official Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Xilo]

Also your numbers are only the people on the fleet. not the hundreds/thousands of people on other planets, in ships, in instances in PVP, in flash point in operations...

While SWTOR has a large playerbase, it lost 400,000 subscriptions from its peak earlier this year as well as several members of its dev team.

You were saying?

[HawkMan]

You were saying?

From 1.7 Million. Meanign it still has twice as many subs as the third strongest P2P MMO.

And it's natural for the dev team to be reduced in size post release, I'm surprised it took this long

[metal_dragen Veteran]

Patch 1.3 was released yesterday!

Highlights

• Group Finder is now available! Players can use this feature to find groups for Flashpoints and Operations!
  
• New Legacy perks are now available! Perks offer bonuses for your character and can be purchased with credits after reaching specific Legacy levels.
  
• The Alderaan Civil War Warzone can now be played by two teams of the same faction.
  
• Players can now add augment slots to items at modification tables by using an augmentation kit and paying a credit cost.
  
• Pre-Season One Team Ranked Warzones are now available! Teams of 8 level 50 players can now compete with other Warzone teams to earn Ranked Warzone Commendations and receive their Team Rating.
  

So far, I've had good experience with the group finder - was playing on my 50 tank alt (juggernaut) and got a group in under a minute for a random hard mode flashpoint. Ended up being a Black Talon run and the group I was in steamrolled it in about 20 minutes - nice and smooth and an easy 5 Black Hole commendations for the random daily. I've heard sporadic reports that some DPS are queueing as healers in order to get a group faster, but I've yet to experience that or hear first-hand from a guildie or friend in game that this has happened to them.

Not entirely sold on the warzone changes. I don't know yet whether I like the changes to terrain in ACW and Voidstar. But, being able to play same faction ACW helps keep the rotation of warzones more varied (and it needed it last night since queues were popping slower than normal due to LFG tool and augment crafting).

[HawkMan]

They added free transfers from Lord Calypho to another pure PVP server, after moving my character I now experienced Queue to get on and up to 4 instances on imperial fleet 3 of which where full.

Transfer or not, there is a lot more people online than just the transfers account for so there seems to be a lot of people coming back with the new patches and server transfers. PVP and FP's and Ops are busy as well. the unfortunate part with the LFG tool is of course that everyone insists on skipping all the story stuff, even on the story LFG.

[killmaster84]

From 1.7 Million. Meanign it still has twice as many subs as the third strongest P2P MMO.

And it's natural for the dev team to be reduced in size post release, I'm surprised it took this long

But when the DEV team is struggling with bringing in new content to keep people at level 50 entertained they should most likely not make it a smaller team. EC is no longer fun. PVP is getting stale. Sure I could level up again to 50 on another toon like they want me to with all legacy stuff that is useless for the most part.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

The number of people is the same, there is just a fraction of the servers now..

500 people spread out over a mile seems like alot less compared to 500 put in a 200ft range

Its still 500 people

[Emn1ty]

But when the DEV team is struggling with bringing in new content to keep people at level 50 entertained they should most likely not make it a smaller team. EC is no longer fun. PVP is getting stale. Sure I could level up again to 50 on another toon like they want me to with all legacy stuff that is useless for the most part.

This is why I stopped playing STO. The endgame was stale, pvp was stale and the game never really went anywhere. This is the fate of all story based MMO's IMO. There should never be a "end" to an MMO. There can be an endgame, but the game should keep going even after the level cap has been reached. Games like EVE and even Tera understand this (seeing as Tera is pushing its political system very hard and adding a lot of content to it).

[HawkMan]

The number of people is the same, there is just a fraction of the servers now..

500 people spread out over a mile seems like alot less compared to 500 put in a 200ft range

Its still 500 people

No. When two server merge with a fleet pop of 50-150 and end up in one server with 4 fleets, 3 of which have full 250 players. it's not the same amount of people. People are coming back due to mergers and the new patches.

Unfortunately I'm now stuck in a situation where SWTOR is getting really interesting and I've been getting really into PVP and flashpoints and Ops. but at the same time TSW just launched and I'm enjoying that as much So SWTOR will have to wait a bit, but the pop is getting really healthy without me so :) I'll keep my sub for now and log in for PVP and flashpoint diversions when I get too much TSW.

[PGHammer]

No. When two server merge with a fleet pop of 50-150 and end up in one server with 4 fleets, 3 of which have full 250 players. it's not the same amount of people. People are coming back due to mergers and the new patches.

