Defcon Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I couldn't care less about a new start menu, hybrid UI, snap, virtual desktops etc. That's window dressing, important of course, but nowhere big enough for a major Windows release, let alone one that skips version numbers. So what's under the hood. 8 was a *huge* release, contrary to what some posters like you to believe, it wasn't just 7 witt Metro. The new kernel, new bootloader, unified account, WinRT, all were big features. So what's new in Windows 10? That's what I really want to know. goretsky 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwizard88 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm curious about this as well. There's also a line going around about how the app store is "unified" now. How is that different than the "unified" 8.1 apps, and does this mean that SL apps for WP7/8 will run on Windows 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melfster Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I couldn't care less about a new start menu, hybrid UI, snap, virtual desktops etc. That's window dressing, important of course, but nowhere big enough for a major Windows release, let alone one that skips version numbers. So what's under the hood. 8 was a *huge* release, contrary to what some posters like you to believe, it wasn't just 7 witt Metro. The new kernel, new bootloader, unified account, WinRT, all were big features. So what's new in Windows 10? That's what I really want to know. It definitely is huge release. Did you not see the Continuum part of the presentation. But I think the biggest thing is they announced there will be one Windows 10 will work on 4 inch devices all the way up to huge screens. So that means no more Windows Phone. Windows 10 is next version of windows phone. Windows 10 is like Windows Vista to Windows 7 except maybe bigger change. I am cautiously optimistic. But as they say proof is in the pudding. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironman273 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 It's 1.9 better. DConnell 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defcon Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 A unified Windows is a big deal. My guess is they did the same kind of work as was done for Server 2012 (and WinCE) and Windows 10 is now fully componentized, so it can dynamically be built for different device form factors and inputs, and hopefully these parts can load/unload dynamically to reduce runtime footprint. I also want Win32 to be completely relegated to a legacy API, possibly running in a different layer, with most of the OS mobing to WinRT. But that would be a truly huge change and one I'm not sure MS wants to make. What else? Fix the WinSxs mess. Start exposing all the capabilities of your OS in the UI - e.g. smart junction points, reparse points, automatic memory mapped temp files if theres a lot of memory, data dedup across the file system, bring back proper image backup, make a better search UI etc. And most importantly, use stuff from MSR instead of letting it languish. So many wonderful projects there. DConnell and taim 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio384 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Windows 10 is a big release too, and we've only seen very little of it up till now. Continuum is a major thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted October 1, 2014 Global Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm curious about this as well. There's also a line going around about how the app store is "unified" now. How is that different than the "unified" 8.1 apps, and does this mean that SL apps for WP7/8 will run on Windows 10? Not really, I don't expect older WP7 apps to work, universal apps are different, and use different APIs than the old Silverlight apps in WP7. Now for WP8.0, maybe or maybe not? We'll have to wait and see if they decide to emulate older apps that aren't "universal" or maybe just not show them in the Windows store if you're on a device that won't run them. The store will still be one store but if I'm on my x86 desktop then I'll probably not see any phone or tablet apps that don't support x86 and are the older Silverlight apps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwizard88 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Not really, I don't expect older WP7 apps to work, universal apps are different, and use different APIs than the old Silverlight apps in WP7. Now for WP8.0, maybe or maybe not? We'll have to wait and see if they decide to emulate older apps that aren't "universal" or maybe just not show them in the Windows store if you're on a device that won't run them. The store will still be one store but if I'm on my x86 desktop then I'll probably not see any phone or tablet apps that don't support x86 and are the older Silverlight apps. The thing is I can take a WP7.0 app, and keep upgrading it to 7.1, 8.0, and now 8.1, and have it still work. So unless MS says that WP apps don't work on large screen devices, MS is going to have to have a WP version that has the emulation layer for SL apps, or bake the SL runtime into Windows, making WP7 apps work on Windows 10, in a fixed (small) window mode. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+John Teacake MVC Posted October 1, 2014 MVC Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah its an interesting take, I love reading about the Technical under the hood stuff rather than the Whats appealing to users. Something that is alot more freely available with say the Linux Kernel. A new TCP Congestion Mechanism, File System Optimizations, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloatingFatMan Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'll say one thing about all this unification of the OS... If Windows 10 isn't installable on WP8 devices, MS are gonna get lynched by the press... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 1995 just called and wanted its 260-chars path limits and the swapfest caused by file cache having priority over application memory (despite SSDs next to taking over the market) back :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted October 2, 2014 Veteran Share Posted October 2, 2014 Well, what's been found so far: 1) ARM 64 support 2) Support for installing apps on non-system volumes (and there are even APIs for installing them, adding volumes, moving apps between volumes, etc). 3) A massive number of new APIs. Including some very cool stuff (and lots that seem to be to enable Office as a WinRT app). 4) A ton of "common core" work (which will affect phone and Xbox more than anything). 5) SoftRestart - reboot without reinitializing firmware (currently a server thing I think) 6) Modern/Store apps in the desktop shell (not an entirely trivial undertaking). 