675 replies to this topic 2 votes

[Zappa859]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 07 February 2012 - 16:47, said:

Calm down there, bud.

I did play WoW in the beginning days. I played the game for roughly 7 years as well. And when I hit 60 in Vanilla, there was plenty to do. I never said I expected it to be like WoW, but WoW did have more quest content at Vanilla 60, than this does, which is 0.
Nothing you have done in WoW, I haven't. I can bet you on that. (Except Firelands, and most cataclysm stuff, cause I quit after a month of that and never looked back.)
(If you need some sort of proof, http://us.battle.net...is/Roija/simple That was my second mage on my second account. You can look at the achievements if you want for the Vanilla ones. My first account with my original mage who I had from the beginning was banned due to using WoWGlider, a bot, which I used on a priest. Not ashamed to admit it, I didn't wanna do the ball breaking level to 60 again, as we all remember, that took FOREVERRR.)

I have been playing MMO's since EQ in the 90's, so, yeah, I have experience under my belt.

I don't need an achievement system, but it does give incentive to go do goofy things. It's called side-content, and it helps give a game longevity. I also said I am a "stubborn" Star Wars fan, and that is what I was referring to. Most of my friends agree the game is lacking and there isn't much to do, but they are "stubborn" Star Wars fans who don't mind it, because it is Star Wars. I am a big fan too, just not enough to pay $15 a month. Whereas, they can justify it just because of the brand name. I don't.

This game was in development longer than any other MMO to date. So, yes, my expectations were high, as most were. They could have sacrificed some voice acting for more content and quests.

Either way, you are getting mad at me for no reason, over a game. I already said I enjoyed it but it is lacking so I have no desire to play. That I will come back and, I know Bioware has a great track record. So it will be great. But you can't get mad or blame me for having slightly higher expectations, for the sheer fact of the length of development for the game, and following it since it was (publicly) announced back in 07/08.

[Amarok]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 07 February 2012 - 17:04, said:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patches/1.x

Here is the patch notes, notice months later when the second raid was releaced, it was nto out at launch, but came close to 6 months later. molten Core the first raid ,was not out at launch. Neither was Ony, the psudo raid as it only was 1 boss.

ALL of Teir 1 and 2 droped randomly from MC, and there were not graphics for T2, just placeholders. Go find the origional Warlock T2, if its green Snake heads, its not Origional T2, the snake heads were done a LOOONG WAY AFTER.

It blows that i do not have screens anymore of the plaguelands, as they were roaming with lvl 100 infernals that one shot you as Plaguelands both east and west, were cloased as they were still building it.

So none of that WoW has tons of crap to do, WoW has tons of crap to do because it has YEARS WORTH OF CONTENT ALREADY. Stupid people arguing that a new game doesnt have as much as a game with 4 expansions and 8 years under its belt.

Whoa whoa ease up. It's not that serious. When you first hit level 60 in WoW there was a lot of stuff to do. There might not have been huge raids, but there was a lot of stuff to do. You could keep questing, you could go PvP (there was no reward for it back then, but it was fun.), you could do the elite quests that you missed, you could go do dungeons and even the dungeons had variety. You could zerg them in a raid group for loot or if you wanted a challenge you could do them the way they were intended as 5-mans. Scholomance was just one instance, but it was HUGE. Now in an MMO a dungeon is 15-20 minutes in and out and doesn't compare. Ony and MC were the only raids at one point, but they had some weight to them in that it took people FOREVER to actually kill Ony, and it took people forever and a day to kill Rag. So even though it wasn't much content it lasted longer. Also T1 didn't have original models at first either.

But the point is that WoW had content, there was stuff to do. It might not have been the best stuff in the world, but there was stuff to do. SWTOR was a good game, I liked it, but my server died and there was nothing at all for me to do with no other people around.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Zappa859, on 07 February 2012 - 17:14, said:

development time means nothing, take a look at Duke Nukem. everquest came out at the middle of 99, not fully the 90's, but mine was lineage 2 in 03, so you got 4 years on me if you started same with everquest... oh well if you played WoW since the begining days ( alot of people think the begining was Lich King or Crusade, or halfway through Vanilla. not 2004 ) and im only stating that because if you played it since 2004, it had just as much as SWTOR if not less content wise ( atm SWTOR has more BG's and Raids on launch then WoW did, wow had 0 BG's and 1 Raid months after as well as multiple CLOSED leveling areas and CONSTANT crash's where there were almost constant day credits issued. ), that you state it has more is what is making me think you didnt.

