The problems with a new build and misinformed boneheads

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

I never said it was a bad rig, just I would put my money elsewhere.  It's a pretty well known fact that Intel has much better performance and had better power management.  Those benchmarks posted above actually prove my point more. Seriously unless you are compiling or rendering its the only thing the AMD will do well compared to the Core i5.  Anything is not heavily core dependent will be quicker on the i5, including 95% of windows and application functions.  Love the fud here.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/697?vs=1261

 

Strange. Starcraft 2 (You know, one of the most CPU heavy games out there) runs just fine on ultra on my 8350..

 

Go read some Anand or Toms and just leave aside real life. :) You'll actually barely notice any difference when using them side to side on regular workloads. While AMD systems costs you less for it. Game differences on FPS are barely noticable, mostly 1-2fps.

 

Oh yeah, I already know your comeback already "but but the TDP" - the hell with it. My electricity bill went up ?3 a month. And I use 2 x 280x which eat most of it.

 

While I agree - this system for that kid is way too much to be honest. For him, even an i3 would have been good already. Maybe, just maybe, an i5.

[daorbed9]

Strange. Starcraft 2 (You know, one of the most CPU heavy games out there) runs just fine on ultra on my 8350..

 

Go read some Anand or Toms and just leave aside real life. :) You'll actually barely notice any difference when using them side to side on regular workloads. While AMD systems costs you less for it.

 

Oh yeah, I already know your comeback already "but but the TDP" - the hell with it. My electricity bill went up ?3 a month. And I use 2 x 280x which eat most of it.

 

Running slower doens't preclude it from running something well, and some games do run just as well on AMD.  Your argument is basically that you can't tell on the butt dyno so it doesn't matter.  You can get more for your money with Intel on the high end and you have a better selection of motherboards.  If you don't like the information that's fine but don't say in real life you can't tell.  That's just speculation and basically just your opinion with no basis.

[Praetor]

I love these posts.  Well you count for like .01% of users then.  Besides workstations and running vm's it's pretty hard to even exceed 8GB.

 

Unless you open 100 tabs in Chrome / Firefox..  :laugh:

but yeah, the average user, at the moment, won't need that much RAM, unless it's not a average user (gamer, creative, architecture or other professional area that requires lots of RAM).

 

OP: you didn't mention that he was using creative software because that changes everything: yes more RAM is preferable for that, as a fast disk for caching Photoshop, for example.

[Alwaysonacoffebreak]

Running slower doens't preclude it from running something well, and some games do run just as well on AMD.  Your argument is basically that you can't tell on the butt dyno so it doesn't matter.  You can get more for your money with Intel on the high end and you have a better selection of motherboards.  If you don't like the information that's fine but don't say in real life you can't tell.  That's just speculation and basically just your opinion with no basis.

 

Never said AMD is a better choice for the "high-end" and also I told You, regular work loads, you comprehend that Word? Regular work - surfing, video, games etc. If You notice a difference on those, come back to me and show me them please. I can't tell the difference on those on my 8350 or my laptop's i5.

 

Now, I'm done. Will not get into this again. Been there done that too many times. Just stick to what ever you like the most :)

[Dick Montage]

Besides workstations and running vm's it's pretty hard to even exceed 8GB.

 

Heavy photoshop and after effects work (which he said he will be doing) are memory hungry.

[xendrome]

I would do three (and only three) minor tweaks.

 

GTX750Ti (vice GTX750) - better availability, without either greater electric bill impact or a large increase in price.

 

Seriously, you might be talking a difference of 50 cents vs 1.00 dollar of electricity usage per year total.

[ndoggfromhell]

AMD chips are great if you also need a space heater.  Whatever you saved in processor price you're going to eat up in electricity over a year.  I would have went with the Core i5 over the AMD chip.  

 

Memory wise, the 8Gb is fine.  Just make sure he can add more later (2X4Gb instead of 4X2Gb)  

 

RAIDMAX case... ugh... i'm sure all the LED's make up for the probably poor air flow.  I've never liked a single case they've produced and when I shop for a new tower I almost always exclude them now.  

[T3X4S]

I love these posts too.

 

Lets see some statistics for your percentage of users.

C'mon adrynalyne - you have to realize you are a very very small % of people using that much RAM.  Most people dont use more than 3-4GB

 

[adrynalyne]

C'mon adrynalyne - you have to realize you are a very very small % of people using that much RAM.  Most people dont use more than 3-4GB

 

 

That wasn't the point.  The point was, he doesn't know said person to accurately judge that, and then he came up with a pure BS statistic.

