Steve Jobs is closing the door with Lion

It appears that Apple is ready to do to Mac OS what they've done to their iPhone and iPad - lock out applications that do not pay to be in their “Mac Apps Store.” Gawker reports that in order for developers to put their applications in the new App store that they will have to submit the programs for Apple review and concede to giving Apple 30% of their revenue from sales. If developers refuse, they will lose the easy accessibility and automatic update features.

In essence, Jobs wants to make your computer an appliance.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. The whole Apple mantra is that it “just works.” This will definitely help push the Mac even further in that direction. When you buy something from the new Mac Apps Store, just like from the iTunes store, you know that it will run flawlessly on your device. On the other hand, you lose a lot of flexibility of competing software - it's their way or the highway. In addition, it gives Apple a lot of power to censor what is displayed on their device.

While this move might make sense for the people who don't think of technology as anything but a tool, it could also push some users away from Mac and over to a more open platform like Windows or even the “dead” Linux. The question is whether users want a computer or an appliance. Jobs is betting that most people want something that works as easily as their microwave rather than having something that's versatile but more work to manage.

It should be noted that you will still be able to load programs in the traditional sense, but if you want to have your software in the App store, then you will have to play by Apple's rules. 

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the problem is whether we can thrust Jobs that the app store will not be the exclusive way to install apps in the future...

"It should be noted that you will still be able to load programs in the traditional sense, but if you want to have your software in the App store, then you will have to play by Apple's rules. "

Stupid article designed to generate page-views and flamewars, very few people seem to have noticed this slipped in at the bottom.

Well, I'm already seeing the discussions, latter in 2011 when windows 8 comes out

- "What do you think about windows 8?"
- "bah, it's a fail! It doesn't have an App store..."

Apple is in a different world and thinks the whole world is going to give their freedom of OS in PC to apple. What a BS thinking they've. The whole Tech community is crying Windows itself is a closed one, and they love to move to Linux. But, there's no Big Tech co. till today is ready support Linux in true spirit in a way what the world wants. I feel that's going to come from Google in the form of Chromium OS.

Chromium is going to give a fitting competition in the PC market to Microsoft, hence Balmer also told, selling their next OS is going to be a challenge. MS knew it's coming. But, Apple still lives in it's virtual world and thinking the're going to make PC market a closed one like iOS/iPhone. iPhone/iOS market is already stagnated in the last Qtr, even came down 0.4 percent, which's going to either be in the same level or go down. The real completion is going to be Windows and Chromium in the Cloud PC revolution.

The pity here is, again Apple is miscalculating. I'm not telling Apple will go down, they'll still be able to crack PC usage with different kind/type of devices with iOS applicances, the same way what they've done using iPod, iPhone, iPad, recent low cost (sill apple product) iTV. But, they fail to realize the future like Google/MS.

jinishans said,
Apple is in a different world and thinks the whole world is going to give their freedom of OS in PC to apple. What a BS thinking they've. The whole Tech community is crying Windows itself is a closed one, and they love to move to Linux. But, there's no Big Tech co. till today is ready support Linux in true spirit in a way what the world wants. I feel that's going to come from Google in the form of Chromium OS.

Chromium is going to give a fitting competition in the PC market to Microsoft, hence Balmer also told, selling their next OS is going to be a challenge. MS knew it's coming. But, Apple still lives in it's virtual world and thinking the're going to make PC market a closed one like iOS/iPhone. iPhone/iOS market is already stagnated in the last Qtr, even came down 0.4 percent, which's going to either be in the same level or go down. The real completion is going to be Windows and Chromium in the Cloud PC revolution.

The pity here is, again Apple is miscalculating. I'm not telling Apple will go down, they'll still be able to crack PC usage with different kind/type of devices with iOS applicances, the same way what they've done using iPod, iPhone, iPad, recent low cost (sill apple product) iTV. But, they fail to realize the future like Google/MS.


I agree that Chromium OS is going to be the first real competition to MS in quite a while, but I don't think it's going to be an all purpose OS initially so it'll be a while till we see it as a real threat.

However if you read this article properly Apple also aren't locking down their OS, they're just introducing an app store/repo. You can still choose not to use the repo, and install custom code however the hell you like.

I stopped reading when you said Linux is dead, and not just because I use Linux, but because its an opinion with no basis on fact.

A few things:
1st. The 30% cut is for low cost apps that have difficulties to get attention over the net.
2nd. We hope to get a better Mac AppStore than the one on iPhone where if you want something, good search, you will come back in a few hours!
3rd. What we don't want is Apple locking down OS X to the AppStore, if doesn't happen everything is ok.
4. A MacBook Pro can run Windows if you are not ok with OSX rules. Apple computers are most of the time well designed so if you want to run Windows on it, go for it!

After saying Apple products are so not for me, and that i will never ever get an apple PC (possibility 0%), well, last month i started thinking of getting an Apple MacBook (Possibility 1%), now i am back to 0%

If MS was wanting to do this, (looking at code, and charging 30%) the internet nerds would have the torches and pitchforks. Oh Wait they do already!

If you don't believe this is wrong you are in a ****ing denial stage. Developers sooner or later will be forced into submitting their applications to the AppStore. Why? Well, because if you don't you won't be able to compete with the other indie developers and that means losing more than the shameful 30%. There's a simple reason and that's because users don't care about the methods of getting their applications and if it's easier for them then they'll just take the easier way, who wants to read reviews when you can simply download software that it's already rated with 1-5 stars? lmao.

How is Steve Jobs closing the door with Lion by still letting you do what you've always been able to do and just giving developers and users one more distribution path? How does giving a person more choice about where they get their apps make a computer an appliance?

And of course the App Store is going to be curated. Would you prefer an Android style marketplace with next to no curation? Hello malware!

I'm sorry, but this article is just poor.

Elliott said,
I'm sorry, but this article is just poor.
Exactly. This is one of the reasons why I never visit any of Gawker's websites because they are always posting articles which are sensationalist BS. Tabloid journalism at its worst.

