Dotdot Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Lets see Hacked, then locked out of Live for 30days, then wait 10days for refund to be processed, then wait 30days for it show up in bank. Fyi im now into my 38th day since MS completed there investigation and still no refund, despite them clearly telling me they are. Ive phoned 3 times now and all I get is "be patient". Total and utter ****ing joke. Im off live after my 2 free months are up. MS your customer service is total ****!! Now over 30days still no refund. Wtf are you playing at MS, wheres my money? There certainly quick to take it off you, but not give it back. Raging now, totally raging! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Don't feed them. :laugh: I will say this, though: Even if someone gains access to your Xbox Live profile, they don't have access to your credit card information besides the last four digits. So it's pretty much worthless on anything but Xbox Live, and it takes maybe 5 minutes to get your credit card company to remove those charges. Yeah seems it just takes five minutes looking at the post above. He doesn't seem inconvenienced in the slightest because obviously MS have every person sorted fine and all credit has been refunded according to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted December 3, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted December 3, 2011 Don't feed them. :laugh: I will say this, though: Even if someone gains access to your Xbox Live profile, they don't have access to your credit card information besides the last four digits. So it's pretty much worthless on anything but Xbox Live, and it takes maybe 5 minutes to get your credit card company to remove those charges. People are spending money on your credit card, yeah okay they can't go and buy a new washing machine at Best Buy, but hundreds of dollars on FIFA points or whatever, I think that can count as having access to your card to do damage. I don't know where your 5 minutes comes from as it's MS refunding these charges and no one, not on here or NeoGAF has had any charges refunded that quickly. Most wait weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yeah seems it just takes five minutes looking at the post above. He doesn't seem inconvenienced in the slightest because obviously MS have every person sorted fine and all credit has been refunded according to you. Yes, because one person is representative of the entire population, isn't it? By your logic, the other people in this thread who said it took no time at all to get refunded don't exist, huh? Every reputable credit card company in the world will take care of those charges in a matter of minutes. Do you have a credit card? Ever dealt with a situation similar to this? Because I have, and it is hardly a laborous process. My goodness Playstation trolls are just chomping at the bit now that they have something to complain about in regards to the Xbox again. I guess we all should have expected the calm on this section of the forum wouldn't last. Get ready for floods of negative Xbox and Microsoft news posts yet again, I'm betting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted December 3, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted December 3, 2011 Yes, because one person is representative of the entire population, isn't it? By your logic, the other people in this thread who said it took no time at all to get refunded don't exist, huh? Every reputable credit card company in the world will take care of those charges in a matter of minutes. Do you have a credit card? Ever dealt with a situation similar to this? Because I have, and it is hardly a laborous process. My goodness Playstation trolls are just chomping at the bit now that they have something to complain about in regards to the Xbox again. I guess we all should have expected the calm on this section of the forum wouldn't last. Get ready for floods of negative Xbox and Microsoft news posts yet again, I'm betting. Do some reading, for someone acting so informed, you seem to know little Topic 1 Topic 2 Topic 3 Topic 4 Lots of people can't get refunds until MS finish their investigation, usually around 28 days (one month). Even a case of after the investigation MS say no So after 30 days I get a phone call saying that they will not recover my hijacked account due to violation of terms - apparently I used only the first letter of my name when I set up my account 6 years ago. Gamertag - gone All my Xbox live arcade games - gone 6 months of Xbox live prepaid - gone Plus I think they said I'm responsible for the charges.. Stay classy Microsoft. http://www.neogaf.co...7&postcount=737 So no, it's not just because of one person on Neowin we say such things. There's tens of examples, if not hundreds in the topics above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Bleat on, I've even pointed out in both a MS thread and Sony thread that it's not been proven to be a 360 issue, it is however a MICROSOFT issue and they need to be proactive on it. Yes the Sony network went down and caused an inconvenience to people that wanted to play online, and people possibly needing to cancel cards. No matter how you want to spin it, that is nothing to actual money being taken from peoples accounts. The MS issue in real world terms is a lot worse for people that the Sony one. We don't need to troll the proof is here in this thread. Feel free to go back to the Sony threads and find someone complaining of something more than having to cancel a card and not being able to play online. Then maybe I will believe that they are on a level ground. Till