New Windows 8.1 update 1 screenshots highlight modern app pinning

Another day, another look at the spring update for Windows 8.1. While we saw in the last update that modern apps could be pinned to the taskbar, in these shots we can see a little bit more about the pinning, including a hover preview.

It’s becoming more clear that Microsoft is moving towards blending the modern and classic desktop environments with Windows 8.1 and Windows 9. Windows 9 is rumored to include the ability to run modern apps in a windowed environment on the desktop, which will go a long way for usability for those using Windows 9 on non-touchscreen devices.

The latest screenshot leaks suggests that a build of the Windows 8.1 spring update may leak soon. While previous rumored leak dates have come and gone, the screenshot leaks are coming more frequently which could mean that more users have the build in their hands.

Microsoft is expected to either release or announce the spring update at its BUILD conference in April.

Windows 9 is not expected to be released until the first half of 2015 but rumors are suggesting that at the BUILD conference this year, Microsoft will outline its plans for the operating system.

Source: Win8China | Via: Winbeta

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It is so amazing how when Microsoft makes a radical change to the Windows UI, everyone hates it, then later they like it so much they can't give it up.

With one exception, when MS moved to the new UI in Windows 95 from Windows 3.x was it a welcome change. But I remember when they move came to Windows XP. OMG! Everyone and their mama was crying how much they hated the colors. Yet 10 years later, Windows XP is still the mostly widely used version of Windows, even though 3 versions have been release after XP.

Then everyone cried like children with Vista's Aero Glass UI. they didn't like the transparent Windows. They wanted to know how to install the older XP UI, which they also once upon a time hated.

Now MS moved to another UI and here we go again. First off, if the concept was so bad, why did Apple copy it? Why is Google also flattening their U for Android? Even Samsung for Kit Kat has also flatten some of the UI features of TouchWiz. Other phones like Sony Xperia and LG and others are also using flat UI features. They were fat in the first place. All they id was remove the drop shadows and used plain color vs gradients.

So many crybabies. All these company's are filthy rich. Microsoft could probably care less what OS you buy from them because millions of dollars is still millions of dollars no matter how you get it. But I am sure they would rather as many as possible adopt more recent options. It's called MOVING FORWARD.

If you don't like what new, stick to the old. Most of the applications from the XP days are quite usable ad will stand up to many of todays apps. Ass long as you have XP, Office 2007, and a few app similar; there is no work you cant do. Don't like the new, than don't buy the new.

Opinions are ok as long as they at least make sense. But looking for things to be wrong is just lame. No matter if I like an OS or not, there is still always going to be more bad than good. I wonder do people spend as much time on the petty things tha happen in real life vs looking at the 100's of good things.

The 'end' aim is to get people to use the METRO/MODERN apps...even if that means using them in the Desktop. Eventually all the classic apps and the remaining settings will be moved over to MODERN/METRO -

I think most people's gripe with that is that it's hidden, and you have to mouse into to the corner, then up to just show the list, then move up to click an entry. It's not particularly efficient. That said, on a tablet it's perfectly fine as you can just swipe in from the left.

yup, win8/Modern is great on a tablet.
and if you work mostly on the desktop while using a pc, with 8.1 there's no issue too.

it's all nag nag nag nag nag....

Like it. Currently using "True Launch Bar" plugins on the taskbar for all that and more, native would be nice too.

I like it. When I use the desktop I never see Metro much. When I use my tablet I don't see the desktop much, although I do appreciate that it is there and accessible for file management and all kinds of other stuff. Now I can at least see which Metro apps are running from the taskbar. This will go a LONG way to help me use more Metro apps now. particularly Metro Skype.

Windows 8 just beats Windows 7 all day long in many different areas, booting, file management, built in SkyDrive, the list is long. This just makes it much easier to run Win 8 as you would Win 7. Anyone that really needs the stupid menu back that much is smart enough to get a utility to fix that. I look forward to these changes, and so will many an end user.

I look forward to less Malware problems, but the quality of the Metro apps really needs to improve. Quicken, VLC, Utorrent, and Office would make great additions. I can't tell people to use the App Store to avoid Malware, because most of the time whatever they are searching for does not exist in the Metro environment.

