Apple And The Mac Faithful.....

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

silly_walk said:

@superfula: You did not say rarely, you said find one.

Are you reading these posts? I said rarely does a car manufacturer compare. Then I said to find one. And the ones you provided were sketchy at best "Well there was this one car, and it did this in the commercial. And the other car didn't do it"

Correct. On second reading I see that you said they "rarel" (your spelling) do, followed immediately by "car companies do not". Fine, you said rarely. But they do all the time, as the Kia commercials were pointed out to you. And before you say "that's only one", there are more. And at least when they do it, they are still comparing the SAME MODEL YEAR. Are YOU reading what I am posting, or are you proving yet again that Macs cannot be discussed unless you choose to ignore logic and fact.

I think you two are prolly just going to have to agree to disagree on that point

[Joel]

silly_walk said:

@superfula: You did not say rarely, you said find one.

Are you reading these posts? I said rarely does a car manufacturer compare. Then I said to find one. And the ones you provided were sketchy at best "Well there was this one car, and it did this in the commercial. And the other car didn't do it"

Correct. On second reading I see that you said they "rarel" (your spelling) do, followed immediately by "car companies do not". Fine, you said rarely. But they do all the time, as the Kia commercials were pointed out to you. And before you say "that's only one", there are more. And at least when they do it, they are still comparing the SAME MODEL YEAR. Are YOU reading what I am posting, or are you proving yet again that Macs cannot be discussed unless you choose to ignore logic and fact.

I think you two are prolly just going to have to agree to disagree on that point

I think I agree. IMO the switch ads are an embarrassment to Mac users. Just my opinion. Yours may differ. Let's all be happy. :D

[Wickedkitten Veteran]

silly_walk said:

@superfula: You did not say rarely, you said find one.

Are you reading these posts? I said rarely does a car manufacturer compare. Then I said to find one. And the ones you provided were sketchy at best "Well there was this one car, and it did this in the commercial. And the other car didn't do it"

Correct. On second reading I see that you said they "rarel" (your spelling) do, followed immediately by "car companies do not". Fine, you said rarely. But they do all the time, as the Kia commercials were pointed out to you. And before you say "that's only one", there are more. And at least when they do it, they are still comparing the SAME MODEL YEAR. Are YOU reading what I am posting, or are you proving yet again that Macs cannot be discussed unless you choose to ignore logic and fact.

I think you two are prolly just going to have to agree to disagree on that point

I think I agree. IMO the switch ads are an embarrassment to Mac users. Just my opinion. Yours may differ. Let's all be happy. :D

I'd actually agree with you on that. The first batch was the worse but they are getting better as time goes by.

Just have to remember they aren't aimed at existing mac users.

[frod]

well, i guess i'll add to the flame ;).

car companies compare their cars to others directly ALL the freaking time. i think within the 30 minutes i spent reading this post i actually heard the Hyundai commercial on tv that directly compares about 1012380123 things from their sedan with the toyota camrey (sp?). i believe the toyota hybrid car was directly compared in price to the honda hybrid when they first came out as well. the advertisement for that one new american want-to-be muscle car didn't state direct comparisons, but in the end they had two cars from the same class "step-away" from the "all-to-powerful" "muscle car". so i think your argument about car companies being different from computer companies in terms of advertising isn't really as valid as you think it is ;).

i still don't think you understand what that one guy is saying about comparing osx to winxp. he's not saying advertise comparisons to winxp for people who already own winxp computers. he's saying compare them so people who are about to buy a winxp box can see that osx is better. this way you're winning over people to macs and osx right before they go out and add more money to ms enterprises ;).

i think you just like to twist things so that you come out on top every time. unfortunately for you, the way you're twisting them doesn't make you look very intelligent.

all in all i think this thread does nothing really but justify the article that was posted on the main page. here you have a whole bunch of pc users saying goods and bads about osx and mac, and you have a few mac zealots flaming them for saying the very true bad things about macs.