7) A thousand things that aren't in the preview or haven't been discovered yet... the swapfest caused by file cache having priority over application memory (despite SSDs next to taking over the market) back :( Uhh, what? That actually isn't a problem even slightly... FiB3R 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted October 2, 2014 Veteran Share Posted October 2, 2014 What else? Fix the WinSxs mess. lol what? Start exposing all the capabilities of your OS in the UI - e.g. smart junction points, reparse points, You honestly have no idea how people use computers do you. automatic memory mapped temp files if theres a lot of memory, lol what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc302 Veteran Posted October 2, 2014 Veteran Share Posted October 2, 2014 They are working on the biggest complaint first, the ui. Next they will be working on features. The squeaky wheel always gets the oil first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notchinese Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 1995 just called and wanted its 260-chars path limits and the swapfest caused by file cache having priority over application memory (despite SSDs next to taking over the market) back :( ext4 and NTFS have the same file name length limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Uhh, what? That actually isn't a problem even slightly... Either you have SSDs everywhere or you do shutdowns pretty often. Next year I'm buying a 64gb machine just to turn this damn swap file permanently off. I leave a few gigabytes copying and when I come back visual studio and other ram-intensive applications are sluggishly unusable and I have to restart them. There's even a vs extension to avoid this but it doesn't work properly with vs2013 and later. ext4 and NTFS have the same file name length limits. I wasn't referring to the filesystem but to the shell that still has plenty of issues with longer paths. Same for the APIs: on win32 you have some workarounds (prepending special characters to the path) but on .NET you need to P/invoke the hell out of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notchinese Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Either you have SSDs everywhere or you do shutdowns pretty often. Next year I'm buying a 64gb machine just to turn this damn swap file permanently off. I leave a few gigabytes copying and when I come back visual studio and other ram-intensive applications are sluggishly unusable and I have to restart them. There's even a vs extension to avoid this but it doesn't work properly with vs2013 and later. I wasn't referring to the filesystem but to the shell that still has plenty of issues with longer paths. Same for the APIs: on win32 you have some workarounds (prepending special characters to the path) but on .NET you need to P/invoke the hell out of everything. Extension name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 Extension name? http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/2cfd12ae-f070-4182-9211-23d11aeecc35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George P Global Moderator Posted October 2, 2014 Global Moderator Share Posted October 2, 2014 Being able to install store apps to other locations is something users have been asking for since Windows 8 IIRC, good that they added that. For example, I often keep most of my files off of the system volume/partition and just keep the OS and core apps that I want on it (it's a SSD). All my music and videos and games etc are on different drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGHammer Posted October 2, 2014 Share Posted October 2, 2014 A unified Windows is a big deal. My guess is they did the same kind of work as was done for Server 2012 (and WinCE) and Windows 10 is now fully componentized, so it can dynamically be built for different device form factors and inputs, and hopefully these parts can load/unload dynamically to reduce runtime footprint. I also want Win32 to be completely relegated to a legacy API, possibly running in a different layer, with most of the OS mobing to WinRT. But that would be a truly huge change and one I'm not sure MS wants to make. What else? Fix the WinSxs mess. Start exposing all the capabilities of your OS in the UI - e.g. smart junction points, reparse points, automatic memory mapped temp files if theres a lot of memory, data dedup across the file system, bring back proper image backup, make a better search UI etc. And most importantly, use stuff from MSR instead of letting it languish. So many wonderful projects there. It's a monstrous deal - and it's an extension of a Microsoft plan going back over a decade. Have we forgotten (already) about Windows HPC Server's original reason for being? HPC Server was originally designed to take on a rather telling trend in computing outside of Windows, and it was a rather nasty wake-up call for Redmond - compute clusters. A compute cluster is basically RAID applied to computing - each unit in a compute cluster is treated like a component. Beowolf clusters (running BSD, UNIX, and Linux distributions) started making waves during the late 1990s - not only replacing mainframes, but taking on compute-heavy work from traditional supercomputers. And Microsoft was getting none of it - because Windows NT had no ability to use it. It also started as a Microsoft Research project - however, it also had front-line visibility within Microsoft's NT Group - specifically, Jim Alchin and Dave Cutler. (If you are familiar with NT at all, you get the significance of THOSE two names - Cutler and Alchin came from DEC - who was a major player in high-performance computing with VMS.) Out of that same plan would eventually come Azure - and we ALL know what is being done with it. Another part of the plan is (believe it or not) XBOX ONE's customized variant of Windows. Windows 10 pushes the same plan further along - but the plan DOES move forward. (Joe Balfiore DID point out that 10 would also come to consoles - either a successor to XBOX ONE or even a future update to the existing XBOX ONE.) Between specialized subprocessors and GPGPU-based computing, there are compute cycles being tappable, but underutilized - everywhere. Now, think about being able to tap into just SOME of that underutilized, if not UNutilized, potential - using software you already have or already know cold. And it won't matter where you are, or what you are using. That's the vision - and the idea of the execution is getting clearer and clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Live Veteran Posted October 6, 2014 Veteran Share Posted October 6, 2014 Either you have SSDs everywhere or you do shutdowns pretty often. Next year I'm buying a 64gb machine just to turn this damn swap file permanently off. I leave a few gigabytes copying and when I come back visual studio and other ram-intensive applications are sluggishly unusable and I have to restart them. There's even a vs extension to avoid this but it doesn't work properly with vs2013 and later. I do have SSDs but that's irrelevant. The post I was responding to was making incorrect claims about the way Windows behavior, re: the page file, disk cache, etc. The page file is used as a last resort, and never pre-empted by the disk cache. If you don't have enough physical memory then yes, paging will happen, because there's no alternative (other than making things error and crash). It's also very unlikely that restarting VS is faster for you than letting it get paged back in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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