Many of the folks I deal with don't even know what I mean when I say "launch your web browser". MS greatly underestimated how many outright neophytes use computers to do many things, without ever really understanding how computers work at all.

jimmyfal said,

Many of the folks I deal with don't even know what I mean when I say "launch your web browser". MS greatly underestimated how many outright neophytes use computers to do many things, without ever really understanding how computers work at all.

And yet they do manage to understand complex games without ever reading a manual.....

Confronting them, it's always 'I have don't have time for that' or 'it should be more intuitive'.
People should get basic training when buying a computer. Especially nowadays with hacking, clickbait etc. etc. one should have a basic 'drivers license' before entering the digital highway ;-)

I'd like to see a site do a comparison of Windows 7 vs. Windows 8.1 but only for the desktop side of things, no touchscreen or Apps stuff. Is Win8 any better than Win 7 when you look at ONLY the desktop side of things?

Who cares. Windows 9 will be out shortly and like ME and Vista which never caught on will decline quickly.

I care about Windows 9. However I am getting older and starting to follow the phrase if it aint broke don't fix it and will just keep 7. But if I decide to replace my aging 2.6 ghz phenom II Windows 9 will be a huge factor. I wonder if it will be wise to put a 6 year old (by 2015) OS that goes EOL in 3 years in a new PC then?!

XP users did this and now are throwing a fit for EOL as they view their computers as newish and I do not want to be in the same boat.

sinetheo said,
Who cares.

Well clearly HE/SHE does, since he/she asked the question.

Windows 8/8.1 is a better underlying OS than Windows 7. Not least of which are the documented boot up speed improvements, app launch speed improvements, and the UI enhancements to the file operations dialog, and not to mention the excellent multi-monitor support to span the taskbar across all monitors,.

p.s. Can members here please put their gender in their profiles so I don't have to write he/she every time when I can't tell from an obvious username

From the screen shots I've seen there is no indication that the Modern Apps are running on the desktop.

It looks like all that is happening is when you switch from a Modern App to the Desktop the App is shown on the Taskbar so you can switch to it more easily.

This will still be as jarring and irritating as it is now!

What they really need is the equivalent of Stardock's ModernMix but built in!!

Keep up mate, that's supposedly coming in Windows 9 (FKA 8.2). There's no suggestion that the ability to run Metro apps on the desktop is coming in Windows 8.1 Update 1. Just a way to pin them, and launch them from the desktop without having to go to the start screen first.

I hope they're improving the Start Screen further, but adding things like folder tiles, additional properties (like being able to permanently set a tile to Run As Administrator, or set a command line parameter on a desktop app's tile), and set a custom tile colors (so I can color code my app tiles to MY liking). I also wish the Start Screen would appear in the Switcher *always*, including the upper-left-corner preview, so that if I launch one app, and then hit that hot-corner, I can click to go "back" to the start screen... just like the "Desktop" appeared in the old Flip-3D task switcher. It would also be cool to dock the Start Screen next to other apps.... making things more consistent.

You can do those things with shortcuts that you're asking about already: right-click your desktop app's tile, click Open file location, right-click the now-highlighted shortcut file and click Properties, and then set it to run as admin there or change command line parameters to your heart's content. (You can't do that to store apps' tiles because store apps don't have command line parameters and can't be run as admin.)

Joaoo said,
anyone known what that system monitor application is on the bottom right corner?

Thanks

Was just about to ask the same thing... it looks nice. The data bandwidth monitor thing in the taskbar too....

Now they need to add Live Tile pinning to the desktop. So you can have a "gadget" experience and see quick data and have a quick source to get into and out of the app for more info.

They're actually quite good, and I prefer them over desktop browser pages when I'm on my Surface Pro 2. Bing News, Bing Weather, Bento Box, Flipboard, Alphajax, even Facebook, I suggest you actually try some...

Otto Gunter said,
They're actually quite good, and I prefer them over desktop browser pages when I'm on my Surface Pro 2. Bing News, Bing Weather, Bento Box, Flipboard, Alphajax, even Facebook, I suggest you actually try some...

QFT.

ok so they may be good on a tablet but not so good on a desktop pc, I still do not have a tablet but will get one when the Pro 2 prices drop a bit...