The App store is just another way for Apple to make some more money for themselves. But we can definably see at least 1/3 of all apps from the iphone and ipad to hit iMac computers, but then I think of app fragmentation in a way because there are like 4 different resolutions to run on and each platform has a stronger GPU so Im going to see either that we going to have 4 different app stores or a confusion of apps, so much for Apple for bashing Google about 4 app stores and fragmentation.

I think a lot of people are missing the point.

First thing is that internet download speeds will be increasing immensely within the next 1-3 years. Next thing is that I am betting that eventually there will be some distinction between the "Pro" apple models i.e. Mac Pro, MacBook Pro vs totally consumer (macbook etc).

The majority of people are not professional users. Even the ones that are even in the corporate space seem to be really liking the iPad which is an iOS device. There will probably be some limited way to continue to install programs the regular on professional macs either way when that time comes but the door will not even be shut until at least OS X 10.8 or 11.

This (Lion) is just an interim step. We are at least 1 1/2 to 2 years away from the OS after Lion. A lot can and WILL take place within this span of time.

Who knows... they may even end up putting out an "iMac Pro". The non-pro devices may not even have optical or moving drives at all. Maybe the new MacBook Air is a preview of all the consumer mac devices with instant-on and internal flash memory right on the circuit board. Cloud computing is where everything is going and Apple is not building that huge datacenter for nothing. Can you say "Apple TV" - as in the real one with the 45 inch screen and everything...HDTV size and style...

30% of revenue - Holy Crap! That's downright extortion. that's not even profit. you can make nothing on the product and still have to pay 30%.

Grex said,
30% of revenue - Holy Crap! That's downright extortion. that's not even profit. you can make nothing on the product and still have to pay 30%.

And what part of a developer's revenue typically goes to web site hosting, credit card processing, and other overhead? In many cases, it is probably roughly that percentage, or in some cases even more, depending on the cost of the app.

I suppose from a biz & marketing perspective it might make sense to go the Mickie D route as so many retailers have done -- ideally everyone has the same experience at every location, with no need to learn menus or store layouts etc. The danger is that you're locking the customer into one experience, sometimes making them more likely to go to your competition. You're also reinforcing the idea or perception that one bad experience sours you on the entire company, because you've made everything seem just 1 part of the whole, rather than individual products/services/locations. I think Microsoft would like to be the same way, but they've been unable to so far because manufacturers & customers didn't want to be locked in -- they've shown they learned this lesson with their win7 marketing.

There's also a danger IMHO of becoming just an appliance manufacturer -- it makes it much easier for other companies to directly compete. Look at how many smartphones target the iPhone. Sure they don't always do as good a job, aren't always as nice a product, but remember, they don't have to be. Competitors don't have to invest as much &/or create the market in order to turn a profit.

If your comment was removed and you did not receive a warning, kudos. DO NOT post any more comments attacking the author or other users. If you cannot read an article without doing so you should choose another topic.

Why is this bad? Because many people buy Macs because of either the simplicity or because they simply don't know a lot about computers. That's been one of Apple's marketing points. The problem is, when they want new software it's easier just to buy it from the store that's already built in to their computer. This means that, in a sense, the Mac App Store will be "the" place to get your apps.

Great, huh?

Except now it will practically force developers to not only design and code their software so that Apple will approve it, they will HAVE to fork over 30% of their profits to Apple.

In summary, it will effectively make it so if you want to sell Mac software you must conform to Apple's policies and pay them for the privilege of selling it. In my eyes, that makes Microsoft's antitrust violations look benign.

And for most developers, it means more people will buy their apps.

The average user right now steers clear of third party apps. Generally, on an average person's Mac, the only third party apps you'll see are Firefox and Office (and maybe crap like Limewire).

This doesn't make developers that can't adhere to the guidelines any less lucrative. People won't just stop using the old ways of finding apps. However, it does give developers that can adhere a great new path to a user's desktop.

I must admit that when Jobs mentioned the app store in the keynote I cringed. But think about it, the app store is not the end all solution for installing apps. Finder is still in Lion, there's still an Applications folder, there's still a dock. It's not like you can't install anything that isn't in the app store, that just wouldn't make sense.

People need to take a step back and calm down. This isn't going to revolutionize the application install process as we know it. It works on Linux (not everybody is familiar with apt-get and the repository names of a program) and you can still install things from source code and terminal. On a mac, I'm sure you can still download a .dmg and drag a program to Applications or run a .mpkg.

I wonder how Amazon and other Software resellers like that move? And what if a program that took years to create and millions of dollars won't be approved by Apple? What about support? Does Apple take responsibility if its app store gets cracked and my Apps are stolen? I could go on and on but finding many positives about that business model is not easy.

"It appears that Apple is ready to lock out applications that do not pay to be in their Mac Apps Store.”

Ok, explain something to me. Can I sell an app on the "Mac App Store" and pay Apple nothing? Or can I, but only if the app is free?

Or tell me -> Is this article really saying that if I try to sell Mac apps outside of the App store, say I try to sell them on my own web site, that Apple will send commands out to people's Mac computers to deactivate those apps so they stop running on those Mac's?

"Steve Jobs is closing the door with Lion"

What is Lion?

By this, I see Lion failing... Having the app store where if you charge for apps. 30% has to go to Apple, people won't want to. I see the App Store being a fail. It's just stupid, yeah it can be okay for a iOS device. But on a desktop OS, pointless. I see a rise in people staying on Snow Leopard,switching to 7 come Summer 2011.

While this move might make sense for the people who don't think of technology as anything but a tool, it could also push some users away from Mac and over to a more open platform like Windows or even the “dead” Linux.

It will. It has. I've actually bothered to deal with the hassle of getting Linux going as I want it, and I don't think I'll be going back.

No developer will fight this, too costly to not be in the first place Mac users will go to be applications. Too bad, one more reason I won't be upgrading my iMac and might sell it soon.