Unfortunately I'm now stuck in a situation where SWTOR is getting really interesting and I've been getting really into PVP and flashpoints and Ops. but at the same time TSW just launched and I'm enjoying that as much So SWTOR will have to wait a bit, but the pop is getting really healthy without me so :) I'll keep my sub for now and log in for PVP and flashpoint diversions when I get too much TSW.

That is the real problem that SWTOR (in fact, all MMOs) face - a truckload of other MMOs, both paid and F2P, to compete for your money and - most critical - compete for your TIME.

World of Warcraft (and developer/publisher Activision Blizzard) moved to the level-limited trial first precisely because of this issue. (Note that Rift has since followed suit prior to SWTOR making the same move.)

There's no real Sauron any more in the MMO space (not even WoW - remember, they were the first to move to level-limited); however, there are still more MMOs coming - and a large number of those coming are completely F2P, relying on DLC and microtransactions (which is powering DCUO and the rest of the SOE F2P stable {exception - the original Planetside], and will come to Planetside 2 later this year).

In other words - the competition is about to get even more interesting.

[HawkMan]

F2P is a skycastle. it has no real value. P2P games, ingeneral provide better base quality, but beyond that they provide regular and sizeable "free" content updates. F2P games are either limited in what they offer, they are Pay 2 Win, or as in GW, they are "completely" free, but as the developers themselves admit, they expect to lose users fast as they run out of content and then come back when they release paid add ons.

TSW for example. will be having monthly content updates or "issues" with new quests every month. including at least one investigation mission each month. already the 31st of July they're releasing the first one with at least 3 new missions.

So F2P for the MMO gamer has no real effect over subscription. the passerby casuals maybe, but they only stay for a few months at most anyway, and a F2P won't have them play anymore, just have them load up the game every now and then for a longer time.

I expect future MMO's to be launched with level or time limited F2P "demo's" though. It's always annoyed me when I can't demo an MMO outside of getting in on the beta, and I have skipped a few because of lack of free "demo".

a few has intrigued me enough to make me buy them anyway, like Vanguard(still the greatest fantasy MMO, and possibly greatest overall due to mixing the best of SWG with the best of EQ and then some, to bad it was to hard core to attract players). But with the saturation in the future MMO marked and with far more high quality MMO's. publishers can't expect intriguing quality to attract players without knowing how it is to play anymore.

[PGHammer]

F2P is a skycastle. it has no real value. P2P games, ingeneral provide better base quality, but beyond that they provide regular and sizeable "free" content updates. F2P games are either limited in what they offer, they are Pay 2 Win, or as in GW, they are "completely" free, but as the developers themselves admit, they expect to lose users fast as they run out of content and then come back when they release paid add ons.

TSW for example. will be having monthly content updates or "issues" with new quests every month. including at least one investigation mission each month. already the 31st of July they're releasing the first one with at least 3 new missions.

So F2P for the MMO gamer has no real effect over subscription. the passerby casuals maybe, but they only stay for a few months at most anyway, and a F2P won't have them play anymore, just have them load up the game every now and then for a longer time.

I expect future MMO's to be launched with level or time limited F2P "demo's" though. It's always annoyed me when I can't demo an MMO outside of getting in on the beta, and I have skipped a few because of lack of free "demo".

a few has intrigued me enough to make me buy them anyway, like Vanguard(still the greatest fantasy MMO, and possibly greatest overall due to mixing the best of SWG with the best of EQ and then some, to bad it was to hard core to attract players). But with the saturation in the future MMO marked and with far more high quality MMO's. publishers can't expect intriguing quality to attract players without knowing how it is to play anymore.

My point was *about* that saturation factor - it's why the time-limited trial for MMOs is in trouble.

F2P and its variants are all about continuing revenue streams (it's why the microtransaction, including P2W as it's disparagingly called, has taken root there). (Not all titles including microtransactions have devolved into P2W - however, a few higher-profile titles have.)

However, that saturation factor is a problem - not just for existing MMOs, but for the new entrants; a poor global economy does NOT help.

The value of F2P/microtransactions for the MMO gamer (or even the gamer in general) *will* go up when economic conditions worsen - it is, in fact, one reason why Guild Wars has thrived with pay-once, and why DCUO - which was practically written off, is growing, gaining players, and gaining content - both paid *and* free.