oh and whoever posted that "i should be able to connect to a printer and use it without doing anything" well that doesn't really happen on any computer. sometimes it does but not very often. you still usually have to install the network printer drivers on your system. sometimes windows automates this but usually you have to do it manually because xp didn't come with the drivers. (i don't know how connecting to a printer works on macs).

anyways. if i had $3300 of extra extra money, i'd buy a powerbook just because i don't plan on gaming on my laptop that much anyways and it has some neat features and it's compact. i think mainly i'd get it because i could watch dvds in 16:9 and almost fill up the entire widescreen display top to bottom, heh. plus the new powerbooks come with dvdrs, that's pretty neat.

oh and i could still play warcraft3 on it, so i guess that's not too bad ;).

oops, i forgot to add this part:

someone talked about how companies compare their new video game consoles with older ones all the time, and that this was supposed to give valid reason to computer companies comparing their new os's with old ones? well, the thing, they video game companies are comparing their new consoles with whatever is NEWEST to the market. they're not comparing their ps2 to 8-bit nintendo and they're not comparing their xbox to atari (extreme examples yes, but same thing really). so basically mac trying to compare osx with win98 is like sony comparing their ps2 to a super nintendo. to the hardcore gaming fans, this type of advertisement is going to make them laugh. for the stupid parents looking to buy their kids a xmas gift, they would probably work. i don't think mac is really trying to win over hardcore computer people, but i think they should. it's not going to do anything but help their company i think.

Edited December 4, 2002 by frod

[Joel]

oops, i forgot to add this part:

someone talked about how companies compare their new video game consoles with older ones all the time, and that this was supposed to give valid reason to computer companies comparing their new os's with old ones? well, the thing, they video game companies are comparing their new consoles with whatever is NEWEST to the market. they're not comparing their ps2 to 8-bit nintendo and they're not comparing their xbox to atari (extreme examples yes, but same thing really). so basically mac trying to compare osx with win98 is like sony comparing their ps2 to a super nintendo. to the hardcore gaming fans, this type of advertisement is going to make them laugh. for the stupid parents looking to buy their kids a xmas gift, they would probably work. i don't think mac is really trying to win over hardcore computer people, but i think they should. it's not going to do anything but help their company i think.

Actually, I said what you said, not that they DO compare the old consoles to the new ones, just that it would be like what Apple is doing. Glad someone understood me, though. :D

[Chad]

well, i guess i'll add to the flame ;).

car companies compare their cars to others directly ALL the freaking time. i think within the 30 minutes i spent reading this post i actually heard the Hyundai commercial on tv that directly compares about 1012380123 things from their sedan with the toyota camrey (sp?). i believe the toyota hybrid car was directly compared in price to the honda hybrid when they first came out as well. the advertisement for that one new american want-to-be muscle car didn't state direct comparisons, but in the end they had two cars from the same class "step-away" from the "all-to-powerful" "muscle car". so i think your argument about car companies being different from computer companies in terms of advertising isn't really as valid as you think it is ;).

i still don't think you understand what that one guy is saying about comparing osx to winxp. he's not saying advertise comparisons to winxp for people who already own winxp computers. he's saying compare them so people who are about to buy a winxp box can see that osx is better. this way you're winning over people to macs and osx right before they go out and add more money to ms enterprises ;).

So because these two cars "step away" from the other, that's a direct comparison. What exactly are they comparing? That two cars can "step away" and one can't?

I know what he is saying. But like I said, why should Apple advertise winxp? Why on earth would you want to do that. When you DIRECTLY compare two OSs you put their pluses and minuses out there. Why woupld Apple say anything good about winxp. You honestly think that will get people to buy OSX more? Out of sight out of mind. You see the Mac, you hear about it. But they mention nothing of windowsxp, which gives OSX the edge because it's fresh in the mind. It's not Apple's fault M$ doesn't advertise winxp as much. Apple is there to advertise THEIR product to the right market...windows 98 users and users who are buying new. It's THEIR job to push THEIR product to them. It's M$s job to push winxp to the same market.

