+LogicalApex MVC Posted October 20, 2011 MVC Share Posted October 20, 2011 I can honestly say, of all the people I know with SSD's, all would have drawn a blank of why they got a SSD if you didn't count speed. Reliability simply has not been a factor for most. Edited. Thanks. I said that inverted. Next time I should proof read before I hit submit :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockwiz Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 here we go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inklin Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Latest version of SSDLife has knocked just over a year off my T.E.C date :cry: Still in 2020 these drives will be long obsolete anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Boy Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 This came in my Dell Laptop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot B. Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 An honest question is why does this thread exists? Is they any proof that the numbers reported by SMART and this tool are reliable? I certainly hope not! Bought my Kingston SNV425-S2 64GB SSD in September 2010. January 2011 (when I originally posted the following results in this topic) SSD was 4 months old Health was 85% Work time: 2 months, 6 days Powered on: 229 times September 2011 SSD is 12 months old Health is 62% Work time: 6 months, 1 day Powered on: 578 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is August 2020." October 2011 SSD is 13 months old Health is 59% Work time: 6 months, 15 days Powered on: 646 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is April 2020." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coth Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 mine been 70% out of box with 0 hours and it's still 70% (obviously this app do not support this samsung ssd) http://online.hddlif...fa150a940922a98 but those unknown samsung smart parameters EB March 2011 (194 hours) : 7 September 2011 (5254 hours): 9 EC March 2011 (194 hours) : 2 September 2011 (5254 hours): 55 ED March 2011 (194 hours) : 15 September 2011 (5254 hours): 207 EE March 2011 (194 hours) : 1196 September 2011 (5254 hours): 1196 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogward Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Damn 51% used !!! :s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I am sure the attraction to SSDs isn't their reliability, but their speed. I am not questioning the attraction to SSDs, but merely this topic. The point of posting reliability estimates would be to challenge those who see SSDs as less reliable than HDDs, otherwise why do it? I have had more flash media die on me than anything other than Floppy Disks in my 13 years using PCs. This makes me wonder about the reliability of SSDs. As a result, looking at this thread aims to counter that, but offers nothing in the way of proof. I can find many people who are still running HDDs from over 5 years ago. A matter of fact, I have ones nearing 10 years old in use right now and they are still spinning fine. That doesn't mean HDDs never die. But if I told you my HDDs was going to last me another "3 years, 2 months, and 9 days" I should be showing why that number is so accurate and isn't just pulled out of someone backside. Again, this isn't an attack on SSDs, but an inquiring as to what the point of posting the "status" of your SSD if the status is hogwash. You make it sound like this program is randomly generating a date. You do realize that all drives (HHD or SSD) have a read/write rating of some sort, right? The manufacturers do actually test their product before they throw it out on the market, so they know exactly the amount of usage that an average user should get. So would you like to take a guess at how this program calculates that date? Like I said before, both sides will obviously have failures. Shock, static charge, voltage spikes, temperature, etc. would all play a factor in the life of a drive. I don't have any proof to back this, but maybe SSD's are more commonly used in laptops since the majority of them come in the 2.5" form factor. If there's any truth to that, then obviously it would be prone to more outside forces. But if you put a SSD and HDD next to each other, in the same environment, and read/write the hell out of it, I'm willing to bet the SSD wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted October 20, 2011 MVC Share Posted October 20, 2011 You make it sound like this program is randomly generating a date. You do realize that all drives (HHD or SSD) have a read/write rating of some sort, right? The manufacturers do actually test their product before they throw it out on the market, so they know exactly the amount of usage that an average user should get. So would you like to take a guess at how this program calculates that date? Like I said before, both sides will obviously have failures. Shock, static charge, voltage spikes, temperature, etc. would all play a factor in the life of a drive. I don't have any proof to back this, but maybe SSD's are more commonly used in laptops since the majority of them come in the 2.5" form factor. If there's any truth to that, then obviously it would be prone to more outside forces. But if you put a SSD and HDD next to each other, in the same environment, and read/write the hell out of it, I'm willing to bet the SSD wins. It seems the program does pull its number out of thin air, so to speak. Thanks to the link in Coth's post I was able to get a little insight into how the program generates its life date: It's a simple mathematical problem: in order to calculate it at once, we need to know at least the date when you wrote data to the drive the first time, but unfortunately, drives do not provide this information. That is why we need some time after the first launch of SSDLife to monitor how intensively you use your SSD in order to determine its average load. And as soon as we can calculate the approximate average amount of data written to the drive per day, we will be able to determine the time it will take you to use the entire lifetime capacity of the drive, which means we will be able to calculate the date when the lifetime of the SSD will be over. Of course, this date will keep changing depending on how the intensity of the drive usage changes. Source: http://ssd-life.com/eng/how.html So the program seems to be of dubious value. It is only able to guess that your drive will last x days based on how many writes it is supposed to handle and how often it thinks you write to the drive. It can't read real wear on the drive or report any underlying problems with the drive that aren't detected by SMART. And we all know