From the standpoint of the *developer* (whether they self-publish or not), it costs no less OR more to develop using F2P/microtransactions as a continuing-revenue source than a traditional model - for a quality MMO, the revenue model is not really all that relevant to the developer. Continuing revenues (however obtained) are how new content gets paid for in terms of development costs; still, that's more important to the publisher than the developer. (Again, I'll use DCUO as the example, as it has two streams for continuing revenue - microtransactions, which funds most non-DLC-related content additions, and paid DLC.)

However, the real issue is - as we both agree - saturation in the MMO space; the revenue model for individual titles is itself irrelevant.

[tiagosilva29]

Meh. When Turbine changed the model of their games to F2P+?transactions they had a 5x (DDO) and 3x (LOTRO) revenue increase. They release a paid expansion every year with several free updates. The players are ?ber-friendly/giving as well. Never had a problem there.

Now that SWTOR has this open experience I will spread my LOTRO friendliness there. Until I reach level 15 or they shift to F2P+?transactions... whichever comes first.

[HawkMan]

Going from nothing to very little isn't very impressive anyway.

[PGHammer]

Going from nothing to very little isn't very impressive anyway.

Until you realize that getting some dollars is better than getting no dollars at all.

[HawkMan]

point is that it doesn't make them succesfull MMO's not compared to subscriber MMO's with 500 k or a million subscribers like SWTOR.

for the publisher and dev and the gamer I think TSW does it best, subscirber game with regular big content updates, and a cash shop that only sells costumes and stuff, not content or pay to win gear.

[Kirkburn]

Loving the free trial atm. :) Just hit 15 on a Jedi Sentinel (though I think got to about 20 on beta), now I'm on a Trooper. Fun! Certainly pushing me towards subbing, plus only ?15 to buy atm.

[tiagosilva29]

I created a free account to test this joint.

[Xilo]

Game is good until you get to 50, do all the content in a month, and then your only other option is to play another character.

[Kirkburn]

Game is good until you get to 50, do all the content in a month, and then your only other option is to play another character.

Tbh, that doesn't bother me. There's fairly significant differences between classes, even on the same side. (I'm sure it gets less as you get higher, but I certainly don't feel that I've run out of content because I hit 15 on a Jedi Sentinel).

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Tbh, that doesn't bother me. There's fairly significant differences between classes, even on the same side. (I'm sure it gets less as you get higher, but I certainly don't feel that I've run out of content because I hit 15 on a Jedi Sentinel).

the differences are story line only, skills are basically the same just different name imo

and when i say story line i dont mean Planetary quests, only the quests marked " class " in your quest list is diffrent, everything else is the same. after the first character on a side, you can skip everything except "Class " missions and miss absolutely nothing

[Kirkburn]

the differences are story line only, skills are basically the same just different name imo

Well ... I primarily care about the story line? Surely you're not implying that a Trooper does plays the same as a Jedi Knight?

[Joseph B]

I enjoy the Star Wars universe. I enjoy the lore, I enjoy the movies. I enjoy every aspect of Star Wars.

But this. This game made me very... Unimpressed. My friend pre-ordered, and still plays...

I refuse to. Simply because I think I had more fun playing Age of Conan... Or Tabula Rasa as far as MMOs??go. Which is horrifying considering how bad they were.

It is a crying shame too... Such a great franchise deserves an infinitely better MMO.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Well ... I primarily care about the story line? Surely you're not implying that a Trooper does plays the same as a Jedi Knight?

no, but a trooper's mirror class is not a jedi knight, its a Imperial Agent, and they do play the same, a jedi knights mirror class is a marauder/juggernaught

i play a Sith Assasin, its the same as a Jedi shadow

[metal_dragen Veteran]

Game is good until you get to 50, do all the content in a month, and then your only other option is to play another character.

That's true of any MMO - that is not a problem unique to SWTOR. However, the game is only 7 months old. Give it time and they will add more content. They can't add the same amount of content that a game like WoW or EQ2 has overnight.

no, but a trooper's mirror class is not a jedi knight, its a Imperial Agent, and they do play the same, a jedi knights mirror class is a marauder/juggernaught

i play a Sith Assasin, its the same as a Jedi shadow

Actually, the Trooper mirror is the Bounty Hunter. The Smuggler is the Imperial Agent mirror.

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

Actually, the Trooper mirror is the Bounty Hunter. The Smuggler is the Imperial Agent mirror.

ahh, thats interesting, i would have thought the smuggler would be the bounty hunters mirror.