It's rediuclous you guys expect Apple to advertise winxp, or even mention it. Why give M$ free press time.

[frod]

heh there you go again. pick the one example where i actually say "it isn't a direct comparison" and try to make it sound like i did.

and why can't you, the apparent marketing genius, realize that apple wouldn't have to put the good sides of winxp into the advertisement? a statement such as "now sporting an average of 701723097213 days more uptime than windows xp machines" would be the smart thing to do marketing wise.

it is very important to state your competition in marketing, especially in the united states. we grow up in a world where we have to have the best thing on the market. by just stating your good sides and not stating your opponent, you're not assuring your viewer that your product is better than the rest. this also holds true with trying to compare your product to something that is outdated. sure, some stupid idiot is going to think your advertisement is great, but anyone actually looking around the market is going to realize that your opponent has something newer out and that you should be comparing your product to that and giving reasons that it is better.

take a look around. look at advertisements for almost anything. take pepsi for example. almost every single one of their commercials mentions coca cola in it, heh. coke doesn't have to do this because they have enough money and market share to do whatever they want, but direct comprison is one of the best methods of winning over new customers.

alright, now you can twist my words around however you want and reply to my post. maybe then you can give me more stuff to respond to and something else to do but sit here and laugh ;).

[JK1150]

superfula and all others

What I am trying to say is that:

A) No one else says their better than products that are five years old, everyone knows that already

B) Their target audience should be people who are buying a new PC and they wanna see which is better, OSX or XP and apple should prove to us that no, don't go out and buy a dell with XP, come buy a mac with OSX b/c it is better.

Just stop arguing, please. You know we are right, and u know u can't win. No i am not saying they should lists the goods and bads of XP and OSX, I am saying if they are so much better, they should do what they have been doing with their things about "Burns CDs, Burns Pentium 4s" etc. Not WE ARE BETTER THAN THIS OUTDATED OS SO HA!

[azazel-]

I was just stating an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I should be able to state my opinion anywhere and just hope people can respond in a mature manner without turning to insults.

you're a fat shaging one to talk considering the fact that bringing up what someone else said in another thread with your post that is essentially flamebait isn't exactly the height of maturity

I'm just trying to prove a point, thats all. stfu

First, Jago, quit crying already and grow up. I thought we'd finished this in IM, but I guess not. Nice way to drag up something that I thought was over nearly a week ago.

*deep breath*

Ok.

Actually, I bought a $1700 Dell Inspiron less than 6 months ago. I'm selling it tomorrow. I bought my ibook less than a month ago. I'm far from computer illiterate. I've been building PCs for myself, friends and people that paid me to do so for quite awhile now. I thought the switch ads were retarded. I thought Macs sucked. Until I went to a store and played with an iMac running OS X, and saw how it worked, and opened up an actual -unix- virtual terminal. Instant love. 'Nuff said.

On a side note...I took my ibook to work today, and for the first time, I was using it where it was seen by the general public. In all seriousness, the response was shocking. People that had never said a word or even gave two sh!ts about my Dell, were walking up and wanting to touch the ibook. Not mess with it, not even type or use the touchpad. Just touch the palmrests. People commenting "new mac, eh? nice". Things like that. And it went on all day long. It was just really surprising. 3 people said "I shoulda got a mac instead of my last blah blah blah". I'm not exaggerating or embelishing the story. Anways, just my $0.2.

[jago6498]

I was just stating an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. I should be able to state my opinion anywhere and just hope people can respond in a mature manner without turning to insults.

you're a fat shaging one to talk considering the fact that bringing up what someone else said in another thread with your post that is essentially flamebait isn't exactly the height of maturity

I'm just trying to prove a point, thats all. stfu

First, Jago, quit crying already and grow up. I thought we'd finished this in IM, but I guess not. Nice way to drag up something that I thought was over nearly a week ago.