 

I can accept very very small %.  That is not a tangible number.  But to say 0.1% and for him to go say what a person's usage is without knowing is unacceptable.

 

My original question was asking him how he knew.  He still did not answer it.

[T3X4S]

AMD chips are great if you also need a space heater.  Whatever you saved in processor price you're going to eat up in electricity over a year.  I would have went with the Core i5 over the AMD chip.  

 

Memory wise, the 8Gb is fine.  Just make sure he can add more later (2X4Gb instead of 4X2Gb)  

 

RAIDMAX case... ugh... i'm sure all the LED's make up for the probably poor air flow.  I've never liked a single case they've produced and when I shop for a new tower I almost always exclude them now.  

I realize electricity is an issue for people in other countries, but its not something people around here even think of, consider, care about.  And I would imagine the difference between the 2 might equate to .10 cents over a year.. think about it

As far as heat - you might want to check again - their temps are not high.

The case  - yeah its pretty ugly.

But I am getting some weird issues, stalls, strange things like USB stuff not getting recognized, but it was recognized last boot...

So I need to see if I can find the culprit... fun fun

[adrynalyne]

I realize electricity is an issue for people in other countries, but its not something people around here even think of, consider, care about.

As far as heat - you might want to check again - their temps are not high.

The case  - yeah its pretty ugly.

Yeah I think the only ones with serious heat issues are their 220w CPUs.

[daorbed9]

Never said AMD is a better choice for the "high-end" and also I told You, regular work loads, you comprehend that Word? Regular work - surfing, video, games etc. If You notice a difference on those, come back to me and show me them please. I can't tell the difference on those on my 8350 or my laptop's i5.

 

Now, I'm done. Will not get into this again. Been there done that too many times. Just stick to what ever you like the most :)

 

You make chippy shots, state your "opinion" and say you are out.  Interesting tactics, a bit immature.  It's a signs of modern times.  Everyone wants to say their peace but have no interest in listening (not saying change your mind).

[daorbed9]

That wasn't the point.  The point was, he doesn't know said person to accurately judge that, and then he came up with a pure BS statistic.

 

I can accept very very small %.  That is not a tangible number.  But to say 0.1% and for him to go say what a person's usage is without knowing is unacceptable.

 

My original question was asking him how he knew.  He still did not answer it.

 

Oh my statistic was a total exaggeration but it's not too off base.  I have 20 years of experience dealing with thousands of customers.  I can assure in my experience the percentage is very small outside corporate users that are provided everything from the IT dept.  And I doubt they are on these forums asking for advice.  It's just common sense.  Many PC users that are enthusiasts swear they need a lot more than they do and often don't understand what is truly involved.  I'm not saying you don't just that out of the small percentage of users needing that much ram (not hobbyist but people getting paid to do it, otherwise this is all pointless and you are just trying to make yourself happy and real knowledge isnt important) there is even a smaller percentage that are going to be on forums etc.

[T3X4S]

Wow - this thread is kinda taking a turn for the worse,  it wasnt even one of my anti-religion posts :rofl:

[adrynalyne]

Oh my statistic was a total exaggeration but it's not too off base.  I have 20 years of experience dealing with thousands of customers.  I can assure in my experience the percentage is very small outside corporate users that are provided everything from the IT dept.  And I doubt they are on these forums asking for advice.  It's just common sense.  Many PC users that are enthusiasts swear they need a lot more than they do and often don't understand what is truly involved.  I'm not saying you don't just that out of the small percentage of users needing that much ram (not hobbyist but people getting paid to do it, otherwise this is all pointless and you are just trying to make yourself happy and real knowledge isnt important) there is even a smaller percentage that are going to be on forums etc.

What does your experience have to do with target person in this thread, when you don't even know them or their habits?

 

That was my point this entire time.  I know not everyone needs it, but for those I say definitely don't need it?  I know them and know why.

[Kelxin]

Thank you!

 

Its people like you that keep MY business thriving.

 

[T3X4S]

Thank you!

 

Its people like you that keep MY business thriving.

What business ?  just curious

[simplezz]

I have to agree with others here. Get an i5 and use the integrated graphics. If he wants to go the gaming route later, it's easy enough to install a cheap discrete AMD card like the r9 270. Water cooler is completely unnecessary with the i5 unless he's planning on doing serious OC'ing. The i5 runs very cool and comes with built-in performance p-state which boosts defaults clocks on demanding workloads.

I'd also go with GNU/Linux as well to save money on Windows licence costs.

[daorbed9]

What does your experience have to do with target person in this thread, when you don't even know them or their habits?