I for one, seem to be in the minority, don't like the new direction. I like windows 8.1 just as it is. Using the desktop on my Dell venue 8 pro, is next to impossible. It shouldn't even be an option. On my dual monitor desktop, I have one screen on Modern and One on desktop, viola, best of all worlds.

I understand that Microsoft needs market share, but going backwards to windows 7, with some modern components, seems silly. Who will then develop "modern" apps, if you still have a viable desktop. To me the greater sin, is caving like they did on Xbox One, and now windows 8.2 and or 9.

It's just funny to me that folks can learn Android, but aren't smart enough to learn Windows 8.1?

ChefFabrizio said,
I for one, seem to be in the minority, don't like the new direction. I like windows 8.1 just as it is.

I agree with you

ChefFabrizio said,
I for one, seem to be in the minority, don't like the new direction. I like windows 8.1 just as it is.
If more people agreed with you and it reflected in sales then Microsoft wouldn't even be contemplating this.

ChefFabrizio said,
I for one, seem to be in the minority, don't like the new direction. I like windows 8.1 just as it is. Using the desktop on my Dell venue 8 pro, is next to impossible. It shouldn't even be an option. On my dual monitor desktop, I have one screen on Modern and One on desktop, viola, best of all worlds.

I understand that Microsoft needs market share, but going backwards to windows 7, with some modern components, seems silly. Who will then develop "modern" apps, if you still have a viable desktop. To me the greater sin, is caving like they did on Xbox One, and now windows 8.2 and or 9.

It's just funny to me that folks can learn Android, but aren't smart enough to learn Windows 8.1?

Well I love Metro on my Nokia. I refuse to run it on my desktop and stayed with 7 after having 8 for awhile.

I do not like my screen being flashed back in the closing door syndrome of losing all your work when the start screen pops up. Psychologists have documented this with Modern and it messes with short term memory. I can't stack, have aero preview, aero snap, or anything I can with Windows 7.

On my phone yes I do one thing at a time. On a workstation I have several things opened at a time and need to go back and forth frequently. 8/8.1 is horrible and I mean horrible to do this. MS even admitted they were hoping whole company departments would just have gorilla arms and all screens would be touch by now.

Just like the netbook craze a half decade ago I will say the tablet phrase is a fad too. Some people need a pc for work still and content creation. Just like mainframes are still with us so will pcs for decades to come.

sinetheo said,

Well I love Metro on my Nokia. I refuse to run it on my desktop and stayed with 7 after having 8 for awhile.

You got rid of the superior underlying OS (fact, not opinion) because of Metro? You are aware you can avoid it entirely if you know what you're doing, right?

Yeah, you think they would have been able to patent running full-screen apps in a window even if they wanted to? And what makes you think they were the first to implement the "run Metro apps in a window" feature?

It would be awesome that Windows 8.1 U1 would support the ability to run Xbox Music on a window...

Windows Media Player 12 same UI is starting to feel boring... ;/

There is something to be said for being able to decide what your main operating space is: start screen or desktop. One is obviously not useable for touch devices such as tablets, the other is so rich with features that it can't be easily copied into the new space.

But what's up with this terrible design? I really like the metro and I think aero is cool too. But they dont mix at all. Just look at that flat tile encased in that gummy aero capsule... Why not make them like the start button? Basically have a list of tiles making up the taskbar with no additional border around them.

Mugwump00 said,
The 'gummy' border bit indicates the app is running?

I know. I'm just saying it doesnt look good together the aero effects and the metro tiles. There are plenty of ways to improve the design. For example they could have made it like the start button right next to it. A borderless tile that change collor when selected/running. So you have the icon of the pinned store and when its running it turns green.

Therein is the perfect example of strange divergence in what Microsoft is trying to achieve - on one-hand a radical shift towards a touch-friendly, simplified UI, whilst adhering to the die-hards and enterprise's calls to not alter familiarity at all.

So they land-up slapping mobile-like apps over a desktop OS that still clings to bitmap elements from 2005 (re: Vista icons). It's some achievement, sort of (with lots of room for improvement), but I think we all agree it ain't pretty, and of course the vocal extremes calling it unusable (which rationally it is far from).