*deep breath*

Ok.

Actually, I bought a $1700 Dell Inspiron less than 6 months ago. I'm selling it tomorrow. I bought my ibook less than a month ago. I'm far from computer illiterate. I've been building PCs for myself, friends and people that paid me to do so for quite awhile now. I thought the switch ads were retarded. I thought Macs sucked. Until I went to a store and played with an iMac running OS X, and saw how it worked, and opened up an actual -unix- virtual terminal. Instant love. 'Nuff said.

On a side note...I took my ibook to work today, and for the first time, I was using it where it was seen by the general public. In all seriousness, the response was shocking. People that had never said a word or even gave two sh!ts about my Dell, were walking up and wanting to touch the ibook. Not mess with it, not even type or use the touchpad. Just touch the palmrests. People commenting "new mac, eh? nice". Things like that. And it went on all day long. It was just really surprising. 3 people said "I shoulda got a mac instead of my last blah blah blah". I'm not exaggerating or embelishing the story. Anways, just my $0.2.

azazel-, you were never able prove that MY OPINION was false. You just responded with personal attacks. So obviously you have no proof to show that I was wrong.

[giantsnyy2002]

People... Please...

its a friggin computer

macs are good, i like them a lot. OSX has everything I want that XP doesnt have, and XP has everything i want that OSX doesnt have. PC's are cheaper, macs are more geared towards graphics professionals and idiots. Do I like my pc? Yes, i do. Would I like a mac? Yes, I would.

Are there downsides to having either type of system?

- Of course, but why care... Its just a system, both have good and bad sides

I think people really show their true age when they start fighting over which processor or which type of operating system is better.

so i will end it here:

Xerox invented the UI

Apple stole their idea

Microsoft stole apple's idea

therfore:

Apple Sucks

Microsoft Sucks

and...

Apple Rules

Microsoft Rules

[azazel-]

azazel-, you were never able prove that MY OPINION was false. You just responded with personal attacks. So obviously you have no proof to show that I was wrong.

The way your opinion was presented, the thread in which it was inserted, and the manner in which it was made was why I responded the way I did. It was nothing more than attention-seeking flamebait by an immature little troll. Like I said, I thought this was finished in IM when you didn't respond to my last one, but like a sniveling scolded child you must skulk up and start whining again at the first oppurtunity, in a thread that somewhat resembles the one you were crying about before. I'm tired of this. Drop it and move on. Until you openly brought it back up, I'd forgotten completely about it. I suggest you do the same, because this is getting really old.

[threetonesun]

On a side note...I took my ibook to work today, and for the first time, I was using it where it was seen by the general public. In all seriousness, the response was shocking. People that had never said a word or even gave two sh!ts about my Dell, were walking up and wanting to touch the ibook. Not mess with it, not even type or use the touchpad. Just touch the palmrests. People commenting "new mac, eh? nice". Things like that. And it went on all day long. It was just really surprising. 3 people said "I shoulda got a mac instead of my last blah blah blah". I'm not exaggerating or embelishing the story. Anways, just my $0.2.

Well, if you spent more money on a Windows laptop you could customize it and make it just as *cool* looking as any Apple computer. Obviously that's not the point though...the point is that people like shiny things.

Someone said earlier that people moving to Macs were fed up with their crappy PCs/cheap PCs don't cost that much less, etc, etc... The fact is you could put together a PC for the average person for a few hundred dollars ($400 is a good estimate) that would be as powerful and useful as they need it to be. These people clearly have no need to switch to Macs.

So who does, really? The market place is still decided by the Windows OS, you'll never find a workplace that relies on Mac only software. There's nothing you can do on a Mac you can't do in Windows (don't go naming specific programs, because you know there are alternatives).

My point is, there's still no need for Macs. I don't care who buys them or why they buy them, but there's no reason to defend them to the death.