how useful SMART is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It seems the program does pull its number out of thin air, so to speak. Thanks to the link in Coth's post I was able to get a little insight into how the program generates its life date: Source: http://ssd-life.com/eng/how.html So the program seems to be of dubious value. It is only able to guess that your drive will last x days based on how many writes it is supposed to handle and how often it thinks you write to the drive. It can't read real wear on the drive or report any underlying problems with the drive that aren't detected by SMART. And we all know how useful SMART is... Did you not read my post?... Thanks for basically re-emphasizing what I said... And no, it does not pull the date out of thin air. It's an educated prediction just like any other prediction/forecast in the world. Did you honestly think that this program could magically predict the exact day your drive will die? A drive is rated for a certain amount of read/writes. It will keep record of your usage over time and then that program will build a prediction using it's algorithm. It's common sense that it will change over time since sometimes it will be running for a month straight and sometimes it will be off for a week. The program is still correct for the usage you've put on thus far. It's not like a prediction is a bad thing... In the end, there have been plenty of people on here that have used their SSD's for a long time and the program still says they have years and years of life left. If somebody only has a few hours put on it, then yeah it's not exactly valid, but that's definitely not the case here. The proof is all contained in this thread. You can believe what you want, but saying it's wrong is just non-sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted October 20, 2011 MVC Share Posted October 20, 2011 Did you not read my post?... Thanks for basically re-emphasizing what I said... And no, it does not pull the date out of thin air. It's an educated prediction just like any other prediction/forecast in the world. Did you honestly think that this program could magically predict the exact day your drive will die? A drive is rated for a certain amount of read/writes. It will keep record of your usage over time and then that program will build a prediction using it's algorithm. It's common sense that it will change over time since sometimes it will be running for a month straight and sometimes it will be off for a week. The program is still correct for the usage you've put on thus far. It's not like a prediction is a bad thing... In the end, there have been plenty of people on here that have used their SSD's for a long time and the program still says they have years and years of life left. If somebody only has a few hours put on it, then yeah it's not exactly valid, but that's definitely not the case here. The proof is all contained in this thread. You can believe what you want, but saying it's wrong is just non-sense. It is a very poor guess* as the program needs to run from Day 1 until the end to give a decent estimate, but even then it isn't guessing on anything more than estimated write capability from the drive maker. So it is really guessing how many estimated writes your drive has left not its "health". That was my issue. If you look at the screenshots it implies that this product is able to read deeply into the SSD health and give an accurate estimate of how long it would last. That isn't the case. For even the one area it does monitor, wear level, there is no proof that their algorithm is even close to accurate. * Poor guess as there is a lot of write activity it could miss due to formats, dual booting, virtual machines using hardware I/O virtualization, or any other scenario where this program can't record even write. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It is a very poor guess* as the program needs to run from Day 1 until the end to give a decent estimate, but even then it isn't guessing on anything more than estimated write capability from the drive maker. So it is really guessing how many estimated writes your drive has left not its "health". That was my issue. If you look at the screenshots it implies that this product is able to read deeply into the SSD health and give an accurate estimate of how long it would last. That isn't the case. For even the one area it does monitor, wear level, there is no proof that their algorithm is even close to accurate. * Poor guess as there is a lot of write activity it could miss due to formats, dual booting, virtual machines using hardware I/O virtualization, or any other scenario where this program can't record even write. Why would the program need to run from day 1? I think you are really mistaken on how this program (and an SSD) works. The SSD itself is recording everything it does. All this program does is interpret that back-log and calculate a date for you. There is no such thing as "wear" on an SSD. There are no mechanical parts, so the only thing that resembles "wear" is the completed read/write cycles. That program truly is spot on since the SSD will die as soon as you use up those read/write cycles. That's just the physical nature of NAND memory. On the contrary, a mechanical HDD dies when the headers break or some other component fails. It's hard to predict the death of an HDD because it can still function as it goes "down hill". Whereas an SSD doesn't show symptoms; it just dies. You should probably read their website to clear up your thoughts: http://ssd-life.com/eng/how.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+LogicalApex MVC Posted October 20, 2011 MVC Share Posted October 20, 2011 Why would the program need to run from day 1? I think you are really mistaken on how this program (and an SSD) works. The SSD itself is recording everything it does. All this program does is interpret that back-log and calculate a date for you. There is no such thing as "wear" on an SSD. There are no mechanical parts, so the only thing that resembles "wear" is the completed read/write cycles. That program truly is spot on since the SSD will die as soon as you use up those read/write cycles. That's just the physical nature of NAND memory. On the contrary, a mechanical HDD dies when the headers break or some other component fails. It's hard to predict the death of an HDD because it can still function as it goes "down hill". Whereas an SSD doesn't show symptoms; it just dies. You should probably read their website to clear up your thoughts: http://ssd-life.com/eng/how.html I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... Using the SSD (write cycles) causes wear on the drive. Every time you write