That's I wish they'd apply the same rigorous UI overhaul as the Office 2013 team did. Considering I've adapted to the Start Menu, I think I can tolerate some up-to-date icons!

It could be a work-in-process. The idea of the desktop being the main screen for non-touch PCs isn't a bad one. They just need to blend it together correctly. The move towards touch and mobility is unmistakable and Microsoft was right to respond to it.

However they were wrong to force this new UI on non-touch PCs. Instead of amazing the world with a great touch UI they confused the world with a bad mouse+keyboard UI since most consumers got a non-touch Windows 8 PC.

They should have marketed the 'modern interface' as something put on top of the desktop that is activated by default on touch devices and deactivated on default on non-touch devices. When deactivated all the new applications (mail, store, calendar, etc) are accessible in the desktop (pinned to the taskbar by default). The desktop itself could have a 'modern' appearance.

I think Windows 8 would have been received very differently. People would have a faster Windows that works basically the same although it has a flatter looking UI and they have a bunch of new applications. People would still visit the Microsoft store and all the other stuff Microsoft was hoping for. These latest changes could be them moving towards such a Windows experience.

Will this still be switching from desktop to fullscreen metro? That's what I hate in 8. If this is just a shortcut to make it happen quicker, then this fixes nothing for me.

I hope Microsoft won't make the mistake of having Store apps exist in the desktop mode within individual windows. That would completely defeat the purpose of snapping and the existence of the distinct "touch-first" experience.

The "touch-first" mode (Modern) should be offered in the desktop as a single window fully containing the Modern experience, somewhat similar to what was done with Media Center.

This way, it could be sized, maximized, moved or closed at will while retaining the full concept intact.

This is my point tho - ModernMix seems to do all that I require without compromise**.

Can anyone point to actual limitation of MM that would require MS's superior exposure and a lot more time to resolve?

(** come to think of it, I think it still has some background-audio issues...)

TheCyberKnight said,

The "touch-first" mode (Modern) should be offered in the desktop as a single window fully containing the Modern experience, somewhat similar to what was done with Media Center.

But the desktop exists as an app within Modern, so how would the Modern side be able to be a window on the desktop within itself . . . I'm getting a headache just trying to figure that out.

You can boot directly to the desktop, but that doesn't change the fact that it's just a component of Windows, not the whole thing like the earlier versions. You can hide Modern, but it's designed as the primary UI, not the desktop.

I'd still rather run desktop apps directly in Modern, rather than in the desktop "virtual 7" mode.

Mugwump00 said,
.....

Adding API support to WinRT for DDE for one.

If you're going to put modern in a window on the desktop, people will want to drag&drop onto it.

Someone please tell me why windowed-modern apps is going to take as long to complete as Windows 9 when Stardock did it very effectively in months or less?

I use ModernMix sometimes but I don't understand the technicalities or limitations of the product. Is deficient in any obvious way that would mean MS must take longer to get it right, or this simply a matter of dev-agility or wanting to prolong the inevitable to the next $-worthy update?

Probably has to do with scaling and proper API support for it.

Rather then scaling a 'fullscreen' app in a Window. I can force fullscreen only games to run in a Window too, doesn't mean its a good way to achieve those results.

[quote=Mugwump00 said,]Someone please tell me why windowed-modern apps is going to take as long to complete as Windows 9 when Stardock did it very effectively in months or less?

ModernMix was buggier than hell when it first came out, maybe MS doesn't want their solution to be buggy by releasing it in "months or less"? Could be ModernMix works ok now, but I dumped it since going to Surface Pro 2, now it's my full-screen Metro display, and my 2nd monitor is the desktop - best of both worlds, no problems!!

For one metro needs to have the apps run on all platforms without a recompile or emulation between phone and desktop. Next metro 1.0 has apps like the weather channel app which scroll horizontal. How can you do this without touch on a mouse with a scroll wheel that's vertical?

Why should WP apps and ModernUI apps be identical when iOS apps and OS X apps are not? It's even more embarrassing give that (in some cases) iOS apps and OS X apps were identical, or have we forgotten that early versions of Asphalt (iOS racing game) ran on OS X (back to Snow Leopard) just fine? There's more fracturization on Android than there is between WP and ModernUI - and that is despite the needed recompile. Cauldrons, meet Dutch ovens.