[jago6498]

azazel-, you were never able prove that MY OPINION was false. You just responded with personal attacks. So obviously you have no proof to show that I was wrong.

The way your opinion was presented, the thread in which it was inserted, and the manner in which it was made was why I responded the way I did. It was nothing more than attention-seeking flamebait by an immature little troll. Like I said, I thought this was finished in IM when you didn't respond to my last one, but like a sniveling scolded child you must skulk up and start whining again at the first oppurtunity, in a thread that somewhat resembles the one you were crying about before. I'm tired of this. Drop it and move on. Until you openly brought it back up, I'd forgotten completely about it. I suggest you do the same, because this is getting really old.

Hmm? I did respond to you PM. you obviously didn't read it. I can still see that you are still not capable of having a discussion without turning to personal attacks. And like I stated before, the commet I made about "Let the flame war begin" was a JOKE (you do have a sense of humor, right?). I said that b/c eventually someone will start this into a flame war by stating something that is ignorant and doesn't have any proof to back up his/her comment.

[the evn show]

Thier operating system is so great that they get people stupid enough to pay all of this money for that computer. That computer doesn't cost that much to make they are just overcharging you for the software. But Apple is much different than Sony. With Sony you are paying more for crap. With Apple you actually get more out of your money overall. You do get something better for your money. But does that make it right for Apple to overcharge you for this computer because only they make it.

Apple HARDWARE offers quiet a bit for your dollar. I consistantly get about 5 hours of battery life, the screens are amazing, and the style of their products in unmatched. very few (if any) wintel products can compete in all of those areas. I have yet to see another student with a PC notebook run through a full day of classes with his/her notebook running all day without plugging in, nor have I seen any "desktop replacement" class notebooks in weighing 5 lbs or less with as many features as a powerbook.

For some people price will be a deciding factor; others are more concerned with quality and features - these are the same people who drink 30 year old scotch instead of 25, and wear prada shoes instead of nike.

If Apples computer is too overpriced where can I go to get it cheaper.

Gateway, dell, emachines... Apple is a PC maker (remember: Personal Computer?!), if you don't want to buy their hardware you have options. Apple is the only company producing Apple hardware in much the same way Ford is the only company producing the Focus. Any company is free to produce and build a PowerPC based computer, infact you could build a computer from scratch capable of running Mac OS (there was an article on slashdot a few months ago about this). Apple does NOT have a hardware monopoly.

From a software standpoint, which company with 90% of the home-computer OS market is repeatedly on trial for abusing it's monopoly position?

Microsoft doesn't make both the software and the hardware.

Making complimentary products has nothing to do with being a monopoly.

Now if Apple want's to charge more for their computers who can fight it. Just because you make a great product does not exclude you from being a monopoly.

If ford wanted to charge $999,999.00 for a mustang who could stop them? If Brioni wanted to charge $1.0e12 for a suit who could stop them? One of the values of a free-market economy is that companies are free to set prices for their goods and customers are free to decide to pay them or not. Who can fight Apple? YOU CAN: don't purchase hardware you can't afford or don't want to pay for.

You're confusing constitutionaly (in america) protected rights of business to control a product with being a monopoly. If Apple was the ONLY personal computer company on the market, and OS X was the only operating system then apple would be a monopoly. The current state of the world is much different. There are hundreads of OS's out there, and thousands of computer manufactures. A ppc + OS X is just one (small) combination. The fact that Apple will only allow it's OS to run on it's hardware is a business decision they have made (and it is very similar to the decision of microsoft not to allow it's OS to run on PPC based computers).

Whether apple is making a sound decision is up for debate, but the legality is not.

< I also have people comming up to touch/see my powerbook on the train, at school, in cafes, even when I'm sitting in the park. Strangers will come up for no reason other than to see my notebook. In that respect having a mac is a lot like driving a high-end car. >

[frod]

who wants to buy me a powerbook so i can get a new girlfriend? :D