to the drive you wear it out just a little more... They don't wear the same way mechanical HDDs do, but they wear nonetheless. No, the program is not "spot on". I quoted their site earlier where they stated the drive only shows how many writes it has had at the moment they request it. The drive doesn't tell them when the first write occurred or how long it has been in use (so they have no way of knowing if the 45% "wear" on the drive occurred in 1 day or 10 years). They also admit that without this data their result is nothing more than an educated guess and can fluctuate as a result. And as I said earlier, it only shows the drive's wear level really. It isn't representative of the drive's overall health as the screenshots imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Worktime 2575 hours Powered on 21 times :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm not sure I understand what you're saying... Using the SSD (write cycles) causes wear on the drive. Every time you write to the drive you wear it out just a little more... They don't wear the same way mechanical HDDs do, but they wear nonetheless. No, the program is not "spot on". I quoted their site earlier where they stated the drive only shows how many writes it has had at the moment they request it. The drive doesn't tell them when the first write occurred or how long it has been in use (so they have no way of knowing if the 45% "wear" on the drive occurred in 1 day or 10 years). They also admit that without this data their result is nothing more than an educated guess and can fluctuate as a result. And as I said earlier, it only shows the drive's wear level really. It isn't representative of the drive's overall health as the screenshots imply. Then how does the program display "Work Time"? I highly doubt that all these people have run this program before this thread was created. By your logic, everybody's work time would be 0 days in their screenshots. An SSD stores a log of what it does along with a time stamp. The program is only doing a simple calculation based on what it reads from the SSD. Nothing more, nothing less. You still don't understand that with an SSD, health and wear level are the same thing. That is dictated by the read/write cycles, and that's it. It's very very simple. You just need to look past your knowledge of how a mechanical HDD works, because the two are very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplySchizo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I just recently put an order in for an OCZ 120GB Vertex 3. Should be $180 after rebate. Hope I don't regret it :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I just recently put an order in for an OCZ 120GB Vertex 3. Should be $180 after rebate. Hope I don't regret it :/ I have that same one and it's blazing fast. I believe it's still the best rated SSD by a pretty large margin. Be sure to update it to the latest firmware if possible. Sometimes it helps with stability and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplySchizo Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Will do, thanks (Y) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliot B. Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Bought my Kingston SNV425-S2 64GB SSD in September 2010. January 2011 SSD is 4 months old Health is 85% Work time: 2 months, 6 days Powered on: 229 times September 2011 SSD is 12 months old Health is 62% Work time: 6 months, 1 day Powered on: 578 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is August 2020." October 2011 SSD is 13 months old Health is 59% Work time: 6 months, 15 days Powered on: 646 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is April 2020." November 2011 SSD is 14 months old Health is 56% Work time: 6 months, 28 days Powered on: 709 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is June 2020." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primexx Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Just noticed that the new Intel SSD toolbox has its own drive life estimate. Bought my Kingston SNV425-S2 64GB SSD in September 2010. January 2011 SSD is 4 months old Health is 85% Work time: 2 months, 6 days Powered on: 229 times September 2011 SSD is 12 months old Health is 62% Work time: 6 months, 1 day Powered on: 578 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is August 2020." October 2011 SSD is 13 months old Health is 59% Work time: 6 months, 15 days Powered on: 646 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is April 2020." November 2011 SSD is 14 months old Health is 56% Work time: 6 months, 28 days Powered on: 709 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is June 2020." that seems like awfully quick wear =S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Zog Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Bought my Kingston SNV425-S2 64GB SSD in September 2010. January 2011 SSD is 4 months old Health is 85% Work time: 2 months, 6 days Powered on: 229 times September 2011 SSD is 12 months old Health is 62% Work time: 6 months, 1 day Powered on: 578 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is August 2020." October 2011 SSD is 13 months old Health is 59% Work time: 6 months, 15 days Powered on: 646 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is April 2020." November 2011 SSD is 14 months old Health is 56% Work time: 6 months, 28 days Powered on: 709 times "Your drive health is in good condition and according to current use, estimated lifetime is June 2020." Theres something wrong with that drive.. Heres mine..... Intel SSDSA2M080G2GC (Fw: 2CV102M3) Total/free size: 80.0GB / 8.3GB Work time: 8591 hours (11 months, 27 days, 23 hours) Powered on: 124 times Trime: supported, enabled Health: 99% Estimated lifetime: 8 Years, 8 months, 9 days (T.E.C. date - July 24, 2020) Data writen, GB: 3254.4 http://online.hddlif...21d01151899001a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 My 160GB X25-M 'G2' is still working perfectly after 12TBs of writes. Nine years to go! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nully Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Worktime 2575 hours Powered on 21 times :p update your firmware to 9! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEX4S Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 LOL - 8 years -- this will be gone in 8 months prime - you care to tell me how to uninstall the intel app ? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotoxic_hazard_835 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My status is that I don't have one. +1. But I plan to get one this Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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