PGHammer said,
Why should WP apps and ModernUI apps be identical when iOS apps and OS X apps are not? It's even more embarrassing give that (in some cases) iOS apps and OS X apps were identical, or have we forgotten that early versions of Asphalt (iOS racing game) ran on OS X (back to Snow Leopard) just fine? There's more fracturization on Android than there is between WP and ModernUI - and that is despite the needed recompile. Cauldrons, meet Dutch ovens.

Because an Android app runs on phone and or tablet. Same with iOS. The whole point of Metro was to get people who do not like change used to it, so when they need a phone a Nokia would feel more comfortable.

But the apps are not compatible and there are hardly any Windows 8 apps. The demo shots from MS pictured LinkedIN, Facebook, Salesforce, etc. MS hoped due to its large monopoly that all the sudden a flood of apps would come by and then everyone would go ahhh man I wish I had Windows 8 so I could be like the cool kids and run this app etc.

... as we know that didn't didn't happen. The few apps are on Windows phone and not compatible with 8 without a rewrite?! Why?

I am open to apps if they can behave with Aero like a win32 one. Windows 9 must do this and a hack like Start8 is not enough. MS has to redo ModernUI from scratch with 2.0 and integrate it all together somehow.

Windows 8 was rushed for the sake of release aka Vista syndrome.

sinetheo said,
For one metro needs to have the apps run on all platforms without a recompile or emulation between phone and desktop. Next metro 1.0 has apps like the weather channel app which scroll horizontal. How can you do this without touch on a mouse with a scroll wheel that's vertical?

In that case, the mouse wheel would switch to operating the horizontal scroll. Now the issue comes when a developer develops their app to scroll in both planes. That hasn't happened yet though, to my knowledge at least.

Mugwump00 said,
Someone please tell me why windowed-modern apps is going to take as long to complete as Windows 9 when Stardock did it very effectively in months or less?

Because Microsoft is being dragged kicking and screaming into doing this. I know for a fact that all of these Windows 8 issues were raised even before the world saw the first betas. None of these problems were a surprise.

And all of those predictions (e.g. about the average home user's confusion, businesses skipping it because of training issues, etc.) have now been proven true.

It will take YEARS to rebuild the public's trust in Windows.

This did not need to happen.

sinetheo said,
For one metro needs to have the apps run on all platforms without a recompile or emulation between phone and desktop. Next metro 1.0 has apps like the weather channel app which scroll horizontal. How can you do this without touch on a mouse with a scroll wheel that's vertical?

Scrolling is scrolling no matter which direction you're going. In Metro, your mouse wheel works fine for scrolling horizontal. I use mine to scroll the Start Screen all the time.

anothercookie said,
Step in the right direction for non tablet computers

Sure the start screen is usable but it's a little awkward


It's better in every regard. Just admit it.

Should have been there from the beginning. Desktop users need to be able to use the app store for it to take off. The OS X model of app store vs iOS is what is needed.

Honestly, that's probably the best way I've seen the app store done is via OSX. Very simple and easy to use; if we could have that experience on Windows, I probably wouldn't have to worry about viruses with installations taking place outside of the Windows store for what others may "think" is the right application.

Of course, for the app model to work (and I know I've stressed this already), Microsoft needs to clean up the app store too. There are so many look alike apps, some free, many pay-for that makes it very difficult to find the right one. I can only imagine my family installing the wrong thing, or worse, paying for the wrong app by mistake.

(inb4 someone tells me there are look alike apps on OSX or iOS too; I'm aware, but it's not nearly as bad and I'm talking about Windows, products my family actually use)

ObiWanToby said,
Should have been there from the beginning. Desktop users need to be able to use the app store for it to take off. The OS X model of app store vs iOS is what is needed.

Desktop users _can_ use the Windows Store. There are plenty of desktop programs listed there. It could use some more functionality for desktop programs, though - the store just shows you a little information about the app and directs you to the relevant web site. Still, it does help you find programs.

Or do you mean that there should be a desktop based version of the Store? I don't really think that's necessary - there's nothing stopping stationary computer users from utilizing the Store - I use it all the time. But then I use a mix of Modern and desktop.

