A Free and Open World Depends on a Free and Open Web

[Asrokhel]

Pledge your support for the free and open Internet:

?A free and open world depends on a free and open Internet. Governments alone, working behind closed doors, should not direct its future. The billions of people around the globe who use the Internet should have a voice.?

http://google.com/takeaction/

[Phouchg]

Says Google which shamelessly rakes two nines of its billions flooding this very web with ads and mines it for info behind closed doors.

I'd like to propose another thing here - Stop Stupid Drivel. Nothing is free, everything costs and someone pays in the end. From infrastructure to hardware and wiring to electricity to administration, tech support and programmer salaries to funding research of new developments and whatever I'm forgetting at the moment - we, end users, pay for all that, indirectly. Where there's money - there not only is, but must be control. Where there's control, there's abuse of it. All tech companies abuse it to increase shareholder value - that's the long and short of it.

[Asrokhel]

Google means free of censorship and the ability to share things across the Web/Internet freely when they are saying 'free and open'.

[Lord Method Man]

But they're cool with the wholesale harvesting of everyone's information and activity as well as plastering ads in my face everywhere I go with DoubleClick and who knows what else. Screw Google.

I wonder what their real angle is. My guess is they're scared of new legislation mandating that they can't continue ignoring DNT.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

This also affects Microsoft (Bing), Yahoo (ironically also Bing), and every other company that's part of web.

[Phouchg]

Internets depend on millions of people all over the world to even exist. All parts that together make the thing must comply to local laws. If a country wants to screw people over, no one's going to change it ever. Google is going for their own agenda at best - not caring about anything else than continuing to increase shareholder value by keeping its business model as intact as possible, and political influence at worst, like it doesn't have enough of that already. And it's something that must not be allowed. Though people are gullible, they always need their imaginary freedom fighters and heroes that spit battle cries against the evil system. Unfortunately, amidst all the struggle and casualties no one has ever created a better system than its predecessor, and at the end of the day new freedom fighters have always risen to bring down the very foundation they had helped to build.

[HawkMan]

Google means free of censorship and the ability to share things across the Web/Internet freely when they are saying 'free and open'.

Eh, no.

[Lord Method Man]

Google doesn't want anyone having control over the internet except for Google. Hence their stance.

[thealexweb]

Google doesn't want anyone having control over the internet except for Google. Hence their stance.

Google is a big website, how does it actually control the internet? Answer: it can't

[Dashel]

When google starts auto-competing Carlin's seven words then they can talk. As long as businesses, including Neowin, think censoring speech is a legitimate mechanism to create more polite societies, we all lose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/18/opinion/sunday/you-cant-say-that-on-the-internet.html?pagewanted=all

"What is the vehicle for this new prudishness? Dour, one-dimensional algorithms, the mathematical constructs that automatically determine the limits of what is culturally acceptable."

[ichi]

Internets depend on millions of people all over the world to even exist. All parts that together make the thing must comply to local laws. If a country wants to screw people over, no one's going to change it ever. Google is going for their own agenda at best - not caring about anything else than continuing to increase shareholder value by keeping its business model as intact as possible, and political influence at worst, like it doesn't have enough of that already. And it's something that must not be allowed. Though people are gullible, they always need their imaginary freedom fighters and heroes that spit battle cries against the evil system. Unfortunately, amidst all the struggle and casualties no one has ever created a better system than its predecessor, and at the end of the day new freedom fighters have always risen to bring down the very foundation they had helped to build.

Google is interested in a free (as in freedom) and open web because that's the best playground for their business. If governments or any other third party start setting up barriers for users, that'll make it harder for Google to collect info and profit from targeted advertisement.

It just so happens that Google's interests regarding the freedom and openness of the web align with ours even if for a completely different set of reasons.

A behemoth that lobbies for interests that align with yours can come handy, far better that having just a bunch of companies trying to turn the web into a tiered proprietary mess.

[Growled Member]

Nothing is totally free. You may not see it but there is a catch in there somewhere.

[ArialBlue]

Wolf in Sheep's clothing says what?

[HawkMan]

Google is interested in a free (as in freedom) and open web because that's the best playground for their business. If governments or any other third party start setting up barriers for users, that'll make it harder for Google to collect info and profit from targeted advertisement.

No, Google doesn't care if the internet is free. They care about market access so they can make money on the users, if the users are free to do whatever they want on said internet is something google don't give a flying f about, outside of looking good on press conferences.

That's why Google will stand on their press conferences in the west proclaiming support for a free internet, while handing all your info to the government on request, and when China and IRan asks them to censor their search results and help them censor the internet, they go "sure, as long as we get to serve ads and collect info about the users, we'll even share everything we learn about them with you".

[+M2Ys4U Subscriber¹]

Nothing is totally free. You may not see it but there is a catch in there somewhere.

