Nokia: We have a backup if Windows Phone doesn't work out

Is Nokia planning ahead in case its upcoming Windows Phone 8 plans don't work out? That appears to be what the company's new chairman Risto Siilasmaa said earlier this week. The YLE.fi website reports that Siilasmaa made an appearance on a Finland-based TV talk show and said that the company in fact has a "contingency plan" in case their Windows Phone 8 products don't sell as anticipated.

While Siilasmaa, who became the company's chairman in May, added that he was sure that Windows Phone 8 would be a success for Nokia, one has to wonder why he would mention any sort of backup plan in public. Whatever that plan might be, it does not sound like it will involve Symbian, which is Nokia's in-house operating system and was its major OS until the Windows Phone deal was announced. Siilasmaa said, "Symbian’s market share has come down close to zero."

The story also points out what we have reported before: That Nokia's stock price has plummeted down to new lows. In June the company announced plans to cut 10,000 more workers as well as a shake up in its executive ranks. One of the changes put Chris Weber, formerly the head of Nokia's US operations, as its new executive vice president of sales and marketing.

Source. YLE.fi.com website

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WP DOES NOT work, it's a proven fact, judging by the market share it has almost two years after launch. WP8 will change little, as is more or less a tweaked WP 7.5. So my recommendation is start rolling the backup plan = Meego.

You had a winner in N9, but abandoned it right before the launch. Dumba$$es.

If they have a backup plan I don't know what they hell they are waiting for before executing it.

Even if WP8 turned out to be a success they'll still be burning their cash reserves this whole year at the very least.

And then again if WP8 succeeds they can count on not being the only player. Every other OEM is releasing half assed WP7 devices out of lack of interest in the platform, but that would change if WP8 actually sells: Samsung could take the WP8 market by storm as they did with Android and Nokia would die anyway (and Microsoft wouldn't care).

Is it not time to invoke the backup plan? I bet they are working on it behind the scenes right now. They must be.

it's a loose-loose situation. judging by nokia's track records for the past couple of years. their best backup plan is unlikely to cut it. if they do have a brilliant backup plan, they wouldn't be fornicating with microsoft on top.

Why does everyone keep saying Android or Tizen or some other ridiculous option when the answer is right there in front of everyone?

Meego. They did it on the N9, it was a joy to use and worked extremely well. All reviewers agreed that it was one of the most enjoyable mobile operating systems to work with, the only problem was that it was sort of abandoned since Nokia said they wouldn't be releasing any more phones with Meego.

But, it wasn't abandoned. Nokia is keeping it as a backup plan. The Nokia N9 has continued to receive updates adding functionality and features to Meego. Why in the world would Nokia do that to a handset that wasn't successful and an OS that's going nowhere? The simple answer is just that it is Nokia's backup plan. When things get really bad they're able to go Meego whenever they want to. If it's done right it could be a seriously successful OS. I've tried it too, and it really is amazing to use and the first OS with actual proper multitasking.

The Windows Phone plan came after the plans for Meego. Meego was Nokia's big smartphone plan until Microsoft paid them to go with Windows Phone. It's there right in front of your eyes. The Lumia 800 shares most of the internals and the complete design with the Nokia N9. It was made to run Meego and it was supposed to be Nokia's flagship. When Microsoft came in with their plans Nokia took the N9, changed some small things and released it with Windows Phone, while reducing the production of the N9 as much as possible and only releasing it in a limited group of countries.

Ambroos said,
Why does everyone keep saying Android or Tizen or some other ridiculous option when the answer is right there in front of everyone?

Meego. They did it on the N9, it was a joy to use and worked extremely well. All reviewers agreed that it was one of the most enjoyable mobile operating systems to work with, the only problem was that it was sort of abandoned since Nokia said they wouldn't be releasing any more phones with Meego.

But, it wasn't abandoned. Nokia is keeping it as a backup plan. The Nokia N9 has continued to receive updates adding functionality and features to Meego. Why in the world would Nokia do that to a handset that wasn't successful and an OS that's going nowhere? The simple answer is just that it is Nokia's backup plan. When things get really bad they're able to go Meego whenever they want to. If it's done right it could be a seriously successful OS. I've tried it too, and it really is amazing to use and the first OS with actual proper multitasking.

The Windows Phone plan came after the plans for Meego. Meego was Nokia's big smartphone plan until Microsoft paid them to go with Windows Phone. It's there right in front of your eyes. The Lumia 800 shares most of the internals and the complete design with the Nokia N9. It was made to run Meego and it was supposed to be Nokia's flagship. When Microsoft came in with their plans Nokia took the N9, changed some small things and released it with Windows Phone, while reducing the production of the N9 as much as possible and only releasing it in a limited group of countries.

Meego would be interesting. specially if they can lure samsung over who is not pleased with android and wants to control it's own destiny. getting rid of google and microsoft would be the best thing that these OEMs could do. Just offer app compatibility and let google and motorolla fend off windows phone 8 and iOS while they do their own gig.