Great work Apple,
Make it it even harder to get OS X into the corporate arena (iPads are a hair pulling bitch already)...

And now even people writing "articles" miss it? wow... this "lock out applications that do not pay to be in their “Mac Apps Store.”" is not true, yes locked out form the appstore, but people are still able to get their apps anywhere they want and developers are free to sell and redistribute them anywhere they want

One of the positives to this is I notice you can buy individual iWork programs, instead of being forced to buy the bundle.

Title should read... "Developers can now add software to Mac app store" there is still nothing stopping you buying software the same way you always have.

Although it wont be long

Whats the crap about mac osx being an appliance instead of a real os? If it will veep the crap that messes the system out of it then bring it now!!! I an a power use since the dos days, I can't even rennet how many times I had to spend whole days to rebuild my system since I crappy company did not spend time to test their app before releasing it. Anyone remember Easy cd creator that could literally break windows?


Most of the problems windows users are having are due to buggy software and not windows itself!

If apple can create an ecosystem which will force developers to make stable software in oder to be there the is is more than great news!

Mac app store is going to be supplementary anyway, they cant do otherwise at start, in the future they might lock down the system to apps only from the app store but it won't matter to the end user once they do it since all app will want to be there!

For people who don't see the point of giving apple 30% in order to live in the AppStore they might not realize how powerful AppStore can be in order to skyrocket app sales once either featured or in top list of different categories. You can sit and watch sales grow without spending a lot of money in advance for promotion that might or might not work!

Why aren't people comprehending that while the Lion App store is supplementary, it could only be a sign of things to come, particularly when you look at Apple's stranglehold of the iOS platform and what you can achieve with it. The title says closing, which to me implies that while they haven't sewn up the ability to run any .dmg for the moment, they could very well do in one of the future successors to Lion.

While I agree such sentiments are more editorial, I do not particularly feel they are wrong. Apple needs to be careful here because they need alternative installer methods for loading devices such as 3G dialers, printers, scanners, HID devices, webcams, and hardware devices not currently thought of. Though who knows, what with the removal of flash from OSX on the new macbook air it is definitely a sign of things to come. If they turn the iMac/Macbook/Macbook Air range into appliances, I'm not sure that even the EU can force them to open their system like they forced Microsoft to do with Windows on several occasions.

smithy_dll said,
... with the removal of flash from OSX on the new macbook air it is definitely a sign of things to come.

Apple removed flash (or - they made flash incompatible with) the new macbook air? When did that happen? Is there a link to that story? And which is it - they ship new macbooks without flash, or they go further and prevent users from being able to install it themselves?

Smithy. Apple has no need to lock down their MacBook's, iMac's, Mac Pro's & Mac Mini's because they are NOT phones. One of the reasons Apple locked down the iPhone was because carriers would have messed things up by adding their own crap apps and rebranding everything.

SumGuy said,

Apple removed flash (or - they made flash incompatible with) the new macbook air? When did that happen? Is there a link to that story? And which is it - they ship new macbooks without flash, or they go further and prevent users from being able to install it themselves?

They only just did that because they just want people to download the latest version from Adobe instead of loading potentially out of date/insecure versions on their computers.

Just wait until the jailbreak comes out for the mac store, maybe is not such a bad idea... again, only a mad man would pay hundreds of dollars for software intended for home use.

vladtm said,
Just wait until the jailbreak comes out for the mac store, maybe is not such a bad idea... again, only a mad man would pay hundreds of dollars for software intended for home use.

I actually wondered if this will make piracy more widespread. I mean if they use the same DRM methods for iOS, these apps will be cracked like crazy.


Obviously devs will have to conform to Apples validation system, which probably won't consist of the serial number hassle, and will instead rely on their already in place DRM system.

Hell no, this is one helluva sh*t storm brewing. oorah for non legit x86 apple computers and their non compliance software. there is no way I was gonna buy an iSLAB for iMONEY, hell, next jobs will be blocking websites because they aren't clones of safari's default home page. someone needs to cap this guy with a couple of rounds to the face. sort his thinking out.

gotta take some time off to nuke every mac in the country

Auzeras said,
Hell no, this is one helluva sh*t storm brewing. oorah for non legit x86 apple computers and their non compliance software. there is no way I was gonna buy an iSLAB for iMONEY, hell, next jobs will be blocking websites because they aren't clones of safari's default home page. someone needs to cap this guy with a couple of rounds to the face. sort his thinking out.

gotta take some time off to nuke every mac in the country

So, you wish someone physical harm because they are CEO of a company that is introducing an app store.

You're logic is inconceivable, and downright scary. Hope your real life is a bit more realistic, or you're in for jail time.

Freedom = inconsistency, so yeah, it's good to have things all together, but if Apple found a new way to make money, why not exploit it... since when does Apple refuse money ?
The Mac is a closed ecosystem already, this store will make it even less attractive to lots of people. Since when do i have to buy an app to use it ? lol.... that's just mad.
People who buy apps use them for productivity or don't know how to make them work otherwise.

Hope this doesn't happen. The one reason I use Android is the whole anything goes freedom and Im happy to have apps occasionally go wrong because of this.

If this is how Apple plan to move then I won't be jumping ship, and this MBP will be the last computer from them I shall own.

I like my freedom of application, and choice. Take that away and your left with nothing but profit, and a company not caring about quality, but more about quantity.

Elven said,
If this is how Apple plan to move then I won't be jumping ship, and this MBP will be the last computer from them I shall own.

I like my freedom of application, and choice. Take that away and your left with nothing but profit, and a company not caring about quality, but more about quantity.

You're an idiot if you read this story (flame bait) and decided never to own another Apple computer.

EVERY tech site I have seen has this idea that the Mac App Store means the end of real computers everywhere.

NO.

The App Store is just a single source to get Apple-approved applications. Think of it as a Linux Repository. It's not the only place to get the programs you want, but it's a hell of a lot easier.