There's nothing stopping developers using the WinRT (not to be confused with the ARM based Windows RT operating system) platform to develop apps suited for desktop users, even now.

techbeck said,
Nice. Moving in the right direction.

Agreed. This works out well for both tablet and desktop users. Desktop users can avoid the constant back and forth of switching apps. Tablet users can either stay in tablet mode or choose between the two options.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

Does it matter? There will always be someone who doesnt like something.

z0phi3l said,
Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

There will be no more excuses. This fixes all of Windows 8's issues.

techbeck said,

Does it matter? There will always be someone who doesnt like something.

Well, that might be because it is still hideous -- they have done nothing to address that.

Also, there still is no guarantee that the start menu will be back AND that the charms crap can be disabled.

Bottom line -- there is still a lot to "hate" about.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

You know what's more annoying than the "haters"? The people who constantly whine about them.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?


Haters? Excuse? People just have different opinions. If you dislike some feature in a tool, are you looking for "excuses to hate"?

runningnak3d said,

Well, that might be because it is still hideous -- they have done nothing to address that.

Also, there still is no guarantee that the start menu will be back AND that the charms crap can be disabled.

Bottom line -- there is still a lot to "hate" about.


Huh its OOTB option to disable charms bar. Its just a bit hidden.

1. Press "WIN+R" key combination to launch RUN dialog box then type regedit and press Enter. It'll open Registry Editor and go to following key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ImmersiveShell\

2. Under ImmersiveShell key, create a new key EdgeUI.

3. Now select newly created key "EdgeUI" and in right-side pane, create a new DWORD DisableCharmsHint and set its value to 1

Xilo said,
Unless there's a proper Start Menu and Metro bull**** is optional, then it will never be good.

Metro is already optional, so 1 point down, just 1 more to go.

runningnak3d said,

Also, there still is no guarantee that the start menu will be back AND that the charms crap can be disabled.

You can disable the Charms bar in 8.1. Right click on the Taskbar > Properties > Navigation. It's the first option there.

It's funny how people who don't like 8.x often know so little about it.

Shadowzz said,

Huh its OOTB option to disable charms bar. Its just a bit hidden.

1. Press "WIN+R" key combination to launch RUN dialog box then type regedit and press Enter. It'll open Registry Editor and go to following key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ImmersiveShell\

2. Under ImmersiveShell key, create a new key EdgeUI.

3. Now select newly created key "EdgeUI" and in right-side pane, create a new DWORD DisableCharmsHint and set its value to 1

... Or just do what i said above.

runningnak3d said,

that the charms crap can be disabled.

In 8.1 right click taskbar, select Properties and go to navigation tab. Its right there.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

I can tell you right now. The fact that it will still feel like an OS with identity crisis - pinned or not, windowed or not - Metro apps will still look and function very different than traditional desktop apps. If they are trying to unify the desktop and modern environment then they simply need to put more effort - what they are doing is still half-arsed. They need to update the desktop UI further (get rid of the Windows Vista era icons and UI elements for instance and metro-fy them), etc.

There is a lot more issues with Windows 8 than the (in)ability to pin and run Metro apps on the desktop. Your comment makes it sound like this is all that's wrong with Windows 8.x but that's far from it.

If you don't like other people's opinions then ignore them? I don't know what else to tell you. My personal opinion is that Microsoft missed the mark BIG time with Metro on every device because other than on mobile devices it doesn't work well for many people and that's the simple reality whether you like it or not...

Xilo said,
Unless there's a proper Start Menu and Metro bull**** is optional, then it will never be good.

Unless the Start Menu is optional, it will never be good.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

Why are you looking for a reason? Let Microsoft blend the two UI environments into one so everyone is happy. It will take time.

What's this obsession with icons? Of course it would be nice to see an OS-wide refresh, but are you guys sitting and staring at them all day that it becomes so much of an issue and prevents you from using the OS? There are far more important things to be fixed or improved and if MS pays attention to them and leaves the icons as-is I'll still be happy.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

No idea, but you can tell what the, "haters," (read: people you disagree with) think is really getting to you.

runningnak3d said,

Also, there still is no guarantee that the start menu will be back AND that the charms crap can be disabled.