Ambroos said,
Why does everyone keep saying Android or Tizen or some other ridiculous option when the answer is right there in front of everyone?

Meego. They did it on the N9, it was a joy to use and worked extremely well. All reviewers agreed that it was one of the most enjoyable mobile operating systems to work with, the only problem was that it was sort of abandoned since Nokia said they wouldn't be releasing any more phones with Meego.

But, it wasn't abandoned. Nokia is keeping it as a backup plan. The Nokia N9 has continued to receive updates adding functionality and features to Meego. Why in the world would Nokia do that to a handset that wasn't successful and an OS that's going nowhere? The simple answer is just that it is Nokia's backup plan. When things get really bad they're able to go Meego whenever they want to. If it's done right it could be a seriously successful OS. I've tried it too, and it really is amazing to use and the first OS with actual proper multitasking.

The Windows Phone plan came after the plans for Meego. Meego was Nokia's big smartphone plan until Microsoft paid them to go with Windows Phone. It's there right in front of your eyes. The Lumia 800 shares most of the internals and the complete design with the Nokia N9. It was made to run Meego and it was supposed to be Nokia's flagship. When Microsoft came in with their plans Nokia took the N9, changed some small things and released it with Windows Phone, while reducing the production of the N9 as much as possible and only releasing it in a limited group of countries.


I thought they partnered with/gave it to Intel, who then discontinued it to work on Tizen? If they go with another in-house OS it's either going to be a highly-customized version of Android, a new version of Symbian, or Tizen, AFAICT.

neonspark said,

Meego would be interesting. specially if they can lure samsung over who is not pleased with android

Cough, cough......... Bada marketshare is bigger than WP....... Nokia goes Meego, Samsung goes Bada and Apple goes IOS............ cough, cough

Matthew_Thepc said,

I thought they partnered with/gave it to Intel, who then discontinued it to work on Tizen? If they go with another in-house OS it's either going to be a highly-customized version of Android, a new version of Symbian, or Tizen, AFAICT.

Meego yes, but what Nokia released with the N9 was actually Maemo, which was their own in-house OS.

ichi said,

Meego yes, but what Nokia released with the N9 was actually Maemo, which was their own in-house OS.


Nope, the N9 was released with Meego Harmattan. The N900 (which is quite a bit older) ran Maemo.

Ambroos said,

Nope, the N9 was released with Meego Harmattan. The N900 (which is quite a bit older) ran Maemo.

Meego Harmattan is not the same as Intel's Meego, it's Maemo6 with sort of a Meego compatibility layer.

Nokia only has 3 options right now.

1. Go with Android.
2. Go with Symbian
3. Wait for death just like RIM.

It's that simple and if *Lumia* is so called *popular* how come they can't even beat Samsung Galaxy S2 launch?

Chica Ami said,
Nokia only has 3 options right now.

1. Go with Android.
2. Go with Symbian
3. Wait for death just like RIM.

It's that simple and if *Lumia* is so called *popular* how come they can't even beat Samsung Galaxy S2 launch?

4) windows phone 8 and kick some android's ass.

neonspark said,

4) windows phone 8 and kick some android's ass.

Mango was supposed to shake things up.
Then it was Tango that was going to turn the tables.
Now it's WP8.

The target keeps moving.

ichi said,

Mango was supposed to shake things up.
Then it was Tango that was going to turn the tables.
Now it's WP8.

The target keeps moving.

Mango got people talking about Windows Phone. It got a lot of favorable press. It boosted the ecosystem considerably. I'm not sure what your definition of "shake things up" is, though.
Tango, a minor update, was never supposed to "turn the tables." Anyone telling you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
Apollo (WP8) is the one that's supposed to do that. No target has been moved.

Enron said,
Mango got people talking about Windows Phone. It got a lot of favorable press. It boosted the ecosystem considerably. I'm not sure what your definition of "shake things up" is, though.

Something like getting enough people to buy the devices to get WP out of the single digit marketshare, or at the very least get out of the last place in the ranking.

Or sell more than a dead-on-arrival device like the N9.

Enron said,

Tango, a minor update, was never supposed to "turn the tables." Anyone telling you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.
Apollo (WP8) is the one that's supposed to do that. No target has been moved.

Going by the comments of WP7 enthusiasts on this very forum (you know, the resident evangelists) Tango was supposed to skyrocket WP7's marketshare, an update that would fix all the things that made people not want those devices.

Here we are, one year later and there's no actively developed smartphone OS that sells less than WP.

Maybe WP8 will change that, but it could also be a Tango all over again.

Chica Ami said,
Nokia only has 3 options right now.

1. Go with Android die instantly.
2. Go with Symbian and eventually die like RIM
3. Wait for WP8, get out some killer phones and get to the top again.


Corrected that for you

I hope they make some decent WP and some droids, WP is so great.

Would be cool of they had the same hardware for WP8/Droid

Auzeras said,
I hope they make some decent WP and some droids, WP is so great.