Apple knows that if they completely shut off OSX to the outside world, they will lose nearly ALL of their desktop and laptop business, save for those few people who feel the need to be so sheltered.

Also, "It appears that Apple is ready to do to Mac OS what they've done to their iPhone and iPad - lock out applications that do not pay to be in their “Mac Apps Store"" has got to be the biggest load of bull**** fear-mongering I have EVER read.

joep1984 said,
EVERY tech site I have seen has this idea that the Mac App Store means the end of real computers everywhere.

NO.

The App Store is just a single source to get Apple-approved applications. Think of it as a Linux Repository. It's not the only place to get the programs you want, but it's a hell of a lot easier.

Apple knows that if they completely shut off OSX to the outside world, they will lose nearly ALL of their desktop and laptop business, save for those few people who feel the need to be so sheltered.

Also, "It appears that Apple is ready to do to Mac OS what they've done to their iPhone and iPad - lock out applications that do not pay to be in their “Mac Apps Store"" has got to be the biggest load of bull**** fear-mongering I have EVER read.

Thank god for some sanity. Many of the restrictions they place would block 99% of software out there such as those which need super user authorisation such as plugins, system utilities etc. and large software titles with high price tags such as Creative Suite, Office, AutoCAD etc. would be completely impractical to make available for the AppStore.

the title is a little misleading but once again you guys are just reading what you want.

The AppStore is an ADDITION to the platform we already have... It's is not a REPLACEMENT.

We'll see quite a lot of iphone apps ported to OSX such as flightcontrol, angry birds, classic sega remakes, and all the other useful apps.

I do agree 30% is a bit steep, but apps will be in charts, have featured opportunities and basically get more publicity and sales than they would if they advertised on their own, so even though 30% is a large portion to pay, i'm sure it will end up paying off.

It's exactly what they said it is, the iOS AppStore coming to OSX. It's a new feature to support what we already have, if you don't want to use it that is fine, it wont change your existing experience... you can still get all your apps the original way, maybe excluding 1 or 2 that may decide to adopt to AppStore, these will be the smaller companies and independent developers rather than large software vendors.

"The company has been growing WITHOUT you and will continue to do so. WITHOUT you."
Strongly agreed. People choose products fit their requirements, nothing like faith involved. If you don't like it, it's not necessary to state your feeling every time you see this kind of crap articles on neowin.

This report reminds me Chinese news articles when I was there. The only thing author wants is to mislead you because people just simply assume worst things when they see news not related to themselves.

Neowin needs to stop this crap now just like techcrunch needs to stop annoying articles of apple fanboys.

Wow how misleading. While this obviously won't kill osx ( it is after all a nice os ) I just hope that with each release of osx apple will not continue to lock down the platform more and more because that will harm it.

Solid Knight said,
I predict an empty Mac App Store.

Yeah, because the millions of devs who created iOS apps aren't going to use their new found expertise in cocoa to expand on that and make millions of mac apps, and most likely millions of dollars in revenue...


This could really make the amount of Mac apps take off, which will in turn attract more users to the Mac.

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of windows-only apps get ported over.

Binary said,

Yeah, because the millions of devs who created iOS apps aren't going to use their new found expertise in cocoa to expand on that and make millions of mac apps, and most likely millions of dollars in revenue...


This could really make the amount of Mac apps take off, which will in turn attract more users to the Mac.

Wouldn't be surprised if a lot of windows-only apps get ported over.

Not when you're handing over 30%. That's a huge chunk of cash to be forking over.

Solid Knight said,

Not when you're handing over 30%. That's a huge chunk of cash to be forking over.

Again... as I and several others said above... think about marketing costs... distribution costs, etc.

Much more than 30% if you put your stuff in a box on a shelf at a best buy.

I think the people here need to gain some perspective. Not everything is made for our type. Our type being technically inclined - we want our tech the way we want our tech and don't you dare tell us how to use it. If you already refuse to buy Apple products and dislike the company's direction, of course you wont like this - and that's okay, because it's not being made for people like you. It's not for you, so stop pretending like it is. The company has been growing without you and will continue to do so. Without you.

The Mac AppStore is being made for you're silly Girlfriend. It's being made for your lazy Brother. It's being made for your clumsy Aunt and your clueless Grandmother. It's being made for people that just want their technology to work. It's being made for people that do not want to be inconvenienced with patches and prompts, or crashes and bugs. These people have seen how great their iPhones, iPads, and iPhones are in terms of hassle-free convenience, why can't their Desktop Macs be like that? It can and will be... Soon.

Lets also not overlook the amount of exposure and marketing these software companies will receive from the AppStore for Mac. How much time do you spend on the Android Market or on Steam curiously searching for a hidden gem? How much time would you spend on the AppStore for Mac doing the same? If you're like me, too much. Compare that to the exposure Mac software gets at Best Buy, Walmart, or your University Bookstore. Compare that the exposure Mac Software gets in news paper adverts. Compare that to the selection of Mac software available in a retail environment like such. Do the math.

I own both. A self-built gaming PC and a brand new 3.6GHz i5-680 iMac and I am looking forward to seeing the AppStore on my Mac.

KSib said,
Something tells me this isn't going to hurt Apple much.

It won't and MS is probably going to have an App store as well (since documents leaked) and Linux has had one for years. It's not really a big deal since you can still install the same way. I don't like Apple products for the most part (even though I acknowledge good technology) and I do like Microsoft products more but this is really a non-issue. For big corporations that make big programs, this is not a problem for them since those programs are "always" going to be needed.

There will however (on both platforms, I'm assuming MS will do what those leaked documents said about an App Store) be a problem when people think that ALL of their programs come from the app store. No matter, app stores are good, but the cloud and apps are going to be the real future.

Last time I checked my MacBook Pro has a DVD/CD drive in it. And I bet Apple won't stop selling laptops without optical drives, so everyone who thinks Apple is closing doors on external applications is plain retarded.

Lol yes... this article implies it's a replacement - it isn't. You are right. Thank you for having some common sense in this sea of stupidity and zealousy.