Dev time for WoW was about 5 years also.

but to each their own, you dont think its worth it, by all means dont sub. but somehow comming bakc months later and expecting a timewarp of content to appear just isnt going to happen.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Amarok, on 07 February 2012 - 17:30, said:

you could go PvP

battlegrounds came out in 2005, months after releace, other then that it was World PvP and if you were lucky the Aerna, but ALOT of those were dead on servers, mainly pvp was around TM/SS. i was on Doomhammer ( and alot of the organized pvp i did was around the little rinkydink elvel town north of Org in the wooded area, i forget the name ). when people were PvPing, you couldnt enter the zone as it would crash that half of the contenent if to many people got in same zone. if it didnt crash it would lag out and you would get disconnected.

[Amarok]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 07 February 2012 - 17:53, said:

battlegrounds came out in 2005, months after releace, other then that it was World PvP and if you were lucky the Aerna, but ALOT of those were dead on servers, mainly pvp was around TM/SS. i was on Doomhammer ( and alot of the organized pvp i did was around the little rinkydink elvel town north of Org in the wooded area, i forget the name ). when people were PvPing, you couldnt enter the zone as it would crash that half of the contenent if to many people got in same zone. if it didnt crash it would lag out and you would get disconnected.

I know when battlegrounds came out, hence my comment about not getting any reward for PvPing at that point. That doesn't mean that it wasn't something to do. It was something to do. You got to level 60 and felt like pvping so you'd to go TM/SS or the alliance would raid that horde outpost on the eastern side of Ashenvale or the horde would take Auberdine or whatever it was called. None of us got any rewards for it, but there were nights where people would do that for hours just because it was fun.

The problem is that you're assuming that all content is created equal and it's not. It's just not. Look at one of vanilla WoW's instances vs one of SWTOR's. SWTOR's are more modern by far, and by that I mean they're very streamlined and they're short. But in '04/05 that wasn't how dungeons worked in MMOs. Scholo/Strath/LBRS/etc took ages to finish. So even though there weren't that many of them they gave you stuff to do for a significant amount of time. Same thing with the raids. You got to level cap and then you started your Onyxia chain, and that took forever and a day and then you would go and wipe repeatedly on Ony because at the time it was hard. Same with MC. I'm not saying that it's hands down better, but you could get more out of it. SWTOR hasn't been out that long, and everyone I know is "done with it" - I stopped my subscription until they implement transfers so that I could move to the server that most of my friends are on, and they've already done everything and have no interest in playing anymore. In WoW or EQ/EQ2 you could take a break for a month and come back and your group of friends would still be doing stuff. My group of friends has nothing left to do because they did it all. In a month.

[CUBBYJR2005]

Zappa859, on 07 February 2012 - 17:14, said:

Calm down there, bud.

I did play WoW in the beginning days. I played the game for roughly 7 years as well. And when I hit 60 in Vanilla, there was plenty to do. I never said I expected it to be like WoW, but WoW did have more quest content at Vanilla 60, than this does, which is 0.
Nothing you have done in WoW, I haven't. I can bet you on that. (Except Firelands, and most cataclysm stuff, cause I quit after a month of that and never looked back.)
(If you need some sort of proof, http://us.battle.net...is/Roija/simple That was my second mage on my second account. You can look at the achievements if you want for the Vanilla ones. My first account with my original mage who I had from the beginning was banned due to using WoWGlider, a bot, which I used on a priest. Not ashamed to admit it, I didn't wanna do the ball breaking level to 60 again, as we all remember, that took FOREVERRR.)

I have been playing MMO's since EQ in the 90's, so, yeah, I have experience under my belt.

I don't need an achievement system, but it does give incentive to go do goofy things. It's called side-content, and it helps give a game longevity. I also said I am a "stubborn" Star Wars fan, and that is what I was referring to. Most of my friends agree the game is lacking and there isn't much to do, but they are "stubborn" Star Wars fans who don't mind it, because it is Star Wars. I am a big fan too, just not enough to pay $15 a month. Whereas, they can justify it just because of the brand name. I don't.

This game was in development longer than any other MMO to date. So, yes, my expectations were high, as most were. They could have sacrificed some voice acting for more content and quests.

Either way, you are getting mad at me for no reason, over a game. I already said I enjoyed it but it is lacking so I have no desire to play. That I will come back and, I know Bioware has a great track record. So it will be great. But you can't get mad or blame me for having slightly higher expectations, for the sheer fact of the length of development for the game, and following it since it was (publicly) announced back in 07/08.