Would be cool of they had the same hardware for WP8/Droid

like what samsung does? nothing is less cool.

Nokia would have to be bought by Google to be able to survive going over to Android. MS is helping them out. If they were solely Android they'd be in very serious trouble. WP is their best shot. The Lumias are doing nicely but their WP8 handsets have to hit a grandslam; quadcore (dual core very least), pureview camera, 32gb minimum (+ microSD), HD screens and stunning hardware.

I'm counting on them to wow me into choosing their device for my upgrade.

TLDR: They aren't going Android. If they did, they'd be dead in the water. MS will buy them before than happens.

laserfloyd said,
Nokia would have to be bought by Google to be able to survive going over to Android. MS is helping them out. If they were solely Android they'd be in very serious trouble. WP is their best shot. The Lumias are doing nicely but their WP8 handsets have to hit a grandslam; quadcore (dual core very least), pureview camera, 32gb minimum (+ microSD), HD screens and stunning hardware.

I'm counting on them to wow me into choosing their device for my upgrade.

TLDR: They aren't going Android. If they did, they'd be dead in the water. MS will buy them before than happens.

google would never buy nokia google is in its own sturggle for relevance. being left behind by facebook and struggling in tablets and making nearly zero profit from giving away android, google is indesperate need of a miracle if it is not to become the next company nobody cares about. risking antagonizing more phone OEMs and push them away from its web by buying a major phone OEM is not something google will ever do.

Chica Ami said,
If Nokia goes with Android they will be the 2nd rank after Samsung.

Nokia would never survive. The margins are way smaller, the hardware requirements would be much higher, price points lower, and development cost would go through the roof.

Chica Ami said,
If Nokia goes with Android they will be the 2nd rank after Samsung.

doubtful. they would just die a slow death. unable to outsell in the low end because of cheap chinese phones and unable to sell in the high end becaues they would be yet another android OEM with no differentiation going for the already saturated market of high end android phones.

android is the kiss of death.

Chica Ami said,
If Nokia goes with Android they will be the 2nd rank after Samsung.

They can still be 2nd rank after Samsung anyway if the later decides to put some actual efforts behind their WP devices with WP8, assuming the platform takes off enough to draw some attention from OEMs.

The fact that Nokia has a backup plan or is even discussing it is not a good sign. IMO, just shows they are either very uncertain about the future...or have little faith.

Its good to have backup plans...but keep those to yourself until needed.

techbeck said,
The fact that Nokia has a backup plan or is even discussing it is not a good sign. IMO, just shows they are either very uncertain about the future...or have little faith.

Its good to have backup plans...but keep those to yourself until needed.


They're just trying to reassure investors I'm sure. Off the cuff is the most effective way to do this. Then they can focus on saving the company instead of wasting time explaining things to tech bloggers that think they could run a multi-national tech company.

M_Lyons10 said,

Then they can focus on saving the company instead of wasting time explaining things to tech bloggers that think they could run a multi-national tech company.

Just my opinion as I stated. Dont want to know how to run a company that size.

Matthew_Thepc said,
hmm, I'd think they would go with Tizen over Android

At this point it's too late anyway. The company is in a perpetual death spiral.

simplezz said,

At this point it's too late anyway. The company is in a perpetual death spiral.


HAHAHA. "someone" learned a new word...

simplezz said,
At this point it's too late anyway. The company is in a perpetual death spiral.

I heard the same about Apple back in the 90s - how about today?

Miuku. said,

I heard the same about Apple back in the 90s - how about today?

MS saved Apple, as MS is currently saving Nokia.
People forget, Nokia is the only OEM that has 'special' access to WP.
WP will rise, especially with WP8. I see allot around me that are just waiting for WP8, even when WP7 came out. As it was already known WP7 was going to be a transition OS. Just like Windows 8 will be for desktops. (altho Windows 8 already has the kernel it needs ).
And when WP will rise. Nokia will have an advantage over others (outside building the most sturdiest phones in history and seen the lumia 900 is the new 3310)

Shadowzz said,

MS saved Apple, as MS is currently saving Nokia.

But Apple didn't get to where they are now being a MS OEM. Other than MS throwing money both cases have nothing to do with each other.

M_Lyons10 said,
Just a statement to reassure investors until they get over the hump and things begin to improve. No mystery here at all.

Actually these kind of statements obtain the opposite results and only accelerate the pressure on companies that issue them.
But.... whatever.......

M_Lyons10 said,
until they get over the hump and things begin to improve.

Hump? That's not exactly how I'd describe a death spiral.

simplezz said,

Hump? That's not exactly how I'd describe a death spiral.


It's hardly a death spiral. They were very upfront about expecting a couple of lean years before they could start to grow the company again. You don't turn around something like this in a year. Pleas tell me business doesn't confuse you that badly...

M_Lyons10 said,

It's hardly a death spiral. They were very upfront about expecting a couple of lean years before they could start to grow the company again. You don't turn around something like this in a year. Pleas tell me business doesn't confuse you that badly...

