A Free and Open World Depends on a Free and Open Web

[jakem1]

Google is a corporation, nuf said. Just because they support a free and open web doesn't mean they aren't intrusive, obnoxious and sometimes bordering (or even outright) illegal in their business practices.

That's my point though. They don't really support a free and open web if their own actions undermine that goal. Until Google start respecting people's rights anything they have to say about a free and open web is just meaningless marketing and propaganda. IMO Google do a lot less than Microsoft to actively promote a free and open web (and I'm certainly not silly enough to believe that MS are 100% altruistic in this regard) but they certainly do a lot more to promote themselves as knights in shining armour. It's all just a cover to disguise the fact that they want to create an environment where they can control and monetise the flow of information.

Thread about Google appears, the Microsoft trolls flood in. It's like a Formula here. Web censorship is a bad thing, people should be on the side of one of the few corporations that isn't trying to censor the web.

Here we go again. Someone says something you don't understand/agree with and your only response is to resort to cheap, baseless attacks. :rolleyes:

[HawkMan]

Thread about Google appears, the Microsoft trolls flood in. It's like a Formula here. Web censorship is a bad thing, people should be on the side of one of the few corporations that isn't trying to censor the web.

Sorry, but, the only peopel mentioning Microsoft products are the google apologists in this thread. so what MS trolls ? oh right ,anyone who doesn't bow down and kneel before the great lower case g is a Microsoft fanboy, I forgot :rolleyes:

[ichi]

It's all just a cover to disguise the fact that they want to create an environment where they can control and monetise the flow of information.

I don't think they are even covering anything, really. Monetising the information is their core business.

The thing is, the more open and free the web is, the easier it gets to index all the content and track the users.

Take flash for instance: something as relatively innocuous as that was hindering Google's ability to index content, hence why they are pushing to replace every bit of proprietary tech with open standards such as HTML5.

As I said before, their push for an open web aligns with our interests. Their reasons to do so don't.

IMO supporting the former while opposing the latter is not hypocritical, but rather pragmatical.

Sorry, but, the only peopel mentioning Microsoft products are the google apologists in this thread.

Questioning baseless claims about alleged shady deals with governments makes you a Google apologist now?

[Athernar]

Thread about Google appears, the Microsoft trolls flood in. It's like a Formula here. Web censorship is a bad thing, people should be on the side of one of the few corporations that isn't trying to censor the web.

Do you realise how hypocritical you're being?

In the thread about Chrome/Webkit stifling the open web with their vendor-specific cruft, you came in as a Google troll (To borrow your terminology) and criticised Microsoft when in that case, they were the ones advocating use of vendor-agnostic standards that would benefit every browser. So you really don't have a leg to stand on when decrying "Microsoft trolls" in this thread.

If you want to be ends-justifies-the-means about this then fine, but frankly as far as I'm concerned - Microgoogle can go collectively jump off a cliff.

[jakem1]

The thing is, the more open and free the web is, the easier it gets to index all the content and track the users.

Not really. A truly free web would include protections that allow people to freely express themselves without fear of being tracked or monitored by corporations and governments. That's the bit that Google is opposed to.

[Phouchg]

That's what I said.

That's what RMS says all the time, living in his fantasy wonderland. Good thing that worked in, say, Egypt, where the mighty internets were simply cut off at the backbone when things started to heat up. What one's going to do about censorship in half of the world states? That's a political problem, separate for each independent nation - which is why they're called independent, so they can do many things as they please. Internets is a purely material thing that belongs to somebody and adheres to local laws. To fix those laws, you have to fix the whole world. Might as well go ahead with world hunger, global warming and AIDS, then, as well.

[ichi]

Not really. A truly free web would include protections that allow people to freely express themselves without fear of being tracked or monitored by corporations and governments. That's the bit that Google is opposed to.

Well, of course. They want a BSD kind of freedom, so to speak: your are free to do what you want and others are free to take what you do and turn that into a business you don't get to participate in.

Expecting them to support restrictions that go straight against their business is naive.

[+Eternal Tempest MVC]

Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/24/european_parliament_votes_against_itu/

This situation is making for a strange set of bed fellows.

From article:

What's worrying the European Parliament, along with an unlikely coalition of Google, the US Republican party, organized labor, and Greenpeace, is that the meeting might try and take over regulatory oversight for internet communications in a closed-door coup. The US government has said it will oppose serious moves to change the current regulatory order, but how effective that will be remains to be seen.