then accept that this is an MS issue and that they aren't the infallible company people want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Bleat on, I've even pointed out in both a MS thread and Sony thread that it's not been proven to be a 360 issue, it is however a MICROSOFT issue and they need to be proactive on it. Yes the Sony network went down and caused an inconvenience to people that wanted to play online, and people possibly needing to cancel cards. No matter how you want to spin it, that is nothing to actual money being taken from peoples accounts. The MS issue in real world terms is a lot worse for people that the Sony one. We don't need to troll the proof is here in this thread. Feel free to go back to the Sony threads and find someone complaining of something more than having to cancel a card and not being able to play online. Then maybe I will believe that they are on a level ground. Till then accept that this is an MS issue and that they aren't the infallible company people want to believe. I'm not spinning it in any way. I'm stating the facts. I guess you guys don't like facts anymore? It takes minutes to get charges removed from your credit card. That is a fact. Every reputable credit card company in the world has a system in place to take care of fraudulent charges. That is a fact. Charges that are removed from your account are no longer responsible for your payment. That is a fact. Ergo, the "real world" impact that these charges have on users amounts to the time lost having to call your credit card company and get the charges removed. That is a fact. If your credit card company doesn't have these services available to you, then you must use a credit card company I've never heard of. So, let me get this straight from you: your argument is that all that happened for users in the PSN hack was individuals had to call their credit card company and also weren't able to play online? So, let me ask you: how on earth is that any different from the situation at hand in this scenario? The only difference is the PSN hack impacted everyone. This impacts those who have had their accounts hijacked, from what we know. This is not to downplay the occurrences of people having their account hijacked, only to state the fact that it only impacts who it impacts. In the Sony case, that was every single user. I never said nor implied this isn't a Microsoft issue, nor did I say or imply they are infallible. The fact that I posted above that I was removing my expired credit card information would imply as much, wouldn't it? Because if I thought they were infallible, I wouldn't be taking that action. Now stop jacking off to any negative Microsoft news and go back to the Sony section. You guys only show up here when there's negative news on Microsoft and seem to get your jollies by trolling users on Neowin that have Xbox 360's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakey Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'm not spinning it in any way. I'm stating the facts. I guess you guys don't like facts anymore? It takes minutes to get charges removed from your credit card. That is a fact. Every reputable credit card company in the world has a system in place to take care of fraudulent charges. That is a fact. Charges that are removed from your account are no longer responsible for your payment. That is a fact. Ergo, the "real world" impact that these charges have on users amounts to the time lost having to call your credit card company and get the charges removed. That is a fact. If your credit card company doesn't have these services available to you, then you must use a credit card company I've never heard of. So, let me get this straight from you: your argument is that all that happened for users in the PSN hack was individuals had to call their credit card company and also weren't able to play online? So, let me ask you: how on earth is that any different from the situation at hand in this scenario? The only difference is the PSN hack impacted everyone. This impacts those who have had their accounts hijacked, from what we know. This is not to downplay the occurrences of people having their account hijacked, only to state the fact that it only impacts who it impacts. In the Sony case, that was every single user. I never said nor implied this isn't a Microsoft issue, nor did I say or imply they are infallible. The fact that I posted above that I was removing my expired credit card information would imply as much, wouldn't it? Because if I thought they were infallible, I wouldn't be taking that action. Now stop jacking off to any negative Microsoft news and go back to the Sony section. You guys only show up here when there's negative news on Microsoft and seem to get your jollies by trolling users on Neowin that have Xbox 360's. How is it worse.... PSN hack - person has $100 in their bank account, it stayed in their bank account 360 hack - person had $100 in their bank account, it was spent on FIFA dlc.... And no, it does not take minutes to get charges removed from a credit card transaction. You may want to learn how the real world works. First, when someone claims a company has made fraudulent charges, the bank must verify with the company as well that it was not some auto pay, renewal, or whatever that was actually allowed. The customer must also normally go , in person, to a physical bank. It takes days, weeks, and sometimes a month for certain transactions to be reversed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 How is it worse.... PSN hack - person has $100 in their bank account, it stayed in their bank account 360 