probably too much water and not enough of the other components required for the building blocks of life.

[sc302 Veteran]

Observations are not facts? Really? Show me one observable thing that is not a fact.

Then the internet is all truth, we all observe the postings on the internet.

[Crisp]

Human stupidity has nothing to do with visual fact.

[Slugsie]

Then the internet is all truth, we all observe the postings on the internet.

 

When you observe a posting on the internet, it's is a fact that something was posted on the internet that you could observe. Just because something was posted doesn't make it true, but that is *was* posted is a fact. I can observe something floating, that doesn't make it a fact that all things float.

 

There is a subtlety involved.

[Mazhar]

Observations are not facts? Really? Show me one observable thing that is not a fact.

 

Universe is contracting and slowing.

[blerk]

Universe is contracting and slowing.

 

What? The scientific consensus thus far is that the observable universe is expanding and accelerating. 

[mudslag]

Thanks for that, that's exactly my point.

 

Working on the rather simple premise that living things are mainly 80% water, the other 20% of a living thing are a vast amount of chemicals and minerals, so when you look at the amount of mass left of Europa there probably isn't enough variation of mass left to make up the the rest of a living organism. Water is needed for life 'as we know it' but water isn't life itself.

 

The irony is there's probably too much water and not enough of the other components required for the building blocks of life.

 

 

 

What maybe needed for life on this planet does not in anyway equate the same needs for life on another body. We assume all life needs water based on our own examples here but again that doesnt equate the needs elsewhere. Going off of the assumption that life needs water, we are confident enough in saying that Europa has more then enough of a body of water to meet those needs. As for the chemical and mineral needs of life, we use ourselves as the example, that doesn't make it the rule. We may not know the exact amount of mass on Europa but we know there is a rocky body of some sort there, not including the constant bombardment of meteorites and comets throughout it's life. There isn't a reason to assume there isn't enough material of minerals and chemical components needed for life. I also don't see any reason that to much water will hinder such possible life. Again all we have is our own examples for life, but as far as we know that doesn't equate to being the rule. 

[Slugsie]

Universe is contracting and slowing.

 

If it was observed that the universe was contracting and slowing then that would be a fact. However all current scientific observations show the exact opposite. So that is neither an observation nor a fact. Try again.

[mudslag]

An optical illusion is a fact about how our eyes perceive light, and how light behaves when transitioning from one medium to another or across thermal barriers.

 

 

 

To be fair how we perceive with our eyes doesn't equate to what's actually happening. Perception isn't always reality. A magician that appears to make something disappear doesn't mean something actually disappeared. Someone having a hallucination doesn't equate that hallucination being real. 

[Setnom]

Universe is contracting and slowing.

 

Care to show some peer-reviewed scientific articles about that?

[Mazhar]

Care to show some peer-reviewed scientific articles about that?

 

I didn't mean that, I was answering to someone that earlier it was observed and accepted that the Universe is Contracting and slowing, but then scientists discovered almost opposite of it which shocked them that opposite to what they believed, Universe is actually expanding and getting faster than before.

[FloatingFatMan]

I didn't mean that, I was answering to someone that earlier it was observed and accepted that the Universe is Contracting and slowing, but then scientists discovered almost opposite of it which shocked them that opposite to what they believed, Universe is actually expanding and getting faster than before.

 

Liar. You're just backtracking because you realised you're wrong.  Just like you usually are.

[madd-hatter]

horrible movie.

I thought it was great.

[Mazhar]

Liar. You're just backtracking because you realised you're wrong.  Just like you usually are.

 

Mate you go back to thread and read my conversation with Slugsie. I was answering to his below post to which he has already replied to:

 

 

Observations are not facts? Really? Show me one observable thing that is not a fact.

 

Then I said:

 

(One observable thing that is not a fact is that) Universe is contracting and slowing.

[FloatingFatMan]

You said it as a statement of fact. Your statement was wrong, now you're trying to backpedal.

 

Nothing new there.

[Krome]

Evolution is not a myth.  It is science.  Observing is part of learning.  Learning leads people to draw different conclusions.  Eventually with enough studies, it will yield an answer.  Observation itself cannot be concluded as facts.  Observations is an action.  The only fact from it is, an action was taken.  You have one skewed view of science.