Matt Hardwick said,
Lol yes... this article implies it's a replacement - it isn't. You are right. Thank you for having some common sense in this sea of stupidity and zealousy.

Actually, the last sentence of this article states that it's not a replacement. Yes, you heard it, the LAST sentence. A lot of guys who posted comments here didn't read it through, and this is why we have all the negative comments, when in fact the news is very very good news for us Mac users.

sexypeperodri said,
Last time I checked my MacBook Pro has a DVD/CD drive in it. And I bet Apple won't stop selling laptops without optical drives, so everyone who thinks Apple is closing doors on external applications is plain retarded.

+1
I guess everyone forgot that the last MacBook Air didn't have one too. Oh... and Netbooks. Oh and Nettops.

Buy an external.

How are developers loosing something they don't currently have? This article is pure flame bait. The App Store was the first decent way to get apps for your mobile device. People have been getting and installing software manually for a long time, and the App Store ain't going to change that.

No but don't you think the small time independent developers will be damn near forced into this? If they don't comply, hand over their code, and give up 30% then they run the risk of NOT being in the app store while all of their competitors are. That'll surely hurt them and eventually force them into complying and giving up 30%. I like the app store idea but I hate the rules. 30% is just too much. I don't think what Apple offers is deserving of 30%.

Tim Dawg said,
No but don't you think the small time independent developers will be damn near forced into this? If they don't comply, hand over their code, and give up 30% then they run the risk of NOT being in the app store while all of their competitors are. That'll surely hurt them and eventually force them into complying and giving up 30%. I like the app store idea but I hate the rules. 30% is just too much. I don't think what Apple offers is deserving of 30%.
When I submit an app to the app store, they ask for the binary, not the source code. How the hell do you think they could view the source of my code without requesting my prior consent? (legally I still have to consent to them viewing my source.)

Tim Dawg said,
No but don't you think the small time independent developers will be damn near forced into this? If they don't comply, hand over their code, and give up 30% then they run the risk of NOT being in the app store while all of their competitors are. That'll surely hurt them and eventually force them into complying and giving up 30%. I like the app store idea but I hate the rules. 30% is just too much. I don't think what Apple offers is deserving of 30%.

30% is indeed steep, but getting exposure for your app being on a service like this. Most developers would be happy to have 60% of, say, 5,000 sales than 100% of a few hundred sales.

And with sites/services like MacUpdate and Bodega, developers who don't want to list still have plenty of places to get their software out there.

FusionOpz said,
When I submit an app to the app store, they ask for the binary, not the source code. How the hell do you think they could view the source of my code without requesting my prior consent? (legally I still have to consent to them viewing my source.)

There are things that can recreate your code from a binary. You're code is never "safe". If there's a way to compile it, there's a way to decompile it. It may not be exactly how you typed it up, but for the most part, the code is there.

Tim Dawg said,
No but don't you think the small time independent developers will be damn near forced into this? If they don't comply, hand over their code, and give up 30% then they run the risk of NOT being in the app store while all of their competitors are. That'll surely hurt them and eventually force them into complying and giving up 30%. I like the app store idea but I hate the rules. 30% is just too much. I don't think what Apple offers is deserving of 30%.

We have a word for this in the UK... tough-titties. They'd lose more being part of some other distribution network, and the app store is already proven as an excellent way of distributing apps. Without the app store - where else would they be, on some crappy website - on the internet - with no exposure - as for their competitors being on the app store - your argument is null, because you are just as likely to find a competing product on the web... and what is wrong with a bit of competition anyway?

Tim Dawg said,
No but don't you think the small time independent developers will be damn near forced into this? If they don't comply, hand over their code, and give up 30% then they run the risk of NOT being in the app store while all of their competitors are. That'll surely hurt them and eventually force them into complying and giving up 30%. I like the app store idea but I hate the rules. 30% is just too much. I don't think what Apple offers is deserving of 30%.

If I were a small developer, instead of getting through all this marketing mess with a company who can print thousands of my boxes, thousands of DVDs, a manual, make a market study to see where I need to ship it and how any I need to ship, or quite simply make a transactional website (in which people wouldn't believe because it would be a small site), I'd prefer saving all those hours for me and just release it in the App Store god dammit.

I will lose a lot more than 30% if I do this all on my own in the end. I'm not saying that I agree with the 30% in Apple's wallet, but I do agree with the 70% in the developer's wallet. For a small developer, the App Store is the best way ever to make your app go viral.

Apple vs Microsoft reminds me of Liberals vs Conservatives and there are radicals on each side. Most the comments I read on Neowin articles are Microsoft Fanboys and Apple haters. It's just too funny. The guy that said ios is the biggest piece of crap is just ****ed because he doesn't want to be like everybody else and use a device that is actually pretty damn fun, functional, and easy to use. Also, you don't have to use the Mac app store. For me it's just another cool feature and nice way to find some programs for my Mac. It's like a bonus. If it bothers you that much then just keep using your Mac like you always do. Hell you might even see an app on there that you like. No one is forcing you. Some of the comments are just ridiculous.

archer75 said,
Well devs can still develop apps as they've always done for OSX. They don't have to use that app store.

Precisely

30% cut would definitely be a dealbreaker for most application developers, particularly for so little gained with the app store.

chAos972 said,
30% cut would definitely be a dealbreaker for most application developers, particularly for so little gained with the app store.

Smaller developers who burn through capital to market their items might see 30% as a fair trade for getting their apps in front of millions of OSX users... plus Apple handles content delivery through iTunes meaning you don't have to spend hosting $ for direct downloads and less manufacturing $ for boxes, CD/DVD replication, returns, if any, and damaged goods. Really think about this. It makes sense for many developers. Take a look at fulfillment centers and retailers/resellers across the industry. A 30% cut is certainly moderate.

chAos972 said,
30% cut would definitely be a dealbreaker for most application developers, particularly for so little gained with the app store.