Zappa you got to remember one thing world of warcraft and other mmos were in development years before they came out and world of warcraft did'nt have everything at launch.You need to give the game time it just came out recently it not even 6 months old yet.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Amarok, on 07 February 2012 - 19:00, said:

Ony chain took a day, if that. Completed min in less as i wasnt running all around desolace finding rex, knew where he was from warloks Track Demons. My class mount took longer.

People were clearing the dungeons that Long were not at level cap, i did the raids of UBRS and Scholo, it took longer to find somebody with the key then to run the place i was one of the FEW on doomhammer horde that actually had the key for UBRS and Scholo, people would pay me alot of gold so i would stop what i was doing and open those 2 instances up.

The last instanse i did in SWTOR was i think foundry, that took twice as long as an instance iv done in wow. Ony wasnt hard, the only hard part was because her deep breaths were always bugged, and it was hard not getting a bugged version.

You can go on and on about how WoW is better then SWTOR, but your full of crap. SWTOR has the same as WoW when it was launched. Its not my fault your expectations from years of WoW doesnt carry over to a month old game

And i can prove when i started WoW, Dec of 2004 didnt activate soon er as the 12+ hour queues that people some how forgot about across a majority of the less then 10 servers was a turnoff and i waited for them to calm down.

* edit - aparently acording to wiki there were 88 servers,,, for some reason i remember about 10, there was nowhere near 88

[Kirkburn]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 07 February 2012 - 19:22, said:

* edit - aparently acording to wiki there were 88 servers,,, for some reason i remember about 10, there was nowhere near 88

88 sounds more correct to me, tbh. Certainly in the first few weeks the number of servers increased very rapidly, but I'm pretty sure it didn't start with as low as 10.


Also, I have to agree that you cannot expect SW:TOR to have the same amount of content as WoW atm, otherwise we wouldn't see it for another two years. But that doesn't mean it doesn't have 'enough' content. For one, there's much more variation in class experience than in WoW - you can't take a single class on each side to max level and experience everything, which you basically can in WoW (which I've done).

Besides, someone starting today in WoW would normally miss 50% of the content because it's no longer relevant - e.g. half of Outland and half of Northrend, plus most of the old raids. Those can't really factor into a comparison.

SW:TOR certainly has enough content to make me want to buy it. Which I will, eventually.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Kirkburn, on 07 February 2012 - 19:37, said:

I agree. Also People are not only missing out on content because its irrelivant, but because Blizz took it out. but the origional content is what SHOULD be put into comparision, how WoW was at launch, its launch dungeons. Because if your going to compare 1 game at launh to another, then you need to compare its launch. Not a game years into compared to a launch game. Its not not fair comparisons.

And i will agree to the class variation in SWTOR, but the variation is only main storyline. The other quests are pretty much the same onec you get off starting planets.

[Joseph B]

Xilo, on 07 February 2012 - 15:55, said:

People forget how buggy EQ1, Ultima, WoW, etc were at launch...

The difference is:

This is 2012, not 2001-2004. Completely different standard was set by other MMOs.

[DrunkenBeard]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 07 February 2012 - 19:45, said:

I agree. Also People are not only missing out on content because its irrelivant, but because Blizz took it out. but the origional content is what SHOULD be put into comparision, how WoW was at launch, its launch dungeons. Because if your going to compare 1 game at launh to another, then you need to compare its launch. Not a game years into compared to a launch game. Its not not fair comparisons.

Haha, if only we had more customers like you ! Ours don't care that we are a new company or that the product is still early in its life-cycle or that we aren't familiar with all the little tricks yet. You released your product in a particular market ? You better be at least as good as the other products in their current form ! If you can't, and you don't have any other redeeming aspect (low price, some particular feature, etc.) you can die a slow death while everyone ignores you. That's how rational customers work, they go for what is best.

While you can obviously give Bioware a pass for content quantity, you absolutely can't do that for quality. They had all the time to learn and adapt, yet they chose to take no risks at all. Same formula as every other archaic MMO, and please don't say that it's how the genre is and no one can do anything about it. A lot of companies are trying new things, look at Guild Wars 2, hell even ancient World of Warcraft is renewing itself with Mists of Pandaria and going for new gameplay and a new approach to talents. Why should I stick with a game that can neither innovate nor implement basic functionality from other games ? It just doesn't make any sense from a rational point of view.