Actually, with Windows 8.1, you can already disable the upper two hot-corners, so you aren't accidentally triggering charms or switcher when you go for the File Menu or the Close button. And we've already seen mock-ups of the "Start Menu" option that they're planning.

Not that there's anything wrong with the Start Screen... I use it on a desktop all the time, and it's quite functional and efficient.

pmbAustin said,
And we've already seen mock-ups of the "Start Menu" option that they're planning.
We have? All I've seen so far are fan fantasies so I'd love to see these. Got a link?

Shadowzz said,

Metro is already optional, so 1 point down, just 1 more to go.
Can you uninstall it or prevent it from being installed? Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory? If the answer is no then it is not optional.

Bumblefly said,
Can you uninstall it or prevent it from being installed? Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory? If the answer is no then it is not optional.

If you're that concerned about the fractions of disk space they take up, then I feel sorry for you. Just ask yourself this: Can you uninstall the desktop UI? Then why the heck do you think you can uninstall the Metro UI?

Bumblefly said,
Can you uninstall it or prevent it from being installed? Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory? If the answer is no then it is not optional.

With HD space being more than enough for most users and the minimal space this takes up. No big deal. Its not like new systems are coming with 20gb HDs still.

Shadowzz said,

Huh its OOTB option to disable charms bar. Its just a bit hidden.

1. Press "WIN+R" key combination to launch RUN dialog box then type regedit and press Enter. It'll open Registry Editor and go to following key:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ImmersiveShell\

2. Under ImmersiveShell key, create a new key EdgeUI.

3. Now select newly created key "EdgeUI" and in right-side pane, create a new DWORD DisableCharmsHint and set its value to 1

What 'normal' person is going to do that?
Windows just gets worse and worse, App store apps pinned on the desktop? 2 web browsers, 2 places for settings? Office only works on the desktop, desktop apps, windows store apps, no desktop apps on RT machines, trying to use office with touch on a tiny screen.

Its so complicated for 'normal' people.

Its no wonder that the iPad is doing so well, you turn it on and start doing stuff. Windows is so not that.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

Well in defense I had this functionality 5 years earlier with 7. Why change then?

Bumblefly said,
Can you uninstall it or prevent it from being installed? Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory? If the answer is no then it is not optional.

Wut, 90% of whats in the OS taking up space is stuff you will NEVER use.
And you want to force a start menu added into it upon me..... pot meet kettle.

Shadowzz said,

Wut, 90% of whats in the OS taking up space is stuff you will NEVER use.
And you want to force a start menu added into it upon me..... pot meet kettle.

I didn't mention a start menu, and that 90% number is nonsense. Don't just make stuff up.

Bumblefly said,
Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory?
Yes you can since all Metro apps can be uninstalled.

Bumblefly said,
Can you uninstall it or prevent it from being installed? Can you free up the wasted disk space used by the built in Metro apps in their hidden directory? If the answer is no then it is not optional.

FYI: All Windows features take up space, even the uninstalled ones because they remain on the drive. I think they introduced that with W7. On the other hand if you remove the removable apps (most of them are) they actually disappear.

Bumblefly said,

I didn't mention a start menu, and that 90% number is nonsense. Don't just make stuff up.


Thought you were one of those that wanted the start menu back, my mistake.

And ye 90% is a bit over exaggerated, but even so, by far most of the features that are part of Windows 8, will never be used by you, me or most people.

Romero said,
Yes you can since all Metro apps can be uninstalled.

I once tried uninstalling them, it only removed them from the Start Screen. The files remained in the hidden WindowsApps folder. I had to take ownership of the folder and manually delete them.

derekaw said,

Its no wonder that the iPad is doing so well, you turn it on and start doing stuff. Windows is so not that.

I turned my computer on, and immediately started doing stuff. What makes you think you can't? At least Windows RT is self-sufficient (as is Android). You need to hook up an iPad to a computer to get it going. Or at least you used to.

You need to put some time in to customize Windows to suit your preferences, but you can use it right out of the box. Heck, the first thing I did on a reinstall of Win 3.x was install Norton Desktop to replace the shell. But that was my preference, not a requirement to work. And so is adding a Start Menu and hiding the sidebars and stuff like that.

Thrackerzod said,

I once tried uninstalling them, it only removed them from the Start Screen.
What method did you use?