There's is a different thread to discuss about the myth of evolution. You really need to know that observations are not facts.

 

[Mazhar]

You said it as a statement of fact. Your statement was wrong, now you're trying to backpedal.

 

Nothing new there.

 

You read it out-of-context as you do read other things as far as I have seen you before. But don't worry mate, keep trying you will know one day. BTW didn't you read my last post I have already clarified by quoting posts and still you keep saying what you are saying? Please just be honest.

[Kravex]

I also don't see any reason that to much water will hinder such possible life.

 

That's because I didn't say that, I said " too much water and not enough of the other components..." So you won't see it when you take it out of context.

 

 

Again all we have is our own examples for life, but as far as we know that doesn't equate to being the rule. 

 

But that's the point of this discussion, one in which we are saying that water is needed for life, hence the relevance of the title 'A moon of Saturn has a sea, Scientists say'.

 

 

There isn't a reason to assume there isn't enough material of minerals and chemical components needed for life.

 

Exactly, so also there isn't a reason to assume there is enough material of minerals and chemical components needed for life, we're all just making assumptions, none of us has any concrete facts. Heat and light are two other actors needed for most 'life as we know it' with our Earth being in the Goldilocks region and these other bodies being a lot further away.

 

In the end when scientist's say "there may be water at X" it's the media who interpret that as "there may be life at X".

[FloatingFatMan]

^ The media -always- does that sort of thing. Takes something a scientist says and extrapolates it into something completely different.

 

However, that said, the presence of water -does- increase the probabilities of some forms of life an appreciable amount.

[Crisp]

I didn't mean that, I was answering to someone that earlier it was observed and accepted that the Universe is Contracting and slowing, but then scientists discovered almost opposite of it which shocked them that opposite to what they believed, Universe is actually expanding and getting faster than before.

 

Theory based on visual evidence isn't a fact.

[mudslag]

That's because I didn't say that, I said " too much water and not enough of the other components..." So you won't see it when you take it out of context.

 

 

 

Ok, how do you know there isn't enough "other components"? 

 

 

 

 

But that's the point of this discussion, one in which we are saying that water is needed for life, hence the relevance of the title 'A moon of Saturn has a sea, Scientists say'.

 

 

 

Im just making a simple point as well. We can only use ourselves as an example, we have to be prepared to look beyond our own understanding or we might just miss an example of life right before our eyes. 

 

 

 

Exactly, so also there isn't a reason to assume there is enough material of minerals and chemical components needed for life, we're all just making assumptions, none of us has any concrete facts. Heat and light are two other actors needed for most 'life as we know it' with our Earth being in the Goldilocks region and these other bodies being a lot further away.

 

In the end when scientist's say "there may be water at X" it's the media who interpret that as "there may be life at X".

 

At this point it's all assumptions, but we also have to assume our assumptions could be way off and need to think outside of the box that is the examples of life on Earth. Based on what we know, a lot of the needed factors for life on Earth are at present evidence, also on Europa. I agree the media takes the ball and run but in terms of Europa, it is the closest possibility at present. 

[watkinsx2]

To all the people who question why we should be sending probes to places like this (and who probably think space exploration in general is a waste of time and money). These two video's are the best explanation why:

 

 

[Slugsie]

You read it out-of-context as you do read other things as far as I have seen you before. But don't worry mate, keep trying you will know one day. BTW didn't you read my last post I have already clarified by quoting posts and still you keep saying what you are saying? Please just be honest.

 

Sorry, but you made a statement that was factually wrong. You didn't give it a context, you didn't say 'It was once believed that...', you just made a statement that was factually wrong. 

[Kravex]

 

Ok, how do you know there isn't enough "other components"? 

 

...

 

At this point it's all assumptions...

 

I can't make assumptions but you will,

 

Classic :D

 

You're trying to argue against my guess work with your guess work, all my comments are just my opinion I wanted to add to this discussion, why are you getting irate about it? If you don't like my opinion please ignore it as I'm not trying to quote any facts that need correcting.