Most of the people here at Neowin have years of business running experience by the looks of it.

Everyone who says Android is so fanboy they don't realise that Nokia would just be yet another Android phone maker in the endless sea of Android phone makers.

If they went with Android instead of WP they would already be dead.

Oh and Android sucks so much it needs 4 cores to be as smooth as WP7 with one core and even then it still lags..

PmRd said,
Everyone who says Android is so fanboy they don't realise that Nokia would just be yet another Android phone maker in the endless sea of Android phone makers.

If they went with Android instead of WP they would already be dead.


Indeed. I cannot understand how clueless people can be. The margins are WAY better with Windows Phone. It's their only real opportunity to survive. Android would have been worse for the company than clutching to Symbian.

PmRd said,
Oh and Android sucks so much it needs 4 cores to be as smooth as WP7 with one core and even then it still lags..

Tried ICS? Smooth as hell when it was STOCK on my GNEX and even smoother now since I rooted it. And stock Jelly Bean is even better and even smoother than stock ICS. Yea, Google has had issues with its OS performance, but that will soon be a thing of the past if it keeps getting smoother after every release. Then people will need something else to bitch about.

And from all the newer phones being sold today, the Android OS is running really smooth with little to no lag. And I will take a split second lag and being able to do many more things any day of the week.

techbeck said,

Tried ICS? Smooth as hell when it was STOCK on my GNEX and even smoother now since I rooted it. And stock Jelly Bean is even better and even smoother than stock ICS. Yea, Google has had issues with its OS performance, but that will soon be a thing of the past if it keeps getting smoother after every release. Then people will need something else to bitch about.

And from all the newer phones being sold today, the Android OS is running really smooth with little to no lag. And I will take a split second lag and being able to do many more things any day of the week.

ICS is a lag central. enough said.

neonspark said,

ICS is a lag central. enough said.

haha, whatever dude. I use it every day for the past 6 months. 3 of those months were on stock ICS. Runs smooth as hell. And I am no the only one who doesnt have any issues.

Android lag is just something for non android people to bash the platform about...or by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

techbeck said,

haha, whatever dude. I use it every day for the past 6 months. 3 of those months were on stock ICS. Runs smooth as hell. And I am no the only one who doesnt have any issues.

Android lag is just something for non android people to bash the platform about...or by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

Must be those extra cores they put in there for you, surprised they only put 4 cores in there.

Toysoldier said,

Must be those extra cores they put in there for you, surprised they only put 4 cores in there.

Wow, lots of people not knowing what they are talking about....

I currently have a dual core Galaxy Nexus. No damn 4 cores. I even stated I am using a GNEX and apparently you didnt read. Either that, or you do not know what you are talking about. My bet is for the later.

Anyway, GNEX smooth as hell. My old first gen Galaxy phone currently runs smooth on ICS and was smooth on GB (stock). And more cores on devices are just a progression in technology. WP will have more cores eventually and Apple products do currently.

techbeck said,

even smoother now since I rooted it.

My point has been proven. What mods do you have to do for WP to be smooth as butter?

PmRd said,

My point has been proven. What mods do you have to do for WP to be smooth as butter?

You have not proven jack. I said it was smooth BEFORE but even more after I rooted it. Rooting just allows for even better performance (and much much more) but can cause issues. OS builds from the manufacturer are build for stability and that is just what ICS is, stable...stock.

And your point was that Android needed more cores to be fast. Guess that goes for iOS as well. And really wasnt much of a point since I have had smooth stock experiences with single core android phones as well. Guess thats because I buy high end phones while others dont do their research and buy the cheaper models because there was a sale. But whose fault is that....

PmRd said,
Everyone who says Android is so fanboy they don't realise that Nokia would just be yet another Android phone maker in the endless sea of Android phone makers.

If they went with Android instead of WP they would already be dead.

Oh and Android sucks so much it needs 4 cores to be as smooth as WP7 with one core and even then it still lags..

wp7 devices is so dead they wont be upgraded to wp8

AnarKhy said,

wp7 devices is so dead they wont be upgraded to wp8

Microsoft will never let WP die. The only reason it was not as successful as they wanted is because the people who sell the phones are brainwashed by android and apple

PmRd said,

Microsoft will never let WP die. The only reason it was not as successful as they wanted is because the people who sell the phones are brainwashed by android and apple

Wow, talk about clueless. The reason why WP has not been successful yet is that it has to PROVE itself. Why should stores/carriers sell the phones if no one will buy them. Same thing happened to the iPhone, and Androids. Not to mention that these things dont happen over night and success takes time.

So, point is, if/when people start seeing money/profit in WP...more support will come and more people will start selling/using them. Really not a hard concept to grasp.

techbeck said,

Tried ICS? Smooth as hell when it was STOCK on my GNEX and even smoother now since I rooted it. And stock Jelly Bean is even better and even smoother than stock ICS. Yea, Google has had issues with its OS performance, but that will soon be a thing of the past if it keeps getting smoother after every release. Then people will need something else to bitch about.