Thrackerzod said,
I uninstalled them from the Start Screen, click on the tile and then click the uninstall button.
That's why. This only "stages" the bundled/pre-installed apps so that Windows can reinstall them for each new user account (just because you don't like them doesn't mean other users of the same PC won't either). Use the Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Remove-AppxPackage and Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online commands from an admin PowerShell window instead.

I guess just like other out of the box features in Windows Microsoft doesn't want the files truly deleted in the normal course by users. However both can be done if you just know how (that's how people are able to create "lite" versions of the OS).

Edited by Romero, Jan 23 2014, 7:56pm :

runningnak3d said,

Well, that might be because it is still hideous -- they have done nothing to address that.

Also, there still is no guarantee that the start menu will be back AND that the charms crap can be disabled.

Bottom line -- there is still a lot to "hate" about.

There is nothing wrong with the start screen for Windows 8. The problem is not the UI, the problem is the hardware its on and how people se to hate progress.

1 - The UI itself works, however the inconsistency kills. Example. If I open a web page, I prefer it to open in the desktop bowser always, not the Metro version ever.

2 - Hardware issue. Even though I bought a Windows 8 laptop, I bought one purposely that didn't have touch. Touch is perfect for smartphones and tablets and a All-In-One PC if you have kids. But laptops and desktops is just not the place.

3 - People's mindset. This here is the biggest issue. You cats who don't like it, make it a point to let the world know it. Thus helping make the adoption rate slowly.
What all the fans of platforms always fail to see is so simple. They find one thing to hate and so the rest sucks to? Why? No platform is perfect. But at least Windows allows you the flexibility to change or 3rd party's find a way.

What is so amazing is, the platforms that you like, also have similar issues and yet you all dismiss them as ok, because you prefer not to attack what you like. But if it is another, you all go out of your way to spread FUD.

Romero said,
What's this obsession with icons? Of course it would be nice to see an OS-wide refresh, but are you guys sitting and staring at them all day that it becomes so much of an issue and prevents you from using the OS? There are far more important things to be fixed or improved and if MS pays attention to them and leaves the icons as-is I'll still be happy.

Yes, I do have to sit and stare at them all day (indirectly but I do nevertheless). It makes the experience look unfinished, unpolished and amateurish. If they want to charge a premium for their OS then it needs to work as well as look like a premium OS. Do you think you will see such UI psychosis happen in OS X for instance? Not in a million years. If I wanted to look at ugly, inconsistent UI then I'd run a 5 years old flavor of Linux...

Romero said,
That's why. This only "stages" the bundled/pre-installed apps so that Windows can reinstall them for each new user account (just because you don't like them doesn't mean other users of the same PC won't either). Use the Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Remove-AppxPackage and Get-AppXProvisionedPackage -online | Remove-AppxProvisionedPackage -online commands from an admin PowerShell window instead.

I guess just like other out of the box features in Windows Microsoft doesn't want the files truly deleted in the normal course by users. However both can be done if you just know how (that's how people are able to create "lite" versions of the OS).

Thanks, I'll make a note of those commands.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

The fact that it's still a hybrid system that's a jack of all trades and a master of none?

They need to separate these things as they are different use case Operating Systems. But no, they'll probably spend years trying to combine them instead and making compromises every step of the way....like what's happening already.

z0phi3l said,

Once this happens, wonder what the haters will uses as an excuse?

Well, clearly, the critics were right, now weren't they? Microsoft's boondoggle has cost the PC industry billions. It will take years AFTER they fix their idiotic mistakes before people trust a Windows PC out of the box again.

excalpius said,

Well, clearly, the critics were right, now weren't they? Microsoft's boondoggle has cost the PC industry billions. It will take years AFTER they fix their idiotic mistakes before people trust a Windows PC out of the box again.
The critics may have been (partially) right, but your exaggeration takes the cake.

excalpius said,

Well, clearly, the critics were right, now weren't they? Microsoft's boondoggle has cost the PC industry billions. It will take years AFTER they fix their idiotic mistakes before people trust a Windows PC out of the box again.

Right. Microsoft needs to restore not only the Windows 7 desktop, but the classic Windows 95 desktop as well, Program Manager, and AERO before I buy a PC ever again.