As for combat logs, addons and macros. For some reason you quickly jumped to the conclusion that I was comparing the game to WoW in my previous post. I was not. I am comparing the game to my expectations. My expectations are the way they are after playing numerous MMOs and getting used to a certain Quality of Life. Combat logs are necessary for any high-end raiding guild unless you're going to make the raids trivial, it has nothing to do with DPS bragging rights or whatever, a combat log is a way to review the fight and learn from your mistakes.

Addons have lots of purposes which again aren't specific to combat. I like to play the AH, I use addons to track prices and deduce trends. I use addons to keep track of certain items that I need and where I should get them. I use addons that tell me the chances of getting a specific material from disenchanting or prospecting. I can go on and on, but addons do what they are supposed to do : improve quality of life. Now of course some may be too permissive and it's Bioware's role to suspend those or to add restrictions to its API.

Macros are very usefu. Not essential, but very useful. They certainly aren't as necessary for me as addons but still you can appreciate a focus macro if you've ever done some PvP.

I guess I'll never understand how people can get so defensive over a brand.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

DrunkenBeard, on 08 February 2012 - 11:07, said:

.

Yes i was concluding that you were comparing it to wow,, because wow is the only game that has those things.
I play SWTOR because i like to play it in its current form.
If you dont, so be it, go back to wow, i know i wont miss you. And i know alot of others wont also.

I dont want Combat Logs, as it stands now, its not about the meters, which is nice. You (generalized) cant throw your Epeen around going " look at me i got highest dps, still a dumbass that cant pay attention to mechanis though ". I dont want to see it, and dont care. So a video game is the only way to brag because your (generalized) to pathetic IRL you need a game to feel secure and good about yourself (generalized). So what.

As far as defensive, im defensive that people dont accept stuff for what they are and bitch and moan that its not everything they expect for them, welcome to the realworld, make your own game if you can do better, oh thats right, you cant.

Im not specifically defensive over SWTOR or Bioware, hell i was borderline on quitting last night, but it wasnt because of the game, it was from the morons that have no idea what teamwork is, and other greedy ******* that somehow think a video game will make them popular IRL be ause they are so insecure

Why IRL i openly hold the opinion of the stupidity and patheticness of the human race, and cant wait till they blow themselves up and move aside for something less greedy.

Literally you ( not generalized ), dont like it, dont play it, go play something you like.

* EDIT - every instance i have done during boss fights in SWTOR or Lineage 2, ect ( any game that doesnt have what you are askingn for ) when a boss does its thing, people pay attention.

I have YET to see a SWTOR player not move out of AOE on a new boss that they have never done before After the second spell. Because people are actually paying attention to what they are doing, not their dam meter. And that was the same back in Lineage 2 years ago.

I dont want Cookie Cutter Builds, i dont want everybody looking and acting the same due to rotations. And gear standards. You all bitch about " its all generic at end game, we all look the same, and fights are the same"

Yea fights are the same because your looking at a DPS meter and have mods giving instructions second by second, yea it does look the same when you spreadsheet the dam thing. Yea you look like joe blow generic because you create it that way. Yet you bitch because of it

you are the people that ruined WoW for me. Your currently ruining Star Wars.

[Xilo]

Editor fail AGAIN. Don't feel like retyping...

[Zappa859]

Hell-In-A-Handbasket, on 08 February 2012 - 15:20, said:

Im not specifically defensive over SWTOR

All your posts say otherwise.

You are very defensive, and it isn't just "your" game. Other people want to enjoy it too, but it is clearly lacking in many departments, whereas some it shines.

[+Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Zappa859, on 08 February 2012 - 16:06, said:

All your posts say otherwise.

You are very defensive, and it isn't just "your" game. Other people want to enjoy it too, but it is clearly lacking in many departments, whereas some it shines.

When i said specifically not SWTOR, i meant not specifically SWTOR, i will be defensive over any game i play, if im playing it, i like playing it. I dont play a game and moan that its not something else. I was defenseive over STO, and still am. Because i accept it and the Klingon Content for what it is. Yes i would like more stuff to do regardign Klingons, but if it doesnt come then so be it, ill move on. I wont bitch and moan otherwise.

I know its not just my game, but if you think its lacking in many department its obviously not yoru game either, would recomend finding one you like, if your not happy with something, bound to continue not being happy with it regardless. As if its not one thing, it will be another.

No, other people , you included, dont want to enjoy it, you want to enjoy The game you want to turn it into.