And from all the newer phones being sold today, the Android OS is running really smooth with little to no lag. And I will take a split second lag and being able to do many more things any day of the week.

Sadly most reviews DO NOT agree with you...
http://wmpoweruser.com/quadcor...-s3-still-said-to-be-laggy/

techbeck said,

... I have had smooth stock experiences with single core android phones as well. Guess thats because I buy high end phones while others dont do their research and buy the cheaper models because there was a sale. But whose fault is that....

Don't dig yourself any deeper lol. You're basically yourself confirming PmRd's point that either you need to root your Android device or throw a ton of cash on a phone to get smooth experience. Tell you what? You do all your "research" and bring the biggest baddest priciest Android phone, root it whatever and i'll bring the cheapest WP off the shelf. It'll still be faster than yours

gzAsher said,

Don't dig yourself any deeper lol. You're basically yourself confirming PmRd's point that either you need to root your Android device or throw a ton of cash on a phone to get smooth experience. Tell you what? You do all your "research" and bring the biggest baddest priciest Android phone, root it whatever and i'll bring the cheapest WP off the shelf. It'll still be faster than yours

You are confusing smooth shell animations with speed.

On a side note, my phone is a Nexus S: single core, didn't cost a ton of cash and is not rooted. Animations on the shell are sometimes not as smooth as those of iOS or WP, but as a whole it doesn't feel laggy at all.

It could be better, but that doesn't mean that it isn't good.

gzAsher said,

Don't dig yourself any deeper lol. You're basically yourself confirming PmRd's point that either you need to root your Android device or throw a ton of cash on a phone to get smooth experience. Tell you what? You do all your "research" and bring the biggest baddest priciest Android phone, root it whatever and i'll bring the cheapest WP off the shelf. It'll still be faster than yours

His phone was about phones needing more cores not about the price. It pays to read a bit. And I mentioned several times that I have experienced smooth performance on several of my android phones that were STOCK.

And not all cheap android phones have crappy hardware. Again, it pays to read.

neonspark said,

ICS is a lag central. enough said.

Root... Imagine how much Google is laughing now!
XDA is doing their job as they CAN'T deliver a good products and it is the same pattern from Android 1.0.
They release the source code, The Community Works for them, profit.
Don'T be such a sheep.

boumboqc said,

Root... Imagine how much Google is laughing now!
XDA is doing their job as they CAN'T deliver a good products and it is the same pattern from Android 1.0.
They release the source code, The Community Works for them, profit.
Don'T be such a sheep.

Yes.. Because everyone knows about XDA and how to flash their phones

I'm pretty sure that most people who know how to do that also know how to pirate apps. Profit? Lol

Your post is pure ignorance

I'd assume it's still probably Meego. They never said they were dropping Meego, just that it'll be staying as a pet project of theirs for the next few years. Gives them enough time to polish it if need be whilst they get something out of the door with Windows Phone in the present.

~Johnny said,
I'd assume it's still probably Meego. They never said they were dropping Meego, just that it'll be staying as a pet project of theirs for the next few years. Gives them enough time to polish it if need be whilst they get something out of the door with Windows Phone in the present.

Meego is now Tizen, so maybe Tizen is their backup plan?

Here's a list of successful Android OEMs: Samsung.

See why “just switch to Android” isn't a great plan. It didn't help HTC get the One X on all 4 US carriers like Samsung did. It didn't help Motorola escape the dungeon that is Verizon and release compelling phones on other carriers. It hasn't helped LG which everyone laughs at here in the US. It hasn't helped Huawei or ZTE who have zero phones on the big 4.

Carrier partnerships is the reason why a phone succeeds here in the states, and just switching platforms doesn't magically make them better. Oh, and carrier reps have to want to actually SELL you that phone, otherwise they'll steer you towards what THEY like.

Nokia was a top seller for years despite having nearly zero presence in the US. While it's a nice pie to take a piece of, the US market is not critical for survival.

dagamer34 said,
Here's a list of successful Android OEMs: Samsung.

HTC and Motorola have done well in the past.

dagamer34 said,

See why “just switch to Android” isn't a great plan.

And that somehow justifies going WP exclusive when the OS only has 1% marketshare?

simplezz said,

And that somehow justifies going WP exclusive when the OS only has 1% marketshare?


...NOW. No OS gains market share right out of the gate. I just cannot believe how short sighted people on here can be. There is just no way everyone is THAT clueless...

simplezz said,

HTC and Motorola have done well in the past.

And that somehow justifies going WP exclusive when the OS only has 1% marketshare?

motorolla has been losing money like a bleeding patient thanks to android. HTC is getting the lights kicked out by samsung but still in the fight just barrely. nokia with its financial troubles and if it were to lose the dollars its gets from MSFT would be dead in a year if it touched android.

dagamer34 said,
Here's a list of successful Android OEMs: Samsung.