Free as in free speech (libre), not free as in free beer (gratis)

[Asrokhel]

Free as in free speech (libre), not free as in free beer (gratis)

That's what I said.

[ichi]

No, Google doesn't care if the internet is free. They care about market access so they can make money on the users, if the users are free to do whatever they want on said internet is something google don't give a flying f about, outside of looking good on press conferences.

That's why Google will stand on their press conferences in the west proclaiming support for a free internet, while handing all your info to the government on request, and when China and IRan asks them to censor their search results and help them censor the internet, they go "sure, as long as we get to serve ads and collect info about the users, we'll even share everything we learn about them with you".

Google moved their search service out to Hong Kong in 2010 so they didn't have to play along with Chinese censorship as they had to do to get unblocked after 2002. They have anyway always refused to share any information about users and their searches with the Chinese government, which could be the whole reason why they assaulted Google's systems to try to get that info.

Much unlike Bing on the other hand, which is still operating in China and playing along with the government's censorship.

Regarding "handing all your info to the government on request", every company does that to the extent the law forces them to do so (eg. a court order). If you have any proof of Google going the extra step and happily giving away data for no good reason, be my guest and show it.

[thealexweb]

Google took a stand in China, rather than hand over user's information and censor results it pulled out and now one in six of the world's population can't use Google, bold move.

[HawkMan]

Google is still playing along with the censorship, it doesn't matter where their servers are, if they don't they get blocked int he great firewall. Moving them out just prevents the Chinese to raid their server at any time. It has no practical effect on their ability to provide a service in Chine without censoring, or not providing the government with any info.

if they want chinese money, they have to appease the state. and there's a LOT of chinese to make ad money of, so google is not giving up on chine just because on some censoring.

Google took a stand in China, rather than hand over user's information and censor results it pulled out and now one in six of the world's population can't use Google, bold move.

Actually, I believe they later made a deal with the government and are back in China, but they still have to sensor, the rules regarding handing over info changed a bit, but they still have to do it, but it requires more paperwork and crap. but then they hand over info in America to so...

Also remember that Google is REALLY tiny in China, as everyone uses the Chinese equivalent, Baidu or whatever.

[ichi]

Google is still playing along with the censorship, it doesn't matter where their servers are, if they don't they get blocked int he great firewall. Moving them out just prevents the Chinese to raid their server at any time. It has no practical effect on their ability to provide a service in Chine without censoring, or not providing the government with any info.

if they want chinese money, they have to appease the state. and there's a LOT of chinese to make ad money of, so google is not giving up on chine just because on some censoring.

Actually, I believe they later made a deal with the government and are back in China, but they still have to sensor, the rules regarding handing over info changed a bit, but they still have to do it, but it requires more paperwork and crap. but then they hand over info in America to so...

Google isn't censoring results in China, that's the whole reason they moved to Hong Kong. The Chinese "Great Firewall" is censoring Google results from Google China exactly the same as it does with Google.com.

As for Google sharing information with the Chinese government I'll just say the same that I said before about your other claims: back your statements with facts, because you are just speculating while every source I've found points to Google not sharing anything with the Chinese government.

[HawkMan]

Wherever google is, they're still being censored by the great firewall, So they're still complying with the chinese government, just in way that makes it seem like they're being a nice guy and fighting censorship.

[ichi]

Wherever google is, they're still being censored by the great firewall, So they're still complying with the chinese government, just in way that makes it seem like they're being a nice guy and fighting censorship.

Whether the great firewall censors sites that operate outside of Chinese jurisdiction has hardly anything to do with those sites complying with Chinese censorship. Those censorship laws don't apply to Google Hong Kong, and therefore neither to Google China operating from Hong Kong.

It's services that are currently operating inside China (such as Bing) which are bound to Chinese censorship laws, and who are complying with Chinese government censorship.

[jakem1]

Google is interested in a free (as in freedom)...

Then why don't they support my right to privacy and my right to be free of their data mining? Why do they censor the search results that appear on their website and manipulate results to favour their own products? Why don't they practice what they preach in countries like China?

Google are hypocrites and their defenders are naive at best.

[ichi]

Then why don't they support my right to privacy and my right to be free of their data mining? Why do they censor the search results that appear on their website and manipulate results to favour their own products? Why don't they practice what they preach in countries like China?

Google are hypocrites and their defenders are naive at best.

Google is a corporation, nuf said. Just because they support a free and open web doesn't mean they aren't intrusive, obnoxious and sometimes bordering (or even outright) illegal in their business practices.

Regarding China, see the replies above.

[Noir Angel]

Thread about Google appears, the Microsoft trolls flood in. It's like a Formula here. Web censorship is a bad thing, people should be on the side of one of the few corporations that isn't trying to censor the web.