hack - person had $100 in their bank account, it was spent on FIFA dlc.... And no, it does not take minutes to get charges removed from a credit card transaction. You may want to learn how the real world works. First, when someone claims a company has made fraudulent charges, the bank must verify with the company as well that it was not some auto pay, renewal, or whatever that was actually allowed. The customer must also normally go , in person, to a physical bank. It takes days, weeks, and sometimes a month for certain transactions to be reversed. http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Chargeback I am have a American Express credit card(this one). All it took me to revert a charge* was a 5min phone call. Stop spewing bull****. I use this same card on my XBL account. *I purchased something from India for delivery in India and it was not delivered for over a month(but I was charged the day I placed order). I called them and explained my case. I had the money back in my account the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkenshin Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Honestly people, create stronger passwords ... and NEVER link your checking account to an online service such as XBox. Give them a credit card number and just pay that monthly. That why if it gets compromised, its the banks money being used/stolen, not your own cash. Sadly, I learned this the hard way about 4 and a half years ago with my PayPal account that was part of that huge company compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I am have a American Express credit card(this one). All it took me to revert a charge* was a 5min phone call. Stop spewing bull****. I use this same card on my XBL account. *I purchased something from India for delivery in India and it was not delivered for over a month(but I was charged the day I placed order). I called them and explained my case. I had the money back in my account the next day. Don't bother responding to these clowns anymore. I'm not. If they want to start spreading some factually incorrect bull about how credit card companies work (let me repeat that: credit card companies; credit cards are not directly tied to your bank account -- they are a form of credit, hence the term "credit card"), let them. They get off on annoying people who actually own a 360. Don't give them the satisfaction. Honestly people, create stronger passwords ... and NEVER link your checking account to an online service such as XBox. Give them a credit card number and just pay that monthly. That why if it gets compromised, its the banks money being used/stolen, not your own cash. Sadly, I learned this the hard way about 4 and a half years ago with my PayPal account that was part of that huge company compromise. I agree with your suggestions of strong passwords, but Xbox Live accounts are linked to Microsoft Live IDs -- it's how they work. Also, it may not be related to password phishing but with some way of bypassing gamertag recovery (happened to an Xbox admin a few months ago via that method). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 And those that use bank DEBIT cards on the store? I can assure you not all accounts here in the UK come with fraud protection that payout first and do the enquiry later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotdot Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ever dealt with a situation similar to this? Because I have, and it is hardly a laborous process. Did you even read my posts?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Did you even read my posts?!?! Of course he didn't yours don't show through his Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Audioboxer Subscriber² Posted December 4, 2011 Subscriber² Share Posted December 4, 2011 Why doesn't he just read NeoGAF? Takes like 5-10 minutes to look through those 4 topics. Downright ignoring them when you want to discuss/understand the card refunding process for those affected is downright stupid. There's a difference between a purchase you can prove you made which was not delivered (especially with parcel tracking/signatures on delivery), and purchases made in your name (has to be proven it wasn't you - hence Microsoft "30 day" investigation) you claim you haven't made. Then there's the debit card issue - A lot of the UK use debit over Visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceelf Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 hmm claiming this is like the PSN hack is kinda like how lighting candles is like forest fires... yeah... I'd bet MS and EA will find some way to stop this, since it's obviously hurting both of them. I'd still guess crappy passwords that are never changed have something to do with it, too. So many people are clueless when it comes to online security and just assume it won't be an issue...until it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Did you even read my posts?!?! Sure did. Also read the posts from users who have had their accounts hijacked who had it taken care of in minutes. You should have called your credit card company instead of repeatedly calling Microsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Sure did. Also read the posts from users who have had their accounts hijacked who had it taken care of in minutes. You should have called your credit card company instead of repeatedly calling Microsoft. And people that have used bank DEBIT cards should do what? Contact their bank where it then goes to fraud department ans isn't immediately refunded until after the enquiry is resolved all whilst being out of pocket for longer