See why “just switch to Android” isn't a great plan. It didn't help HTC get the One X on all 4 US carriers like Samsung did. It didn't help Motorola escape the dungeon that is Verizon and release compelling phones on other carriers. It hasn't helped LG which everyone laughs at here in the US. It hasn't helped Huawei or ZTE who have zero phones on the big 4.

Carrier partnerships is the reason why a phone succeeds here in the states, and just switching platforms doesn't magically make them better. Oh, and carrier reps have to want to actually SELL you that phone, otherwise they'll steer you towards what THEY like.

Are you aware that the US are just one market among many, more profitable ones?

M_Lyons10 said,

...NOW. No OS gains market share right out of the gate. I just cannot believe how short sighted people on here can be. There is just no way everyone is THAT clueless...

Hardly right out of the gate........ Almost two years......

M_Lyons10 said,

...NOW. No OS gains market share right out of the gate. I just cannot believe how short sighted people on here can be. There is just no way everyone is THAT clueless...

yeah, except that nokia is loosing money, market and jobs waiting for wp to become a success. Microsoft doesnt depend on wp, nokia does. they are acting stupid making phones with a os no one is buying. at least put one device with android to test the market. or else nokia might go bankrupt.

AnarKhy said,

yeah, except that nokia is loosing money, market and jobs waiting for wp to become a success. Microsoft doesnt depend on wp, nokia does. they are acting stupid making phones with a os no one is buying. at least put one device with android to test the market. or else nokia might go bankrupt.

How can you not understand, MS has invested a ton of money into Nokia at this point to take on WP. If Nokia so much as even touches Android MS will pull its funds and thats it for Nokia, they can't go back to Belle anymore as they announced there will be no more updates for Symbian...ever.

M_Lyons10 said,

...NOW. No OS gains market share right out of the gate. I just cannot believe how short sighted people on here can be. There is just no way everyone is THAT clueless...

Windows Phone has been out for two years, there's only so long MS can continue to use that excuse.

ichi said,
Nokia was a top seller for years despite having nearly zero presence in the US. While it's a nice pie to take a piece of, the US market is not critical for survival.

Exactly, which is why people only looking at US sales numbers for WP7 or Nokia are missing the actual impact of the device.

thenetavenger said,
Exactly, which is why people only looking at US sales numbers for WP7 or Nokia are missing the actual impact of the device.

Indeed, but so far the actual global impact of the device (and the OS as a whole) is a marketshare that lags behing that of pretty much every other smartphone OS known to man, and that's counting WP7 and WindowsMobile together.


the company in fact has a "contingency plan" in case their Windows Phone 8 products don't sell as anticipated.

Sell themselves to Microsoft for peanuts? Because that's all they can do at this point.

What they should have done is release WP, Android, Symbian, and Tizen devices. Instead Nokia commits harakiri by going exclusive.

simplezz said,

Sell themselves to Microsoft for peanuts? Because that's all they can do at this point.

What they should have done is release WP, Android, Symbian, and Tizen devices. Instead Nokia commits harakiri by going exclusive.


How are they supposed to manufacture devices with four different operating systems? Two OS's for a single manufacturer is a lot, let alone four.

XMac said,

How are they supposed to manufacture devices with four different operating systems? Two OS's for a single manufacturer is a lot, let alone four.

Agreed, and with economies of scale working against them at that point there'd be no way to make them profitable... They need at this point to leverage as best they can on a single platform in order to make profit. Sales alone are far less important than PROFIT...

They should really make both WP & Android phones like others. A Nokia UI on top of a controlled Android ecosystem could bring Nokia on par with Android manufacturers.

yowanvista said,
They should really make both WP & Android phones like others. A Nokia UI on top of a controlled Android ecosystem could bring Nokia on par with Android manufacturers.

In short term, maybe... But they would also get lost in the 'I'm a droid' crowd that others have found themselves.

There is also the 'work' that Android requires, which would be another workload that would be as big as their own OS. Seriously, Android is magical free open source la la la, but it requires a ton of developer work and changes to run even half way well on a device, and that is using generic unoptimized code, as fully optimized code and Android do NOT exist currently on any device.

Nokia got the support of the biggest technology company in history, and didn't have to deal with a slow and crap OS model. That was a win win. Free money, less work, better product for customers.

(When the latest Android device with 4 cores is getting reviews like, "UI is laggy compared to WP7 and iOS." There are many fundamental problems with the OS.)

Do a general search for Android issues and 'fixes' and 'speed' improvements. There are 100s of known issues with code in the shipping version of Android that Google doesn't give a crap about, and there is a whole market of Apps and ROMs that try to fix them and other fundamental flaws in how Android works.