 

That was my point this entire time.  I know not everyone needs it, but for those I say definitely don't need it?  I know them and know why.

 

Experience will tell you this.  Money for the most part buy less time waiting.  There is no perfect setup for a typical user.  There are bad options but generally once again it's about productivity and patience.  The point I made is that very few people would want a setup you speak of therefore it's a much safer bet to put his money where it really counts for a vast vast majority of users.  I guess you don't seem to understand what I'm trying to say.  There is just not any magic formula, its all about what makes the most sense.

[The Evil Overlord]

I never said it was a bad rig, just I would put my money elsewhere.  It's a pretty well known fact that Intel has much better performance and had better power management.  Those benchmarks posted above actually prove my point more. Seriously unless you are compiling or rendering its the only thing the AMD will do well compared to the Core i5.  Anything is not heavily core dependent will be quicker on the i5, including 95% of windows and application functions.  Love the fud here.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/697?vs=1261

I'll assume the fud reference wasn't directed at me as you partly agreed that the specs are irrelevant in the OP's case, had he have been building an extreme gaming rig I would have thrown in some other components for consideration.

[Aergan]

I think the son should be damn grateful to be getting a new computer at all and that if the word of a professional can't be taken, then he should ask his "friend" to build the system for less than $1000.

[Praetor]

Guys, OP have builded the whole rig by now (95% complete), so giving him tips of parts to buy is a waste; on the other hand, if he asked this before he builded the rig he could had better responses.

 

general rule is: demanding apps need more RAM and faster disks (SAS, SSD, FC, depending if it's business or consumer).

[sc302 Veteran]

I don't know, but I would have just made them get a prebuilt one by dell, hp, or lenovo.

 

You could have gotten an i5 or an i7 in the price range.  If they aren't gaming then they don't need gaming stuff, if they are gaming they can always upgrade it.

 

http://www.frys.com/product/8297516?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

http://www.frys.com/product/7852689?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

 

You could get better pricing if you used an online store or amazon in some cases.  I don't build stuff for anyone, not even my parents.  For my kids I might build one when it comes time, but only if I have easy access to it without driving.  Otherwise dell, hp, or lenovo can warranty and support it.  It has nothing to do with being lazy, it takes about an hour to physically build a system and about 3 hours to load on an os from scratch with drivers, updates, and whatever other software they want on it...that is 4 hours of pay that I would be missing out of my life or 4 hours of free time that I would miss with my family.  I can have a prebuilt computer up and running within an hour, including updates and removing preinstalled stuff.  Under an hour or 5 hours...I don't like anyone enough anymore to spend 5 hours with a computer. 

 

I gave a friend a surface, he tried to come back to me regarding an issue with the screen...I told him to go to the microsoft store, it is not my problem.

[T3X4S]

Well I got the bugs worked out, it is running like it should now.  Idle CPU temps are 35 degrees according to mobo BIOS.

I realize if I had more time, I could have sourced parts better, but I had to get 90% of the stuff @ one store as the one who was paying the bill didnt want to drag it out.


So, I'll run some benchmarks and see how it ranks.

I am worried about the 120GB SSD, right now it only has Windows 8.1 & Office 2013 installed with all the updates and that alone is 50GB ...

I still have to get the LED strips and crap (he wants to have all the lights inside and all of that stuff) 

I hope he does appreciate this, I know his hot Dr mom does :D

 

 

Thanks again for your comments

[daorbed9]

I think the son should be damn grateful to be getting a new computer at all and that if the word of a professional can't be taken, then he should ask his "friend" to build the system for less than $1000.

 

This is very true.  He really shouldn't even be complaining.  I have CEO's not wanting to spend that much on their own computer.

 

Well I got the bugs worked out, it is running like it should now.  Idle CPU temps are 35 degrees according to mobo BIOS.

I realize if I had more time, I could have sourced parts better, but I had to get 90% of the stuff @ one store as the one who was paying the bill didnt want to drag it out.

So, I'll run some benchmarks and see how it ranks.

I am worried about the 120GB SSD, right now it only has Windows 8.1 & Office 2013 installed with all the updates and that alone is 50GB ...

I still have to get the LED strips and crap (he wants to have all the lights inside and all of that stuff) 

I hope he does appreciate this, I know his hot Dr mom does :D

 

 

Thanks again for your comments

 

 

Yeah honestly the 120GB is the only thing I would have truly avoided.  The rest is a nice system regardless of where it stands.  I don't think anyone but experienced users should use a 120GB.  Normal users just don't get there's another drive in the system and they fill up the SSD even though the promise you they understand.