No bandwidth cost, better community feedback/review system for user input, closer integration with the OS and thus also the users. I'm not so sure about that...

granted that this will primarily attract small developers, i still see it being a solid revenue source for apple. people said ipad would fail...it's not cannibalizing other pc sales...

this isn't directed towards large software companies like microsoft, adobe, steam etc...but more independent developers who may have quality apps that get lost on the web. i mean, this would essentially be similar to all those software download sites, just more integrated and with greater exposure. i'm all for it

but i speak as a user and investor, not a developer.

The only thing good that can come from the Mac App Store is a full size version of Angry Birds and/or Cut the Rope lol.

Other then that I can just see developers stick to the "old school" dmg method like they have been for so long. Now if apple finds a way to block that method out after Lion, well then, they ****ed up very bad and I will stray clear from them.

But theres no way they will be able to. The App Store will be for your every day shopping at best buy consumer. The person that doesnt know **** and just wants **** to work when its installed. They dont want to do the work, they just want to pay for it and have it at there finger tips. See enough of these people at my Retail Job, ****es me off beyond belief because I try to SAVE them money, instead i dont care i just let them talk to someone else.

This article is a bit misleading in that you allude to the notion that any app not in the app store won't be able to be installed, but then correct that notion at the end of the article. I'm not sure I understand the point of all that hyperbole.

All independent developers will be missing is access to Launchpad, which will no doubt be remedied by the community, and access to automatic updates. No big deal.

First one with some sense. They act like it's the ONLY option. You don't have to use the app store to get your app.

Shadrack said,
If your app isn't in the app store then you are basically in the exact same position that you are in today.

Right...a far cry from 'making your computer an appliance'

Shadrack said,
If your app isn't in the app store then you are basically in the exact same position that you are in today.
Same position as today but tomorrow you're going to be behind 10,000 of your closes competitors as they all decide to give up 30% and do as Lord Jobs commands.

John S. said,
All independent developers will be missing is access to Launchpad, which will no doubt be remedied by the community, and access to automatic updates. No big deal.

What?! Only applications downloaded through the App Store can be added to Launchpad?

I'm not sure if this is idiocy or sensationalism. Perhaps both. The final line shows the actuality of the situation, whereas the rest of the article is just garbage that will fuel the many anti-Apple users on Neowin.

"If developers refuse, they will lose the easy accessibility and automatic update features." Erm, you can't lose something you never had in the first place.

.Neo said,

What?! Only applications downloaded through the App Store can be added to Launchpad?

If it was the case, I would call the Launchpad feature... broken? The goal is to display ALL my applications, not just a portion. Apple knows Apps cannot be separated in two (except maybe on my computer where I keep games in a separate folder, and apps in my main folder).

John S. said,
This article is a bit misleading in that you allude to the notion that any app not in the app store won't be able to be installed, but then correct that notion at the end of the article. I'm not sure I understand the point of all that hyperbole.

All independent developers will be missing is access to Launchpad, which will no doubt be remedied by the community, and access to automatic updates. No big deal.

This article is very misleading. And its pure flame bait. You either submit your app for the store and give Apple 30% or you don't and continue to distribute your software how you want to. But having your app on the store lowers your costs to get it in the hands of users. You earn less per piece of software sold, but you will certainly make it up in sheer volume. In the keynote, Jobs said that the Mac App Store "won't be the only place". I don't know why people are so up in arms about this. Windows 8 has a similar (if not the same) feature rumored to be included in it. And I'm sure that will be debated as to who planned to have that feature first.

I'm not sure that only apps sold through the store will be available to the Launchpad. I can't see that being the case. The feature would be kinda broken. I think it will only support .app files and not allow you to add folders inside the Applications folder. So all of your apps, regardless of where they came from will show up in there.

You guys are missing a point by dissing the entire article, or all dissents, as flame-bait or flamers or the like.

I think they are more concerned whether this sets a dangerous precedence for Apple to lock down the entire desktop OS like what they did for their phones and pads. Highly unlikely it'll happen in my opinion, but still a worrying thought.

I hope everyone realizes you can still get your apps the same exact way you used to before...

It's just another way for the special mac users who don't know anything about the computer they just bought to get software... it's not a requirement to join the store.

giantsnyy said,
I hope everyone realizes you can still get your apps the same exact way you used to before...

It's just another way for the special mac users who don't know anything about the computer they just bought to get software... it's not a requirement to join the store.

Yes, you can buy software outside the App Store, but the question is, this is the first iteration of the store. If the store succeeds and Apple gets a ton of cash through it, what will prevent them from going "all-app store" on the successor for Lion?

As already pointed out, if this is successful then Apple will eventually move to an iOS like business model where only approved apps are allowed. Obviously this will be a gradual process but it's pretty clear what their intentions are here.

Is there anyone out there that wants to buy an iMac 24", I think for the first time in almost twenty-four years it will be time to move to another OS.

Neoauld said,

i think its WONDERFUL, any temptation to touch a crappy apple product is now gone! FREEEEEEEE


same here, if i buy another apple computer now ill just make sure it has snow leopard and not lion, but thats only gonna last a few years until its outdated D:

metheweirdo said,

same here, if i buy another apple computer now ill just make sure it has snow leopard and not lion, but thats only gonna last a few years until its outdated D:

Apple will force you to upgrade or drops support for any older OS.

I think the major developers will simply boycott the store, their applications will most likely get denied anyway, Adobe and Microsoft both don't follow Apple's UI guidelines, Steam wouldn't be allowed either. The Lion App store will probably just become a place to get free applications that make you happy for a day until you forget them, just like the iPhone. No big company like Microsoft or Adobe is going to give up 30% of their sales to Apple.

Omen1393 said,
I think the major developers will simply boycott the store, their applications will most likely get denied anyway, Adobe and Microsoft both don't follow Apple's UI guidelines, Steam wouldn't be allowed either. The Lion App store will probably just become a place to get free applications that make you happy for a day until you forget them, just like the iPhone. No big company like Microsoft or Adobe is going to give up 30% of their sales to Apple.