When there are modifications just to keep Android from closing the phone and messaging apps should be the first hint that it kind of sucks. Even Windows 3.0 didn't close a game, let alone a key service/app/feature like SMS, and that was an old OS model from 20 years ago.

thenetavenger said,

When there are modifications just to keep Android from closing the phone and messaging apps should be the first hint that it kind of sucks. Even Windows 3.0 didn't close a game, let alone a key service/app/feature like SMS, and that was an old OS model from 20 years ago.

It would be cool if nothing ever crashed or freezed on WP7 but a quick Google seach disagrees with that.

I had always hoped nokia would come up with a customized android experience that was of a better quality than whatever motorola, lg, htc, sony or samsung offer on their phones. i cant stand touch wiz

Every smart company must have a contingency plans. However its probably a bit unhealthy to mention them like that.

qdave said,
Every smart company must have a contingency plans. However its probably a bit unhealthy to mention them like that.

Actually is healthy to mention them when Stock prices are concerning investors. They should also be talking about the support Microsoft has extended to them in every interview, even if makes them sound dependent on Microsoft to build up stock prices.

AR556 said,
"contingency plan" = make Android phones.

that's not a contingency, that's acknowledging that they're just "some" phone maker - with android Nokia can kiss goodbye to all of their services as there's no place for those next to Google's craps

i do hope that Nokia with andorid os never happens at all - we don't need another manufacturer for that mediorce mobile os... and either way unicorns will start falling from the sky before Microsoft lets go of WP's hand, they need a complete ecosystem, can't just plug a hole on it with crappy android or Apple's iOS, so no, there's no way WP is going anywhere - sorry android fans

Android...It is inevitable, should have went with Android to begin with, I think most people knew WP would be DOA. I would love to see Android running on Nokia's hardware.

Sonne said,
Android...It is inevitable, should have went with Android to begin with, I think most people knew WP would be DOA. I would love to see Android running on Nokia's hardware.

They wouldn't survive if they went Android. WP is their best shot.

TechJunkie81 said,

They wouldn't survive if they went Android. WP is their best shot.

The volume of smartphones they would be shipping would almost certainly surge, so much so would probably surpass HTC as the 2nd place Android maker.

thealexweb said,

The volume of smartphones they would be shipping would almost certainly surge, so much so would probably surpass HTC as the 2nd place Android maker.

Of course with Android you'd get volume, but Nokia would not have been able to put out quality devices with the margins they are reaching for with Android in it's then form. They wouldn't have had nearly as sweet a deal with Google, if any, as the one they have with Microsoft. They get quality software that will run well on low and mid range hardware and can focus on their own software, hardware, and location services. They would have had to invested a significant amount of resources to only attempt to get their devices to consistently keep up with iPhone performance wise. All while lacking the aid through such a transition and market opportunity they receive from Microsoft.

Nokia's best shot was with Windows Phone.

wixostrix said,

Of course with Android you'd get volume, but Nokia would not have been able to put out quality devices with the margins they are reaching for with Android in it's then form. They wouldn't have had nearly as sweet a deal with Google, if any, as the one they have with Microsoft. They get quality software that will run well on low and mid range hardware and can focus on their own software, hardware, and location services. They would have had to invested a significant amount of resources to only attempt to get their devices to consistently keep up with iPhone performance wise. All while lacking the aid through such a transition and market opportunity they receive from Microsoft.

Nokia's best shot was with Windows Phone.


Absolutely. With Windows Phone Nokia can be much more profitable with less sales. HTC even commented that they were seeing much more profit through Windows Phone than their Android devices.

I am still absolutely amazed at the short sightedness of people on these tech sites and thank god they are not in positions to run a company like this. They would run them into the ground. Nokia knew they would have to weather some lean years, and that shouldn't surprise anyone.

M_Lyons10 said,

Absolutely. With Windows Phone Nokia can be much more profitable with less sales. HTC even commented that they were seeing much more profit through Windows Phone than their Android devices.

If they were so much on an agreement with that statement (making good money off WP - more than they could with Android [from HTC]), then whats the point of even thinking of a 'backup' plan? 'IF' nokia were doing really good with gains, I dont see why they would even think about 'going another route' [-maybe if things dont get better? With WP8]. They are showing skepticism it would seem. Why?

Can we get a Samsung input? They create both, yet are on fire with both. Weird.

Sonne said,
Android...It is inevitable, should have went with Android to begin with, I think most people knew WP would be DOA. I would love to see Android running on Nokia's hardware.

android would be the kiss of death. then they would become another comodity OEM with no differentiation and zero chance of survival.

thealexweb said,

The volume of smartphones they would be shipping would almost certainly surge, so much so would probably surpass HTC as the 2nd place Android maker.

doubtful. android volume is in low end phones and that is taken up by junk OEMs and phones nobody cares about but sell in emergin markets. nokia would die a slow death with android being eclipsed by much larger samsung in the high end and being ousold in the low end by cheap chinese phones.

android would be the kiss of death for nokia.

M_Lyons10 said,

I am still absolutely amazed at the short sightedness of people on these tech sites and thank god they are not in positions to run a company like this. They would run them into the ground. Nokia knew they would have to weather some lean years, and that shouldn't surprise anyone.