than five minutes. Not everyone has credit cards in fact most teenagers don't. They just have bank accounts and debit cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 And people that have used bank DEBIT cards should do what? Contact their bank where it then goes to fraud department ans isn't immediately refunded until after the enquiry is resolved all whilst being out of pocket for longer than five minutes. Not everyone has credit cards in fact most teenagers don't. They just have bank accounts and debit cards. Yup, that's what they should do, quite obviously. Which is why you shouldn't use debit cards to begin with, as fraud is rampant in almost every situation (both online and in-person with skimming devices). That's the inherent liability of debit cards. Anyone who uses a debit card should be well aware of that liability before they obtain one and use it. We've had discussions pertaining to that on Neowin a million times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Do some reading, for someone acting so informed, you seem to know little Topic 1 Topic 2 Topic 3 Topic 4 Lots of people can't get refunds until MS finish their investigation, usually around 28 days (one month). Even a case of after the investigation MS say no http://www.neogaf.co...7&postcount=737 So no, it's not just because of one person on Neowin we say such things. There's tens of examples, if not hundreds in the topics above. from when did you turn a fan of ToS violation? which you were a big disapprover when it matters PSN? If that guy violated ToS, then why should anyone care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BajiRav Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Is this new? If yes, looks like MS is adding some protection (noticed while searching for transfer content license stuff). https://live.xbox.com/en-US/Profile/Protection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Yup, that's what they should do, quite obviously. Which is why you shouldn't use debit cards to begin with, as fraud is rampant in almost every situation (both online and in-person with skimming devices). That's the inherent liability of debit cards. Anyone who uses a debit card should be well aware of that liability before they obtain one and use it. We've had discussions pertaining to that on Neowin a million times. I'm not disagreeing that there is a risk to them, but you then have to realise that teenagers do use them and they will end up out of pocket for the time frame that it takes to be sorted. Good or bad, they still don't have their own money because of products bought fraudulently from the Microsoft store. Yup there are safer ways out there like buying point cards etc etc, but some people just like the convenience of a bank card. So whilst those using credit cards do have their money refunded swiftly with minimal fuss, that's not the case for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'm not disagreeing that there is a risk to them, but you then have to realise that teenagers do use them and they will end up out of pocket for the time frame that it takes to be sorted. Good or bad, they still don't have their own money because of products bought fraudulently from the Microsoft store. Yup there are safer ways out there like buying point cards etc etc, but some people just like the convenience of a bank card. So whilst those using credit cards do have their money refunded swiftly with minimal fuss, that's not the case for everyone. That's not Microsoft's fault, which is what you fail to realize. That's the inherent risk of how debit cards work, for better or worse. Microsoft can't change how the banking industry operates debit cards. Does it suck for those who choose to use debit cards? Yup, sure. Just like any form of debit card fraud does. I'm not entirely sure what you think I'm arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbandonedTrolley Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 That's not Microsoft's fault, which is what you fail to realize. That's the inherent risk of how debit cards work, for better or worse. Microsoft can't change how the banking industry operates debit cards. Does it suck for those who choose to use debit cards? Yup, sure. Just like any form of debit card fraud does. I'm not entirely sure what you think I'm arguing. You were claiming that everyone got their money back easily all I was doing was pointing out that it's not that way for everyone. Whether this hack/scam is done via the 360 or the web it is still something that is clearly linked to Microsoft and something they need to acknowledge and deal with. This is why I believe the current problem is worse than what happened to PSN as no one was actually out of pocket. Sucks either way though tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayepecks Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 You were claiming that everyone got their money back easily all I was doing was pointing out that it's not that way for everyone. Whether this hack/scam is done via the 360 or the web it is still something that is clearly linked to Microsoft and something they need to acknowledge and deal with. This is why I believe the current problem is worse than what happened to PSN as no one was actually out of pocket. Sucks either way though tbh. And you all were claiming it was a major hassle to get your money back. That's not true for the overwhelming majority of users. This is why I believe the PSN hack was worse as everyone faced having their data stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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