I don't think so, these so called developers are jobs ******. They will comply with anything he says, just wait & see.

Edited by John S., Oct 23 2010, 4:52am : swear filter...don't abuse it

Neo003 said,

I don't think so, these so called developers are jobs b*^chs. They will comply with anything he says, just wait & see.

Very wrong. Apple's two biggest markets are education and designers. Students need Office (because if the professor uses Office, they aren't gonna accept iWork files), and designers need Photoshop/Dreamweaver/whatever. If Microsoft stops playing Apple's games and pulls Office from the Macs, students will have no choice but to go to Windows. If Adobe gets tired of Apple's games, and pulls their products, their users have no choice but to go back to Windows.

What truely makes an opperating system successful is what's available for it. That's why Windows is a near-monopoly - just about every piece of modern software written is available for Windows. Same with iOS - iOS alone is the biggest piece of crap ever made, the only reason the iPhone is so insanely popular is because of the app store.

And exactly what is the benefit of putting your app on the "apple store". I'd much rather download it from the author or install from a DVD anyway.

I can't see Microsoft or Adobe putting their apps on the Apple store any time soon, let alone giving Apple a 30% cut for nothing!

To be fair, I couldn't imagine Microsoft EVER putting Office on the "Mac Store" and the same goes for Adobe with Photoshop. Those are massive applications that would require a fair amount of time to download, even on a high speed internet connection. I think the majority of applications on the Mac Store will be the same application types found on the iPhone App Store, stupid little games and/or utilities that serve a function or purpose but aren't anything really sophisticated. Of course there are going to be a few exceptions but the majority of the apps on the iPhone App Store are pretty low key. Considering a huge software manufacturer like MS or Adobe would never use the App Store makes me believe this isn't really anything of a threat for Apple.

That being said, I think Jobs is an idiot and this is a bad idea. Talk about hurting the "little guy" developer that has talent and a good idea! You're going to take 30% and demand a code review?! First off, 30% is a lot and second what is going to prevent someone who has access to this code review from stealing the code and writing their own app and publishing it on the store? You, Mr. Little Guy Developer are screwed. It's not like you have the resources to chase the thief down.

I have never understood why people continue to buy the Apple Kool-Aid. Personally speaking, I guess marketing just doesn't effect me as deeply as the iSheeple.

This will happen, and there is nothing that anyone is going to do about it. Apple has the ability to force this. The idea that Apple is somehow "different" than the rest died a decade ago. I think its very like that Adobe and Microsoft will use the store. What companies care most about is making a profit. Freedom and doing it the way they want comes second. There is no way that either Adobe or Microsoft would want to risk even 1% of their profits.

i don't think the app store is meant for the large apps, no company is going to purchase their pro tools through an app store, they are going to purchase it in traditional ways via dvd or download the iso with a key.

Even though they do take a fair amount of time to download Microsoft uses the same method for volume and other business customers, we purchase the keys and then download the ISO, so bandwidth is not really a problem.

As others have mentioned this is for the indie or smaller dev shops and with this in mind 30% is not a bad cut. After you factor in bandwidth costs to download the app from your web site, the paypal / credit card charge for brokering the sale and then marketing and sales you'd find you would hit the 30% and more of your sales. The app store, like the one on the iPhone takes a lot of hassle away from the developer.

Of course there is nothing to say that dev's can't continue with there current method of selling their software, the other thing which will be of interest is that the app store will also cut down (not eliminate!) piracy to a degree so that's also going to appeal.

From the users point of view they have both a reliable method of purchasing software and might be more willing to do so and also a level of trust, knowing that the app has been scanned and can be trusted (again to a certain degree).

Really the best way to think of the app store is to think of it as Steam for Apps. Steam will never be on the app store as there is no need, they have their own model and it works well for them. It's easy to purchase games and having a backup in the cloud is a great benefit and one which makes me think twice about purchasing games on DVD.

Also this is not a Lion feature, it will also be released for Snow Leopard, it was announced alongside Lion but its going to be open up to both platforms.

The only difference between this and the Windows marketplace is that apple have slightly tougher guidelines, however the Windows Marketplace didn't just distribute apps for free for the developers, Microsoft had to take a cut to keep the bandwidth costs and the system running, which is understandable.

Joey H said,

iOS alone is the biggest piece of crap ever made, the only reason the iPhone is so insanely popular is because of the app store.

Excuse me. I don't even have an iDevice but I'm curious. Why is iOS so crappy? I tried Android and I found this was a PoS. Is there any good reason why you said that?

Gabotril said,

Excuse me. I don't even have an iDevice but I'm curious. Why is iOS so crappy? I tried Android and I found this was a PoS. Is there any good reason why you said that?


I like other mobile platforms like Android, but I can definitely be one to say that what Apple is doing is working--iOS is powerful and elegant.

REM2000 said,

As others have mentioned this is for the indie or smaller dev shops and with this in mind 30% is not a bad cut. After you factor in bandwidth costs to download the app from your web site, the paypal / credit card charge for brokering the sale and then marketing and sales you'd find you would hit the 30% and more of your sales. The app store, like the one on the iPhone takes a lot of hassle away from the developer.

Exactly. 30% sounds like a lot but developers have to consider the possibility of much higher sales because of increased visibility. Windows needs an app store more than the Mac does, because on the Mac application installing is already easy and nearly all apps offer automatic updates right out of the box. If you use something like AppFresh you can even check for updates for all your apps easily.

I just hope Apple won't ban great apps like Hyperdock or the Finder replacement Path Finder from the store simply because they replace or augment some of the main things in OSX. It sucks that for example on the iOS the Camera Plus app had to have the "press volume buttons to take pictures" feature removed. The user should be able to decide if he wants to use non-Apple features.

dvb2000 said,
And exactly what is the benefit of putting your app on the "apple store".

Linux has had something like this for ages, I suggest you look there to answer this question...