Correction: the short sightedness of Nokia. They're the ones who are saying they need a back up plan to their last resort because they don't feel comfortable with it. Which is why the company is running itself into the ground.

M_Lyons10 said,

Absolutely. With Windows Phone Nokia can be much more profitable with less sales. HTC even commented that they were seeing much more profit through Windows Phone than their Android devices.

Source Please?

JesseJ said,

Correction: the short sightedness of Nokia. They're the ones who are saying they need a back up plan to their last resort because they don't feel comfortable with it. Which is why the company is running itself into the ground.


They are trying to calm shareholders, nothing more. That does not show short sightedness. It's quite clear from the off the cuff nature of the statement. They just wanted to reassure investors.

NightCrawlerInfinity said,

Source Please?


I'm on mobile, but it was discussed a great deal last year when they made the statement. It shouldn't be that hard to Google. I wood for you, but don't have the time to do so right now, sorry.

M_Lyons10 said,

I'm on mobile, but it was discussed a great deal last year when they made the statement. It shouldn't be that hard to Google. I wood for you, but don't have the time to do so right now, sorry.

I'm on mobile too. I just Googled it. I read articles that said HTC hate Windows Phone. One was quoted as they are not surprised by the lack luster sales. Sorry we are reading two different things. I closed the page for that link buit it should be too hard to "Bing It".

neonspark said,
android would be the kiss of death. then they would become another comodity OEM with no differentiation and zero chance of survival.

There are plenty of things that could do to differentiate themselves e.g. better cameras, faster updates, no OS customizations (like Google's Nexus phones/tablets) etc.

TechJunkie81 said,

They wouldn't survive if they went Android. WP is their best shot.

Everyone is making money with android, look at samsung, htc, sony... Nokia is acting stupid being a microsoft pet. Their business is to make and sell phones, the market today is divided and wp is on last position, way behind ios and android. Nokia is loosing money and jobs.

AnarKhy said,

Everyone is making money with android, look at samsung, htc, sony... Nokia is acting stupid being a microsoft pet. Their business is to make and sell phones, the market today is divided and wp is on last position, way behind ios and android. Nokia is loosing money and jobs.

what are you smoking? samsung is the ONLY android manufacturer making a profit (a small profit at that). HTC's revenue decreased last quarter and everyone else's revenues were never even good. Don't be so uninformed.

Sonne said,
Android...It is inevitable, should have went with Android to begin with, I think most people knew WP would be DOA. I would love to see Android running on Nokia's hardware.

Really? Ya, cause one thing the world KNOWS is that Android is an awesome OS. Oh wait, no they all think it is crap, but it works good enough.

Nokia was wanting to get away from the full time development work, which is why they dumped their own OS. Android requires full time development, which the Android geeks do not seem to understand, and it is a horrid OS model, that they also do not seem to grasp. However if they run some bastardized variant of cron and vi then Android must be magical, because these are things that every average phone user needs.

We tried to kill of Unix 20 years ago, and the freaking crap model is still infesting devices and fostering ignorance.

Really smart people in the 1980s and early 1990s designed OS models, architectures, and technology to get past all the sins of the past, one of them being Unix, and yet we have a reduced variation of it today as a champion phone OS. WTF happened?

TechJunkie81 said,

They wouldn't survive if they went Android. WP is their best shot.

what if the "contingency plan" contains something like: Update to Android?

it is possible to support the two on one Hardware system?

kidjenius said,

what are you smoking? samsung is the ONLY android manufacturer making a profit (a small profit at that). HTC's revenue decreased last quarter and everyone else's revenues were never even good. Don't be so uninformed.

Just because it decreased doesn't mean they didn't make any money. So what are you smoking?

If no one is making money off Android, then what is Windows Phone to HTC? A Charity?

Geranium_Z__NL said,

what if the "contingency plan" contains something like: Update to Android?

it is possible to support the two on one Hardware system?

Yes it can. But it won't happen.

Nokia dodged a bullet with Windows phone, with google becoming more evil every day.

They got screwed by Microsoft though not supporting their existing phones being upgraded to WP8

M_Lyons10 said,

They are trying to calm shareholders, nothing more. That does not show short sightedness. It's quite clear from the off the cuff nature of the statement. They just wanted to reassure investors.

If I were a shareholder I would take my money and run right about now. It shows that the company isn't confident with the decision of partnering up with Windows Phone and Microsoft. If something is successful enough, then there is no need to say don't we have a Plan B. You don't hear HTC, or Apple saying that.

JesseJ said,

Correction: the short sightedness of Nokia. They're the ones who are saying they need a back up plan to their last resort because they don't feel comfortable with it. Which is why the company is running itself into the ground.

Every smart business has a contingency plan for if the things they are planning don't pan out. Having a backup plan does not show lack of confidence, it shows preparedness. Nokia didn't just come out and say it, they were asked, and have been asked over and over again since the partnership was announced.