What if you could download the adobe creative suite trial for free and pay+activate it directly with adobe, once you have the trial version?

bluarash said,
This will happen, and there is nothing that anyone is going to do about it. Apple has the ability to force this. The idea that Apple is somehow "different" than the rest died a decade ago. I think its very like that Adobe and Microsoft will use the store. What companies care most about is making a profit. Freedom and doing it the way they want comes second. There is no way that either Adobe or Microsoft would want to risk even 1% of their profits.

So giving 30% of profits to apple would be an excellent way maximise profits? It's not like you're going to get people browsing the mac app store, randomly see Microsoft Office 2011 and spend £200 or w/e just because they stumbled upon it, the same applies for adobe, you can bet no one will stumble upon it and fork out £2500 for the suite just by seeing it on the app store. It's not the same thing as buying a fart app for 99p.

The people who buy these kind of programs are going to know about them, it's not like these programs are made by indie developers.

LumpyCustard said,

Linux has had something like this for ages, I suggest you look there to answer this question...

The app platforms in Linux don't have a megalomaniac controlling them

With the app store, a developer doesn't get to :
- Call companies and ask them for a price to print software boxes, instruction manuals, and DVDs in masses and select the most inexpensive
- Waste thousands of resources just to actually have a software box
- Ship (and pay the shipping costs) those software boxes to stores all around the world.
- Build a website for the application (pay a web server to host the site)
- Spread the word everywhere about your application (it may not cost anything, but it's a tedious job)
- Build a transactional website (how the hell does one do that?) to distribute the application through a downloadable DMG file
- Check the bandwidth occasionally to confirm that you didn't get over it
- Ask people individually for reviews to see what's good and wrong about your app

But on the other side, with the App Store, you :
- Submit the app, and a few days later it gets approved and you can already make 70% of the revenue while not doing anything.
- If you're lucky enough and your app is awesome enough, it will be on the front page of Apple's App Store one day and you'll get thousands of downloads, critiques, reviews, etc. to make an even better App. Oh, and you'll have a bigger wallet during that day.

The choice isn't hard. Huge developers like Microsoft, Apple and Adobe could decide to continue selling their apps the same way, but small developers get so many benefits.

PsykX said,

But on the other side, with the App Store, you :
- Submit the app, and a few days later it gets approved and you can already make 70% of the revenue while not doing anything.

Yes, and if you're unlucky your $100+ thousand dollar investment into a program will not be approved by Job's mob.

Minimoose said,

So giving 30% of profits to apple would be an excellent way maximise profits? It's not like you're going to get people browsing the mac app store, randomly see Microsoft Office 2011 and spend £200 or w/e just because they stumbled upon it, the same applies for adobe, you can bet no one will stumble upon it and fork out £2500 for the suite just by seeing it on the app store. It's not the same thing as buying a fart app for 99p.

The people who buy these kind of programs are going to know about them, it's not like these programs are made by indie developers.

You will see Microsoft Office 2011 and Adobe Photoshop. My guess is that for select vendors Apple will waive the traditional fees. It won't be fair, but we are talking about Microsoft. I am sure Apple would distribute Office for free on the App store. Why would they not like it, it locks down their applications. My guess is that to entice users, they will offer a discount of anywhere from 20-40% off (some select apps). Second, I really don't see a problem with someone putting down $499 on an Office application through the AppStore. Third, my guess is even if you don't use the App Store to buy the application, if it is a mainstream app, updates will be pushed out through the App Store.

The real benefit to this idea, however, will be companies like MacMariner and Nisus. They have low to midrange applications that could really benefit from a wider audience. The one fear I do have about this store is the inability of some applications (DVD rippers) to be approved, and the possibility with each update that it becomes increasingly difficult to install applications on OSX without the App Store (well a more difficult and time consuming process).

Gabotril said,

Excuse me. I don't even have an iDevice but I'm curious. Why is iOS so crappy? I tried Android and I found this was a PoS. Is there any good reason why you said that?

It just is a very limited OS that tends to be far behind the times. iOS has been around since 2005, and it was released without customizable wallpaper, multitasking, or copy/paste functionality (Windows Mobile and Blackberry were capable of all three at the time). It wasn't until about 2007 or 2008 that iOS gained copy/paste ability, and only this year did it gain wallpapers and limited multitasking.

It still hasn't really caught up either - Blackberry, WinMo, and Android all have some degree of flexibility when it comes to customization - such as Blackberry having themes to change the appearance, and Android having all those widgets for the home screen, etc. All iOS has now is changeable wallpaper and the ability to rearrange the icons.

I just feel that iOS has constantly been lagging behind the other mobile OSs in terms of base features and functionality, and has simply been using a huge app store to compensate for its shortcomings.

(For clarification, my argument is based on "iOS alone". I'm aware that jailbreaking allowed you to do most of the things I listed from the beginning, but that is not "alone" anymore").

Gungel said,

Yes, and if you're unlucky your $100+ thousand dollar investment into a program will not be approved by Job's mob.

Have you really observed which apps don't get approved ?
Fart apps, porn apps, spyware apps, abominable apps that just don't work, etc. A dev can make an app and can already tell if it's going to be accepted or not. Use your brain and logic on this please.

_DP said,
What if you could download the adobe creative suite trial for free and pay+activate it directly with adobe, once you have the trial version?

You can already do that from Adobe's site.

mrp04 said,

You can already do that from Adobe's site.

You can do this with a whole host of sotware, I suggested this because Adobe wouldn't have to give 30% of their profits to apple to sell their CS apps.

Then I realised that the title is misleading and it doesn't matter either way.

PsykX said,

Have you really observed which apps don't get approved ?
Fart apps, porn apps, spyware apps, abominable apps that just don't work, etc. A dev can make an app and can already tell if it's going to be accepted or not. Use your brain and logic on this please.

Unless you are working in the app-approving team, I suggest you try not to act too smart about it or cajole people into "using their brain". It makes you look stupid to be honest.